Larry Clark does not consider himself a photographer and he explains to Marc why he doesn't. But that didn't stop a young Marc Maron from being drawn to Larry's raw, unflinching photos and his uncompromising art. Larry talks with Marc about his photography, his experiences in war and in prison, his struggle to get clean, and his films Kids, Bully, Another Day in Paradise, and Wassup Rockers.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
All right. Let's do this, how are you at the fuckers what the fuck bodies, what the fucking years, what the fuck's yours, what the fuck a delicate what's happening,
mark man. This is my podcast w tia. Welcome to it pretty
citing for me today, oh by the way, I record
this yesterday's. I have not watch the debates. Yet there was a strange
and I don't know that works mac.
adequately but me
I should say that another way this this was recorded before whatever happened last night,
so I'll be taking that in with you in terms of what
Monday's news looks like I'll be I'll be taking.
And, as you do today, by
I got no comment on it because it has
happened yet when I recorded this boy,
today on the show,
excited to talk to Larry Clark, the photographer artist and filmmaker
because he looms large in the in the dark corners of the earth,
a graphic our world and also in film india he's either
dude he's the real deal hazy, the l a
photographer real artist, who did some pretty amazing works, be talking to him in a little while I enjoyed the film kids, which he directed in harmony green,
scripted, but I really love the film bully. I think
a raw visceral
stir piece of a movie, but also you know, Larry's books, teenage lost and the first book tulsa
which was a basically documentary photographs of him, not
not really him, but his friends tulsa
involved in
drugs hang out
shooting guns just
I'll, be in being the sort of
oklahoma criminals
they all were at that time. In the early seventies, wait sixties and the
This time I really came in touch with his work was when I was at boston university and I was very indifferent argovie. I thought that's what I
to do with my life. I was very, very pregnant,
for photographer in high school. I will dark room rat and I did
two photographs, and I and I really love doing it, but
start to realise that the technical side of it was not my bag, theirs
chemistry involved and to control that part of the art you needed
a lot of it required some
fermentation in some knowhow and some chemistry, and I it was not. I didn't like that part. I'd like I like, shooting and making
picture and watch
it come to life in the fixer
or in the developer. I like watching the image appear. I liked it.
focusing the in larger and seeing the negative in, but you had the terms than yet. When it comes down to mix mild chemicals figure now papers figured out a percentages of chemicals,
In fact, in all that stuff was in my bag. Just
yeah. I don't have the discipline
focus on that. I let it get away from me, but when
in college. I took a. I was a an artist
What is it a film criticism minor, which involved, which was part of the art history department and just by a fluke
took a history of photography class with a guy named Carl Corazza, who was also a photographer
was a b you for years, and it was within our history. Department was the history. Photography was a year long survey class
He started the first semester at the cave paintings
and he moved up and you have the second semester began at the introduction of photography, which I thought was a brilliant way to do. It changed my life that class, but during the second half of the class, were full
goofy yo sought to be established as an art form, which was difficult once everybody was able to take pictures and these two schools of thought
in my recollection of the class, were you had documentary photography and you had art photography, and these were the two contexts
under the umbrella of photography is art. Those are the two intentions: the two modes
and they crossed over. Obviously at some point. But there was
there was a long sort of discussion.
Is about whether you can manipulate the image or me
nippy await the negative and does it maintain its integrity? You can't do that with document
We thought it gradually. All these conversations, I imagine have been announced
waited now to some degree, given that digital photography and has almost completely
advocated here the process
and given everybody a certain amount of control over manipulation and all that, but I
I'm not in that circle, but
in those in the year in that survey classy, we were introduced to larry clarks tellson wary clarks teenage watson. I saw some of those images when I
go down to new york and
now you know, Larry's got a big big show, an expert,
of his work at the new uk artist space at six. Seventy south anderson street here in LOS angeles, it's up until october. Twenty ninth
I have not gone down there, yet I need to get down there because his work
he's very varied this
oh very raw, very am you can feel it
So let me just say this: the the now
here. This festival is less than three weeks away. Come hang out with me and my producer, Brenda mcdonald we're doing a special w p s
aunt on the saturday at the festival, but there are more than thirty podcast live all weekend.
The end, I October twenty eight through october thirtieth go to now here this best dot com and use,
offer code w e F to get twenty five percent off a three day. General admission pass. That's now hear this,
dot com offer code. W e f even go to a deputy ipod that combat
to get the any of the last few tickets for carnegie hall and I've got Chicago come.
up and santa Barbara
you, I see at santa
Campbell, how it's all there: pod dot com, nashville
tallahassee, there's a lot of dates coming up all the dates in connecticut, upstate new york next year
but they're they're, all available deputy ipod dot com
did I want share that email.
Yeah here it is a subject like miles Davis jack.
in dear mark as a loyal listener, I rarely miss an episode, but this week I realized. I skipped your labour day conversation with Joseph arthur, I'm so glad I went back and listened because, in the part of
discussion about miles Davis
ginger love for jack Johnson, which is an album which is indeed-
the soundtrack for a documentary about the first black heavyweight champion of the world which my father Larry.
Geringer directed album, pronounced in that right geringer. It's right, guaranteed,
I called him up to let him know, and he gave me all the details. It was nineteen. Seventy, my dad was a student colombia. Film school in the documentary was his thesis project, the produce
We worked for later stole director credit, but my dad still got credit at columbia. Show business
you already enlisted. The great actor brok peters to narrate the film, but he wanted miles is trumpet to provide
version of johnson's voice sea like that already jazz, thinkings, beautiful
first recording sash miles in his band came into the studio. My dad ran his movie and miles just played reacting in real time to what he was seeing on screen later, additional cuts from the
passions were added to augment the initial recording, which is how that five dispersion of the complete sessions that you own came to be it's one of miles is
overlooked, albums, but a great one in your mentioning it put it,
smile on my father's face and mine by the
The documentary went on to be nominated for an academy award but lost to a little movie. You might have heard of golf woodstock
again for the mention and let this be a reminder to all your listeners to never skipping episode. Ah, Alex
geringer, I'm open, I'm saying a right thanks,
love that email body- and I love that record and
now. I gotta see that documentary larry clark in this
precision. I think what is what stands out outside of mean
being able to get a wording is your his committee
to the craft and what it means
to be a printer and what it meant to do. You have
roll over that element and what it meant to live in your art. I mean a lot
People have a lot of feelings about about larry's, film work, certainly, and I think even less people know about his photography work, but the self publishing of the
and the book being an object of art in and of itself. I mean I just
I moved in any sort of astounded went in when I talk to real artists, who were possessed with that spirit of of care
aiding ard, and sometimes you can't reach,
it is adding exactly in the moment. But the more you is in a very you realize that yeah his his vision,
and his compulsion, your outside of drugs was was
art and living within it.
So this is me and the photographer filmmaker artist,
clark here in the garage
yeah.
the
so very clark.
los angeles, what a pretty comfortable out
yeah. You know. I've made a number of films. Hurried
wassup, rockers here, yeah by the kids from south central l, a another day in Paradise in Paradise? Can park the first time. I heard a view I always taken.
I took a year long survey of photography at boston universe.
Yeah and you have for some reason the guy spent the entire first semester, starting at the cave paintings and moving up till the introduction of photography.
and then we got into your differently.
Document during our photography- and that was the first time I saw the images from tulsa.
