« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 758 - Shep Gordon

2016-11-09 | 🔗
Talent manager Shep Gordon had no real interest in pop music. He was a young hippie making money dealing drugs to rock stars. Shep tells Marc how he transitioned into a life of management and production with an eclectic group of clients including Alice Cooper, Ann Murray, Teddy Pendergrass, Raquel Welch, and a bunch of celebrity chefs. Also, Marc reflects on the 2016 Presidential Election.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
All right, let's do this: how are you what the voters, what the fuck bodies, what the fuck in years, what the fosters what's happening, I'm honored mare- and this is my podcast w tee. I know what's happening, I know, what's happening Recording this nah. Wednesday morning so of aiding been happens between now And when this posts, Here tonight, in the middle of the night, this wednesday morning. We're gonna post, an interview today with the shap, gordon that was recorded. Before the election by death, but it's what we do to get in the great interview, wisdom
I talk about how was cooper and groucho, Marx and other stuff. But I know that seems irrelevant. I mean everything seems relevant now that that is the the feeling that that I got last night. We were on that late king him with election results, and it was, it was dead. Stating there's there's no other way to look at it for four people. I believe in prague, ass in changing natural evolution it the stating for those reasons who you decided to vote for and feeling last night, the reserve there's a selfish panic there,
when you. What does this mean? How scared do I have to be, and then start thinking like how scared do we have to be, and you know what it was how do you know what is this? What does this mean in an. Innately. My my first, my first action, which is surprising, but not not really for me, it is to do to become despondent and depressed and and and and grief stricken and and self pitying an end, just defeated. The bottom line is theirs. It there's a fuckin, gaping wound. In this country, and I don't I don't know I don't I don't know how it gets fix. I know that I gotta keep talking like this fundamentally political show, but I believe that he was the wrong guy, and I believe, a lot of people that sucker and I believe that we were this one of the long in most.
Insanely compelling long cons ever executed an idea who were them, Why? Yes, on some level, more than half country, maybe the world- and this is the first time. That someone has completely hoodwinked entire nation. Plenty racism. Plenty of me age, any plenteous, sexism, plenty of anti semitism plenty of the worst arch of of Country there's plenty of that, but there was just plenty of people. Whose reaction towards slow progress of social, racial An economic change reaction was trump.
So that means the predominant feeling is fuck. You fuck change. Let's bring it back. Let's bring back something. I understand something narrow. Something not only conservative but something that feeds and justifies an entitlement that is shifting Don't change anything is a matter of fact get rid of the chain in progress we made because it doesn't does enjoy, With me,. So this is how this is where rat and you can sit there and go well. You know he's not my president, many of them If the euro burma but there, but the truth is that the of the way it works is that he is he's ease everyone's president. The president reflects the country. You got a problem with him, you had a problem with the country. So what do we do
do. I sit in the despondent grief stricken futility. Of of someone who who gives up. No man, no, this. Should a time and place. He will be a shitty president because he's a shitty person, so what is at me as an american. As somebody boys and change, and wants to try to fight why you keep fighting to keep talking keep tight with your communities in and we we try to fucking healed gaping wound. Maybe I'm being too optimistic. What am I gonna? Yellow people fuck? I would
eight years, a w. I thought that fight lost book What I do here is I talk to people about straw, Go about art, about creativity, about personal power. Holmes, personal awareness about Social struggle, but they I mean that I don't. I don't know what else to do so it's fine to realize. It. Tweeting is not social action, reading is not activism. I mean I gotta changed my life to you now. On some levels you get it, spoiled when you're insulated, And you get a little disconnected from what their people going through. Maybe even your neighbors maybe even you know people that we don't know anymore. For that, thought we knew that we didn't but continue
to talk about these things. It's wouldn't I mean it's it's it's it's it's answer really in that I'm going to keep doing and that's what people be doing all the time. In their lives, I mean fucking talk to people talk to people in depth. Feel out where their pain is. I feel out where you have common ground feel out. You know why, why we can all live together, but under the surface, was all this fucking hatred and anger and unjust. Garbage emotions that built up The weird thing is: when you get one on one or in a group of people in a circle of people, things are different see Someone faced a vase feeling their life in your face. And in your heart in that moment, feeling that that makes a fuck indifference.
Now we're all fucking detached we're off floating in our little narcissism pods that we communicate from. How do you think so much of this hate took place that fuckin phones. Now I don't want to sound like an old man, but these are the extensions of our brains use it. You know this idea that, if you're smart enough, if you're too there are enough. You can adapt to technology and use it appropriately. It's not true, it say it say it. A an illusion of social connection. That's innately neatly cowardly, innately, limited in terms of human connection? It's got nothing to do with it. Man I got it's like.
We work together. We work with these people, these people, who are these people, you decide who they are, we're all people, gotta fuck and talk to each other catches. Tweed Adam catches like what they posted; No might be the only way. Out of this I mean the don't. You ever have this fantasy, that that all that shit, just breaks I mean what is it really. That's what I do, and here I talk to people in all my assumption about anybody granted, I'm not. Talking about politics? Usually I'm not talking about europe. Social change necessarily, but everything I assumed about anybody. That's ever sat in front of me Was wrong because it was limited by Whatever input, I decided to focus on to define them. And when they sit down as living breathing fragile
people, everything opens up, because that's what humans do. And we ve lost why that in this way, sound try, but what? Do we got, but each other I mean fuck. I've worked with republicans. I've had them open for me, I I know people and I've worked with people, and I am friends with people I think differently than me drastically That's one of the beautiful things about comedians and about this world. Tat we live in, for the most part is that you can You can have those different views now, who knows if there is even a context, any more that will harnesses shit
I don't know, but are we guys each other? I know that I know it sounds trite. True, true fuck I so For those you voted form, I hope he I hope he delivers what you want to deliver. I hope your b with yourselves? And because is wrong and have to go through it together and those of us who didn't that believe in a different type of country that fighting news and I'll keep talking here and I'll. Keep talking to people now try to keep entertained I dont want to be self the, but I'm he and he age as feed like things change. I dont know what the tone of things is going to be as we and through the new year or how everything can a pan out. I'll stay engaged and I'll keep talking.
But it is, it is a fact. In devastating blow for those of us who believed that, at the very east social and economic change could could happen and continue to happen and it's scary time drying out right, let's talk about show business and wisdom. Shep Gordon he's got a new book out, it's called they call me superman's backstage pass to the amazing worlds of film food and, and role to good guy I wasn't sad and despondent andor, feeling futility and hopelessness. When I talked to him, maybe that'll perky up, I did it
and ship gordon in recording studio before you know how that works. You the eldest some producers. Now the photo, never yoga saw the movie. I saw supervention at you, I enjoyed it by. I thought so he must have yelped once oh yeah did every moment. Usually you yourself with theatre. Oh yeah, not real yelling, its theatre, yell. All right right right decides for a fact There are times you used particularly doing what I do. You don't have time, thirty out to do stuff, you're in real time bright. You know salem. I remember there was a great body of just one incident when I had a really get forceful yeah against my personality. We we played moscow for the first time with Alice cooper. Yet- and there was a brand new basketball stadium yeah and there was no seeding behind the stage, so I told them
provide roper some barricade via an them. When I got back for showtime of that, only an hour ago knows no rope, the american right. And I really could not allow him to go on a new and it was real time be. A people were in the hall yeah. I didn't have time to be a nice guy. Unexplained right was here, and there is a language draw earlier. I would very near they swayed to use it. Couldn't afford rope, really This was what we still communist. So as I can they. Seventy, yes to them, and I haven't afford rope real at which I thought was just spent then, but I couldn't did you throw out a few bucks ignored all right, so I got really. You know. Intent I said I'm moving about out the other way you gonna stop from moving out and I raised my boy in way leaving you, I could get the. U S, embassy, here. We, we are leaving and automatically like three thousand soldiers showed up cheaper than rope, and they form the union barricade we went on
Soldiers are cheaper than road, but they're all over of existing dynamic country ever gets what it's ass? We are cooper. Was your first client to manage hats, as the only one that still with yurt, but that's because a you you got out of the game are the most partner. So your ear jewish guy, obviously luckily shia, and so what? What do you come from me? I like I liked the whole journey from young new york to how you, but you are and how he waited definitely good tie. I think I was a typical kid. The sixties, yet what tammany talkin our motion so long island right, mortal beach club like flamingo kid yet I dated the daughter the guy, who is the great car players from mingle kid a relic yet put his name was Al Feldstein who own whenever we based
that guy yeah yeah yeah. We suppose, but I dunno if it was based on him, but it was based on that club that moment in those clubs club had their guy. Oh really yeah. They all had a guy with the pinky ring sure had the most. Four blonde wife right who wanted poker every night or not gangsters. These negotiations, you gambia mostly in the small business, so they're living on the island. The working in the city react in that. That was the big move that was bigger than the post immigrants to step up and for the kids, and we were the first generation that had some type of economic freedom. It wasn't big most of the parents if the middle class, but it was still something they wanted to give. You a better life than that, so we all went to college most of us on some kind of a regents scholarship where he appear. From born here. My parents were born here, first generation grandparents, with access to read or write it in a real aid. Multiple sue really gad that I owe you grew up with a real le fanny, frank,
