« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 760 - Legs McNeil & Gillian McCain / Andre Royo

2016-11-16 | 🔗
Legs McNeil and Gillian McCain wrote a book that changed Marc's life. On the 20-year anniversary of 'Please Kill Me: An Uncensored Oral History of Punk,' Legs and Gillian tell Marc why they wrote it in the first place and why it still resonates two decades later. Also, Marc's neighborhood buddy Andre Royo stops by to talk about his new independent film Hunter Gatherer.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
All right. Let's do this, how are you what the fuckers, what the fuck bodies, what the plug in years, what the fuck mix, what the fuck and east is what's happening? What the fuck, turkey and everybody how's it going on mark mare, and this is my podcast welcome to it. as we slog through the muddle excited about the show today because it represents, it's a time in music that Fortunately, I was too much of a I was a square, but it was not pumpkin into where I grew up. My guess it today. I'd there's actually add two separate sets of guests. So that's exciting today on the young and talked Andre royal ease an actor. He was bubbles on the wire, but New movie seems
great is in this new film called hunter gatherer, who have not for me always seen, em the great guy, the great actor easy is gonna, be for a few minutes to talk about this new film and then we have legs macneil and Gillian Mccain. Now I've talked about this before Back legs, macneil and gillian cain put together. When the greatest books ever, please kill me The uncensored oral history of punk rock I was excited to talk to them because that book changed my life, probably in a bigger way than than most but a couple of books. The denial of death by earnest becker when I was, at the beginning, as I missed punk, somehow in a way, I remember buying the first sex pistols album in new jersey While I was staying at my grandmother's when came out in the united states. I didn't
was I'd. Seen pictures of johnny rotten in the music magazines I was reading, but I was thirteen years old or so could not grabbed and not grab. The culture quite and I was around the age at which should grab me, but I kind of missed it by a few years and when it really took hold, but I had the record, I still have the record. I liked the record but I didn't understand what it represented in then I didn't quite lock into it. It was around a little bit towards the end of high school in and when I went to college my first girlfriend at the sight of her head shaved and now is pretty on rock. But I kind of push back against it because I was such an old any mother fucker with my music tastes and it was this book. Please tell me the book that that I have the authors on today that move me through everything that change the entire landscape of my musical standing and and also just blew my mind with
you knew bans by ten, there's two eight or more, but it was fucking great I mean I was lucky enough to get into the velvet underground in college, because one of the good, it lived in the house before me, bob gaff left his brothers records air enlivened. sixty nine was one of them, so I had that as us as a foundation. But please Kill me move me through all that through the entire new york punk, seen by way of the empty five. The but underground egg stooges and through the ramones and everything that happened down there, that new york dolls talking heads Tom, verlaine johnny thunders all the just it just move me through all of it and if you get these books, a new version of the music, which is so fuckin easy to do so. You can experience, it while you're reading about that. I do it. As they deal with whatever music I'm reading about it. Just Not my brain entirely. Light under the wire, because who knows how old you get before you bring-
closes up, but this punk rock shit from back in the day and that you have they lived a life, but you know it like even new york new you city in the early seventys was is almost like a bomb mass in june. just sort of where it sprouted out of patty psmith robert maple thorpe, is well it just grew like I like, energy eyes, energized loud fungus at a low reside there, and those days are behind us, but the music exists. Yeah having twitter off my phone is freed up. Some space and time seems to function in its natural unfolding as opposed to apt up with with just a constant onslaught of the vote will garbage spinning fragments of light here in their me up and down cortisol endorphins sadness, elation anger,
all of it happening in minutes over nuthin felt good I'm, really, I'm really considering taking it off my just my computer to just a life without it I've friends, you do it and I used to think like what the fuck are. They We have, they live without it I'll tell you how they live, the fucking world. You know it well what are you gonna, get on there, as time moves on it, starting to become apparent that the truth, not be revealed because it's just a goddamn big media model, just in never ending dodgeball game. A bull, shit I'll be in nashville this saturday at the James kay fearing gotta deputy pod dive com, for formation on that and some tickets. I think, there's a few f looking. did that I've friends down there their seed nape our gets. He may bessie Margo ice, maybe hang our bit. Hopefully the show will be nice, maybe I'll, be able to just jams.
chicken into my dumb face burn my in my mouth. and get on an airplane and have that sperience said that actually When a consideration for me, I was like when I get a tiny get, how chicken and only there for one night and if I do get a chicken willing to pay the price for that on a fuckin airplane, and I think we know I'm talking about So right now want to talk to my friend, Andre Arroyo, great guy, greater, their his new independent film called hunter gatherer, which is now playing in new york and Sandro assisted me and andrzej If so, what happened? You're going to be my neighbor, then again reality here. I thought I saw the beautiful house, I was excited, I looked at it. You know we knew the asking price and all that- and I'm like this, I'm on a couple of shows
I should be able to fund the reality now limbs and I sat me download if you remember Are you did moves like this? The europe we want, the republic Don't do it again, like a dog hit, a star, don't get it twisted and writing the idea of a renter draw accepted. Yet so I I couldn't do it, but it looks as if it's such a beautiful place. It was alright It was yeah, it was a nice location, wouldn't need all the work it needed work, but the space be like you sought out. You know like everything of the opportunity, yeah yeah, it was a lot of opportunity. You can really party house, look cool yeah, a little chill all the amenities year of being and anything you wanted it to be right right, where it couldn't be, speaking about it? That's all right! So this when was the last time you were back in new york, the latter. I was back in new york
was for the movie, you know that's common on november, sixteenth hunter, gatherer hunter gatherer gather within a festival called the rooftops series ha ha in brooklyn, and I went. I went down there that and had to go over. It was great. It was great. First of all to be back home. Yeah political son has returned yeah yeah with a little indifferent when we want to come back home. I miss yeah I'll, come back and hero my my you're, hoping to come back to a superman's outfit, a superhero, a superhero who knows me as a zombie apocalyptic and I'm the savior, but like a little indie film with that, and I have to go down and go into their whole concept of you know me and I'm about to cry
but the honesty and never give up my indy spirit and love is the halo until they go. Could you sign here? We want that hauser marijuana edgar, but can I can I? Can I bring my craft, a vision that suggested get them? Of course you get you invited ambient beat us. It's gonna. Take that crap they led back there, to the ambient be, but there's a funny thing about those kind of incisions, where you don't know how the hell a movie's going to come out when you get into it. You don't know you know you're you're, all acting on good faith. I dunno who the director was how'd, you get the movie. How did it how a friend of mine, Julia kim, gans indirect, do we kind of met? You know hung out a little bit and found out that we we kind of like the same kind of quirky films here and there, and she said, I got the script eddie, I'm ibm casting in this way. It is aware that bill. is it has as it has the archetype
move it out. We ve seen before no man is out of jail inside the fixes life like straight time. Last rates will ill scarecrow, huddle jack of inner in this field, like the norm and I'm like ileum read it and all of a sudden, I'm reading it and I'm like this tone, is different. It has little surreal simplistic like honesty about this film that I kind of dig and want me to be. I might have a chance to believe, carry a film. I said. Let me let me let me meet the director and just talk about it as chopra to see. If I can trust him, he can trust me yeah and in a six nine tall blown away boy walks up only did you gotta get him What are you going to bodyguard? You? Must be the body go where the loo has little merit liberal their behinds are still little bagdad road. Then he sat down. He was really like a cool dude and I was like I let's, let's see What do you want to do this? We teach us that I can do this taboo role and that happy go. Oh, my god. Look, it's bubbles, MIA I love by anyone, buddha crap, another character,
and he was worried about that too. We, like you, know those guys. You know who that is down his love bob. I I don't want people go awhile for my first movie, I got bubbles, the play bubbles yeah, that's not. That's the guy. A drug tat now is not at all. We know been a witness glibly would like Google, pushing a wagon all homeless bubble by area right like then, the whole class What clothes can I do without a hat, and you have ladies and it'll, be no drugs and the unknown? I don't want to even have a cigarette in my hand number but yeah. it is. It was fun, it was fun to really sit down and I think the difference between an independent film and a blockbuster is that you know, I think the expectations of everybody on the set is an automatically an indie film. They all like this. Luckily, my nicole, we just doing this cause, we love to do it and it it'd be great. If it goes, you know to the upper echelons of the bigness well? I can't really is lou independent and is a whit, we're, ok with the air by he ok with their there