And the the you know the other book. The teenage wow experience last year right second book right, but you were shooting because I'm working at the catalog for the show that opens here now laced in what galleries data of the gallery at is at
t a outer space
in l a and, and you got there are images in their back that go back way before even tulsa. Go back are the first images of the first serious images I ever took,
the cobbler of pictures from nineteen sixty one and white. How old are you
I was born in forty three, so in sixty one I was what nineteen, where are you grew up
in all home. I grew up and tells us lama, and
My golden life was again lama
So when I was eighteen, while my
and my mother and father has mom and pop, maybe photography, business really photographing baby. I write and my mother was graded, photographing babies right here and what will shrink the trick was
she was just great
as rapporteur. I am wary of toy with everything, everything everything you know she knew every every trick in the book
a process on their own? Well,
happened was my my father, the travelling salesmen right in this. How I met my mother? What is selling books?
what a door magazine scriptures china for the readers
press bureau in chicago and like back then
father was a manager and he would go around the country from town to town and higher crews of young people,
to go knock on doors,
and sell these magazine scriptures
and people by the magazine subscriptions and anyway, that's that's how they live
It was very, very big back in the fifties when you were in tulsa, where you like. Were you reading the beatniks? Were you looking for that kind of life when I was in tulsa? I didn't know
nothing
Where did you learn how to shoot at your mom's place, my mother and my father, as I said when he came back when I was twelve in my mother and he got a job
just why selling furniture and then I think, selling cars here for a year and my mother took a job with lloyd, robys, routine
professor, who did
river target right, and they
some door to door photography where you go under these small town, yeah and
on noise. It, Sir
a photographer, a collar the collar
so noise here and us.
Is. Oh, you have a new baby. I think her name is Deborah. Could I see her please yeah and the husbands who I working in the call it talks his way:
into the house right and then the photographer my mother goes
and make photographs, and she had a roller flax with a flash on it and then, like us,
green, like a little movies, gonna pull down cn, they saw a cause of thought blanket.
Recovery table, put the baby on it and have the mother standing at the edge of the table. Writers had a camera range and said the maybe up and said
in matrimonial avenues out a picture before the baby fell by regret the mother would address, and then there was
second just job a slave unit pointed at the background with job.
love when the when my mother took the picture with the flash and neroli yeah and it washed out all the shadow right. So you got this. It looks like a studio portrait photography, and so when I was fifteen, I was forced into the business
I was knocking on doors, my mother and making call here and then when I was sixteen almost sixteen
started making of doing baby photography and driving around with his collar frank spargo, who was quite a characteristics?
and everything your real. I will
we're on our housework and but a great guy,
the alarm in the whole linger yea, and so I was like fifteen is
Annie and a real light. Bloomer and I started.
I can hardly talk and I hated myself
and I had to go, knock on diversion and taught my way in and then they had to go
and in the end, have be the photographer and makes the baby's laughed and said the baby on the conflict. I like it and put down.
also in my head and they fall out and I'd go oh and make the baby laughing
the picture man
hey. I hated what I was doing. I wish for
in the working for my parents in a moment,
business? You aren't areas a mayor videographer, but
Karen my ear, I didn't,
sure, because this is a a into flash of flash it right and I never thought photography was anything but photograph
maybe I don't know anything, but I
we had a camera, always had a camera, in my hand,
If I didn't have a camera, because I would go to my friend's house after after work,
and shoot amphetamine here and when you are my fifteen and almost sixteen, so I shot
amphetamine every day for three years and I graduated from high school when I was eighteen
and I knew I had to get a tall sir, who started the shooting ikea like winded, that like when did it go from like taken bends, drained it to shoot? No wonder that, because after the war here were war, too
where they give all the soldiers speed amphetamine.
after the war-
so making this nasal halo called bailout and it was made by the five or a company which is a famous governing anaemic, niagara, visor, Yeah hundred defies area. And
I made this little nasal inhaler called veilleux for seventy five cents right and you opened it up and it was a plastic tube inside you stuck it up your nose
third of your scientists rivals followed amphetamine, so some
discovered that some ex cons are somebody's. You know older brother right and, and are you would twist off? The top of me I could open and inside was a piece of cotton.
Menthol in other shed, random and amphetamine, and we would put the cotton
and copper, something and I drop her food, water and workers.
and the would float to the top and the grief.
pure amphetamine made from menthol me up and we would shoot
in a jacket. The other men following your veins- and you would get this incredible russian- this incredible flash here and some people would das across the room. Again, we were with this
in their mouth and like fall backwards on the bed- and I you know all different kinds of reactions, but I was just hyper kid that stuttered, like mad mia- and I had like I I I mean I- must have had a terrible and a d d right right, but then no one knew what that was so mad that I mean calm. You down to kinda amphetamine made me not like my friends, totally calm
I went from this hyperactive who couldn't are right to this? Most common
person in the world and
and I started photographing my friends when I was eighteen left
Oklahoma. Luckily wait I shot dead when you left at you shot tulsa. Meanwhile,
not only I'd I'd. I'd taken a few pictures of my friends
where's my mother's roller flags and you'll, see two of those pictures in the show. My first too serious
yes, because I always had my power
So I was it a secret well because it was busby, drugs back their eyes and eisenhower
president. It was supposed to be moms
papa pie and wiping his fetches. There was no drugs have alcohol, there was no child abuse
There was a mother and father the alcohol extra organics
There were no is nothing new about it. That point. You already come in contact with it with a few housewares and you knew there was a rational man. I knew everything you know and I was hip to remember and knew there was a box station
I am also gaining frank- bury- would come on the radio,
like eleven o'clock at night,
play muddy waters, halley worth any real. You know lightning slam year, everything
When I was
twelve years, all unlike under the covers at night with a radio. Listen,
enjoy all this music man and his folly along this music. So I was here
like rowan and blows along you. There is in our rural guy ass, you now and
when I was about twelve. I read this
book by louis Armstrong. Sacho might be a witch
his first autobiography
written. You know, like fifty sixty years ago,
sixty years ago, I got the end
and I read it
and it was all about him growing up like a new orleans and like a red light district yeah and like a black woman chasing black men down
three with a razor slice, an incisive amelia hands up, and I was fascinated
This is a new. There was another world out there and that book just changed my life
the by lorry Armstrong man, where do you go in your eighteen, so as so anyway, so luckily
my mother, be as was ambitious,
and there was this association, call the professional fatigue
rose of america. The p p a p away and it was
all these corny portrait photographers. They had these points,
if studios where families occurs, would come in now
pictures of human rights
see every line of their face and then hand colored them all of the hand. Colored yeah yeah, and you see some of them now even like the old pictures, will be posted, whereas some
girl in high school, all dressed up in retesting, colored, gallina rifle right, you're, the rosy faces the idea and salvation
so they're gerhard barker again
turkey was the Milwaukee came through tat gave the shock.
he was a really charismatic guy here
and he had this school and no milwaukee,
so
total amanda hate it. It was a bit ivory, scalia commercial corn, ball here of a diary school in the basement of an art school and the high school tolerated it because it made brought brought money into the school yeah so
they sent me to this girl thanking and I was gonna come back
take over the family, business right and so our abilities. I was already like a gigantic and was hip to the music.
looking wade ensuring every drug because
at the time I was eighteen years I had set for three years,
So my nineteen signal this is like fifty
Fifty eight sixty was out to Milwaukee and- and I had to Milwaukee to this con ball of her diarrhoea with always call needle soon's
garrard barker was was this ep teacher,
and so I started hanging out immediately with a large scale suit right with the sculpture.
An painters and
My first and my first girlfriend
in Milwaukee, my first real girlfriend ever
a real dolphin,
This girl named shirley louis, was a painter.
And then change your life.
my life and I have another girlfriend. At the same time they didn't
now about each other car. Chris outfit leah, passed away now with the council, unfortunately
the very good painter,
are you still swam and speed at this point only
The ties because our original in and I want to get away from animals right
Then they quit making very low,
and my friends in tells had grown
to agree in their criminal
well and they already were, but I mean like we all were but dope and they went on to do at the penitentiary and all that
became prostitutes really end. They question
making a very long and an unfathomable available for a few years
and then
the dream head. He asked his auction, which was pure amphetamine on these little yellow pills, that you could soakin model
russia. Now then pull up a shot.