grandmother, oh yeah made the greatest lot goes and fled to the sea live in the house. Always you had to get the chicken from the bottom when you went to the store, a right to life, the wisdom to keep the chicken from the vault of ship right because they put the old stuff on top rated movie. I do that through all the pieces in the back or you have a bag of greens, always go in the bay I get I'll be at the stove cooking for thirty people and start laughing hysterical. I realize of chattel. Grandmother was more completely and say that it would have been done better than what beautiful italy the thing about life about feeding pierre reading. The answer that I wrote that tradition really came through, so I would you- How do you my dad was a bookkeeper vienna, never took his cps. Whenever became an accountant, a wonderful man yeah any work for what were you ever handkerchief company handkerchief company, that most of the Jews worked somehow this matter or
when you move it out to the west coast of an entertainment business right when you're on the east coast. There was somehow somewhere with dismay. The bitter cause. You always had a relative yeah. We could get. And who could get you yeah will get, you can run the carts around? I worked. I drew the carts learned, a great lesson. I alert to great lesson rolling the cart one I learn. Is you better be really careful if you're going to be good at what you do? How could you know Everybody else look bad and you never gonna get out of a job. You have better like the job, and the second thing I learned is, which was the technicality only for that business was it. You always had a push you carts, so you could look at a window because people would walk on the other I do, the card there was blind near razor blade outside it and take the dresses up. Really deluge ass. You could tell who the new guys were ready to board always next to a window right
but act with emission dress is not making that you're always had a you. Couldn't do them the place it everybody ship from was called gilbert trucking. That's where those racks usually we're going to react gilbert trucking to go out to the country and the avenue vat knock. I if you came back in the fifteen minutes it took for the run. That was not good cause, all the guys who had been a third, years. It took them an hour and a half right. What are you doing get so? I would like to write the first day I got my dog to have some practical get some they eat. I can enable kids, but I stopped union guys before the union. I guess it was it was their union is a union for that, but so that so york at that time was. You know that was the new york of of great you grand you're right I was. I was still in it right. It was great Your answer was political unrest It was the time of the war, so they set out
there's an early sixties. Early sixties we were taking psychedelic, see after it already already in the mid sixties. Right is once like a delicate like sixty six yen and what hit at the same time was his whole aunt ivy at no movement right where people took action. Nea and action had effected burn. We burner cards in the middle of the street. You did you bring either you burn and rocky, please produce this was across the country. It wasn't- and I know I know but like I like for you, you were the you are politically correct. If he were, I was a politically active. I was politically destructive, I was always a europe, it would be more vat when everyone was doing correct, gave you event and there was anger sure, and I think you have personal anger, yes about primarily based on the fear of going yeah had I had fear of going napalm. He just seem to be horrifying, unbelievable how you could do that, how you could wake up in the morning and napalm people you never met. Yeah was unbelievable right that they made people, do it horrible right and it just
was a time when I think all college kids thought it was really for people and make money the arms dealers, it just turned ugly, so him nation was getting out via the fifties. We're over. This is the real deal and we affected. Little bayer, so I think we all got. Little bit. Empowered here. Did you maybe we could actually do something right when whose price now be J. Well was right when Kennedy got shot as us three and that to begin that was the beginning of when the eta were moving starts. When you- and I must have it devastating remember how a view among seventy one Ok, so I gm fifty three I was born in sixty three zero. This was a baby show I now debating You have to learn a come grandpa, but you should shit zone that wisdom automated it is I'm in trouble, but you remember the day John Kennedy was shot very well parity with clarity, I remember being in place called on her, so the fresh from the college we all got together in the street attic circle near held each year
cried now, my guy was really the end, the sort of innocence the I would further country for the whole country, and then it was a world right right that someone could be Just take it out like that, while in in daylight, then you think aware to come to today what we accept- oh yeah, just as a normal. Now, men in all my direct aid- and I think everyone in some sort of mild pity ass. Yet I think it needs a mean, wondered things. I've tried doing this book and having an opportunity and actually talk to someone other than my. My committee, defiantly tat, is to say the there's, nothing wrong with taking action, a new or somebody. However, you can. However you can somebody really need to do something? Ricky catches right, it's a damn chrissy go ahead and watch this thing go by cause you're going to lose your eye to the last thing in my book, says, am just where we dropped out of the womb you win or lose the game.
Yeah, which is pretty true. We think about ninety percent of the country you drop out of the world. Yeah you drop out of the room, you're not going to be you or me right. We should near this microphone right you if you drop in Somalia right so just that and do we want give the head up the oh, my god like well exam Yeah yeah, there's a yeah. The luck of the draw the cosmic, the drawer and they'll, give it up man. You are the luckiest people on the planet. I I don't. I think that there is a lack of gratitude and I you know I'm probably guilty of it as well, but you know I I'm doing all right for myself so that temper some things, but I I do think that people lose sight of just what an amazing country to just watch the news for five minutes like it. It is why go travel somewhere yeah. You know she what's going on the fact that that I could be here having an interview with you have written a book that you could be here at the viewing me now many places in the world with this and we can say what we want to say at completely, which is unbelievable right or even if you had the opportunity and enough
thereby heads and there was a radio station. I would broadcasts we're, not hiding go on it, the possibility journey now. I agree. I think that's a good way to frame gratitude, but tat. So you're you're, a jewish kid you're, angry you're, you're burning draft cards you running around trip in one is very timely, took ass it actually take acid till my second year in college san francisco, my troop came through buffalo they, the as a decorated by Carlos tree with sugar cubes come on. I swear which sugar cube I shall what that and Peter who survey, act or now who was one of the san francisco? My true he said it is highly peter coyote. I do it's. Lsd watch lsd, all this. We re have heard about it, yeah that was it but that was the good shit, so he brought from ours. We that's like in the mid sixties. I was like the first few backwards and that I did I became. Maybe we would you say I am his representative for both
here today, as we heard somebody who somebody that you're a girl it in your mouth in the cubes you're getting the. Luckily, though, I was getting it all, but I'd never by the time I got it when it turned to pay for so blotter yeah. So right, Lada was what I and it was much easier to handle, and what was your experience? You know because you know at that time. I think that the acid experience was not hackneyed. It was original. Those are the original ass experiences, so the equity we young people would do ass in the last thirty forty years are basing the of what should happen on you So when you took it, the idea was mind, expansion that there would be truth given and and it must have been a little nervous- what what happened you know how to change your perception I think you had to have. I can't tell you actually that it did. I already really pay eighty I took before acid really that was around and they come out in mexico and they took the reopen, the actual we do. In mexico,
Therefore, I wanna be a gigolo. I was a failure, but how would we attack with eighty, It is only a gigolo. Exactly ass. It Eric and gigolo an eighteen year old jewish. Can I come from a long island, a completely struck out at once again, and I completely struck out even starts at, but I dig it really lucky. Could I had been there once before. I had met this guy rubio, whose a beach boy and his life sucks so romantic. He slipped on the beach women took up the Carlos Charlie's the there. In those days, an echo It was a mostly schoolteacher. Why did you go there on vacation with your family? I went there a school because I would sell like I was in the pharmaceutical business, so I get procured by slept there, we'd yeah. I gave it to my teachers, so I didn't have to take tests you gave we dear teachers, eight enough to take tat when you went to mexico from long island on the money from buffalo with the money you made for by Sellen we'd to get more we'd get to you
run in part at the buffalo from mexico bribing your teacher is so you ready for show business already filled with a year ago. So the gigolo think so you just as you met one blue, really forty two. There was a girl that I had money, did they get along maybe seven, eight hundred, but I met I used to take this pay. Eighty, which was terrible, tasty, cut it up and take put back your tongue. It put it in on it on a raft near water in front of the hilton hotel, I sort of my spot. Yokels he'd, tat drop alien, go sit on a rather really pretty girl out there when they enable sousa, choose a schoolteacher from brooklyn, we got friendly, we never had a romance and she ended by me every day, a big boy hamburger than that of big boy. Heaven they're going to exit carbonate, stupid earth. Like thirty minutes, big boy here for about a big blobs, big boy. That's right! You! later, Glenn bucks than the original guitar player analysis ban shows up with his new girlfriend to feel more and it soon
that the one the brooklyn schooldays europe by hamburger. So what I would like a thousand evergreens that favour that I have always that profit in those that she couldn't stay in touch with people. There were no cell phones, he has no emails right. A hard line in a a snail mail. So I was completely true and she just showed up just showed up one of those weird coincidences completely weird, so did you finish? College finish, god. What degree got a bachelor of arts went to? Is the new school for social research for a few months to study and why, know what sociology didn't know what I was going to do really. My my cousin own, the place called divine garments that sold dresses for funerals and and suits for inner city yeah haha they had no backs, and them really I worked there for a few months in every client was dried. Every client was crying.