it'd, be in a festival here and there and then disappear. Is everybody ok with it and we all kind of like this while we're doing it for love you I hope we do and if required, are also doing it for maybe meeting on eight may be home, maybe, but but we don't need it yet. The artists yeah that's right cause. We don't need five billion when we do a blockbuster deal like this is going to go big right like this is going to be the one that changed my life and when that fails, you go what happened. Yeah cause everybody has different expectations, of the moving sure I'm the on that now in on a country level yes, but by, but the thing is that, with that with the small crew, with the indian down beatin without the mistakes of a black buster does that you know there is a unity that there is a feeling of weather
whether or not you are all working together, we will all creating together. That's right. You understand the limitations of the situation at the age of eighteen days and counting we can't shoot at the airport. We gotta do it in the living less and you feel good and you feel good because somebody's background and you feel like all the creative juices up long at the same time. This is odd. This is about craft services might be a little disappointing, but that's all right, but as long as you, let me know always always to every person that comes at me, will, like you the film they about and interested in doing that will I do it with so that wonderful question like a man who know what you do as long as you. Let me know I'm going to eat the same pizza every day. Just let me know have fun yeah you just look. Your mom was cooking right right and when that doesn't work, I gotta deal with the pizza shop alamo, I'm okay with. That is that if I got an idea that is going to be a craft service yeah- and it's not I'm a little salty- that I'm a liberal ideas. This the same pizza, though, did you eat the pizza yeah? No,
I, the pizza, as the only thing in the contract rider, can we mix it up on the craft services not two day old pizza and now today, one day is good. Yeah there's always go ahead, but then next day you know it's a little hard. So what now the guy? Who, wrote. It yeah what's his name jaws lucy, and this is where third film is as follows. First, big film gonna will work with whomever never didn't. Did anything not a short look at anything? I knew that neo on mat near a one, never wrote a movie before note now that I know this is the first joint joined a whose work nor in l a net. I you know, that's why I guess was the instant connection of this guy to us. He lay like this. My first movie near me and I he added, I don't know why I will destroy but who spoke to me a blind. He was really a passionate about it and it when I now what eminem like love me, in my you know my career, I don't get him to carry a film right at all be grimy, so
exciting to me with your baby right now, it's a shoe that you can execute. He won't leave me out there in the win right with the odds. Your choices are in fact, knowing that, as was here, the ships deity of cars you see in the direct is within eighteen days in the money's run out and all your exes left, because they didn't like the cold weather that pizza you see in the directors, start to breakdown a buckle they block or nagel. I can't do this guy at the door and I'm like that's the worst if you get older, that no, I know you know break down I won't facts it it. I won't be. They did no one's gonna cities movie anyway. right? I really of the matter. I ain't gonna fuck it. I just want to limit this july over to oversee the deadline. So I think again we know as well. we see he had the stamina to believe in himself to trust that you can get it done. I would like I'm here with you and I'll give you everything. I got an owl
look. I know it might lead you to direct me. You can come and say I don't feel really. I don't like it any different. Give me a different choice, but that's the I think the thing that you know he's doing his first movie you're doing your first lead in a movie. Yes, so there's a vulnerability there. That's why I trust that has to have has to happen. Yes and it's yeah and and and then like. The weird thing is what, in my experience, just being an actor on a on a show that they were I'm not being me is that the you know the first, the first bit you're like oh shit. it might be able to do this and thereby halfway through you like this, is in his heart and at all, but you're almost done you come by re, for this is a long list of. Why did you let it doesn't even know? It's really really testing you and you in your proudly yourself that you still allow yourself to be challenged. The still put itself in situated at the you know, the thirty. you you're going like
I do this like I could be. I can be wasn't a game this way. She knows what she knows edit or we have this universe and we're okay, and that's that's interesting to think too that your lead, so I dunno the situation is that a lot of times when you're an actor you're gonna get all this coverage again. Do that scene ten times from every angle and a lot of times liking and the ninth time, when the coverages and even on you, that's when you finally nail you ve, got to go well living in oblivion that that the whole cause if they were. Similarly, you do all your good work off, came right of every event, tat. They need to make any put it on again. What gives you finally got it as their last shot? You like this, and it does so that happens to you told them.
All the time how old are or somebody has discovered, yet that was it or somebody over your shoulder on somebody else. I deliver that line like like a master like wow, so I get what I get with. That line really means now not what I wanted it to mean, but what it organically mean right, exactly you, sydney of ideas, it'll be cool. If I say this land like you make choices, you may necessarily feel it yes, because you may too as the house as the looking in interest in directing media access? the aim of those choices, and once you get past that bull crap you go, you know what limits directly myself entrusting what the scene is about, but it takes a moment ago It doesn't happen right away because you're you're, hoping the choices will carry us in and they can yes, but there are those moments where you're like. Oh, I finally get what the fuck is happening here, because I can read a script in the end and then, by the time it's broken into scenes and a shot at order. I dunno what the fuck is happening, as I gotta refresh myself on what's happening and everything else, you do all this other work, but ultimately
and this was gettin gonna. Get too was that you know you an actor use, a person who is a creative person. You know bring a lot to it. But the stories on the page yes and and at some point you gotta trust? Yes, and I and people look at you and go and when I see you work in a sea, they see how it looks so effortless here they are all behind the same thing. They think, then, that's what you do automatically Nathan, you don't do all of rebuilding. the only time bathing or he comes in, he sees he'd caesar, unpaid, yet tat. I love, but this act of visas. It's alright. Yeah, now, behind closed doors, we've tried everything under the sun and when we fully exhaust they will read it buy food or a bagel. What else? What the scenes yeah okinawa,
actually yeah. Maybe maybe try to remember that and when I said, let me try to remember that you know, and I hope it I hope I fooled them. Yes, that the story was strong enough in that scene that they don't know that I didn't know who's the editor, let me know better be their best friend. The editor is your best friend and that's the other thing above where people watching like a three minute scene and they're like smooth. They don't realize that took as night maltese, our nineteen out of an independent film or anywhere argument. complaining, second guessing looking at the liquor that make a bottleneck So my tumblr is this: when we have the right to know its rays, somebody tell me leave the second idea like as our anxiety I loved him, and now I felt they occupy you seriously going here be ass. For me, I know a lot of what is this about: what's the characters name, Ashley ashley douglas good dude, I I put him
other like again in my process. Now you know the directive demeanor regular talking about this tone and yeah. It is felt the little off beat and in I I are be well in a week ago, is off beat in the idea of perception, in how as a black actor, I have still stayed at yeah, I'll, probably say more now, but at the black actor I've all. I take a certain sensibility of how we seen on queen by watching a lot of movies and watch a lotta tv shows and seeing what surrounds us and yeah, I read a script where there's no coercion, there's no, dogs, the is no violence and I'm as well as different soon made on the waters definition nothing any of that. Hits me in the face with the you're black you're black lead right and you're not going to coast never did no jogged in the violence. Will we ever do, for wit right and you go lattices into us young people get. This. Will people even one
the people know how to get this near by like we're in so it, and I asked was it. We also. Will I wouldn't know where'd you get this if they got these little mystical, the muse everything about it is low surreal of bee tell me to read a book called confederacy of dances. Yes, sir, and I did. I mean it tool yet, and I read this and I lovely How did the Ignatius, whose son, by the way he was his braggadocio in and just light wanted to be liked wanted to have? mixing in it was like come on you gotta, like me, because you made me believe you'd like me to use it. Yeah keep liking me here and then I thought about kanye west, and how can u s in okinawa says some stuff?