Macedonia does anyone hull and all all of his people were taking the back in the sixties, crises,
sixty eight about lying there, and so that was all over the place and it was a farmers
Nicole you had to get up. If you have him from a doctor right right, sire
ass I got him a walkie hang out with all the painters, a sculptor, yes and in all my friends, repairs
sculptors and room with a friend, great painter, genk housekeeper.
so I realise the idea that I can't
with something that you could use other than to make these very picturesque, and it never occurred to me right. I can use my camera as a tool for me
express your right as an artist did you had you seen like. Did the teacher show you like the americans or any of that stuff, dorothea lange? Did you or you get taken any of that in no? No, no and I learned but every western, Adam yeah, and luckily I
There was one of those sooner than ever. That was happy and he showed me
walker, Evans right who is,
favorite of of all time, I can see a coup antlers robert frank and everybody right.
What an amateur human human dorothea did the dust bowl shot right and in working time is ever to determine whether such right so eyes.
Dorothy, aligns pictures nice all the veto.
If is there
for the government, because Roosevelt's out of this programme I said photographer
doubt around america to photograph there's only one voice on dustbowl. What was the ones before that, like Sullivan, was as navy did the indian photographs of big indian propaganda. His name was celebrated as a famous name, but I'm like yeah me too, but he worked for the government. I think right anyway, yeah it'll come a he'd, be a great photographer, photographed all the indian here he photographs,
geronimo. All those people write a great.
Votes
and yet a bigger bosh camera. Untried podgy. I gather was making like I ate
ten photographs are for by five or something big plates, big big play,
and so you are that saves. I'm lucky that, and I have seen Robert frank but
I had seen
photographs by rapid frank, imitators town of my right, so I saw
Couple of those allies,
w eugene smith
who worked for life magazine right back then like magazine
great photographers working by them and ryan, courageous joys
and I, like you, I like a J smith the best here
and he worked for life and he
What do these assignments in here we go out and spend a month or two or three photograph
feel as something some people and he
the famous series call the country doktor
and he did one about that now. He did one great went about a black nurse in the south document
like it. I am a midwife documentary saw, but he was this great.
Dramatic printer where he printed dark in that he brought up
the high lies in the faces
ferris cyanide, which was a bleach. Did you learn how to apply milwaukee in Milwaukee? Well, I did for two years in school was all I did was practice and take pictures. I took more pictures by the thousand,
than anybody else in the climax you got the vision that you asked bryce yours, I mixed all my own chemicals. I learned how to mix them developer
everything and I make no my chemicals. I tried out every kind of found known to man. Would you land you try ex yeah? I accept four hundred. Yes, we have as its the fastest film married,
wide right, grainy up
to box from.
School, the article was witches and there anymore
school of thought it was called alleyway theo in nature
down
an animal is on on the drive and the like was behind this beautiful, beautiful
way ahead of its time: contemporary building yeah. They tore down because
put a highway through it that never happened rise, yes of his torn, never nothing tat. I was a bit of a belgian but to blush
The building was this
movie theater and they showed movies,
We're home I'd. I'd only see like John wayne movies is archives and endorse the john for I write and I'd never seen a foreign film in my life, but they
showed all these foreign firms. I added one day when I was eighteen, we're and
went back for two years as are every found they showed, and I saw all
Furthermore, the hull of ago dar es ruffolo right, all everybody, all the french, your great otter, eyes or hand.
and then- and I use sixty two- there was a
machine by edison shadows near and I went in and it was John cassavetes first fell right in black and white.
and there was and there's never been anything like it. Nothing and never met a film made like it in a ever in the history of cinema and I shot in sixty two when they
amount in this. I fear
a big screenwriter on his green right and added
changed. My life canterbury changed my life because I walk
and I said, shit man, someone
cs the way I get somebody else
the way I see ended.
our dated the way
I saw right and I went back to Oklahoma and by them did it plant the seed that you are going to. Maybe do film at some point cause I always wanted to make films. I always wanted to be a storyteller. I always wanted to be a writer yeah. I always wanted to be a filmmaker. I always wanted to be a sculptor always wanted to
a painter. I'd be anything but a photographer, but I had a camera. It was
till I had so. I guess I save my money. I bought a thirty five millimetre
camera cod.
No, no, no, not, and not a reflex camera here where the merest crash together right, sound
but about a little like it s, p return, which was arraigned, find a camera here and you have you don't look through the limbs
follow us rectangular
a little rectangular on the side which,
as I calibrated to see through the lens, but you're not looking at the lens right, and so when you click the shutter, it's various islands yeah. You know it hardly makes any noise at all, and so I went back to tulsa answer
and I couldn't afford liker yeah which
also arranged found a camera extremely quietness, barely the click of here
and I started a photograph. My friends,
as you know, sir, which was a secret world and have always one the kids
They are you, they were company and they were so comfortable that
if I didn't, have my camera, when I walk in they'd, they say Larry where's your camera,
We're radio goes on your part of right yeah. You know it was,
part of me, so they knew me with a camera,
and if it wasn't. I camera hanging from my shoulder for my early days with my mother's all like after work.
It was unusual I looked naked or someone where's, your counselor, and so I started forget her, my friends in this
the world,
that nobody else could have possibly coming in right and done except someone from the inside. Like me, I was just one of the guys,
and and there are no plans ever- shall these photographs to anybody. There was never any plans to do a book. Those ever
the plans for anything I was just practicing.
Right in these guys. At that time they were, they were shooting up speed, one guy shot himself. I think right was there to seventy one year. I so in these are in your just. They are taking pictures. This is their life. This is that of our self. By accident. I want exactly reading was incoming suicide of it, since this was my life and my life
you gonna you'd, had a break from it,
in a way that we like. So
so it's my life
one the guys and the azores.
Casual about. Man is one of the guys, except
I had been away and full of art and
Gotta headphones are vs or, as I'm there may
sylvia and interact with my friends
naturally
at the same time, I'm up here
corner another may lie
in down and seen the scene.
That I'm in some sign,
We have in my friends very
as we were in very small rooms and fifty millimeter limbs nasa
I'm like a foot from him to feed problem is very small, very tight base, my camera so quiet
after a couple of minutes, you never heard of any more rigid and accurate report we issued now then too. Of course yeah, of course,
and so everybody's all jacked up. Yes, so- and this is all early
that it was, you may call speed. Then it was amphetamine. It became a spade and six later in the sixties, sixty seven
method, dream started your sudanese and sixty three sixty four. Now sixty two and sixty three: that's when tell so, we shall use users exceed three, and that was that there was no, where no one knows where no one knew about it, right and, and so then,
I went away
and go to new york right when he met in new york city with food, and I got a job
such a great dark room in a great printer yeah and knew everything backwards and forwards care about chemistry, and yet our european all this stuff, because all I
for two years, was work year was work
and I ve gone through gone to a few schools. I'm I'm not a good teacher, but
I've gone to a number of girls through the years
as a guess. Baker right- and I see these kids there-
I'm going do like four years of a diary school in college, yes and no
daddy's dime writer and just
around a new our hand in hand, and I'd tell I would say: look man, you can win photography and six.
you: don't need to be banned. This girl, you're wasting your time. You're wasting your time.
as many as you want.
really wanna be a photographer. Quit
school and got into my father ground is no reason for them to know about chemicals anyway. There's no reason for those about anything, except you make the photographs from your own personal vision, right and so
I wish I was invited back to very many schools, can't talk right so and so, when you got to new york, he got a gig in a lab. So when I got to new york, I got
job with a big commercial photographer who
who who worked with this designer fame
desire. George law is here
I call fisher did all the cameras for esquire right, Barbara streisand and John Updike. Are you going on the shoots everybody while the shoes were when the studio- and I was there right- and I remember John sweet, printing or what I was? I was so dark room right you were at. I was. I was this twenty year old kid who was the darker eye and I knew more than anybody else right and I,
you got the dark room,
car would want to prevent right at an end. I would prevent the white I wanted to produce a better way in may and a bit of a prince,
an and he will freak out and say: that's not. Do I ask you to do it and I said it's better man. Trust me. I know what I'm doing, and so he would go talk to the
to the manager that hired me dwayne downpour. I shall here and,
but they wouldn't fire me. They fire me, because I was just good a printer man here and so after a year.
