« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 773 - Bruce Springsteen

2017-01-02 | 🔗
Marc leaves the cozy confines of the garage and heads to New Jersey (where else?) to talk with The Boss. Just two Jersey guys hanging out, talking about dads, depression, fear, fulfillment, and the future. Bruce tells Marc how and why he constructed "Bruce Springsteen" and what he's learned about the struggle we all go through to become who we really are.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
The guy I'd Bob's words do this? How are you what the fuckers, what the fuck bodies, what the buccaneers, what the fuck sticks what's happening What is happening happy new year or its new year here we go yet better. Happy new year here we go again. Hang on this one's gonna be nuts that's a diplomatic description. I think I made no resolutions, I had some Some idea that maybe I would change them things it. Maybe I will I kind of stuck in my habit indrawn lines. I don't need a reason to a dead the shit out of myself something and naturally, maybe my resolution should be now to do that. How about that one about what not beat the shit out of ourselves Can you do that? Because there is a difference. Here is a difference between
beating the shit out yourself in being hard on yourself, my Ass today is bruce Springsteen, the boss. From jersey? I went to jersey and I yeah just Tell you more about that about that experience in a second by I was right. His book, by immersed myself in a lotta, bruce's, music and- and I read most of his book, adding get through it. I got just pay. As the darkness. The edge of town, it's pretty chronological from his childhood through his music, through his experience with his father, do out about his relationship with John landau is producer. Who was originally music rider and his great friend and a lot of other relationships and his wife but it's written beautifully. It's very poetic. It's very self aware this is definitely bruce Springsteen. Looking back in reply, thing and seeing hooey who he was and he is, but The interesting thing for me was that I notice that he's very hard on himself in that resonated with may because he's
He is a a one of a kind a prolific he's amazing entertainer. He moves millions of people. People love him Any hard is hell on himself and I started thinking about the difference between your being hard on yourself and beating the shit out yourself. That is different and I think that the difference is it's it has to do with your drive. You know enemy, it's it's! It's! It's like gum! if you beat the shit out of yourself, you just driving yourself into the ground. If you're being hard on yourself, you might get better. you might, dr yourself to get by but it is a very fine line has something to do with your disposition. I mean If you think you saw, can you just tell yourself that all the time I suck without any recourse or at work without any forward thinking, it's a disposition I suck I've convince myself again that I suck your hard on yourself and you think you're great
is not as good as you want to be yet then you might a better I mean it's just that it's a mild adjustment, but sometimes people just comfortable in second and too two bowen self pity into comfortable, and you know I'm fucked them that mildly judgment to too I can show you, I'm fought, but get better and pre fuckin good and that's it. That's what they're bruce Springsteen had. Obviously, yeah yeah tell encourage, you will also determine the outcome and one of those is sort of god, given the other one, to earn somehow, but bang it at all bruce, if you let me, do a little a little new york new year's stuff here in the beginning, That would be nice. You can, scramble on forward if you want, but but I have some things to say, The day before new year's eve, I watched Adam courtesies, new documentary for normalization and
I would highly recommend you go, find nothing. It's a If a piece of journalism It's a very interesting two and a half hours that will expand your mind blow your mind. I'm not going to say it's going to give. You hope a may be a little bleak in some ways, but at least you'll have the information, and I don't want to tip too much, but it starts get it there it tracks to stories at the beginning, one beginning damascus, in nineteen seventy five and alongside of that new city in nineteen. Seventy five and he's able to start there and run through all levels: politics, our money technology, any disorder, poles back the veil on some things, frame things in a way through history and through connectivity, and and film making will really blow your fucking mind so in the new year I would recommend that You can get a little depth.