and most of the stuff that he says, makes sense. Yeah we just don't like who's who's, saying it. The way he said it will look like we're, not gonna tell you the smartest shut up, yeah yeah shut up, but yeah then later on ago, I mean make a wish. Somebody else said it looked like somebody else said I wouldn't have had this reaction. Yes, yes, so athlete douglas. You know he hasn't. You know an idea of how you know he was perceived I going back to your high school reunion and you go out every night before you go like everybody loved me, I was thought I was young. I was the funniest guy on the planet and when you go to school at the moment, as some people were at the back late on a kind of an asshole right. No, you can't live. You know. New annoying amounts is another kind of coral wouldn't me yeah why miasm, maybe have you any idea. How will this wilful? You knew it would make me believe that you, like me at la muffled pierre, now you know so I added a problem. Had I not amount of and saying what he was in the camphor
It is not revealed in the script I have. My backstory is now revealed in the script and I think those are the director's choice that he didn't. He didn't want people to define his character by the abu know of a specific past, like alright, always a common like telling that only the more than enough convicts. Inevitably, nobody makes its choices right. So in a way we don't. We know reveal that and we keep rev interesting. We keep it baby our very own oblique is at them. well yeah, I think so yeah we do. We just keep it. You know we knew the audio guys if it was drugs or if it was. He was a killer. Then, all of a sudden that they'd have an idea with the caveat right you've already put like, and that's not what it's about it's about a guy trying to reintegrate himself. You integrate, find himself in and and just try to you know, get the life and he had before he left and what sounds like. You know that you are, however, humbling prison. It was for the character, which is obviously going to be somewhat yeah, that yeah the
since getting out were well. I'm just gonna go back to being this. This a guy whatever I thought I was before I end in life humbles. That's what exactly you ve been to this. Maybe have we speak of experience? Yes, it does, it has exactly the way you will be humble. He asked you will be there's no way around. It absolutely unless you get out early unless you get out or just move somewhere else- and if you go somewhere else you can create, then you gotta keep moving. You gotta keep moving your character stays the same, and if you have a new set of friends and who are the other actors, you work with anything exciting there. While we, we have this guy george sampled, the third new actor, the second movie found them and sundance. He did a movie called corners and he was you know, saint louis anything and the first time anal. It was so humbling to sit in a table weed and he would let you know. Last week I was his
in seven eleven and now working with the great andre, lloyd, oh, come on. I only like this can't let them down I know all my lungs are going to hit every mark. Now I gotta tila. I do, but I just gotta be perfect. Yeah I gotta be gotta, be the grade or eight hundred and in and then all of a sudden. You learn a lot cause. You see a young person, the ugly in making choices and you're while he's finding things what it was like when you found laying the ionian seas? Will I almost got us a good choice and weak? It is worthwhile off each other nationals, another woman, calais, a comedic actors who did a lot of things. Would you be ass in yossi, like the thinks, just sold a show which he talks about her life and that, as an actual he's, always of the black female fight, the who in and she was as cool and seal also said to me. You know it was as weird that one I found a lot of grey hairs after the first day. I mean nobody because they made me feel old as he was as I you know. I first met you
or saw you wandering the acapulco black festival back in a day in your energy outlay. Wow this guy he's gonna make it had been if he can make it so now, working with you and my managing agent said the only reason the woman is script because of a no money down here is called anti virus on it. Well no shit and I'm like this- oh my god, the weight of everybody gotta act like you, it was, it was awesome. They held me accountable and then I held them accountable. I don't fuck up the great onto that leading role hope he said that I imply the subtext and celibacy of tech, but it was, it was beautiful. It was beautiful and I think it's on the screen. I hope everybody goes out and and and and and understand, the did this in place. We need humanity that I've I've. I found it. we'll say I bring to every character way. You know they do seem real. Beer, and you know we. I think we have a is one
Comedies, where you just you can't awkwardly laugh at the idea that this is how people act, life. I desire. You know this with the internet applause we call people news conference talking and we're here. well, can you go by as a real person? where's, your feeling when you, when you watch it where you like our eye. I want, was I I told the director, you know the same thing from when I read the script to white in it. I said you know what It was while in I am involved in the project. That makes me a better addis. That makes me feel like a better person. Could I make decisions on doing something near now, because I think we want a hope, but did you could I liked it? we are all a man in my best compliment They know it went by a premium itself by south west and I am one best acted in all this. People go away all I've really. It was so different it was so unique, was so we new stuff they hit em like an animal, unique.
We know what I know what I was watching a north than that, Why would I like to see it as their color? If bills you know, is refreshed the imo, amanda kane Amelia, would like this volcano it. You will write and I love that they were waiting for this to be bad, as you would find on the final day, I'm going to make sure I make I get you to book, something that you can never do this movie. It was like Can I change because they would escape? It was like we don't get it I don't get. The movie is essential. May I now know that's why I like it here and I went down doing so in a book down. Oh no, it last time we talked, I know how it came to pass, but in a middle casting this movie? Like I'm reading with other actors, see was plain apart. We buy the shoot next month, everything going well, I'm kind of excited and demands Others like oh empire, implies ready. They gonna role for you. You got the mall here and I'm like we'll talk
now I'm in the middle of catherine, and I told you I told Jaeger, you can't say no to empire empires too big a man knows a big show, but I don't know, while danny strongest calling you pick up the phone. A greater europe, so he called me lay. I know I know. Look I know you might have heard is a full episodes but now we want to put a long. One lay if you, x out. We love you and we knew we seen it all before here. You know what would come on board and others like here Not listen I'll. Give you a big show. I love the show leno. I loved the impact that it has under newton's, indie failure and he'd, like I lindy it. Ok about this union you when you're doing this, when you want to shoot the movie as if the eighteen days you wanna shoot next month. Okay, that's not gonna work, but his latin. Do you come start working empire I'll, take two episodes you'll, give it two episodes off and then you can go shoot the movie all you gotta do,
is handled, people wait for you and I never had an actor at that at my level or the great android. I've never heard that before, like you want me to go up and tell these guys that I'm making this movie to wait for me like ass, not ignore it and this guy is saying or empire he'll. Give me two episodes off to go. Do it. You know I was like okay, so he gets it. He gets there. A lot on my loves but also need to have money and lovely ambien, but they want ye and they want me. Women to go it will want to ban that they will do to favour one logical, do go he Ain t fail. Yes, I go up today produces an interactive lecasser, like you know, where James another guy coming in a light. Look. when I told you we all know mammalia marriage gonna make sure I give job. allow me to do this movie. They just call me, for example, obama do mine waiting, light to moments, shoot couple months and room was silent, directed jaws was. I
Well, you know who you see as may's awesome, essex. Now? Why would that look mean? Is l a and he was like you know he was like well We don't empire this aladdin. You know it's gonna be a lot of eyes on you yeah. It is the indie film. Oh, if they could add a business, isn't it may show bins, and then he would like this millet yeah, we'll wait. We'll wait it took a hit like they lost the whole chunk of like I did great though everything was eleven, we hadn t we hire, but they waited and as though that, like the first my career. I assume I been I don't know. Do me a favor beyond network and movie movie house gone the other way, yeah you're you're, you're learning the best learning begins, I'm moving on yeah, so it was, it was all around vu. mentally and spiritually and artistically. It was ill a growth and I look at you can only hope that you keep growing in keep
often yourself and challenges of a new projects they make you grow up. Well, if you're going to get bored now now you don't wanna, get bored or complacent or or feel like you're. You know you're Haydn. Yes, you have to end our day. I am not worth the game unless it's the checklist, the checklist season, nineteen we do seasons more. This is not going to do that I'll do it hasn't project may next year empire go implies fun. Israel is Well, you know at the camp, the town I came on, you know. Second season there was a lot of guest stars. You know the energy of the you know expectation because the first season was a monster year. So you could You could feel like this second season by one or two. You know I hate the same way so you a little attention on said, but the act is too large interference, the young kids. They were so fun dead. They will. I bet tenderness as soon somebody else's problem, is in playground regionally and we
plain and it's been, it's been a lot of fun fun and in india we call the feedback from my characters: dough. I know a time yeah and now you know somewhere, like I, was doing some for the school and, like all the kids oh, as does the empire, but all the teachers come out as bubbles as an ebook. They don't have been and always close the hood and I'm just getting ideas wow. This is kind of cool I'm going to materialise. Thank god, sort of like you now you're your bubbles and something something else or you know, bubbles will stay in my heart forever. Why have alive, but I I want you know you want people to know, but thirsty can live their toes. They can live there. Do we have so many personalities in our bodies that, yes, I got a couple more characters in my body that I hope can come out while it's great man I was. I wish you the best of success with the movies always good to see you tomorrow. Thank you and keep. You know, keep your eye out for a couple of houses and beyond.