My mother call me
I
and I never in my life call my mother mommy. Now never ever mile my called her mommy
and
phone rang. It was for me and car bizarre endow reserve and some others studios it was there.
And she Tom had been drafted
that they got in. The latter should because this is like sixty four.
Was not vietnam,
no war
I
Johnson hadn't since the first fifteen thousand troops, were I vietnam, over the so called a gulf of tongue tongue.
I answer that so called inherent right, right,
so
added and nobody I tried to get out of the draft. You know and the only way you can get out of the draft, and a couple of
well in new york, did it
I
goin in ready address near
Otherwise there is no way to get out. You were drafted, no matter what you told me redrafted. Unless you went,
where an address in full make up and everything that and a couple. Anyone answer is new york city. There were a couple
some of them up
guys I did this rise or even an address in leipzig, grandma gelban arise and went to the draft right, which was so far out in sixty four management and
an and the army, just amazing said: go home to them where you buy the, because there was in a war outside of the lack of choice. Were you frightened or what? No? I was just part of life, everybody. When the army for two years I was drafted so where'd. You go wait. If you joined it was three years but fuck I didn't join me. I was drafted two years like everybody else.
In terms of a fort gordon,
Georgia for basic terrible
hell hole
and halfway through basic training
deals how'd you walked in one morning and said: are you
ready to go, kill the com is vietnam, and we and have was vietnam, because there that
that day, president Johnson had sent the first fifty thousand troops there. Already
vietnam,
an we didn't know it. Vietnam was and so on,
I spent my first year in the army in the south. I was in for
Virginia,
and then I was in virginia beach near ah, and I was the most fucked up soldier. I was always getting busted and I was always like a private. He won by what,
it's been busted for whatever you can imagine talking back to the sideline man, you know,
every rule I could break. I broke right. Yeah I got caught. Marshall wants what I want: a wall yeah and cause I'd, be because I'd gotten leave to go visit, and I wanted to visit my girlfriend in new york and
say you know for a couple of weeks
and then I went back and they threw men and in the brig and then it was
like a real court. Martial, it was just said- was collars someway chrome on it, so I had to
see the
the head of unit, the major who sent me the captain who had gone to Coronel yeah,
and he sent me you think you're pretty smart, don't you!
No, he said I graduated from Coronel, I laughed at him and so on.
That's me down to private anyone and took my pay for six
so. I didn't get my night I'll check a month wherever it was. I had no money and
premier like a kitchen details. I had to pill potatoes and scrubbed parts for a few months
and then he transfer me out out of the unit
two I was in a unit. Oh, why couldn't a photographer and ralph, but but
interest me or that you didn't want anything to do with me, add to a transportation unit.
transportation unit
It was a unit where they offloaded trucks and ships and stuff, and it was ninety percent black,
and it was all like hard labor and we were out working on the railroad and in virginia, and I, with you know, with pick axes and almost like prison.
Yeah and, but I was
alright and and the one thing I realized in basic training,
Was there that never known before
that in basic train of all these guys and basic training.
smarter than all of em, because
seven million over eighteen,
straight out of the out of hours out of their home and they were like mama's boys as though anything you know, and they were like you know, didn't know nothing right
oh by chance that the company clerk had
measured out the army. His time was up right
So they needed needed, like like a company clark
and
When I got a basic, I had volunteered what you never bound here. The rural is never dared, but there was a typing class
I am and jewels. How did we weren't formation that attention of it came out of it? I need a volunteer for typing last year and I raised my attitude. May may me, so is it ok?
so I got to go to typing, has every afternoon for six weeks or something, and I learned
to be a great type ass. I typewriter I I could speak type. I andrew like a hunter
words a minute or something. I was really good, sir,
even though I was a privately one industry.
detention units
They need to accompany carcasses. I should type could type so well,
maybe company clerk. So now I'm in the catches office,
right now, dry clark and I'm the captain's man right and everything that comes in the orders at all information and allow the correspondence I'm tired.
It'll, be in the company. Clark nodded the cornell guy. The cat was not another different, different guy, as, as a matter of fact, he wasn't. A captain in the second year was a major yeah and- and I got along with him, but
I didn't get her cousin, average shaggy and and my
form. It was felt to be ideal, oppressed, and yet I know that
I would just like my uniform and throw it in the laundry into the dryer and put it on all wrinkled and go in the captain's office. I mean the majors and I would- and I was the company clerk and typing- and I was so good
that they couldn't really get ready to make those nobody else qualified, but the first chance he got
I've been the south for one year. He sent me to vietnam.
Signed, or is this a mini vietnam so my
Second year in the army I spent in vietnam,
as I in vietnam all over ninety sixty six thousand south of sixty five
and in vietnam, all nineteen sixty six thousand vietnam. Early
and I must it out
an outline california
december,
ninety six member way, and this is two years before the first head offensive. So you can see-
you I didn't, I didn't see any any-
real action. I got shot it a few times bigger.
Through every interpretation is right. We used to take them out up to the soldiers in the jungle.
back then, if you saw like ourselves,
film latour, they use it.
The soldiers up into the jungle weigh up north and northern vietnam
drop him in the jungle and they would fight
and I was stationed in tournois, which later
became like a fire in place to budget, but it was fairly safe. When I was,
because all the failure was done up in the jungle
the war has expanded, get at it had an expanded just so, but I would see these truckloads of soldiers
back from the jungle ya, like a truck open track with both sides, the soldiers setting
like thirty soldier yeah and everyone was like staring blankly ahead: men,
I never said anything like I'll. Never forget the image of these soldiers coming back man from the jungle fighting in the jungle now camera, though huh yeah. No, no! No! No! I I I! I had a calling but very few pictures
when I was in the army, a few few government budgets
larger, when I vietnam, what I did was
marked a weed and drank warm bear every evening
and, as I say, the universe, irish black here, an eighty nine point: nine percent of them had never smug partner life, nobody small pie, you and I
I would like going to the small village, and I also have to reward and cop, like up a small pillar case followed.
Most potent marijuana. You've ever smoked in your life are back then hiya for like ten bucks right here and I and I bring it back, and I turned on all all my friends in this unit- life changing oh yeah yeah, so like so like one year later, when I mustered out
Ninety nine percent of the squad smoked, wait right, you know and we would like some sand at night.
I like drinking warm beer really like hot, warm, hot, warm or embarrassed smoking pot. Getting so fucked up
that one night I was walking back my tent
and I passed out, face first in the sand, and I will,
you know, like five o clock in the morning still past outface. First in the sand,
reset my nose in my eyes on my mouth
and you know where I was and then I welcome eleven o. I was
I tried to wash the sand out of my eyes and nose and mouth here and I went into my ten and slept another hour, but that's how strong the shit was. So there was no dope around. Yet there was no
I went into the village
found found an opium then right and out of him then, and the chair of the chief of police of this village came in.
I said hello and watched me
and are the opium a dead guy was
stray elegant. Then this little
skinny vietnamese
skinny skin and bounds where,
like a loincloth,
and on the floor was a strong mad.
and a wooden pillow, and it was-
he's a wood. Where do I go
hallo loud that was so smooth because
having been there for a hundred years and about a thousand heads laid on it right and actually a piece of wood was smooth and council,
because someone-
People had laid on their side on smoking opium right. So myself,
he had the the beggar hookah their attic three heads of opium.