One happy client because they were buying for the people, so they'd be referred by the funeral parlor or the funeral home to go to that place and pick a dress and they did have to make an emergency run once in awhile. If the dresser, the suit didn't fit all my I don't usually look back at all the funeral power that didn't last one but it but a recruiter came in to the new school looking for candidates for the parole system of california, when Reagan was the governor, and yet they come to schools to pitch people will apply, could indeed work. What was the gig, it was to be a probation officer sociology or sociology or sociology can only be a probation officer or social worker right. That was it. That was the that was the the job. So the states went around to the schools no kidding you're pitching to You know where you bright guys you want who have big hard. I said you know that since my moment I'll always want to go to california, probably go on a big white horse. Save these. Had long hair reagan was in tyrant, ere I come out of the sixties
I thought I could really affects the yeah like. I could really go out there and do so and do something rio and went out outside it. Allen, acid and weed was still solid cause. I knew a better though I get there and it was horrible. I got beat up the first day of the jail political loss between show hawk. It was all reagan, cops air and I was along here here then. Am I a booby yet the cops another kids, they put me in a soft ball game. They had. We take the kids out so for all the other guards left so these are not at all quality nokia idea that one kid spoken did you speak spanish spoke spanish. What they do. Very kind to me. They could have real. You know when I look back at it. They could have really hurt me yeah and they didn't they just to teach you a lesson. They want to do what the guards I think made him do, which is get me out of there well, yeah yeah, and so I may never discuss, but when I came back and lifted the guards- and I said guys want me out of here. That's why they want you out. I had heard them my ass. An hour
I was just there the reagan error in California, your hip it! Yet I was so embarrassed by me just like so very anna I was the guy they wanted right. Not, then you were just sort of basing your, you're your ideology and on the young, the hippies in that year, the guys doing the jerry, Rubin and charge them, and do this good, stuff right living alight and really try to fight this link. Ok, so then, get your ass kicked as like a juvenile prison. The side I'm going to go to l, a leave, the juvenile hall. Okay, I drive down the freeway, I get off at highland blvd I get off at highland as a motor on highland Bulwana one drive around passed. The hollywood bowl go into the first motel too expensive. Amid the right lane. I can't go straight with attract was going to have to go the right on the highland right, so the right out, the high, let see another vacancy sign go in that I could afford was twenty four twenty five thousand.
Yeah, that was the hollywood landmarks. Alright check. In now, it's probably twelve third yeah I've been beat up. I don't have a job right. I've just come from a jail, he got acid. I got acid. I go to my my a deck. It's got to it's hotel, california, yeah! It's two stories around the swimming sure everybody's got a balcony, go to the balcony, a drop some acid. I hear a screaming I've just come from jail, unlike this issue on a white horse seeing the world right. Oh, my god is a girl. Getting rape than it did. I put on my cape yet run down to the pool their separate. The two via the girl punches me they're, making love she have this janet job, I'm fine. In the morning. I find that your generous java and she city with all these rock icons. Would you like twenty twenty one
I would say, twenty one. Twenty two, okay, three would be my guess. If a little older had years on her old soul, a wholesale very old so that she sitting at the pool with she stood with the chambers brothers really and the Jimi hendrix and got a Paul Rothschild who produced the doors grape producer Bobby Neuwirth is about don't road manager of focusing area there, I'll just hang out he had so this was the place This was sort of guys, like the eight some retain drugs, is very made, his daringly right, others, who sort of the two years couple years in their order, the place she introduces me to Jimmy yeah- oh yes, the guy I told you about last night I hit too, I get embarrassed barrel, but I also think, oh my god, I've just hit as a pharmacist, the greatest customer base in the entire world and catching as it. As you know, what any of you happen to like the area the. So maybe you too
three weeks and the living there, its body to make some money and do well get friendly with everyone. They became customers right, but a? U trip with Jimmy who'd. You neighbors brothers. The chambers brothers' yeah, I don't I mean it may have been in the place with him, but yeah good. Are you getting high with Jared? I never I never sold already, don't know if you took it or not. Okay may have she was a boozer. Her her road manager John lived there with her and he was very protective of her because she was already spiraling, I bet and and but like well. That's the other question I mean you know, there's a like. The story is a good story, but, like you know, there's the dark. Side of it. Did you feel that at all you were just why not another at all? I don't think any of one of the things I talk about in the book is, none of us had any thought of consequences for anything, but was their dope around with people shooting dope. I don't know of.
If you know you're not around you yeah, but when no one had cut writers, sure being drunk was funny bright and fun yeah sex. There was no hiv yeah, so oops free sex ever showed everyone's getting clap every other week did Mary had pills. We already know that there are two hundred crabs and judge it. It's an old school idea, the guys you've got your glade, the sixties and seventies right yeah. Well, you just go the road kit. Everybody had a road kit with, if the biotics and alex in an eight a two hundred, and I think, what's good the crabs, yeah prepared, and so one day after a couple of weeks and one of them said Jimi hendrix James brother said to me
if the partner joey the drug to your pharmacist partner yeah, we come from buffalo with me, but that's all you're doing you're really talking to ok, and I said what are you guys do for a living other than that and we said nothing and they said you're jewish and we said yeah that you should be a manager, makes that stuff right and we had a friend and management who managed, as a group called the left bank walk away. Renee TAT had been fraternity. Brother college and when he got out of college, you got hired at this company yeah that had so. We had a front, we said yeah. We even have a friend that he'd probably give us cards yeah and If a cart really and them they alice- was living lester chambers basement bosco per year and the less their cave thou assistance that we found the jew who manage it but if we want this was like you know in terms of like this was actually don t you go in him, but not really. Knowing anything about the music is not knowing anything about show business and it sort of a pin
time in you, They can movies in every everything. Shifting that the business is shifting. So there's a window is no real business ripe. As the whole model, had broken the park as the old guys didn't know how to sell, and you know I looked back at like an alice poster when we headlined at seventy two madison square garden for two dollars. Fifty cents ticket was the biggest ticket. Nobody, but that was the numbers and wasn't, I believe, that's what I mean it wasn't a business. There were no business people in it. What you only langley company, touring busy. I get it. I get it, but the managers weren't real, so that the two, businesses are primarily, nobody can make a big bill. So we can sell records, was all about selling workers rights so so you meet alison. Is he with, for example, that time recording or no the next week he starts with french up after you signed him, at your sign him. Never we never side we still have inside. We agree to work together. You have no com, You just have a partner. Now the drugs dealing did succeed,
eventuality eventually end cause people slowly getting arrested right. So we stopped and we sit down with Alice my partner- and I tell us we gotta get to is now, but he was a boozer radio rising. I haven't the drugs old school yell school booze at that time when you meet hours in you're getting into management. So because, like it seems to me that because I've never interviewed a manager. I've had many I've had three, understand what they do. We, I understand personal management, but the the than the notion of getting into? It? Is a business and then you'll what your job is. I think you sort of set some standard z, you sort of invented something in terms of rock management was because I was there was not an easy sell at the beginning right, What did you do you had this guy? What compelled you did to stay with Alice cooper? Who is good? You know your kind of off grid in terms of what he wants to do him. How you want to do it, I'm off the grid was great. For me. It was a front yet
I you know, I have a drug eg data protection for your drug sale and decided not to do it. We we gotta get serious and we you know we Alice is a realist. I'm a realist. We, the show, was not great mia. It it to drive people away. What was he doing initially when you saw him? What was the show they were doing and you know with us a minute and a half song would have three hundred changes in it. Tell me to day to day marla more more more up to date do their duty duty to date with one of his own. Yet it had one album out when you met him, nothing no other listed They do it a practice based- and I will I goaded- venice tear bruce miss lenny, Bruce miss. He opens for the doors and mps the room.