in terms of what is really happening and I believe it's in there and I don't believe that too often so heading into the new year. I got an email that too, I think, is a nice way to start the new year. If I could It's the subject line is w E f can make babies happen mark in the people of wmd. Have I just want to share a little story with you for the new year. Bear with me Five years ago I moved from london to Barcelona. I left my friends my job in my city of eleven years, all for a woman. This might sound like the beginning of one of those stories of woe and heartbreak, which ends with me living on the street in europe, so close yelling at strangers in collecting plastic bags, but it isn't. The last nine months have been pretty wild. My girlfriend got pregnant in the midst of me and my buddy pushing to finish building on a documentary that we are working on. I left my job and started working for a great company. Meanwhile, my girls belly grew and grew, and I panicked weight at night when no one was around. I read shitty parenting books. I looked for wisdom from fathers and mothers I walked. I cried,
it dumb songs and movies? I thought about my ego and being a dad. I felt far away from my family and my friends. So nine months later, the due date came and went two days hot bath. Three days, massage for days A spicy curry five days, a long, walk six days, a fight. We tried everything on the seventh day. I was doing the dishes and listening to an episode, and I decided on impulse it. I would put my headphones on her stomach and let my little girl here some of your final guitar new doing and a little boomer lives. The little Ben in the oven kicked up a storm in a short twenty minutes. Later her water broke that contractions came every eight minutes, then six, then five, then four, then three I ran around like a loon and got everything ready. I pulled up the car and we left for the hospital for our labour marathon an emergency c section later, my sweet baby girl gretta was brought into the world can meet her alone in a little room off the operating theatre. While my girlfriend was being stitched back together, I left her there again on impulse and we just hand
my daughter and left alone, in a tiny room. She was calm staring up at me. I had tears streaming down my face I was thinking of your episode with, but lucy kane how he cried telling the same story. I could, then listening to it, and I cried when it happened to me and I'm tearing up a little now anyway, man she's beautiful, she made a shitty year feel like it never happened and she made this shitty person feel like he can never be shitty again I spend christmas what my girls, I feel, like a new man, I feel like a dad. It's in their mark. I highly recommend it well, if not go crazy pal. I just want Thank you for what you do share something with you and thanks for all the brilliant people who have told their stories on your show- and I wanted to personally thank you for your cry of boomer lives which sparked babies mind into this wife, If you read this or not, I just wanted you to know. I love you. Marin can't wait for us steam Gretta lives, neil in barcelona, so bruce Bruce Springsteen.
So Brandon and I tried to jersey, here's how come into bruce I put to new york Because I had this opportunity to spend an hour with Bruce Springsteen the boss mythic person. he is unto himself here. The boss is bruce, brings you and funny thing is I like bruce thing, but I'm not crazy. You know and I'm a fan, but I'm not like. Oh god, and that was helpful because and through most of his catalogue, listening to it again, most of it and really kind of entering the world of Bruce Springsteen at the age. I'm at now fifty three getting a new appreciation for things that I was familiar with. I remember when I was a teenager. I had the great from us We park. I had the e shuffle record at born to run I the river about nebraska, I Definitely in and the weird
think about getting the opportunity to interview miss. I was going back in new jersey now I don't know how many of you know this sum. You do. I mean new jersey boy born in new jersey? Both of my parents are from new jersey. left new jersey, very young, but I'm new jersey, genetically new jersey, that's just the truth of it as I was preparing in my mind, to talk to bruce knowing that I had an hour. I need it to somehow with him, as many of you who is into the shall, I really wanted to connect personally with Bruce Springsteen and I knew we were both genetically new jersey he's asbury park area and my great grandfather, owned army surplus door and Tom's river. My answer Lives down and oh kirsty, I used to go to deal beach and asbury part. My grandparents, women. Apartment at the end of the asbury park. Boardwalk, I have that in my life in my past,
and when brendan and I drove out to the jersey shore at a lot of that thinking. I was thinking a lot about that. My grandparents are buried in Elizabeth just off the highway is like trying to find some gene the connection to jersey again and then to connect with Bruce Springsteen. Who is one of the one of them? powerful representatives of jersey, so heading into it. That's right! thinking about and that difficult when and I have this with a lot of musicians when you have an hour an hour would Bruce, brings you I'm going to his house. We drive in we get there early. You ended up going to Dunkin donuts or I got jacked up in eight. You know two muffins and a giant dunkin donuts coffee. and then we drove out to the the estate, the farm we went through security. We were shown to this separate building, it look like a stable, but it was a studio, and we were met by the publicist in a guy who worked for bruce a carpenter on the property hooked up the plot.
Simply descent, and he just left us in this room with like yeah, a hundred or so guitars acoustics, electrics, keyboards of all kinds yeah huge board. There is a separate living room area and a bathroom we had coffee. There are some krona there, and we were just air hanging around for half an hour and I touch a guitar. I just it didn't seem like there's another impasse studio. The heads motorcycles in it, but was beauty it was our beautiful and you know the excitement was re starting to build. and then I'm just working out the window, and I see bruce walking down from the house just perspiring scene can walk in. around the corner, into the into where we are and he walked in And I said there: hey man, I do I just why not in touch any other guitars. He went all ok as our nice qatar that play guitar by in touch any good in any walk me around. Show me some guitars. You show me that he had somehow found the fur
his guitar, he played in the first at the first set up, it wasn't the original equipment, but he had here now found the first pieces. equipment he had as guitar? Where are these? We there a few tallies around, but there's a lot of different types of guitars. We talk, if the a little off mike and then we see down and we got into it. And they were just some. You know this was one of those things where I was They too were, I wonder, relate and get to know bruce springsteen and housing. was an amazing experience so. Before I get into this. I need to tell you that day. You know you can get his book, the memoir born to run and the audio companion chapter and verse there there there available so they're out there and have enjoyed the but very much but damn. But that aside, who Ok, this is me and bruce. In the end, the boss in new jersey. Studio sitting faced it.