I'll. Make sure to stack them if I, if I, if I get if I go too crazy, might buy this one they'll give me a discount, maybe just give me a discount. Alright good man well good to see new to moment. Take it I love that guy movies sounds great. It sounds were but it's always get to talk to me, the real actor and definitely a real dude sweet guy where'd you mcneil and Gillian Mccain. The this we'll chaotic interviewed. The legs is a little current cranky pencroft. Astern enjoying a little more level headed, but their book, please kill me, was just re, released, an especial twentieth anniversary, Listen, you can get it now, wherever you give books right. So this is me and them talkin about rock and roll Pencroft
Pretty specifically. I know I had a copy of police kill me, but I guess I've had like four: don't give them away now you can't I know I know they're like because of the book. The reason I I didn't even know you guys are going to be in town. I got you, you have your publicity, whoever was charge semi then I'm like I'd I'd like to talk to them because it because the book like my life, but I imagine you hear that. Why do you hear that but I want to hear how it change your life. I kind of missed all. yeah. I miss that time. I was a little too young, so I You know whatever I god musically, you you know is already. Could I graduated high school in eighty one right so that was already crashing and it was all I was in the middle of new mexico, so I have one guy, creek interconnection and my parents settled there.
I'm from jersey originally and I somehow ended up. You know growing up in albuquerque, but I had the one record store guy that turned me on to ship. I had no sense of that whole time, but I liked some of the people involved. So when I got it try remember what europe was just now about all those people and the more importantly, the evolution from psychedelic through detroit to hear that the history, the history was was compelling to me an arm tied together, made sense. So during the time I was reading it as listening to all of it, so I was able to listen to all these people in context and put them altogether and also the book, because it's an oral history, human eyes people that I I I was and there were heroes for better or for worse That's why we hoped there is it yeah that was the plan yeah? Well, we had to show because Danny fields has very early onto Duncan hannah yeah ego, because what's when kramer like? What's right
if they're assholes and it but their great, he yeah they're, all great by all households to and that kind of the that's we took them a sure to show everyone as heroic as possible here and also as disgusting, his pulse oh yeah, I have waited here yeah I had it in your ways. Better now get out of here is a pop became a dad and he saw articulate to where I always got. You know he's got purpose in life, but but yeah I mean mob most dramatically the one they took a fall for me. Was they re really that and also that Nikko became this fucking person like a blue, my mind and not just the music produced in the sense of of realising these people, people and its not that they're, not good people.
but they're just sort of right. Now that my opinion is the pig I got you not at all what I will say again that dirty drug ad hoc ministers, who is beaumont, I know I know I know but like there's, there's some weird cut off in the brain, when you want someone to be this rock god yeah in india, every in the body constant happens in here all the time. When I talk to people I mean that's. The best thing that can happen is you're right that these are just people. We don't want. the believe it some party you doesn't you brought you want that whatever the persona is but a lot of times there, if they're, not monsters, they're just bores. Exactly exactly that's worth us exactly how things are to foreign oral history day I for life Nobody I only get right. Yeah you're, like like actors, rightly, are tricky
Some of them like I have a deep you, no kind of person, but a lot of em you want so much for them to be they who, who they are acting as in there you got to gonna forget we always forget that somebody wrote those lines serve. You know. Yet they didn't. You come here we're tricky, but you can find him in there, sometimes each other. But now, when you guys what year did come out says the twentieth anniversary of that means. It is ninety. Ninety six. So that was way after the fact yeah. Let's go back to the history a little bit legs. U, yours Moreover, a seminal figure yeah. on crack yeah. Well, because I named punk magazine, which named How old are you? I was nineteen, so your ninety, running around new york. Where did you grow up in new york? Now I grew up in connecticut, which was the worst state in the union. or I gain. I understand canada, gate mary when a party connecticut cheshire, catcher kinetic. What's that, where my more might actually my good it near, and it's a bedroom community, two towns north.
new haven. So what was happening so it so you, your nineteen what night in wait, what you're not just wanted to get out of kinetic sure any way possible what year was it that we want and we moved to new york. I moved to new york and seventy four John holmes from had already moved there and he was writing. Let to me, saying I'm gonna, be a millionaire before you. It was always very competitive. What I understand new york and in that time was like devastated. Yes, it was beautiful. As regards the other world boys, it was gorgeous it ass. It was like Dresden, after the fires we really where we really. I mean there were really like burnt out buildings. Just I mean it was like this giant movies at sea white flour. had happened right really happening, but the fifties- and it was the very end of white flee otto everybody in new york who grow up there and moved had moved to the suburbs yeah, so downtown new york was like deserted. It was like this giant movies,
yes, so great. It was so much VON everyone you guys what we live in for like a nickel in yes, yes, I got paid in the bag, I got paid thirty dollars a week, a punk magazine and that salary was cut to fifteen. Aha, it's nice living on fifteen dollars and when we do, we have to take showers at nancy sponges house now really yeah. She was actually you know. Everybody says I mean and chloe web did a great job of her and said anthea, but you know that I, like any other nephew Fine, you know what we're who else would hang around for you are you are sort of defining this? You were not a musician, but you are seeing what's going on now. I never wanted to be a musician. I didn't want me, no. I have to wait for my drama. The good guy get go to the methadone clinic before I did. I more carry those that equipment. You know that was there carrying these giant gambling.
have no musical ability. What's a well yeah, that's paradigm, but you ten. I didn't want to carry anything yet, but you tat in somehow, like you like, when you ve got to new york, was the plan to write about the music scene or word to digital homes, I wanted to make movies yeah. You know I thought being a movie director, I get laid faster yo. I thought the magazine was stupid. John kept saying I want to do this magazine about rock and roll. Because hammocks woman was out there. They at that point was just cream and now cried daddy. I, like Macedonia, roxanne right, wrought argus circus yeah, so you we're kind of going to go anti that that those who are Rock'N'Roll, mags and cream was sort of the rock and roll males that you are going to fight that they were writing about rock 'n roll and such intellectual terms and really yeah, not lester bangs. Yes, he was he was pretty while he was yet. I was quite intellect Well, but it was. I mean it was like writing. I mean he writes a ten. Thousand word review of raw power. Why don't you just fuckin put on the record low
You know what he was, but he defined a sort of rock galleys were criticism yeah. Well, I like richard mouth, her with whole area. And he's a smarty brow, yeah yeah, but he went what then was he working with? Was it boys or call? Yes? Yes, The first time I met richard. I said you don't look so tough and punch me right, stomach, didn't I am but yours at the ocean glum, but you Oh to new york, later right, yeah I came to new york and eighty seven. So there was it was on. It was happening in eighty seven that, like zero cheese and now rewrote she was already done it now. I d just close down much too might disappear, yeah, but what? What? Where do you come from? I came from new brunswick canada wow, so I had older brothers and sisters who brought the records home, so you grew up with the wreck. Yeah I was like in my star war. Pajamas, the headphones, mindless, ignoring the gas and work camps,
you to go to new york as you, like, you said you, we write, poetry that must be part of it known as the first and they went there is like this is home a really. I was ten years yeah, that's when he moved to the lower east side, then I I went to stay with my my uncle george, when I was eleven and I thought I'm going to move here too. Well, you did, did you just have now you're just no? No! No. I felt that because my my family was in jersey and when we'd go visit them. I would take the bus in as a fourteen year old, Nineteen, what seventy seven cool I just walk around Claire. Wasn't a glorious yeah, it was cause you go to like look at all the music stores. That was my thing. I'd go look at guitars, then I go to colony records and then I go down to the village to bleecker bob's right but like for
reason the punk thing was happening that didn't you didn't have to try to catch me. I thought it was. I dont know what it was those using as I'm talking to that. I realise that guy emotionally invested, you know in the lives of these people that you guys talk to daddy, no much those guys like I had the dead boy? new blondie. I knew you know, There remains a bit. I knew the new york dolls. I had those records again, they didn't. You read. stir with me, but there was something about the heartbreak or is it just fucking yield me it's like you guys. You must be You must do our funerals in the last decade, there have been forty. Two people have died from the book: yellow holy shit, yeah yeah, mostly of cancer. Surprise. You think it would have been drugs, but it was. It was my answer. A few hepsey upset you got it secure yeah, they got it. They had. I think they took it. but I am, I know, cats with they happen. They got the cure and it sort of light
here's a sweaty and tired and dying just yeah. But what was your in new york when you got there because I know you write poetry. That did you already feel like. You must be closer to my age, probably and fifty nine. Fifty two majority feel like you, you like he fell to me when I got in new york, even in the in the late eightys, which I guess would be is that when you want yeah right, so I got there First emma zeros and eighty nine that you wanted all that shit to be in place. That was in the book, and it was really on its way out, like there was still dope on the streets in eighty nine crack files right- and I was on second between aid- the heroin, but that all go away and when
Where is left of these guys that you talked to they were just kind of drooping around with their you know, old weather pants. For a year, and then people going like that's the guy yeah, like the the romance of it was sort of you know gone well. That's why we did the book when we did it because for me yeah it was a rapper. You know this whole scene that I had been involved in was really kind of wonderful and great right and, and the challenge for us was, can we recreate it? In just words, you know about that- really was and eternal. Well, what will? What was it? Who is a deal? Is it to do an oral history? I mean that what was based on well a joint and I work became friends. The web maggie asked up Sadly the idea I love her yeah yeah, yeah, ok, you know so, and we were always talk. By writing in doing the f and join in. really loved eighty, the eighty book.