Many early to Lenny was dead. The Lenny bruce misused to run at venice, be out. Ok at a place called the kaleidoscope. Every year here, Jim Morrison was headlines that area Alice. On as an opening act and water the room. Everybody work that before the doors they need wait for the door. Everybody walked up the only one, in a room were made, for example, my partner and three or four other people. Do you like frank? really got to know he signed them that day with a magic or their three hours there. He added that way, but that internal, he thought he was sitting at the managing. Oh yeah, and record color. You don't know that I was gonna managing our really allison, the next day, oh by the way we gotta manager between what we talk to you, three is here and now that relationship was in great right. The dead, the them
who had the rights got? It was horrible. It was just it's and it's one of those horrible stories in life that you just like. Why what happened? I I can't tell you one hundred per cent. What happened yeah cause- I don't think we'll ever really know, but there's the facts that we know yeah, that alice's. Hero was frank, Zappa yeah and hence the many changes in the song is exactly air and frank zappa told Alice. He had made a label deal, yeah warner brothers records yeah and he could sign him to two albums and he signed Alice wilder. Fischer leap could be the only person in the world and no wild beauty. I had that records music yeah he go Albury go very go route, poo, poo, poo and a picture of his mother's starving to death and recover
I loved, while men, but europe lived an insane asylum and was more than musician did you re actually live in it, as did vetoes girls it together, outrageously, who, and musicians or singers or writers. They were groupies who were fantastic, yet the ngos why tyrants? Yet miss in the realm of miss christina miss some. What do they do that stage? it's like they gave AG his look. They gave both the look they they took Alice too, as a thrift store, whether we bought by the pound ice capades, all outfits dresses. Metallic dresses alice over their eyes were paid out. So they knew again they knew by someone reported that they were known till. I got to go shopping with that. Every area make do you make of cook for you. They were the great,
Greg really. So when the stooges were out here in the in the late sixties and early seventies, get any of the guys would ask any of the pop stars of that era, about the details and you'd get a smile. Oh yeah they're really really cool, so they got signed to the label and it was weird because including Alice, really really headed at any audience at all. Yeah had anything that anybody like we can quite figured out twenty. We showed for the four, album, we've never done an album malice or I at a whitney studios in burbank, go on record for franks, wrapper, yeah, Alice's, hero, yeah and Frank's brother is, there Frank comes in and he says this is my brother a come back at five and pick up the record okay, so we don't really they leave and they don't producer, just the ending and the groups rehearsing. Ah, they think they're rehearsing. No one ever says, stop or starter frank, comes back at five o'clock and says great man, album's done really, and that was the first album huh it's if you listen to it
for this there s really just like us, a rehearsal of guys, you didn't have songs, are now. I gotta go back and listen to a pretty sure. You re its wild and an you're like what the fuck, because we didn't know enough. We just thought it was you really nothing about that? We thought it was really weird duty that he didn't spend five minutes in the suit but he never wanted to hear the songs, huh word song for now as it will disillusioned, and we are not really so. We try and make it more try to go on. I end up going through I noted get him on the John Lennon Festal. When I voted to David Briggs, who managed neo young produce new young, I tell him how he did it. This is how you do out. I should really should not know you,
he writes. All you listened to the songs you shit. Would you do that for, and he said, yeah of course yeah. So I didn't even tell their company when, with David Briggs, that was the second album yeah and they wouldn't use his tapes. They took the rehearsal tapes from David Briggs made that easy action really and I none of us could figure out what what's going on Frank did yep. Not none of us could figure out. What's going on first album sold, maybe three hundred copies yeah second out may be sold a hundred and fifty copies. Now I realize that I gotta do this without the record company, you got it it into your own hands again got so I sit down with Alice and who makes the best records. Yeah guess who the oh really, american woman, the guess who, from canada for us those are the best radio records you could get and you to remember at where Alice's a group that doesn't even think about writing music uh huh. It's theatrical that salvador dali, there's no such thing as a
and a half minutes all right. So we should. That is an artist will. He said that is. Ok. Let's forget who you are How do we get a number one record? What are the best number one record and whose whose it and I don't pleased I manage burdens? Burton if you listening, don't take the garden raw malaysia, whose an insect efficient artist who's, not the beatles who gets number one records all the time. The beatles we get extra sure guess who, who is a? Nobody knows who they are, but you are imagined them locked up, but every record goes to number one right that they gotta be some genius involved with this group, because there nobody was american woman and it was not as before by five or six yea. I had like five six jack yan yeah and I look on the back of record as says Jack Richardson, air nimbus, nine I get on a plane go to draw up the air with my point, No, we sit in the office. Take some acid and say we want me jack, Richardson, act doesn't wanted, you know, he's heard heat,
he's found that were in the waiting room. They ve said Alice cooper, he's called What two brothers, the last thing he wants the desirable yet, but this new kid comes in bob hazard. First, they work and jackson go. Get those kids in the office add here that your first job here- We got. We hook bob into it. Oh yeah, yet active in doing so. We, when we did our first record with bob the first track, was eighteen, really that's a third alice cooper record. That's the first record we do with bob is right and I'm up in canada doing this John lennon thing and I start hearing about canadian com that is a canadian content rule. The canadian radio stations have to play a certain amount of records and tv stations, half the use canadian product. Ah shit, we qualify
So I find out who the program director is on the biggest station in canada. She called w yeah. I am sort of controlling John lennon. At this point. You are yeah cause, I'm doing a festival with them called the toronto pop but he was at the only real relationship you had with him the first one that the plastic ono band never did. Okay, and so I said, listen I think I'd probably get you exclusives on the concert, but you got to play this record for me. They play tina to hit smash phone to light up. I call herbie yet to tell me this fantastic got, it record, he said get it off the air sue. You immediately. That's a guy at warner, that's a guy who own french as labour rights so I go to waters, yeah kleiber, chemo clive. She killed w
we're the number one wreckage that your kitty, that's the biggest station in the world for breakout records. Here I said: yeah we don't have any records pressed, I called her, but he said he doesn't want us to put the record. I said you kidding me who did I said, jack jack. Richard We try to work with jack richardson for three years at war. Is you know how much money we ve Orford said? I got it. He stole money from somebody else's recording, but I was the dew refer this. Let us We at the record goes the number one pranks. Pursues warner brothers for putting the record out no shit yeah and had to stop and deceased the record. I don't wanna get too complicated here, but what we discovered is that it's basically the producers Warner brothers gave zapper and his manager millions of dollars a year. To cite three artist to albums each area. The only way that frank, like our first album course, six thousand dollars thrice the only way, frank whatever
they give us any of those millions of dollars is, if he made so If we sold a lot a record right, could then we get royalties right? we don't sell any records. He keeps all the money. Is the producers on broadway so as a cash grab guy and all of a sudden? So if we want the court that the label change like twelve times on that record- and we ended up in court for five years straight because we got a number one record. That's amazing! So he He signed these guys it we're just freaks and he's like what no, these guys. You got no knowing where in an ongoing work, will have you anything about. Fucking show business Joe biz but you earned it for you yeah. That was a pivotal turning point as a negotiator and somebody who instinctive we knew how to you know, do a deal on the fly. For you to say what guy I knew I can set you up with the lending festival you have for an exclusive. If you play this and they're like yeah and people,
that right in the same with as ran right out, you charm that guy, you know I'd. No, it's going to happen. I think I did so. We took I'm gonna, take it to the new york here. We played max's kansas city without with Alice, and I thought it was just a magic and he saw two got it. Ok, so wasn't like that afternoon it off now: don't you know it was his united. Normally at its first they held that you're. So using new guy and you're saying like we got the next thing, this is the next big thing I can. You got hours, you gotta hit record, so your ear to ear your movie and what happens that next time, site. I want to see if I had anything to do with it, if any oh, if the evil, your skill did, you actually have a skilled is, and I actually have any skills that take a yes it. So so they can grow up. I was up in canada through in the jungle anything
what was your relationship with John and a little now I was. It was to a fellow who, on the biggest department, store in england, etons departments near got the right to do this concert with John learn. I have no idea why, but I've never done anything, and I did he do that, and I had a friend who had a fur and who thought I was knew what I was doing collect. I told manager and hollywood here and And what would you say you are a promoter whether they brought me. It is the young talent coordinator and was it how what was John like that point, my didn't really get them. How rarely a little bit like that? I set him up with a fellow rabbi, fine work and they did the bed in montreal. That was saying. I leave you set him up with that guy like at what what what did find we have to do with a lead in fine bird. Was he a hippie rabbi? Rabbi was a hippie rabbi yet who
if doing an album on vanguard records. It was lucrative, promote his album cut by where was that was a klezmer music with pop music for a rabbi that way, everybody's got a dream everybody's, so he's the one that that that helped put together the bed in as a protest as approach and there's a famous picture. I so that's interesting sites I so to see. If you have a skill set, you sign ho and Murray willie are we trying to challenges that have now been whom I put you after I love the voice, for the voice was where'd. You hear that you're in canada, Josie Mae added canadians die ass. You I remember her bowser hale. She wasn't a canadian store at that time. He was a gym teacher, Nova, scotia and she sang the stream clouds on
where'd. You hear Robert yeah and was on a on a summer replacement show and that this fellow David Briggs who is producing neil young, had worked on in canada and it became a big hit in canada and looked like it was about to be a hit in America Oha which has thornton ago, and he said you should another great client should get. This So do I said you know. Let me see what I can do here, but she was like kind of not conservative, but not europe. A power server she was the opposite of Alice. She was a pure instrument, aha with no frills and thrilled. My folk tradition, yet away from a focus on cars. I remember from when I was a kid. What was her big hits snowboard now. Is it and put your hand in hand? Oh right and then she had a candy log and so on. It was very big so this was nineteen. Seventy seventy one, seventy one, bring it down here, brigadier new allay we do a big should new york and allay central park.
Who you book in or with what? What is the work of those aid record companies were very powerful, piazza very different thing at the ethics of gigantic, so the your name, sir John Reid, who is chairman of VM. I love danny. Ah, so he brought people from all over the world into sierra, and I put the shows together, who was on the shouts just her springsteen and her new york. It was frustration. These first show it was he just playing guitar d of the band. He had a ban, yet the caf called me asked me if I'd put them on the show, he did nothing. Fifteen minutes the open. How was it it was weird I started drizzling and without doors a half I had to try and get him often, but did you did you see the magic there? Even then? I I you know music's never been my thing. However, I have just not do so. I magic as a I don't let that interfere with by music. Business ha. You were just innate exiles, weird, I know but You know where, after Alice here
in Anne Marie I took a couple of icons on it: the groucho in raquel graduate marks and raquel welch cars as a personal manager. Just because it was hacking did not. They asked me to and- He asked you to have this gradual fight, arguing I verily with Alice what they got, friendly way where new york and l a that watch t v together and stuff. They just got really gradual, all the old guys, jack, benny and carson. They all love Dallas, because they saw him as vaudeville or they did so they got it. They got it completely like when we took george benny george burns to see als get hung on stage when Alex came off ga two, oh yeah, I saw charlie- do that in chicago at thirty eight yeah, so Alice has this weird relationship with these old comedian. I kept walking into graduate house for the first time and Alice's in bed with groucho and they're, both wearing mickey mouse ears that say groucho yeah.