That's enough! No more
and now the cheaper places watching me laughing- and maybe I, like you know an owl dobrynin are you know like in your fucking head
as alone, I want more J, edgar gub, more hits against this guy
guys and not another and so on.
back in my unit heizer guide and elaborate sick as a dog for three days, man throwing up
died for three days
cause. I o data on that strong and I should have stopped at two or three heads, but then I took five or six, you know and not realize what I was doing, cause I'd, never smoked
before and a man I was so sick for three days will never forget the zone of cigarette. My like that
it was exempt kicking heroin. Many years later I resent at yeah.
But that was my vietnam experience, and so I came back
I was lucky because can because
We will get shot at every followed up. The river right north is to bring the ammo
two years later after telephones evaluate areas around maybe a killing people
killed? And then the government
There was no heroin in vietnam. When I was there, I guarantee you. If there was, I would have found it. Yeah in other was opium dens.
we in the villages and we'd there was just fantastic by then
after? I left? The government
the government of vietnam
started bringing in heroin and soon to to the american tubes because they
kathy body is right there and then
after that, thousands.
thousands and thousands of soldiers came back to mustard out
I of the army from vietnam, with
incredible, led high dope have as heroin habits write me up as they can
to america and started shooting heroin in america.
and then have a lot of trouble, how you gonna kick in it, but that was
the government
vietnam getting heroin ends,
send it to the droop right in and they make in may as a dollar night right, nay, strung out there, the whole fucking, contrary and so was so corrupt men, so corrupt.
then, and so, when you get back to you go back to new york and when I got I mustered allowed in December,
You seven and san francisco, luckily
and the next stage of my first had of acid with some friends
it was a whole different world than now as a whole. If a worldwide and I'm going to vietnam reading life magazine,
seeing the happy movement, starting with
with long here and I couldn't wait to get out and get back Macedonia and like a dylan's record of everybody must get stone was planned and radio vietnam. You know you know end because you know we're gonna, radio and yeah sure, and I couldn't wait to get back so I got back.
Merely so grand my hair and growing a mustache end up
doing echelon smoking weed and during
rejoice, could do when your relationship with the heroin start
that, you know
and I was in frisco for a few months. San Francisco gives me san francisco
I know the hey I hate we are calling for is go so this emphasis go for,
a few months, and then
back to new york
and I was doing all the drugs
a parity and everything and lsd, and back then, for just about five months at the mac six months. The very max.
They had tac legally
pill form
legal. Yet I was like a prescription drugs right and for about six months it was legal and you could get like pure thc pills
and take him and man? It was the greatest most pleasant. Ha
in the whole world. Just so much fun you
so happy and laughing, and just
I did. I've never had again. There was that great and pleasant
and in the government's snapped, and then the log in here
How is the acid
As you know, the ass an early agreed to bear with me so much. I had two or three trips: thou wilt, thou lemme grey
I saw god and everything you know anyway, and then I took two I had to
bad trips in a row. Yeah horribly bad acid trips. Awful,
for man and man and ass. It again now, when you so
the wind. How does tulsa happen is a book you back from vietnam and back from vietnam and sixty eight
I go back to tulsa. Most everybody
in jail, and then I went back and sixty eight
and
I read it all sixty moment. A movie camera nea fell, my friends
by man was like battened down. His daddy died. Ninety seven news: why the two too
characters in the book. It starts when, where kids and it ends with
young, kids, the next generation for yahoo, six in your kids. So like a circle I was, I was saying,
this- goes on non added so drawing on. If you go back to tulsa now
more method drain and tells there ever was, in my whole life and tar and end of the whole country, those methods we now and they make it. How did you like you know?
got through vietnam. We got through the photos and we talked a bit about the opening. But what was your delivering
into the world of fine art. I mean how did tulsa give made into a book. How did that become? As you know, this notorious an important documentary photography.
Well, what what happened was
then all oliver its wanted
to have a book of their work right. You only a few places ebbed published.
are your book and it was very, very hard to get your book published
and especially, if you want your book to me,
You want your book to be big
they would want an editor to your book.
You can imagine that if an editor at touch tulsa would have happened. Why don't I got naked and I got Dixon I get everything that was
happening in the book guns, drugs and dig yeah, and so my friend ralph gibson.
HU, I matters a great photographer, very well known photographer, a real fast,
we offer I'm not a real photographer he's a real for me. I will
Your are for love, photography and photographs every day of their life and
but they do right and
the real photographers or ralph gibson Lee freed landed,
Gary winograd was ipo past you. I was a real photographer thousands of photographers
Would you consider yourself an artist? Ok,
I had a camera, is a tool right because always going to be anything but of a diver. So
and I always wanted to make films and I always wanted to be a sculptor. A painter saw in sixth sixty
You could not get your book published right so
so I've had a very personal book they wanted published. They
wait completely himself. I call
Some nebulous here and
and he couldn't get a publisher and finally aperture.
Peter banal? Foma bone well paid a banal who
hu an average you're very area agreed to,
measure rouse book yeah. But why
They come over to every everyone's unite and as with them, and and and
in russia. Norway right is a very personal book
ralph me in very smart, very intelligent guy,
one of the smartest men that I that that I've ever met just natural. You know how do I decide to self publish his book, which had never been done, and so he actually printed up
These stocks, he went to his his typewriter and printed up. These stocks here had imprinted
and went around your friends and rich people that he met it actually seldom enough stocks for him
book and raise three thousand dollars and flew out to california
because then they were all these printing companies
printed for the aerospace industry is, and that is a sob. So so they were hungry for business. So you can get a book published
for three thousand dollars and get three thousand copies, and in California
of the ten percent law, where the printer good abbe timber sent over a timber sit under. So of course,
You got three thousand copies. Of course you got exactly twenty seven copies, but always just
that leads embers under right, legal out yet sour
Sir Ralph. Further the sun reminiscing choice, abandon copies and self publish said and just
the answer, I gotta think about a press, so he put lust, impress on it and so does somnambulists ralph gibson spine.
and on the cover it just says, I don't think it has. It doesn't say anything or the coverage is photograph on the sizes of an ambulance
So here is my body. I wanted to print tulsa.
So I laid out the book
put your laid out the book from sixty to sixty eight right
and they were magic
also with my dummy,
and to finish the book
knowing exactly what was missing from the scene, knowing exact
What photographs I needed
I didn't have the of thanks.
happening here and I didn't know when they will happen where they will happen, how they would happen, but I knew I was
be there when they happen? So our magazine,
you osama by two else's. Seventy one and
started fiery. That method dream.
the goods that matters of disasters may appear for peer pharmaceutical method, data,
the pill, little plastic pelagia trash,
here and then draw at with a puppet, apparently half an hour, drop our water and drop the method raining
and in fact right here and asylum back and just jump back into my life and
photographs? Seventy one and seventy one and finish the book in the second half of the book is all
seventy one and all his father wrath.
Were made within the three or four month period, because I knew of his machine. I knew the sane and
once I had all the photographs
from the assembly. One arab
to a new york and
printed, the seventy one photographs in the dark room, I ralph jargon
happened
to be irrelevant, met Robert frank and robert,
I had given Ralph his old eye enlarger. It was like an omega diet to get out of here. This are larger, so the seven ambulances in tulsa were printed or the other. Seventy one pictures from tulsa-
were printed on our robert francs old mega, led to enlargement and gives a dark room so that might have been the enlarger used to make the americans
possibly I guess probably because you know cause I was thinking about it and I never thought about it until today that tulsa on some level, even though there were you know, maybe you have over a decade
part is the next
of the americans in some weird way. There's a continuity to
Well, the americas was light, fifties and tells it was seventy right. So there was more than a decade but yeah the area.