changed my life yeah change, mine too haha. You know here, and I was doing this book- supposedly with dear ramon, who came to me and in you do our cash, I'm frightened. No, he would be able to know he would just go eggs eggs. I gotta talk to. You lags Zena that dd boys and so that it but I started interviewing danny fields, which was just a mate. It was like therapy cause. I was really depressed and when I started the book yeah and I would have to go to danny's and It was in this my depressed because the wave crash now I again, I have done this magazine that failed. My lost a lot of money. You divorce, now just a lot of midwife, not well Also right, I had been working at spin and it had become like pornography. Ok, madonna on the cover this month? Jury noticed that you know yet it just. You know, just oh it's it's you know yet yeah, you know and it
I wanted to form in writing again yeah. You know I wanted to get away from the business chairman. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely so doing, and I were in you know she was at saint marks, poetry project and you are, part of that area. I worked there for years. Yeah. That sort of another sort of nostalgia will always be re day cause. When I got to new york. It was I mean the new york city poetry alive. You know there is a rare books. are we go, hang out with hunky and corso, so I still got some seems the kind of europe itself, while that the people that defined this whole trajectory work really there's so fuckin specific, yeah available restorative available of your alarm, yeah yeah. I don't in money taken coarser, really yeah yeah. He was such a hustler. Really oh and hung keeper hunky with more elegant about it. There always broke out
like you, I had a romance romantic about that, like those guys the beach and I when I grew up in Albuquerque there's a cattle under use bookstores, namely geysers, are important. And I remember there was a poster in there I used to have framed, for it was like me first or second year than europa institute and all go and I burned. those alive and is or not maybe not snyder, but corso in and all men while yet yeah. So there's a big listed ginsburg they're all gonna go for this conference and, unlike you know, I'm right. Annie, and I said a guy, so I gotta get up there he's like what do you want to hang out with those jerry, and I never really thought about it like that now, yeah, just a bunch of old cranky poses, but that's funny cause. I went to neuro puffer are you yeah yeah yeah? How was so much fun? Was he always Ginsburg, rose and wild man in a lesser known, Alice, not late, bernadette mare, it wishes fine meeting. Those people
meeting Jim Carroll, and so when, when you, when you we're we're time at the beginning, the books a year, depressed, yeah, you're excited I waste depressed My dear my mama just died, and it was time to fold up the poetry project and needed something else to do. and we were so new york. I mean when you look back. New york was still grey area compared to what is now right. We are seeing it began to change. I mean I love one were shocked, cause there's a barn two noble, opening its like right. New york is changing and there was a gap on saint marquis ass right. Well, I remember another happy ass right away. What, but I got great shirts there I have heard the industry t shirts. It was pretty practical, nondescript shit, yeah yeah. I know it was cheap. That was also when, like boros when I was on gap, commercials and it s really weird weren't when people were so easily co opted by, but it also was there. There was something about that as much as you may have liked bill that there is something kind.
Like impenetrable about his image, so it wasn't going to really make him now look back now in egg. You spend time with him a little legs Marser I is to go out to Kansas for a week to bite, basically see my friend James grow. also with you guys, vienna and and would hang out with bill, what they like in overtime like I've. I somehow finally got a copy of that documentary. The brows document, which I love you and it was It- was hard to find for well, maybe criterion, put it out or something but just say: I know how you imagine those guys and then just to them. Do the road junky and naked, while it's just sort of the doddering around with cats, this one's really that's all he talked about with cats. feeding, goldfish Amir little fishy fishy believes that, where you that's like, when you realise that so many of these people that the life of the the mind and the literary life is completely night.
Essentially the life there living now now now it's a little bit disappointment I see, would songwriters. You know where you're like this about you. You haven't right, design and made up a guy like that. yeah? I learned that lesson with nick lowe. He was in here and he played the the beast in love to write. But I'm like it's gotta, be his life and he's like putting know. But Nicolo is the coolest guy in the world he's a sweet guy too. I I I was with him and Elvis their fassig allies, Elvis costello yeah we're doing line to cocaine the entire length of the pinball. How you do the whole line or be an asshole yeah euro area. I the worst worst over of many many many years, and that was be the work two days later, yeah right when you finally slap by hand hated coke, yes, but I hated cooking
I can't everyone says I hated coke, but I did it. I loved it me too man yeah. I love didn't last long, but once it was gone, I it wasn't like. I was craving it now. I was never one of those people who often were you know we gotta go out and get you know where it's four in the morning and finished in April and so goes to the guy. Still up like I was always sort of like. Why are you, You have always under your heart I now, but at what else Could you possibly evidence today about nothing I get? I can imagine Elvis costello and blow is easier on an espresso and I couldn't you get another one, but I see you decide. This is the way to do it. So what leads to the oral? What concept interviewing danny field right and Julian was reading the transcripts. Yet in the morning before she went to work, the anchovy says with a yellow highlight- or I remember it was with a purple. Fuckin pot highlight her and she would circling you go you gotta. Put this end. You got
All the stories that are in the buggy and they didn't fit in with the romance cigarette compose. The first I hung up was to do a dd, Boca joined up, saying it's much bigger than that, and it's you know so I just fuck it. Why don't you just do with me yeah, you know so that out and you guys we're friends. Were you romantically involved? Are you romantic? What's going on for five minutes? and then you just start danny says you have to get that out of the way yeah good, good have you got another way out? Obviously, you're not crazy in the way that that would become a liability, no good now, but That's how the oral history is born, but you still have to go out and in track all these people down and talk to them, I mean, and they re pre internet yeah right. Well, if you look at our day books from that for this for your period,
yeah, we're doin interviews around the clock- and we had to just everybody schedule- remember like penny arcade was flying to ITALY in the morning, so we started at midnight and went to I mean I was while I was collapsing yeah at the end of the interview I mean so We really did a la it's funny, though, because like she's, a good example of of someone that you know if you're not what we know, one would necessarily know, penny arcade in her place. In that whole thing, if you guys hadn t pull do out of these people out of the shadows, and we now is, The amazing thing about the book for me was that how how much the community, despite whatever they may, have thought it, what just out of necessity, vienna upon and I learned this again from MIKE what that like punk, was not what the style of music that is now associate with. became. Wasn't it wasn't that it was just a bunch of very creative people doing whatever the fuck yeah they wanted to do your best in it open and any
in that it all happened in the wake of like I thought it was very again jumping- the place that you rat, that, like you, my recollection of the book that you were able to sort of do, what does what thomas wolf did is at issue is a times will phenomenal tom with did with the acid test in the meeting of the psychedelic of of california the psychedelic community of new york that there was a difference and you guys were able to track through warhol Angela reed and then into. If I'm remembering correctly like both tour and how that impact it did know. You know what the connection is or what John Caille produces. The first stooges record and nikko moves into the fund.