And so he's living out here in l, a analysis hanging out with groucho and in jack benny likes him. So you you see these guys. You see a good benny and all these guys. That was allowed those much more than me, but that must have been a thrill like you were created from how sweaty my armpits gun I started to learn, not the where green shirts are really here. Always boys black someone grow. Do approaches, you don't have a complete groupie yeah, oh yet we gotta be a fanned so I feel that to roger I could never. I couldn't even say anything to him. I tried to go at the said. I never could get words out with a magic of it. I can't get the word. Barks right, it's a! U r, grouchy or march brothers did know much about it. At this point, you daddy's, though, other so at this point, what scratch your doing, a gradual, is doing nothing to talk, she's popular Carson shown stuff right. Yeah not really did that. Our money in m did carnegie hall gradual files here. But what I did was get the show back on the air which one I helped you
Yeah. You bet your life that your life was all actors yeah, so they all were sag members right. So, in order to get it back into syndication, they had to give reduced rates. So as negotiations with the estates, aha to get reduced rates, no kidding. That's that other show get back on the air. How long did it stay on the air? Not that long? I dunno. How old was he was? He was old, he was he was. It was funny. There was a girl in his life named aaron for aaron, something yeah and when she was in she was actually the manager she's, the one who hired me right when she was in the room. He was you know tall and lucid. When she'd leave the blue room, he gets oh really not to lose so that way. So you say, grouchy says: what can you do for me and you say why? What what do we got? There were no wasn't that she said and done we run out of money for a second shift under says. We have that we have the generator money to take care of him. So I looked at the world in the tv shows see that was it that was
possible yeah, and would you do for raquel welch and will kill. I put together song and dance act. She was you know she was very honest with I really like her a lot. She was raising two children of their own and realized that she was a aging sex, goddess, yeah and needed to make a living and, as you know, if there was a way to do it and it seemed that obvious highway that Ann Margaret had developed at that time for vegas yeah. Aha, so that's what I didn't put together did it work? Yes, work right. We signed long term it's palace was the first h b, o music, special or reco welsh live in vegas. Now Qin CE negotiated at two yellows very fodder here at Michael Fuchs, one each was preventing h, b, o for time warner right and was very small company, and the only thing that was really working on pay tv was pornography here. So I would always pitch him an alice cooper concert or a blondie.
Yeah teddy pentagon's. I just want porno leave me alone fuchs. Would you wanna porn that I said what about re? Killing very local dress should see through reactor at that. And that was before I was at the very beginning, because he eventually kind of invented the comedy special, the our colonies battling with Robert Klein. Without us too. Did you our way? You know I do. I know that you talked about it in the film and I'm sure you do in the book the the myths the g of hours in the animals and the chickens in the by I mean I guess it's ozzie, who bit the head off a chicken, but what you always got, the credit for it yeah they we did it at the toronto festival withdrawn, Lena yeah. We threw a trick. I threw a chicken a bunch they just because where'd you get the chicken, it was a feral chicken. But you're sweating, backstage really here a feral chicken in toronto. It was weird those five or six of them back there, a really her any just
one ounce de la roulette say we were using feathers at the end of the show. We used to rip open a feather, pillow and add C your two on it and it made like snow. Know right. So then they get a chicken and what happened. He threw it out to the audience the audience rip. The report in the next. The paper said that alice bit the head or for the chicken, and that was then end. You're like this is the best thing this ever happened to us. We had the s pc aid. Every year we mayors, we had everybody bitch and when he just melted way, milk that we still milk the interior and his days. You got more or need more kind of macabre right. You know what I think you know he became better at what he did as a showman as a showman, we became better storytellers. Aha Writers billion dollar babies is a big record and right that was In then angle there was a big work. A billion dollar babies are bigger, killer, YAP killers. Just like you know what you're saying to me is interesting, because I was at, I taught
in briefly. Maybe I even saw you: where did you were you ever conan with him when he did the er? He had the cane. You know he had. He did ha paddled either. You know- and I talked to him because I e- I think we had talked about doing one of these before and I just met him briefly, but you know the whole sort of like you know, kind of vaudevillian. You know he's got the hat top hat and cane, like you know, he's sort of Jeanne into this It was a very self aware thing he was doing. You know. I guess that yeah me: how are these euro dry? Seventy sit out yet so, like you know, he's got. You know, he's sort of like on the song and dance from it. Oh yeah yeah. I like those dudes, because I feel like that way with Dylan too I. I really think that, as doing is just going to sort of like in a hotel on the road somewhere, because he doesn't want to get off the red while it is, but if there is a sort of like the armature door, a massage as I do how the story if they were talking- and he said you know the only time- that a really comfortable, where I know exactly what I'm doing here the hour and a half when I'm on stage right, that's the time is ripe for me that
like meditating, I can hear I can see that in its cause, you're completely present. It's your it's your you have complete. True, the environment at your world. It is world said he loved at the moment and he made emery a star. How do I mean she was really good so and and good techniques, but also I got her in a picture with John lennon and Harry Nielsen and Alice cooper and micky Dolenz at a time when she needed to be made contemporary of bright, she could drop one way or the other right. You know she could make her hip yeah yeah, so we had to make her hip and that opened up the midnight. Special rolling stone. Hovel shows our shoes and so what I would like at that time when he hang out at the tube door, dang and anna letter, which they tat is a little bit place called rice, which is where the house the blues oh yeah. What I've got an active across from the common rainbow gigantic shirt?
so that was the beginning of the rainbow honour of right. Upstairs at the rainbow there was the vampire lounging, o er, Alison John linen and harry Oh really, never they remained always our own that there were there every night there were there every single, and who were the club owners and that you must hetero, mario and elmer. Still he asked a moment here: Marius dorani still in ninety two. Ninety three: there were policemen from chicago, supposedly capone's, bagman, ah big cigars period. So they were connected got yet there was there. A lot of that here not allow president doesn't feel There has been a new yorkers chicago. He wasn't really part of right room, just great character than writer I can assure you that we could be wearing only aren't you la sugar ray. I know a great, thereby feathers, and they really took care of everybody. They did.
I mean when I was the doorman at the comedy store in the eighties. You know the the rainbow was still pretty much like a place where you could go eat in a way like their pasta, yeah yeah I used to go. There were canisters, sometimes used to hold court up. There kind of held it's own as the metal place of the heart and still does yeah Lemmy was there everyday, but then you get involved with the r and b acts yeah. I loved the my passion in music as rb teddy pendergrass, wake up everybody, Harold melvin that was sort of my song, yeah and also it was you know it really fit my air writing it. On the white horse, the jew and the white. I have saved the date of rights gag you so that you want to justice for them, entertainer. Engage you have to fight Fight for thy had spent pretty good, they came. Who is well? How do you mean tat? He met teddy through goddard. Lieber said who is ahead of CBS here, the executor of,
The marks of the state weird everyone's cannot yet having now. How does he's got a friend who knows what eddie steady and nobody at that point or no teddy adjust the power. Movin was gigantic teddy had after, but what I would say before that after all What, through my end, murray thing with Alison beggar thy decided. You know now that I know I shouldn't know what to do. I only want to deal with artist who also know what to do. Then a vision for the day off that have been vetted already, that have been successful, right and still survive He didn't want to start anyone alright, so my criteria was a number one record right and that's what you want it yeah I o are also wooden with someone who has seasoned deer who, who had been vetted, who thought he could take the heat. Right and tat. He was a guy. Teddy was the first one and did you learn your number one record?