So the erika, the americas,
photography, I ever hear and toss a change. The aggregate of reverence right I printed book, allowed the book exactly as you
as you see it today, you have that great quote and at once the needle goes in. It never comes out yeah, and that was from billy man, and he said that million man said that to me in sixty eight and
forget it so I think, is under his photograph. So I principle
ralph comes back from europe. Less me crash with his couch for the admin
one night. Danny seema comes over because
see my has this book
allowed song, which was his like
it's diary,
that he made in he wanted published an
he came over to ask
ralph to public
form right to go to college,
and publish it form their ivory thousand bucks. The way he did down the analysed.
and ralph has a second book that he wanted to publish whole days at sea and us
photographer named neil flame and had a book called Paul
you go
that he wanted to publish self publishing me out. Ralph agreed to do that, but less impress on
and he agreed to do. Daddy's welcome, put less impress on it.
danny came over I'd, never
daddy my life and he walked up to me
and said I am danny
Robert tell me that you have these photographs. Others should be,
and- and I want to pay the published a book just like that-
and so ralph danny and I flew out to kill
finally it together
danny, was shooting heroin.
And I was doing cocaine like crazy.
and and so Ralph
danny and I went to to the printers and we
where did the loud song tulsa and no five in Portugal, and so we pointed out free books together here
came back for an, and I got exactly twenty seven hundred cubic rawhide repaid reveal that the ten percent law,
and he gets ways have been caught hundred copies of the loud song and now
Simon got number twenty, seven and Portugal,
So the first edition is a paper back inside.
Is it photocopies copies in that's? Why now you go on Ebay and itself? Four thousand.
sometimes a good cherry copy, and I have actually have to copies
I have one cherry copy and then
one copy, still the shrink rap here it was published in seventy. One ralph gives a less impress all yet this there was
less impress allison theirs.
washington press was for photography books out there on the shelves and tulsa
was an immediate cessation man, I mean that review
were alan common in
his voice, a great photography critic who worked for the new york times after the village voice. This book Larry tough
comes out of nowhere. Yellow is so too
is too good to be believed. That was
started. The review you know
Like this array of review and the new york,
I gave her baby wow here, and everybody gave a review
sold out within months right. What about teenage last wanted that first come out so teenage? Thus was published, I shall publish that myself and in eighty three eighty
for when we're the images taken that immeasurable were tagging through my whole life. It was kind of a scrap book style book
of of images of me from a little kid
all the way through my life
and I went back to tell says seventy two and discontinue
on photographing the kids
and then tell tulsa, and my friend
we're still alive,
I gotta go over, there was a prostitute and we went around and you go in fact: doctors again
a jamming scripts
for others oxen and for
I now it for herself could use a heroine addict
and wage over the whole country for a couple of years,
bag and alive and mergers, liberal, outlaw life and
some of this stuff from times square. Those images were pretty grand, and in that I was, it appears jittery because
a poker game were resumed.
I said I didn't know well and and I won, and they wouldn't pay me and one guy pulled out a gun, and so I left with my girlfriend
into the car, and I got a gun and I came back and I went into the house, I shot the guy and I shot him in the arm on purpose. Think on purpose, I dunno. If I just missed,
I like an burma, I I might dismiss a negative.
And left
and about
week later, I got busted the cup
stop me ambition me virtue. The sky
and my mom
that was what you know the guy
to me now. Why would he italian bible,
is that may allow cause.
Now. I m a thumb.
And my friends and mila my ass, it was it was. He always was like Billy, the kid gatty James you some
The opposed to gonna knew you, gotta, get, show them you and
and I was actually shocked that he assisted me. So I had to go to court
and I got like,
for five years,
I got for years. I think on one charge a year, another charge
and I had nineteen months and some member per all, because
my mother's rather an uncle
don't be. A newspaper writer asked why sportswriter further
paper and autonomous city? I thank and he knew
rebellion politicians and
so my mother employed him and he pulled a few strings and-
So I got to go through the pearl mud and get brawl, but they wouldn't prom major oklahoma. There
I promised in new york, so
pro dowd. Seventy eight was it: where are we
where were you in the pen?
mom and mcallister bad ones. Eight percent prototyping our time a hard time,
I was in a maximum security prison and how did you hold up in the? I was fine. You know cause I had friends in there you know, and so I was fine- that people watching my back and I'm
the no real, how accurate poetry? And with this I could talk about that.
I have how to act, but
I saw you what's the main thing you need to know
to know that you never ask anybody what their end for here
and you never make jokes. Were people at you don't know here and you mind your own business.
And you don't talk aloud
and you never asked people like personal questions, especially what they're in for because
doesn't matter what their envoy and they say. You know I murdered my family. You know my family, my brother, my sister, my mother, my father and my baby,
brother. I you know, because you never know we're gonna ask you: do you gonna get Iraq so
if a urine with and yourself made us someone-
excel, and you ask them what they're in for a man I mean you don't want to know that yeah, you know, so you never ask anybody what they're in for us the number one rule
and and and
I'm a jug around in your quiet and you
stay straight ahead and, in that sense, bigger this dependent century. Man
this really bad people in their ballot.
but I'll, tell you one thing about the penitentiary. Ninety percent
people in a minute entry?
for you know you know for crime here, but ninety percent
are all dragon alcohols,
drug attics, knocker colleagues and in their crimes a come.
From that write me. A dog act not all right. This is ten percent of people
HU. I, the penitentiary that really need to be independent entry and the three or four percent of people in the peasantry that need
be executed. Maybe they need to be
I out and shot in the head because edges, I gotta of people just they just
no realise that way and other candidate. Today they don't have that deed. I I think scientists have proven that p.
Like that who don't have a conscious, phil any guilt Messina
jeanne awry something jean alive. I l, l. I owe my best friend
Jack jobs like there lived a narrow deed
Teenage love
at the beginning and end of articles about him in his life and his crime.
so teenage wise is really you at your most attic control insomnia. We have gathered.
In the light photograph currently I've
and and the prostitute addict and my best friend jack,
and
The heroin attic end and a crook
so you are old and new york, yes, probably again, like jack, had no was the most
charming yoda. Well, you'd, love jack, yes, but sir jack dynamic.
go here. He had no guilt felons now conscious he
he could be like you and me talking, and you turn your back and he may take you out your money.
Pocket and never give it. A second thought,
This is a natural thing related and fell. Go yes, mother, the most charming guy in the world and by the way a homicide detectives
charming, charming the most charming people I ever met because they have
to be charming for people to tell other stuff
so narrow charm. So any
I so. Where are we now and where we're now at the the publication teenage lust and you self publish at, I sell
Is she dead and I want to make film and I wanted to stop a drug addict
clean my act. I was still there.
Drugs like crazy and drinking like an alcoholic
for all the man. I was my parole officer,
He wasn't there that day, so another guy there to talk to me.
Once have a couple of weeks. I once a month
and anyway and I was drunk- and I passed out in the chair. Talking to the problem
officer the substitute brow loves and
I woke up hank to the chair, and now
the guy's what the fuck man, you know. What it was was a man
Larry and- and I said god,
I am shy and I'm really sorry I am you know I I'll I'll. Stop it. You not! Please, please, please,
and you have an analogous me, let me go
next summer, when I found my parole officer, my regular browser- and I was always preferably straight
you don't make sure that I wasn't anywhere high and there were no drugs at my face them.
so. I lived on that for all and
the parole officer. Others was forty, a street between eight
I've avenue and I
Somebody had never seen before yeah, I was completely in shock. I saw
young people, there were the girl process
is either by know about right. Yeah, there are people selling drugs. I know about them
he's young teenage part.