and the two are any idea I'll get my landlady. Yet I was having me down. Could that, lady from the record, by giving one those moments like out, she was just for video about all this. Do you hear me goes down markenheim tgv down a notch. I don't think he felt all the now. She was just but vague, ok! Well, I guess you'd fuck envy right. I was with how we pyro the other night, and you know that the famous dj and he's in degeneration being as an amiss, fits and danzig yeah. I said I took a cab with nikko, wants me I shot dope whether an egg is always one office yeah. How are we now await your pen, how he was on the scene at age, fourteen yeah, yeah yeah? I just liked me It's very odd, and I still can't you know round my brain or actors is much drugs, as I did
I never like. I wasn't part of the culture of shooting dope, and it's easy. I was I I was just drunk right. I mean I smoke erroneous, nor did it when it was good and the like what was it in the late eighties when it was a new york where they realise that they could open up a market of kids if they just made it really good. Snort of all- and I guess it's time to try to find a nice way that I can do it without blood didn't like it didn't take, thank god by you hate needle right. Well, it's not that I hate him. It's just like anyone developed that relationship and it seems so sordid and so private and so weird, but the thing that gets medical, medical, but, like anything else, like you figure it out? If that's what you need in I used to see need of all over the place in my neighborhood, but I get the time of the pumping is like they need must have just been likes me In some level there were people that did it and they do it together and they didn't mind watching other people do it and it's a it's, a pretty horrible thing to watch yeah, but it seemed
It was everywhere inches level that whole fucking community, Richard Hell, was the first one a shot of dope in front of me and it was like it was like. Oh wait a minute and he pulled out a drawer, and I was just like everything I do this before we leave the health. Isn't that what they do, yeah. I know I thing in my guide, never like aid, but I know that it must have been everywhere. but but it sort of level that whole fuckin world, then we are. Not all people got sober, yeah yeah, and then they got cancer do gets over like a number of clothes with jerry stall and, like he's been sober, on time and You know when you really think about that life that those guys waved it's like wholly back ass, crazy, so arts or how do you track? these cats down in in what is it? Eighty? Seventy wrote the book. I mean no, no, no, ninety one to we started or you got there, nigga seven. So, like you did you have to sort of do the thing we used to,
touch with everybody. You really like. I don't even know where that guy is yeah. I was actually you know, and and people would help out. Oh, I have his number and they'd give it to you and you call them and, and you know, and out of those people like who was your your greatest resource. Really I mean who's. Who is the thread? Danny danny fails yea emu is where he was a producer right. No, he was them he was. He was the editor of sixty. magazine. I worked for the record company As the rapporteur, cohesion in our guy yeah he's rind. This is due is an empty five on the same was involved. You moors was he? Oh? Yes, you will probably was the first publicists for the domains. Right I mean any has had the most remarkable, clear and the history of career. You he's like that that the dark Sally exactly how he got Nikko album deals after she left the velvet. The ground right danny has been so influential. He he actually put together that modern lubbers, with the Jonathan richmond he's, are guided to figure out. Jonathan it. Oh Jonathan, remoteness, yeah. I wanted
I too am but like I- can keep sort of locked in a thing he had bricklayers. I don't know what is by its very its it there. It it's completely fitting, however, who had arrived, but there's this there's not there's a little doubt. Tat connect ahead, Can I get whatever is ready? yeah, so danny field, he's still alive. Oh yeah yeah, there's a new movie about him by brendan toller called danny says: is it a dock? Yeah yeah, so I will just in london with him. He spoke at the british library a real again. Yet there was a puncak exhibition, a real, a british library. but all that punk happened after the vote in new york. Punk didn't it yet, but it'll at least, while the roma. once came to england on July. Fourth, nineteen seventy six year and launched punk england. That's it wasn't the harbor curse does like. I heard that our breakers got malcolm thought. The harp breakers needed a mean malcolm thought. The sex pistols needed the heart breakers credibility.
Okay, that's why they that's, because he had managed the dolls for a there, so he called up the heartbreaker since had come to her on the anarchy in the uk to her and most of the tour jostled? You re right right, but I talk to you, I'm trying to think who was may be chrissy, Heine or maybe me before he died about that tour of the heart figures in england and people realising like now. Factors is a whole another world now lagging of how to handle rock music but the reason why we were so pissed off in new york. It they are seen as they stole are seen and the music was also really good bs, experts doesnt really did indeed the heartbreak. It was just a great right, you know, so you I did yes at on, but grudgingly bright grudgingly. You know. It seemed like a new york seem always able to like. There was more variety. Yes, yes, I, like you know out of a. I guess the british punk seem yo comes that the scar revival and some other stuff, and so in some of the more kind of god he lyrical bands.
You know, I guess, like a good idea to new york scene was really about our right. We ve got punk was a funny, you know was, right always humorous, like ha ha upon coney island, I'm british apron and make not when they saw the remains and red punk magazine. I took it seriously and was like you kidding you re here. Did you know the religion yeah yeah, he's exactly and that there was an end, but you know that makes sense because of the you know the social structure that when you actually have a dialogue about class, if you're, given a manifesto that you push up against it, even the old fuckin, aristocratic rock scene exact they were like now fuck. You too, everybody, that's cool but, like you know, I think David byrne in an damn natanz remain and, like you know, like the other thing about your boy, it really got me was like gum, is tricky. Man is tricky when You get older and you're sort of like you, MR junker time, so it's hard day like for it not
be some sort of 'em and not a nostalgic, but Kind of I don't know what it is, but there's like that's what surprised me about they're dead duration record there not as old as stooges, but I am like mad. They still In the mean it like your nine something's, not right of the re, like I'm a guy like that something's not resolved right, because women with grown ups. If they've had some success and they're known for something they have a certain amount of self worth or like you, don't feel the urgency any more yeah, but then there are cats that are like that. It's still not good yeah, I'm with that I'm unresolved and fatal unreservedly idea. It's weird. It's because it's not even if it's not like searching for anything is just like a son, something well yeah desserts is we realise the big rip off like you know, you
Do you not only in the media like we do either you're gonna be sort of eiger item a grown up and enjoy grown up things it or else you get too? Is our nature like this is. Finally, I know what a fine really we gotta make what we want to make it anyway. President obama talked about that articulately. the shell? Oh yeah, I know it's like smoking with another dhaka right, yeah yeah is sort of like I gotta decide what I can do and who I am and what my limitations, yet, no there's an immaturity to it. Well, where amateur too so with wood, lou reed a low hated me who hated lou hated me. Why why yeah. I was you know, because we walk see the remains for the first time in lieu reed was sitting area and I went up to said, hey we're. Gonna interview interview know you homes from was playing homes from us.