yeah, he had the mourn. When I went to see him haha, it was his first solar record and I went to see if the manager- and there was like every jewish manager in the world waiting for me,
So I just left. I never. I never went after signing anyone. He added. He would always call me here. So I didn't go and then he called me and asked me how it went, and I told him that you know there were plenty of competent managers waiting to see him that he be okay here he said no! No. This is an important asset to me. I think it can be really long term and no york's than the career. Please go meet him, oh yeah, so I had to go back down in the decider of going down. I'm going to be make sure that this is the last time I have to go, see him yeah, and that was pretty outrageous. I mean it was a ring of truth in it, but I went up to his apartment and a sinless man, sorry to take up your time and that very few things that I'm sure of in life, as one of the things I'm sure of is that you have no idea how to differentiate between seven great jewish managers, telling you what they're going to do for you there's no way. I don't want to be the eighth right. So here's what I know I can get higher than you yeah I can get drunk or then you
I got more beautiful women than you and when you collapse and this cash in your pocket I'll be there to take the cash out and make sure nobody steals it, and he just looked at me like I was gone. I expected he'd throw me out of the place right and he said okay, what are we meeting and it was like, oh shit, so we actually met two weeks later in new york and in a two bedroom suite near and he went at it. For did we go at it and the marriage until he died. I actually never would have told the story, except in his biography, which blew my michael's teddy was the proudest man I've ever met. I looked at it. I tell you it's like I. I can't even describe her closer became too, but in the book he talks about how this little white kid from jewish give motion. So he asked It smoked dragon label. That was you. Those with. You might go on it. You know
brought through another couple of hit records of worms who a bunch of hit records, with the thing that we did it by the both of us were proudest of. Is that what I didn't realize it black. Artists were really being treated differently than white artists are having called the chitlin circuit, the asher, and them it really. It really existed was a real, the actors, comics vil yeah, with real people and real guns and real consequences, and we broke it, but we know his last match got shot to death. What do you mean he broke it like you, you rebooted in which means what which
there's no more children circuit out, so they had a hold on the black audience and they had a monopoly on the van they hadn't what they had as a monopoly on the black artist who were successful. So if you are a teddy and you came into a bat move here, as a white orders dear, you would make your choice of who promoted your show bright, based on how much money someone gave you yeah and how professionally they were doing the show and the production bay they could give to your audience to make you look at it in the children circuit. If you went to bed room, you had to deal with, one promoter he paid you whatever. He wanted to pay you if he paid if he paid you may have provided whatever services he felt like providing you, you didn't send the rider right. You got what he wanted to give you so my first day with teddy, where I didn't know this existed, these people from the holiday inn showed up with a shoe or microphone system in an eight thousand seat hall fuses, don't know, I mean assure microphones system is something use. Maybe
hundred and fifty people ah misery. They should we gotta, have it back in an hour at ten minutes were back on again at the holiday inn and we had seven thousand people in the hall it was a poor guy, a promoter or a gangster who lives right, got some friends who read through the grass them for an hour and a half and waiting get paid. And when I went to teddy wasn't surprised so how'd you get the money, we didn't. He if you ever have to fight for money, I got a ring from the guy. That's as good as I could do that teddy and you know it didn't affect him in on it. So I you know can't do that. I can't I can't do this. Isn't that what I do so I can. If we can break it, sad, I won't tell me, is less manage we got shot. The death is a nice time varied that each time we take to tell me the fact that the fact that it takes a lot tells or how'd you break it. We did some shows. Why promoters they picketed we degrading sitting who picketed
The black promoters association. There was a very organised. The children circuit was very organ, so, like promoters, association picketed. Promoters picketed, knowing that they were treating artist badly. They didn't think work as they were getting hit records they had their rented cadillacs. Maybe just eddying get paid it's all in the eye. The perceived I said you know it's not like he saying that cost us as much an exact ratio so the term it's all questionable stuff. So once you success with the right promoters, and they saw what happened. Is we got we? We did the shows we got picketed, it got pretty heavier people show up at my office. I had a couple of incidents happen. What year had the things you don't like to talk about here? Cause people still alive- and we finally made a deal- and they sure I was serious- and I was happy- some other acts were sort of jumping aboard earth. When that fire then went and booked the with a white promoter,
Do you grow so you made that pie didn't do it, but I saw they did so. Their system was starting to crumble right, so they came in and we talked story and they tried to get very heavy with me and I I basically said: listen what you see is me my mother's dead, my father's that I don't have kids and have a wife. I don't even have a mortgage, a the I could buy you the bullet. Please put it in my brain here cause I got nobody who loves me. All I do is work a miserable fucking guy and I'll pay you to kill me. So, if that's really You wanna do: let's do it you, if you want to do some business of happy to do that, and likewise the unique approach, a k place here, just killed. Mackay may affect that exact that he got up and we worked out a deal on the deal, They were very honourable too, and I was very honourable too. Was that a thumb if a building
was owned by an institution like the greek theater near was owned by the need by the city. Yeah radio city was owned by someone yeah, and then that promoter had the right to do the show, and we would force them to give a percentage of the show and to the promote the black promoters association right. If it was an open promotion mere we would use our promoters and force them to be fifty fifty partners with the blacks most association, yet so they kept their money yeah they kept their pride. Good name went on it yeah we got to deal with people who paid us mia and provided the services we need and any probably sort of at tampered with. An orthodox cowboys. Nobody was aware nobody was thrilled, but everybody was making a lot of money right that way.
But yeah it'd probably push. Some of those guys back were basically pimps for showbiz, correct right, oh good, and I stayed very friendly with most of the black promoters near me. Still to this day, yeah. We actually worked it out as gentlemen, and I was really rests with the way they stuck to their word an hour and we were able to really make the nobody got hurt near as the artist got everything they should have gone right. The two promoters who basically promoters for the most part, have to be criminals to make money here, cause the artist squeezes so hard that, if their addis they can't make anything yet so they each to care for their what they steal. Rats oclock fur for act yeah and so and one of the black acts did you work with luther Vandross, Stephanie mills, ben Vereen, rick James as a manager yeah no kidding a winner to an african period where I just load magic, fleshy king sunny day
Did you do that? First, that the big attempted the american record would skins any day tried, it was called juju pop yeah. I remember I tried really hard yeah yeah didn't take, couldn't get it across runaway, but one of my times I wasn't too happy about my job. I just could not get. I couldn't get anybody to buy and yet only colleges fear many people would buy it, and but he was beautiful man really elegant, beautiful man and it's the flight gypsy kings which we're sure you did that while so at this point you know: do you have a big operation? Yeah bet, sixty people maybe doing a lot of movies lot. I always
wanted to what's managers, involvement and move, because how is the added that structure? How will those deal structured? What I did what I had a film company called island alive. We were the first in the path for me making movies, which, like everything else, was protecting the artist right. So I did six alan rudolf movies. I did what was interesting move yet use may travel in mind those to those kind of difficult movies with clodagh scotty we did l naughty. We did not making sense. So these are the that was really pre. Independent fill me with anniversary year, the first than redistributed financed and produce through the first independent filled company. Africa was island alive, but that was not really diamond island. There was a joint venture of Chris black on myself haha. He did not making sense, that's a big movie, none of them were big. None of them did over. I think our biggest movies was kisses. Spider. Woman did maybe four million dollars. Now
really that's it better, because they're challenging movies nuts are baking, Alan rudolph. You have to go further north. The ram everything choose me in college, and now I had the nickelodeon in Boston. I get a rt theory a movie. It is a good one hundred and ninety thousand dollars David reich Keith. Harry my catered it out of my truck really so you're onset and teddy on the soundtrack it a really interesting story of how move why that movie exists and why tat is on the soundtrack. This is all that movie was five years of work to get teddy money after an accident, and one thing lead to another one coupon with
index coupon which later and the last coupon was altitude of calling me up and two years after he'd written written this script. For me of a thing called choose me luther wrote. The song we needed to make believe teddy was going to do a soundtrack. We all thought he was going to die, but I had someone who would give them a million dollars for his family. If we could pretend he was going to do a soundtrack aha, so I went to luther and asked him to sing a song. Making himself
I like teddy, really need a row, choose me and made himself sound like teddy on it. I went to Alan rudolph with the slogan I said you need to write me. A script of a movie that will never get made, but I have to put in a file somewhere to protect. The sky is going to give me a million dollars for teddy, who needs it. Yeah and so Allen wrote the script. Luther did the song that a year and a half later and rudolph called me up and he said his ship. I need a favor. I said anything for you out anything to I want to make the movie. I said you gotta, be kidding me and I had just won the con film festival with the duelist, which was my first movie ridley Scott's first movie as ally, films, air and I said you can reach and not me, he told me I got a coupon I want to make so I called chris Blackwell who had a reputation for being a very bad guy yeah, and I said I know, you're the devil. I know you've always wanted to be in business with me. Give me a million bucks to do this movie
did, you will not get the soundtrack too. Could I saw that already had he had erected couplet you and that's? How we form thy love that was a good deal at the deauville deal with the devil. Now Alan rudolf was was almonds, protegee right, almost protegee. We had done. He did all my music videos me I'd love done. I've won my artist always be the first to use new techno ear, so we did fit music videos before mtv Allen did enforce. We did numb video albums before there were discs with blondie. We did the first h b, o special with Vakil whenever, the new technology of additive way around didn't do that when I was another guy, but Allen did almost all of our stuff directing them, and then we did a fabulous documentary with g, gordon, Liddy and timid, lyric the area when they were touring every turn? Engage we put him on to earn film the tour. Oh you did. You created that georgia to hilarious, though he took it- god. Oh my
guy resided in cod? Would did you know they? Were you friends what leary before now another islands, one about the project in we all love down for doing that as for Sophia, yet, oh, my as I said earlier, in the dual as you did. That would really scott you, those first movie now one eddie do I imagine tat he had the accident. That was a tremendous turning point for you personally like what what what what did you say? you bet your life. As you are. You ended up. Having problems are eventually right. I think that it definitely put a damper on what I do for a living took a lot of the joy at what he did for a living. I started seeing the endings instead of the beginnings in the middle when I'd work on a four on an artist, a project thea, so that port also having a friend go. That way was just quadriplegia not able to stop, and we did it to himself. What were you shoot you
drunken yeah, she's, cracked, two or three cars of that week- and you know just who is spirally, and he can stop that. I just couldn't stop everything was gone. Government near her is that some here Well, what do you? What did you earn? Like? You know, looking at the cars I know I I we can talk about how you built this relationship with mike myers and when you became this sort of like different to force. You know for for people like what what did you learn about artists that that you know that that, from that frustration of not being able to, I don't know if I learned so much about it from that. From that what I mean one of the things that then,
I always knew about artists net. It's usually they drive is usually driven by holes rather than strength. That is usually young. Fear of the drives them on really, I don't think I've any friend who visit successful, whose an actor whose over forty or fifty, who really think she's never gonna, get another all right and really thinks it fear drives them on, and I think part of that is, but it can't be desperation, not desperation, writer right living in that fears on a hot so that it becomes on an opposite right now, there's the fear of failure in the field of not as and when I try and say in my talks with every one of my biggest take away from everything at the forty years. Do is it you're going to
you can hit, the high everybody's gonna die so go for it, don't be scared. What have you fail, whether you fail you when you gonna die here, you die I would only then the morbid waked, but you know yeah, no coral. So that's the one thing that that's the biggest fear is accepting that yeah. So you're saying you know, accept this and then all the rest of it's easy. I put it into perspective. Yeah put it in perspective and- and you know, don't be- that person who's head, as on the pillow in the last twenty four hours a day, I wish I had oh, I should have. I wish I had done it doesn't matter you gonna die. Aha, do what you want to do right. Yeah and the bachelor. That's what I'd do to really try drain it all my oars. You know more isotopes. My eyes when I started with an mostly
One thing in our relationship is not how much you pay me, but you are giving me the ability to fail. I have to be able fail and safely If you that's your pitch, that's as good as ea kill me pit yeah you gotta be able to, but you have to be able to fail right where I can't do anything good so that and also puts you in a position not to be a fucking liar exactly right, but a bitch being honest right at the beginning, yeah, you know, I don't do contracts yeah, I tried be really out at all. If you are not happy with make or I'm not happy with you, we should be working together that you have the court why are there? No us who throwing rightly just call a guy called I'm your friend call up until you know it's not working for me anymore, The fact is that we work with didn't work with any actual right. Never really am most amusing movie. So is music and film production is really society built relationship with MIKE. Why. My may move, you know, like was amazing MIKE Mike myers MIKE was one of those
and you know I am. I always in my business tried to be brutally honest even to sort of a floor mia. And I used to always tell my artist. You know if you want to know I can get you know in a second right. You want it. Yes, I can never tell you how long it's going to take right right, but I'll stay auditability yeah. So we got this call to do. Wayne's world. Ok call came in about two months before the the actual filming date for Alice to do. I was a music thing, yeah that near music thing or act in it for about eleven seconds there and then the end credit song which calls out and it was school's out in both places. So I asked if we could do our new song, because in those days soundtracks were very significant radio right. If you could go to radio that, with a soundtrack record, you had a good chance of getting a hit and really yeah, as always, your nose and saturday night features and not all rocky.