We can boys
I with tight, say you know here and how in your decks, you know again, you come on. Looks
to every man that walked down the street right and as
What you have to wonder what's going on man, you know, and he explained
I was going on. He a hustler and he he'd come from puerto rico
family there too, like live with the relatives in new york vs, and they had, and israelis had like ten kids too. So after a couple of weeks
He was thrown out that has had to leave so he was like sixteen.
dsl in new york city on his own,
so long away- afraid that he could make money or find out how to make money was to go to forty secretary and
all right
and I hustle hustle these, like you know
Oh man, middle aged man, allow everybody right
let em sagas, decker Emily, give money
you know as I guess, suck their dick or whatever they do. Man you know.
and he found that threaten you fast. It grows ever heard of a real numbers. It never happened
heard me this does happen. So I started
who ever these kids
and made friends with them and how made friends with them was
finally, the item on the street. Here I was just saying there: hustling
and I would go home and and
I had a dog ruin my kitchen, then I get pregnant nighttime. I had a blackout curtain,
and and and I would make these beautifies great per annum and making
if eleven, my fourteen, prince
and then take him back to the kids the next day and give him too.
and they would be so impressive ago, while men thanks Larry, because a great
What are the alpha member? I you know, and they never seen anything like that, but yeah, it's beautiful and my fourteen prints and they would say gee thanks Larry, so I made great friends with him.
And my best I about that, as I gave this this kid, this incredible
I would like to have my one from myself and one for him. There was I too, of a kind,
and he took your parent Jeez thanks Larry and he folded
pause and put it in his back pocket either that the greatest ever and those
the pictures are engage last year
it's not about it, because I think there
These will masterpiece. Thank you very much. I love them movie. They got here too,
of my best ones and you're in it. You kind looming in it a bit.
read were improved. I play a tiny pride. Why have one lies kids, father, because the act you didn't show up, we had no actual plants,
It forced him to do it now, when you approach him, because now that you mentioned early on in this conversation, the cast of eddies blow your mind that there is an element to the naturalism of how you approach film. That's like his, don't you think yeah
now in a movie. You know, I see this
the continuation of of yes, some of them
emotional and sexual elements of probably teenage was
something always done, but you know
What you allowed, those that the actors to do go. It was sort of like to me
so I did your whole sort of what would do I want.
He's the word over, but you earlier
You know that it was all very clark, Alban leading to bully for me right. Do you think s troops were true and
you know, in terms of how that movie was received. I don't remember how was received by for me
The wrong is of of of sexuality, and violence in that movie was something that you know it fell.
You were gone for I felt like them some one of the core of the artistic vision, but he couldn't be realised completely.
the photographs exactly right, rather always want to be a film migration and fair
for me,
it was. I had done everything that I could do with photography, rice, visually photography. I'd done everything for myself. I could do
and as I wanted to make film the eye, and so at the end, and I wasn't make film my whole life, but I was to fight it
No, no I'm gonna give amaze allows no. Yes, I clean myself up and luckily for
I fell in love after after I cleaned up with this.
wonderful, woman
from the land to georgia, who lived, who had come to new york after college, your wife, my wife.
the end and we're getting married. Having
the children
and we were together about thirteen years and then separated in my fault
separated my father. Could I drink it again
and my father
but what we separated after about thirteen years, but
most wonderful children you'd you just met, met my son here as a punk rock band in seattle call, while mohicans drearier while mohicans-
my daughter has a
my granddaughter now this and myself, wonderful, beautiful, fuller, daughter, smart kid who met.
Her high school, sweet and so wonderful. So I always when they make films I cleaned up, and then I was lucky enough to meet this moment
following eleven, we got married and I said
lane for years.
and then I decided it was time to make a film, and I want to make a film not about my
celtic is all my work had mounted biographical. They want to make a film about a whirl. I didn't know yeah so as to make a world about contemporary teenagers
the term that I knew nothing about, and so I pick skateboard is because visually they were the most exciting mia.
visual artists, dregs, you know my escape by this
so I infiltrated traded.
eight boyd world and to do that idler escape one fifty years old and new,
No one knows our forty seven forty eight years. I escaped body and
because if you gonna photographs gate balls, you can't run after me, gotta skate. Yet so I learn how to skate fast
eleven bomb hills and everything with my leica here
and so I skating in California and then back in new york with skaters and met skating for three or four years and got
I therefore kid from real
life amends right. They happen,
so kids is really everything.
Kids is true to realise that actually happened except jenny
jenny have an hiv jenny as the only made up character in in the film here and cheese there, because I didn't want to do a documentary and I need
something like it. So I could make make the film
major film,
narrative riot- and so I just reverting back to the old, a maiden tide of the railroad tracks for the train coming behind their. I rose rush into cyber right and so that
That was the ideas so genies made up, and then I tied all the truth, stubborn of skateboarders, from that I knew with it and I
this one page treatment
with them, and I called a friend of my Jim Louis, whose who's a well known novelist, end, writes about art, and I tell him
the story. I won the taliban. He helped me right this one page, a treatment
where the story right at- and I said I twenty four hour movies ellen everything of is that I've seen happen the last three years,
crammed this twenty four hour movie domingo, exciting india, and I thought of this
your jenny, the hedge, a job, we ve got it from her sexual experience
and then I said you know now
now. I know the story, the beginning, the metal, the end, everything
happens, but I'm not really a rider and
decided I did from the inside. I need
he had from the inside derided, but there are no kid skateboard right
as I now and then I thought here
allocating a girl that me he was a rider
named harmony, who told me that he written is old. Twenty minutes scream by what is a nice girl
so I called him up is a year later after, Madame briefly in washington square, I call
harmony. I swear it.
If you told me, you wrote this little twenty minute screenplay bring it up, and let me read it so I brought it. I read it, it was brilliant and
economists joy, that wooden, please adults throughout most people at age, right for the teachers, to please adults right, and this would not please adults, so I asked
kids, and he said I ve been waiting all my life to write this.
And he was nineteen and he just he was eighteen. When I met him, he just kind of go
and then you won the n Y for a year, and I chose to quit. I made him quit school,
here and he rode kids images, grandma's house,
One sheet of paper with destroy and above this brilliant, brilliant variant scream
all the dialogue and, as they said,
The movie as except for that one or improper. The four boys in the couch is all
harmonies words that I made the kid save sighted scrap
and how many wrote the brilliant script, and he also wrote the brilliant script. For ken part from my diaries and yeah and what happened with another day in Paradise, I would say what
story on that another the umbrella paradise. My second film someone had sent men, unpublished, manuscript by this x,
big, nay mattie level. Yet who was
on his way back to the penitentiary, and here we have
son valley, California, the worst rehab I've ever met in hot all
this little house full of ex convict, always burly guys with tattoos. There
next arms in the whole body weight indigo
in front of a judge in trying to get clean. So maybe they wouldn't get some us time, and I talk you eddie
too often in his manuscript, unpublished, man,
your honor, the in Paradise.
And then I met a young rider christopher land and who was michael and son one here. One of his sons
our youngest son, I think, and
christopher wrote the screenplay
close enough, the that, but I could get the money and make the movie
and when I made the movie, I changed around
and incorporated myself and jack just
them to offer an expert
that I too had my friends. It had from tools here and incorporated them into the character of melbury played by Jimmy was james. Woods
and so I changed
all around,
and sir James words, character of mouth is
any levels manuscripts and
may I knew directed it may lead to regulate and and and jimmy pneumonia Griffith
and we needed like a to get the money for it, because it's like a three and a half minute movie or something so we needed
a female sign here. Melody
so he called melody over to his house hurried. He worked before
and Jimmy and I talk melias doin it. So we made it
and it was a rush shoot because
Once again, I had to train the whole crew because of the hollywood crew crew right and they have all these roles and every everything I'd say: that's a nice not done that way. Does this role that one right and I said, listen pal or on our rules that we're to not going to do it that way, we're going to do it backwards right there,
like I was crazy. I'm a molecule render sideways
so now
intelligent views so
train the whole fucking crew to do it. The way I want to do because I live
The clear visual I always have a very clear vision. I know exactly what I want, how the movie is going to look exactly. Did they do it and they did it yeah, but it was a fight, but they did it and I made them do it.
and they're they're there.