When fucking metal machine music in a punk dump all that you know that, yet to album noise driving take that shit off. You know put on this yeah, the live version royal yeah yeah, you know put on heroin, put on sweet tea. You know anything but fuckin metal, machine yeah. You know so Johnson yeah what a whom went up to him to us, a john there's, a guy you're, always playing that you know it was Loo and I set gal. We gotta interview united, simplification. We we didn't know what we are doing here. You know and John one up Sophia will even put on the cover and lurie deadpan air circulation must be fabulous what was right about that is Holmstrom turned it into a cartoon cause. He asked here, you know John was a big. This is maria and he asked him what his favorite. You know, cartoonist worthy said: walls, wally, wood and stuff, like that
roman style, boy, style, bollywood, it was very cool, very funny. Lou love the magazine and and started hang out with John, and I remember I a black out. It was Clive Davis's birthday, we're sitting there with kiss diana Rossiya. All these and and and Lu Lu is sitting talking to homes? German? I am point on homes from sleeve going. Let's go downtown. Let d artagnan with these old people. You know you know, let's go pick up checks, what fuck what lou was boring and he got feel that he would. He wouldn't even look at me and I be be sitting right next to him. I just got used to it tat you the or the nuisance. Yes, the agony. I was a kid union attitude care facts at yeah yeah. So when you look But now I mean like what are you guys,
you got it I mean in terms of defeat like like something has been lost. Do you think I can terms of what that all meant? You know how do you frame it for yourself intellectual. Your emotionally now has grown ups, the book yeah, I mean I just answer. Of light being part of it like what he wouldn't yeah and you are, you're part of the document by the view is part of your lack of resolution. The fact that that that, as we move, their away from the birth rock and roll everything is kind of fragmenting in decline, and in garbage? No, I think we're both very proud of it because
if we can get everything emotionally. It feels accurate to me right. You know, and I think the great thing about the book that everyone has overlooked. Thank god, nea and I'll mention it now and then will forget about it is that for the first time, history was taken out of the hands of the elite, academics and people with a pan, sonic tape. Recorder yeah did and did did it so well right that it's undeniably well rough and when you were in in terms of the structure, the book which, like I said before, resonated with me, I mean how did you, how did you track that? How how did you decide to involve the mc five who, whose decision legs. Why? I just it was, you know it was happen. They made clear its cause and effect rising. What you just follow the trail and that's why
later when you ve got put their queer theatre in theatre. The ridiculous I was pretty remarkable will now has an obvious that was dear, but would they hit do we got? handed to you. I know is that like among them blank the in the book there, everybody becomes sort of it, the underground are seen we cooler than being a rock star right being. I am We have been an anti war holes, pork and right. John VA, cairo and charles led them that these the theatre ridiculous idea and everybody had kind of patty smith had done stuff with sam shepherd yeah and David Johannsen and winked and jane county those across oh yeah. so we had also the whole idea of word is glitter. Come from writing, so we had to track. Where were you? physical literally literally. Where does glitter come in and it started at the theatre, the ridiculous? really, and there was a girl jean a bone. Yeah who was doing something and she had all these transcripts gave them to me. He asked
I know about these will help me out wags right, like yeah yeah piano, so so so I was just from you being there and connecting the dots around that scene and how they are all feeding each other. I didn't know most of the stuff we didn't know most of this we didn't know, you're doing, did we now we just kind of made it went along. Will you laura you? You know it's good. No, you are only agenda. Our mission statement was to prove that punk, it start in new york and not london, india, but other than that we have the story from the participants. Will. That was what, as the genius of it, it was some weird mixture of like whatever created the the the whole scene and then this infusion of troy right and right through the am C4 yeah yeah yeah back always coming in producing both lou an egg in right. You know, saving energy saving overnight again we need the guy
very sturdy. I would didn't know what the fuck to expect when he came over here who achy yeah, oh yeah, how was he great yeah? It was very funny because, like you know, I didn't I don't know him. I dunno any People really- and I, You know I was excited and we had a tight time for some reason, but you know when one way more comes up. His publicists gets out and and and she's like he's in the car behind and amicable. How is he wears yet is lucid what what because I don't know you didn't even know rawlins. It told me that there is a difference between german egg yeah, and you know when you talk to Jim talk, you do a very gale numeric, while his parents were college boy. Yet I don't know yeah, you know, but I didn't know what kind of damage you've done. I think in your book was the first time I read about him rolling around in glass and everybody going what the author yeah. That was the other thing that is really I just now. It's all coming back to me, too, is that I had not put the the stooges into perspective, I didn't know their story until I read your book.
You know what either half way we kept. I've been go back to an arbour tinted with the Ashton's were great. Cathy yeah ron and scotty beyond. Scotty, of course, were in the studio vienna. but we have kept them to go back to ann arbor over and over again, because it was like Weymouth this to disconnect here. We need to get this theo rise. Very frustrated, but also the thread was danny fields because he designed empty five stooges. I'm went onto the ramones yeah, I dont know if the book would have worked without danny yeah, but like that hold the connection between them survive stooges, but also when you really think about you, you know that the the attitude of york, punk, rocky sort. It happens at that egg issue in a well yeah, yeah zat original yeah, that's the moment earth. At that moment, punk becomes put right when he cuts the glass right, an outcome, took him to the hospital you yeah yeah like hey jam, I think about it. When I actor
I first met alistair, he invited me. I kicked, came out tat, land and interviewed him. He has again, I was I was like you know. Wayne and wanes world I'm not worthy some party and in turn, rancid legs. You, you know I was coop. You know I had any said. Of course I know like a house just like a little journal, but he said to me. You know we were kind of faking it. You know we were teasing our hair and putting on our I may write this too. Just were really it. You know he said in a cup saying housed out Jim house egg it I You know he really he really loved. What alice is another guy that, like with the connection of you, know through zappa and through whatever? However, he came to be like. I just listened to one of the old records today, because I was supposed to interview him. It didn't happen, but that you know was the real deal, art rock guy, he's he's. If you listen to his radio show here, he knows every thing, but about
right, but you know he rose, I'm gonna artists. Early records are talking out guy now, their great great, always loved to death and killer and schools out and oh yeah, yeah billion dollar baby. Sure, ok, you know no eyes not just as apis step. You snob ardent era, new snob, why just dissociate m is sort of theatrical hit maker? I didn't really know that the old record so like because those records when you go back and listen to your love it to death, no killer in your schools. I will not have a kind of lowering it's not ok. I just I was in an. How is a group of it, though there you go. Ok that was, because I can't wait to the party with everything I mean. I grew up. The only acts I had two weird music. Was this guy worked at the record store next to the bagel place? I work at my school. It's always a guy at the record of any other. We ve gotten. So many people like he wrote down the woman who wrote something and bus, she said that the guide wrote down. Please kill me out a piece of paper and gay
towards a bit go get the golly. I am more than I do now to be all that. I am satisfied I fucking copied by egypt, but he told me on your fuckin art music, like gum ino Residents Fred, for Iran has obviously like I took, I judge Robert Fred, my job to step back. I missed I dont, like I still can't, was an account can crimson, but I do know where it was right, and so I miss the punk part of it, but I was off into this other fuckin world, but so heavy so public confidence. Nicky comes up and he gets out of the car and then he's got this tall woman with him very tall and I walked out to allow nervous yeah he's one of the guys it makes me nervous. If you need anything, you know get yeah. I've made it with the bomb the drive and you need water somebody. So he goes I need to to refresh and I'm like I, don't know what yeah so then he comes up and there there's a bunch of them people with him and they're out there on the deck, and I'm like what
Go in. There is like our right and any just takes a shirt off and starts doing. we're tired. She is working things. He goes what's go so he sat there short lessons and indeed the egg eating, but he's so fucking is met. we pay. Now, oh yeah. He knows every some do just genetically he's, so our Thirdly, even shatter the shit like you, some brain dead, mother fucker around you're. Just like he's, not it's not it's. Almost everything we know about the difference between eighty and Jim is like two different bodies. If you want to talk about being nervous year during the to be talked gillian. Oh, I would now we just met a deeper birdies. He suggested it. Llanos is well or them aligning on forever and argue for an arm. He came in with a salary, green sure, unbuttoned to his belly button. I see three, the scars. You could see that
see the maxim scar, vienna last, but I've never had a crush on energy, but in person it was like. I just did it hadn't register how good looking and then legs keeps leaving gave a cigarette num like no stay, so he was a tongue tied under the draft. We do. We will, then. I think that like that anything is like you know, when you talk to these all british cats about you know, I got realize it in talking you that, like I've talked to who, if I talk to you like terry reed, richard thomson, lead, is there anyone who is it like an of when he was there but tat caille one night? John cale, but but I'm talking about that that knighted Jimi hendrix played that show in english because of what
name his manager, that keep order from the from the animals at set up. That shown invited all those mother and it just it change music. All those cats are those booze dude in all your clapton, whose happened there. They are all part of all sorts of around you. So now they gotta go see the new gaia any. It was just sort of like what the fuck happened and music change forever. Yeah, terry retail, the best story he's at that gig and he said he always went to that that pub anyway, so he's in the back, and so everyone's ere. You know, like all the good everyone page clap their all. There, and he said, the music you he opened with wild thinking, just turned it inside out and then advocate how Brian Jones comes. You know he's like sweating and is coming out of the crowd and he walks up to Terry reid, and he says it's it's horrible up there. The flooding in terry reads like what are you talking about? It's like the water. It's like it's! It's it's hard
we're born into her youth like what are you talking about, like all the guitar players are cry. Yeah ryan ryan is one of those guys, Brian Jones, where you don't, you don't really have the, if a personality know yet because you just know that he may, like maybe a genius druggie guy who, whatever but lighted that use at witty may be very who'd. You find you guys were who is right, the funniest most kind of like provocative, rack and tour of the of the crew that you doubtless Lee, told her. It was one of them. which woozy he was target for a hog refer india. He took a he lived with turkey in the hollywood hills.