Although in even if it wasn't a heavy on the record, so you get them, you get that not much. Geek did radio place right as the hardest gathered. Here, though, she had a chance to see so on I sat down says that you know they won't. Let us do the new song to he got two choices. We can either just agree to do school's out or I can fuck him over, which I think is the thing to do. I don't think they'll have time to replace you, but you may be put out of the movie. If I tell him the truth, narrow get someone else and I'll take the heat I'll go into the engine What you said do whatever you think is right person I wanted that was he willing to lose it yet couldn't kill it right. He doesn't care, he will never fail. That's the best position is I couldn't care less? That's what I, a failure never ever wanted he ever right. I really even tell you right, you don't know
forty doesn't have a computer. He doesn't carry. Lets me. Yeah plays golf yet plays golf. So about a week before the movie. I asked for a meeting with MIKE and I going to see him and I said: listen. I don't want to be that hollywood guy yeah and I said, but I do want you to know. I lie to your production people and we're not going to do this. We're not gonna. Let you use that song ear or Alice. Unless you give us the new song. I said absolutely not. I told you that I didn't listen. Just listen to him till he's in the movie eleven seconds. No one's going to know a place yeah, let him do the new sog for eleven seconds and I'll. Let you put schools out on the end credits, which is what you really care about, and we made the so we got our song in the thing and then about their work. Yeah, oh yeah were great. The record wasn't a hit, but it got us into the twenties here. It wouldn't have gone anywhere right in the movie, the new song and he got schooled out who had happy air and then about a year and a half later that he was in molly at the four at a hotel where a microwave here, so I got a
them invited him down for actually for ridiculous luau with low whistle versus the load and honest schwartz. They gonna think would be gilbert These were these guys. I remember that in the movie, so you've moved away from l a and they moved him out and that's where you live, you're still young and you just liked having people over a joy, cooking and entertaining you fly people down they point out there who do light or whoever is, I think, a planet hollywood. Opening ok now is ass. It come over her priorities where I saw the ok so he's in metal. He doesn't believe nobody comes over there all there, and they all leave and the which sees not in it is just not comfortable here and we talk and his father just passed away. I echoed so anyway. I sit near my guest houses. Free come hang out for a few days. And he ended up staying a couple of months and the we're really nice time and I challenged my grandmother a lot df at a ha ha at the. We talk the virgin hotel,
worries, and then he started coming to maui. He bought a house with his wife that they shared with Helen hunt. So they used to come a bit. Then they got divorced when they got divorced. He came slightest, me again what we got started coming regularly enough that we got it this rhythm, where he come I'd cook dinner and I tell him stories right and then he started coming to the house with names. On his hand, oh yeah, to ask you about so we sit down for dirty. Go okay, charlie chaplin yeah you have one that I go a year was amazing. We, charlie and groucho. I got together at the savoy hotel for tea one morning and it was just have, and then he goes albert finney in a good way, but I never missed the story. That was never one person really. One just once you happen to pick even if only to- and we want to do- I lied about how we act just to keep the goal is to put that it was never won and somewhere in this process
If he would say to me, you gotta, let me record the stories you gotta. Let me put the stuart you're not going to live for every. You know if nothing else, for your kids- and I just you know, having seen what fame has done to so many people, that I love and no reason for me to flow yeah. I didn't see any reason for me to challenge myself as to how I would deal with faint, but I deal with it better than other people like what happened if the movie was actually a. I am a documentary, am I now going to turn into a drug addict and an alcoholic and kill myself? That's really a fear. Yet, if you don't trust yourself enough famous, I mean I've seen stronger people than me who can't just to life? What what is it about it? I can't. I can't tell you exactly, I think, for the most of the people I deal with it some because they were life performers a day they fought so hard. The abbe
applauding near usually for some reason other than the applause that thinking it's going to fill up some thing, maybe something with apparent something some self worth issue a felt right. It doesn't show up right. So they got everything and they still feel I get it and then than its. What now that that that's when it moves to rehab and that one was there, because now you have all the resources to do whatever the fuck you want to do and you're not happen. The holes, that's her, so I just there was no resubmit flirt with it I had never been to a psychiatrist and I never dealt with any that's nothing I knew I was is fucked up as anybody else getting enough. You have kids, but but I pretty happy so right, wife,
but now I don't have neither- and you are married, not married though it was married, got divorced, got married at sixty divorced at sixty four year and seeing a nice lady now really enjoy my relationship out of boredom just didn't see any reason whatsoever to deal with it at all. There was x other than ego, and I didn't want to succumb to just doing something for egan, so I kept saying no to MIKE and then I ended up having us, surgery and not knowing I've flatlined twice at the surgery. What the fuck, what half way surgery has something to veto? These are. These are like cars. They gladly said yeah so but when I woke up, I was in a hotel room by myself and feeling very sorry for myself. After the third year yeah, like I probably had been awake an hour in a hotel room, no one has yet my secretary, there is none of my adopted. Kids happened to be there
No woman in my life, you have adopted kid. Therefore, with great slaughter, really feel sorry for much. You know like her and he called these. If we care about I said yes really fast near thinking about. You know the ego side of it. Is that really why? I added it was to leave while I lived through this italy so I'll leave something behind for you know, sneer and
the ego weak. When you talk about ego, do you have a spiritual disposition? I'm very thankful all the time. I don't I I don't attach it to any one thing: he never tried jus the buddha, nothing that would always have been. I've been I've. I've taken as a sort of a principle of my life that there's something bigger than me. That's in charge of this whole thing, and then I'm never going to figure out who it is, what it is yeah, and so I don't dwell even on that. I just fallen doing the best. They can possibly do on this life, and so so I go to I go to temple for the holidays, but I don't write, read the the book right or go to mass with my kids and they appreciate the ritual of all of them.