It seems that marie that no one here
ever done before that I made him do and and they would not do it and I made him, do it and
I can do it where you were you using during that
in Paradise. I had just come of heroin habits. I was clean
during the filming
claimed during the film india, but an editor I went back to heroin and as heroin and my azure was was doing cocaine so like
is doing cocaine either by the bags and I'm in the bathroom narrow, but that was editing, but during the shoot I was perfectly.
every move ever shot. I've shop perfectly clean,
nothing? No drugs, no alcohol about no, nothing perfectly clean, except for the last summer,
if a girl to which will be next year- and I
this big spinal opera
jane and I was all drugged up and
Japan. I shouldn't make development
staggered around falling down
because my knees were gone with us right- is so right.
I made a martyr,
to which I just finished, counting all come out early next year.
In my view, taxes amendment four girl there are no mark madrigal. Do I flew back,
I can have both knees replaced.
I saw it shouldn't have been making the film, but the money was there. So I made it and I'm glad I made it, but I paid the price
So my then I was in for so much pain for you.
My knees and the authorized mona about. I had most knees replaced
so the only from I've ever been the employers
directly was my forgot to all the other films evans has been strike. Attain am bully, like you know that thing you know watching that the experience of all
Then. How do I was it's? Not it's on
like any other movie, unlike any movie ever made visually, be as it's or visually exciting. Yet no other movie. I watches
it is so visually exciting every same, because there's all these for people to talk to each other, the same
I over and over and over again the you gonna make this a you know
you know of compelling
polly for an audience is said through it. So the
so I was gonna make it visually exciting. So I so
with my dp I steve gainer, which was his first feature. We, I decided
because we should do so quick. We shall in twenty three days,
we ourselves have five days in thirty days. In the day we started shooting
Are we only have two or three days? Can it can't be done? I said fuck you, I'm gonna, do it so
see malaysia in two or three days, never
dailies, I never saw a frame of
until the engine room
and though and shit no shared, and what we did was we shot
racing single shot known to man from every movie ever made every different shot,
may and and, and we ran out of every shot ever made. Then I went to
shots. I would never make. I hated like Paul focus on sub like that
and we did like four or five shot
that I hated the ape sets wide never issued. We shall proceed with those jaws and I talk to
even ices. Is there any shouted? You ain't? You never do anything, yes, one and we did that job. So every shot known to man is in that film because
such a good visual art is right and is the most exciting.
Individual from I've ever seen, the actors or great and ass you re read, ran for bijou fail of michael pit yeah.
Stalin near binding on us when, in I noticed in there in the new exhibition, there is sort of a peace. Dedicated brad ran fro to pieces, yet to be collage.
Did you know like what? What is it about? The year you seem to like be compelled india
in this sense at you, you look and photographs and you look at even the film. They shouted tell us,
These guys is party or life that was out of control, but also filled with possibility
This weird adolescent. There, though, that this strange that ned
if there something loaded in electro electric about adolescence, because you don't know which way it's going to go, how your wife's going to be dictating. What's going to happen that energy, that seems to be something that you're attracted to
well. You know I look back at my work for fifty years. I realized
that job
all my work. If you look at every piece of work
I've done is always about small groups of people from
laser was up rockers about
our central latino, kids,
trying to be the self you know
with all his peer pressure from the blacks,
to where baggy clause and cut off their hair and aware and listen up against. Europe is more pot
kids one to grow their hair wearing tight close. This loophole grog escape one, so they had to fight
Eight. The bee, who they are everyday that divide it just to be who they are
who they won me as an adolescent dry out different identities to be their self.
and the reason why there is such a tight clause. You can see their dicks
through the genes is because they were
so poor that as egg wreath twelve thirteen for
in fifteen years, all their wages,
clothes they had been. They were lebanon, twelve, is so poor here that they couldn't
for new clothes, are there actually wind claws when they're fourteen or fifteen wearing clothes that they had when they were twelve right? And they just you know,
kept growing and way the same cause to the cause
so tight european fucked up. So they said-
your pictures on their claws, and really
making their clothes. Quite I you know, like
different and unusual and compelling- and
so you know- and I told them when we measure in the film
the progress and we shall sell senator or no white people go. It's me I mean
for years now, as ever celebrated may, because all of attitude- I'm not scared and and and
walk through gang infested neighborhoods
and guys have driven by and cries and shouted the house where our next year,
I'm talking to someone. I Libya's develops tog into one of the causes of the progress, the crowd, guided by solid judge,
been caption do thou next door and I went what the fuck
de kremer riders. What flat cream is growing eyes. Other have a dollar time here.
And I saw anyway
I'm, I'm always drawn took small groups
people that you would not know about. Unless I made
photographs her. I made the films they
you never know about these fourteen year old, latino, kids, yeah they're alive, because you always
potatoes in movies. Cast
gangbanger drugs released.
normal, regular kid
drawing up in. I happened to grow up in the worst most violent section.
No, why people go all black and latino to the worst high school in america. Lock high school would happen,
the new york times listed the waste cycle in america. Laughlin number one, but is there also his guide, be an energy to it? There there's something up
or in vital about the of that period in
was well well. Well, I my period was: was so fucked up an unhappy because
father hated me, and
twelve years all I was sitting we can look after school. This is great
father works of art in the house in any come home around then. For me, the travelers element,
for some reason he didn't like me. Maybe I reminded him of him when he was a kid. I have no idea why, but he
in the house and as you walking past me,
to go upstairs to his room way. Always was the isolated air total ice later we were
I said what it means that you learn shit and want to assume
never spoke to me again.
My whole allies. It never spoke to me again and I couldn't wait until I was eighteen years old to get out of the house
Once when I was about seventeen,
I mean all I wanted was my father loved me. Like me, you know once a couple of
our friends of a very old friend of his from the road from the from the measure itself from the crew that we're
for the reader service that rewards you for came
the town, guy, pager and guy came by Pedro came
son, who was a teenager and
maybe I'll from my father pit play golf and so
I said: hey man, you're playing
after mall in and guide you yoga women, guy, junior and wrangler along. If I got so much
no choice. So so so
we went out that day and play
off with a guy painted a son
and me my dad dad and I and
and then after that day next day, god painters and left town, my father,
paying godfrey guide. Every man had a bucket above. Never
It's go play golf, never
made ago, had a bucket eyeballs, wear them
and never never spoke to me again still accept that one day one guy was in town
and I have no idea why and
and when he died about eighty two he went
spinelli was always a leader. He was like gum
He had auburn hair and really like white light. Skinny couldn't get a sun dounia who understand they get sunburn.
And he was later so he had to have like a bow reception. Not not the word,
operation in the world. It was a success, but he but he kept
in the committee have debated so they took him in a village
more operations is up the bleeding, and finally, I just
well the doctors. I should look. You know you know enough is enough. You know you know you're not going to,
we know the guy can't stand. Another operation is united, keeps bleeding he's waiting he's waiting.
So the doktor gone my eldest sister,
and told her I was trying to kill. My father
so my father passed away,
stolen love, a man I shall love to this day. I don't hate him anymore, but I just don't give a fuck
bout, Emilio slower
I haven't done happy childhood
And are always been drawn to other people's analysed
there's an how beg europe
because everybody goes up in a different way of situations differ.
Environment, different paris,
It's all my work, mostly about a lot of my work, has meant about that. You know I love talking to you.
I think we ve got a lot in, I think so too,
Thank you mark. Thank you very much. Ok man!
you'll, some, not absolutely
Ok, you cannot take a nap now, so I thought it was a lie:
There was a for me. I was honoured to talk to Mr Clarke again to check out my tour dates
its emerge go to deputy pod back on power by squares, baisers anew poster
from my recent boston shows air. If you're collecting. I think I will play a little guitar if I can get I'm getting so fat. She can say that out loud, but it's onset all the food that just always booed everywhere. It's like a fucking cruise ship hold on. Let me get my guitar
the
or in.
Transcript generated on 2022-09-05.