The remember hand- yes, yes, he told them that forget. That's from your book were the very did stooge from their three stew. Yes right, yeah yeah, which stooge went over to visit wary up around our. I knew you would go visit Larry, as is not the sweetest stories, the greatest early. So I know I know, and he was writing and the doktor said to Ronnie were so glad you come to visit. It was Larry right. Yes, it was less Larry, for three larry fine from the three really have gone: the old folks daily, however, the old folks arm and regular yeah, but he had had a stroke and before and he started visiting me. I couldn't really speak brian and ronnie you're talking to ronnie
our targeting yeah isn't out. Maybe they may so it is that seventy one sixty nine, which seventy one they were in the house and our another. Seventy three: seventy our sitting around this house partying and what compels run Ashton to go over to the sea. Larry fan wealth cause. He would, he would say but the speedometer he was already yeah yeah yeah, oh yeah, he was the one success, we are carrying out here. He was so beautiful that they're leaving this party than anti, where they're just squandering their record, deal money or whatever the fuck is happening, going over- there was so much man. That's romney's whole think such accreditation. Member says that over and over we used to call each other. We would talk in the language of the book. So I just called Julian opened. Go should go hello and I go such decorative fashion so who's? The bands, like you know, obviously this whole scene use your kind of spawned. You know
modern, rock and roll and a lot of ways. Yet is india that whatever the british, the british would seem is doing by, but the bands it really that that still just out of air that really became huge were who like, when you think of like we're talking out? No, no one who the hell. That's? Why Gillian J I kept said, and she kept saying this book As I said, didn't I thought people with like the great thing The book is, you don't have to give a shit about any of it exactly in that, like you know, when you get into it you what there's always guys. You know that that, like like stand behind any jeanne you get on the mother, fucker stole my shit. Yes, like going away if there's a genius there's a bitter guy like you ramble jack and bob Dylan Joe answers in Lenny Bruce always felt like tat, like there's no david byrne without Tom Berlin, like qatar, why's that I for some reason, I thought that you have to confirm it or not, but never lane with a better guy.
Not the bitter guide, but they got like clear. We gave it took it in Gaza. what the thai minors, but you know if you listen a marquis moon. I came in U s into his guitar playing to me, I mean it's like fuckin, astounding, yeah and white. There are guys like came out of that and in obviously there geniuses and were able to to move two other worlds. No one's get stuck the guys who really make an imprint allotted are the ones that can evolve. But it's to me that that David was- and I talked to him- was bit of us a sponge and abuse worked a lot of stuff and bite, like obviously of real fuck ingenious, but Were you there for there we saw them early on. I saw them the second I went to see the remains were interviewed. Lurid I went back to CBS. This place is great. I'm going back. I went back by myself and saw the talking heads the next night as a three piece, and they were great like seventy six. Seventy seven, seventy five really
yeah when there were three pieces came, imagine their fuckin places. I why I went on talking had enough funds com, rwanda, We read like the unknown and was good, but you still differ. Right and everything else, fucking indifferent, while it was it, was so accessible via what was there was no. There was no velvet ropes, there was no bodyguards. There is no security. There was none of this that there is today you mean all the music with different yeah yeah, right of all that it be all paired together in one. Well, that's why we call upon comes yeah. It was just one attitude, yeah yeah, and I realize that the new york alvar really, but before everybody on that seem, oh yeah, the dough, The dolls were already rock stars right. You know in that same yeah yeah, David Johannsen johnny thunders there already. You know they figured it out, they figured out how to hot rod? What was left of the sixties into something fucking new and why yeah and there were fund
I know. Would David Johansen like a burlesque, show yankee address exactly yeah yeah. He seems like fine guy! Do you still got to him Johannsen or what now I've! Only madame lines- I I don't know, I'm ok, no did David kind of turned bitter after he got sober, oh yeah, pistole, People as you re supposed to go the other way. I note my work here. I hope you're right. I do the were supposed to be happy. Joy, im free, they say yes, I I think we have a girlfriend and his wife I used to date. Oh that doesn't you don't want to yeah you don't wanna yeah yeah that stuff going well. You know, as you get older, and you know if you're untethered for long enough you've got a lot of eskimo brothers out there. Yes, others. I love that. I have many eskimo brothers nose is kind of surprising, so it's kind of surprising you're like oh, you did oh shit, so I guess we're attached to vow, but you know what I have to say something yeah, my best friend who who runs our website
tom Herndon goes guenaud mark marin's, always referencing. Please tell me you should iran. This tour, I said, will call the off, but you know we have this publicity guy YAP, Jonathan martyr. I call me off. You suggested we I'm tired. yeah he acid, so he did and then you said yes, so it was kind of like. Oh, this is that'll, be fun. I tell ya, I I'm glad that I got the email, so thank him for me for talking to me, thanks, tommy and and like yeah. I love the book and I hope it it'll live forever. It's an important book and a fun book and it's a it's a brain blower. store cleon, just musically, because you're so many people that there's so much stuff out there that you know- when can put anything in the contacts in a lot of things, get missed right and it's one, those books where not unlike any book on music of the past, that it has not mainstream you're we in this. What happened to me is that meet there's no late to the party with music as it exists.
Ever exactly like you know when you enter the world, you know it's all new and that's the experience I have with them. Like I didn't know, any of this either did we then it's fucking. He changed everything you know like in now. Like there's a lot of stuff, I listen to and there's a lot of stuff. I can sourcing and reference now that and it also Jesse expire. of listening that music. I just did you get that fuckin org record set? Now? I am neither curly bach, really it's so good I gave a monetary or contribute for that. You did what We know you do you have the box, we had the only terry that's when Jillian came up with the title. Yes, because we we went to san diego terry, had been casket and nowadays had just gotten out of These were the guy from work reykir, yet its humanitarian work he's not alive anymore. Now now he died very soon after that. But what was a story with that label? Will he was putting he put out his factory? Eighty smith had dismissed on a put out. Blanked interracial marriage is the best version of the. I had him, yeah
and he put a put out tons of stuff. You know he was alone gay guy, who get you knew teriyaki right. Terry was great yeah now and always by a beer he uttered by commander. You got it. go away legs. He was great and these guys in Chicago what were we I don't know nice guys number there yams leg, they told me we have the only terry ork interview we did them, for few, while you our yeah, it was interesting to heed, also been in, for he was older. Vs he'd been involved in like the southern caliph, lsd scene where other relevant for the warhol seem to right, yeah yeah. He was as I like to hear. What does he, I think some out chilton on there in that area of jobs is already interesting area and therefore, like you,
richard hellenes in berlin, and I think gum cheetah chrome, maybe is on the yes. Yes, yes right, it's like the productive that that this of it. I think, was very important that it is clean. It was near. The production was like really let the the music b and it was really it's a great fuck embargoed in and get it on vinyl also their source reason. I associate you not not necessarily in friendship, but your interview touches on the arctic. There he introduced me and my husband, negative yeah yeah he's he somethin he's out there he is so smart guy. I know yes, my boy earlier and I with you. I was nervous about that. I would be too because he's hard he's not an easy access now and he's hard to find. Like I was in new york and I had to you know you got to track him down through this email address. You don't know if he's going to show up and they come like this will guide you get him go and give you get him If you get em worked up which it doesn't take, my child go you I got a region.
There is a new book. I want to read about the Jesus book. I gotta read write that yet, while there's a that's another like between please kill me an fuckin arm dino. You know what a great book so fucking great book, yeah great book rather the jury louis, the whole family ass. How my sunny wisdom hell firing? I think how far is the best rock n roll book ever written I think I don't like this prayer It can never air and also there is a battle between good and evil he's the first cousin with jerry Falwell, so yeah, I know he's, show yeah, but he also shows up at Elvis presley's in his drunken, smashed the levant aid and you're, not the king, I'm the king, lock you gotta redoubt yeah. I know I will grow oak. Good luck with the the resurrection. the hang around a copy, ok, yeah. We want anyone, oak ardor deal or Al right. Racism, punk rock records,
get energize well thanks for listening. I enjoy then please like go guys. It still smoke. I don't know why not smart, but I do not smart to do it. I dare that's the way you want to go out to do it ass anyway. media part that comprise devotee of five needs. I will play guitar for those. We were hardly disappointed. Next time I gotta go. I gotta go act as we do burma
Transcript generated on 2022-09-05.