Why do your kids go to mass? They are all catholic, so how'd, you end up with a bunch of catholics adopted for afro, american kids, okay, I'm like okay, that's interesting and that you adopt them as they were already. What how old the baby was. Two weeks really So I have a day a grandmother. Great grandmother raise them that mother, their mother sooner one, the mother died and fathers was sort of unknown. Well, how'd you how'd! You end up with my eye. I had their mother I'd live with their grandmother for about four years and their mother in a romantic relationship. Okay and then I lost track of them for ten or fifteen years, and then he worried that the daughter died out and when I went they were four little kids at the funeral and the nobody didn't take care of him. So he just stepped in yeah, just sort of smoked. A joint with the car said
it's the business. The moment a cum covered be yeah. He illegally adopted me. I never. I never legally adopted him, but I just took it agony, iris, that's a that's! That's amazing! Three of them are back in maui with me. Now doing all right, everyone's alright yeah for the most part and for the most part doing really well, it's been great to have them home to new ones. Two little babies a four year old and a three year old, who were just so precious, and they all live with, you know three of them are living on Maui one lives with me in maui, but she works with Alice on the road doing ip ticketing and one has a her husband have a tattoo parlor in Lahaina and the ones living up country with their baby, and then one's in my the house at eight originally got for them in new york, oh wow,
the first time. Maybe it's the big life in a way. So when did you be like before we end up, I just you know I it seems to me that you're responsible for the celebrity chef reality. For me, that was just the really wonderful part of my life. My passion is a coronary arts. I found out late in my life, where I don't really have that passion for music yeah for for movies, and I root. If I I don't have stereo at the house, if, if I didn't see another movie, I'd be fine. If I didn't cook a minute, if I go crazy, it really call you always cooked. Yet no I met. I I got lucky enough when I won the confidence festival, the meat, a chef who sought. It taught me in his way how to be happy. I was really
risk goes, but that a hotel or what there was at a restaurant. I got here and taken to a restaurant called the moulin rouge on when I won the year with the duelist and met this wonderful chef, who was very successful and very happy haha. If it was really obvious, he was happy and in a sense that- and I sense both that- and I sense that in me I was headed for trouble. I was too much drugs to any beautiful women to successful for you just yet, but but you know, I'd all the fools gold and short short, but okay, but yet, but I could hear a in me as empty yea guardian, and I was she and people getting hurdles in the head reaches with. Did the joplin within it
consequences. Thirty am right now and I could see I was on their train and- and I just when I saw him, I said he can save my life haha and he did you know, but what not? Because he consciously did he just didn't. I became his grasshopper for twenty five years and had he start a relation, Like the rapporteur, I wait. I saw you come into the room only I made up my mind that moment. I thought about kung fu grasses
in the old man litter of year, and I waited till after service, and I went over to him and I said that I would like to be as grasshopper and he didn't speak much english. He had no idea what I was talking about and they said nobody's grasshopper yeah and I said well I'd like to hang out with you and he said. Well, I'm a simple chef: do you know how to cook and it unknown? He saw if you learn how to cook. You can come back and work in my kitchen haha. So I asked him how and he gave me names from cooking schools, and I went through those cooking schools really well how many years it isn't that next year, Marcelo hanson in ITALY, I and a fellow named charlie and banca. How long have these place weak didn't learn? Much of anything which came back with being able to say to my went, you could wait and also you could understand how things come together, but yet the enough that I could come back I went there and I can
back. He had no idea who I was, or you know, but as we said, I could work in the kitchen and he said: oh I'm so sorry, I'm leaving for bangkok right after the festival, so I asked, if I could come, then he said yes and them on that trip. We really bonded. We got to spend the week in Bangkok and that just started our journey and the
a wherever year we would travel at he ended up. I ended up having a movie and con for the next twelve or fifteen years. He was the guy and kadi did the ab, far thing and with Sharon stone and the we'd take a bus and go for two weeks and travel and eat eat and drink, and you learned how to cook- and I learned how to cook through him- and I also got to see this amazing collection around the world of culinary artist who were treated exactly like the afro americans were in the chitlin circuit. Aha was the same thing right, so I knew I had the skills to change it and them, as I got to know the chefs. They sort of knew that too so one day we all got together and decided. We would change the game and we started an agency
perfect, but sixty five billy nobu Wolfgang yeah amro amro the whole gay era, alice waters, everybody then the out Daniel yell and the change the game room and got the food network on the air and started to get products and stores and a multiple restaurants I decided what I what I told him when I started with him. Is it Michael jackson, if there weren't delivery systems like record players here, mtv stereos you'd be wandering minstrel, which is what they are yeah. So we need to develop home delivery systems. Food network get you in their house, spices, kitchen, the store, your videos books as just like every other artist bright, and once we started to do that, it really took off. So when you, when you develop this relationship, did you just stop? Which
what business? When did you start with what what would be called? Well, obviously, you still got ours, but did you at some point say I'm done with it? I had a moment in my life just like everything else. It's always been moments. I had a premiere of a with craven John carpet, a movie at universal red carpet, all the stars mia board, the death yeah food maui. The next day
yeah on my hammock by myself, having a grew limited so excited like every molecule in my body are ecstatic, and I said: what's it all about I'm going to die yeah that was year as crazy, so I flew until a couple of days later called the palace asked me where he was. He said he was in l a and I said, can you get me? I don't want to have to drive at the lodge of getting very drunk yeah and I resigned from everybody one morning. Everybody was happy except Luther Luther felt, deprived haha, but everybody else was really happy for me, but I resigned from but a hundred clients at the wow, mostly music, a lot of food. Some I take to others is after you are definitely half in half see beverly left your mark. You can feel proud. A bridle, on a really what I it and you have healthy, now hear it really? The grenelle yeah whole lot. Love booth spoke about, though
dont really do any of the hard drugs. Any word, no desire whatsoever. Fear if I had a desired polly. Do right cause. I never was out of control with it sure there you know. I have one kid who can't drink. He should never drink at really simple. Yet you do what you can do. I always had the tolerance right right, so yeah, no I'd like I have a couple of vodkas a day. Usually it just came from ITALY and go hunting for white truffles. Oh yeah, and we drank at eight like wildman, good time, really get the when you think about show business when you think about who do you consider, because you have it accumulated a latvian wisdom and in your own philosophy that things at three keeps you out what good it who credit is your men, tourism in my
third in life for roger version, the chef that his holiness the dalai lama, who am a chance to serve which I'm really food I cooked for him, and I serve on his board for the last, where you're not a buddhist. I just like him and I, like all I'd, love every day, here, you know all the buddhist things are right. It right into my life. Do are you in touch with the dalai lama? and say norman lear from a distance so alive, and so with the asian is now so in the moment nasa positive so willing. I warn you was at five sagoth birthday party in name we are back with norman in a and me and him in in bill. Burr's smoked a cigar, and I was just a it always like you as well as I'm. Not I I I I
do get a little compulsive, but I don't drink or do drugs any more. But like I liked that at ninety something he's like I have a cigar, forgive weiner. We had dinner that he was. He looked at his phone. He said just wait to see if they picked up my amazon series, he he's played the fourth yeah I love you. I think keep them. What about a management little I I can't say that I had any real heroes and management. I have a lot of respect for Freddie. The man who manage Michael jackson beyond Madonna yeah thought he was really really good, yeah I think some of the old guys whom the manager seymour Heller yet who manage liberace for fifty years, but I didn't have a lot of contact with the manager. Right, but I think there's gonna be a moment where
the artist, maybe you gonna, be able to the tables a little bit of started to see little thing starting to happen. I definitely like flo and eddie have a lawsuit against sirius, and if you saw a really really interesting lawsuit and what they uncovered through the lawsuit, is it the they don't pay for pre nineteen? Seventy two copyrights: they were able to lobby serious to get a pass on, paying any sound exchange, that's it! That's why the ascap of of satellite but pre? Seventy two! They don't have to pay oh shit, but how did they accomplishes the accomplished by paying record companies three hundred and forty five million dollars to agreed and not take three. Seventy two royalty right, but the artist in degree and the artist they'll get a flow through so on those
these those turtles records right so that the they ve had to court rulings. Now the serious can't play those records, that's big stuff. What about the back money? and that words go into now is damages for the back so get. I think it's a unit all these little things, I read like I just written in a vacuum record caught in a wall street journal article that one major record company that over who is universal. He's getting a million dollars a day from sirius radio, no shit a day, not a week a day. It's why they're so profitable. Nobody could figure out why these record companies are so profitable sale. When you don't sell any records cause, they don't pass it through that fuckin insane. So I think it's things are going to start changing, maybe a little bit while the flow and everyone's gonna have a big impact for the back for the back money. So
It is of a bigger final once the microscope goes on UR basement screaming about this for a while. Yet when he called for take account. You want to watch this micro once is magnifying glass gets on it and they start seeing that the record companies owned the services that to determine how much money goes to the artists than what they did, that the path that the deals that are happening, the top levels of satellite music and the record companies. Then it's it's got nothing to do with the eyes because they just think Is it just about why the there now guys it? They don't know better its idea, but the guys saying that are like we got more money coming in at fuckin unreal- would be a great thing. I could do what a lot of them are destitute and also one, can lose all of our artists. There's no there's no incentive for young people who go to music. But the weeping about artists, his elegant emitters of you guys, like you and you know it.
Your guy on the other side of it is just trying to be an artist. You have that temperament. You know you, you know you there there was. It was in your mind. You, like I gotta, get a guy like you, earn a living, yes or no, it's changing little, because you can really find your own euros without anybody, but also you know how do you find somebody? You can trust in you noted alone melita. Well you're good guy, I'm glad day you're alive, and I hope this of the book shelves. But I'm not sure you don't want to get too big right about that too. Published by actually boarded by the way, which are very proud of the asia good cat. I had him in Acta, im a couple of times really good guy yeah yeah yeah came up to me said. I want to write your book and I said why, and he said cause that wasn't few I wouldn't be famous, and I said I've never met you He said no! No. He said you made emerald aghast famous and I made myself famous by beating that marilla gus. Also, I owe you a coupon yeah how
Finally got out there like a like you put gore asia. Gordon thanks are talkin like you, ok moving forward we can do it. But just stay in touch. Let's keep talking, lot of broken hearts out there, who, out of fear, lot of that was manifested in, rage and anger So now, what do we do with arts? Let's not fallen, our ourselves, let's keep doing We do indeed
it harder. Let's bring it in no guitar. I gotta go act I guess we all do. Oh marilla,
Transcript generated on 2022-09-05.