Face the shores. We used fifty eight financing, which the ones where we used back in the first band. They were there, they were they the never body, and they were the straight ended all really have. There was a high end of what every every, local rock band used. But if you had your you're my gear, you, you were good. Fifty? What amplifier three p, a all right, just like one speaker to speak or two speakers to column speak a descent in then the box with the knobs. Yes right on columns right right, right you see at any event, then, if you had any sort of echo rigged up you're way way way ahead of the game:
the other raw goods of rock and roll, a very simple did I say you don't need, don't you know like anything now we don't need alone. You know I've read years where be honest with you with the book, I'm right it, I'm right. I just finished doc illness. Okay, so, like I, I didn't get to the end as it unhappy. Is there a happy ending that you have you'll have to finish it and tell me you're not clear on yeah, I it's like it's a beautiful book. You know, because when I and I walked into It- and I just kept going with it so now I I feel like I'm in your head, and now I have to get out of your head and into the present here. Okay, how now, when you're sitting around, where are you getting you're, getting ready for christmas now correct yeah? so it doesn't ok us up there. Now you are correct my thought. My whole family from jersey, I've never really exemplars a little kid
and you know it s very park, like my grandparents lived in asbury park down at the end of the boardwalk, in that one white building and these pictures of me in of boats, through a swan right, they're, the ones in the witness circle demand. There was right there right all those both yeah yeah, the little the little circle to sir. Yes, ten power, but that's right any back. Remember those of course- and then I remember it got real shitty there, but I like, I was thinking about it. It's a weird thing and I'm going to tie just talking for a minute cause. I talked to my dad cause. I wanted to track where my food before I came over here, Like my great grandfather, owned, a surplus army surplus store in Tom's river bright, and my young, then all of a sudden, my father, I said- yeah, my father, you go down too, has very park and he go to a springfield there you do whatever the hell you spring. What evans brengwain tat? He got involved with white like the there, these bits of info.
Asian cause, my relationship with my comments, not grady, based around and at you get these bits of information about your parents. or your grandparents and all of a sudden. You like holy shit, is high. world. I can understand that they lived in yet bring whatever new was. Was spot in town for a long time had fish clothing store. Yes, the least if the fly store. If you were looking for right latest, the latest rig yeah. so were people too will from all over, to go to fishes clothing store on spring whatever and work it was. It was that there was a black neighbourhood, yeah, primarily yeah, yeah. It was weird that you, you get this secret history of your family guy guiding get the feeling that my grandfather was going down there for good reason and I dont know like when I, when I read the book, the struggle,
become who you are seems to go all the way through That's what we're all doing right, but I think I know that you and when I went like, as identified so strongly with the father stuff, where you know you sort of left on your own to do there, Do you know what I mean yeah. That was the that was part of the problem. Is that all part of the solution in retrospect. Do you think when you think about your man, we are We will now too, and I made this- is too heavy to start out with. But are you able now too to see that, like you know, which party that, you got good, of course, yeah yeah, Joanna. Looked back, you know he had his own archy forget one you're probably have an hour. Travels. I was sixteen which would have made him, then I think Thirty one, too young
you know so he's the young guy runner. He was still in the city areas is, is mental issues and then he was also deep into sorting. he had never sorted those things out for himself shrinking a lot to vienna yeah yet the beer beer, so my folks left de in nineteen sixty nine, which was little unusual. Usually you leave them, but they left me in new jersey. Eighteen, sixty nine and went to California right that sort of left you on your own to continue. parenting yourself as best as you could. and you know your life was your life. Was yours from that point on right now
that suited me yeah, I it was it was. It was just one things for where I was that I was independent already I had the ban. I had my own little community that I was part of. I was made a few bucks on the weekend. So I could. I could survive I was happily independent right sore not making a lot of money, no recourse unanimity are making twenty dollars right, but anybody they couldn't live on twenty or forty dollars, Eighteen, sixty nine having no dependence in rail. You any He could do that you're right so with different time, yeah minuet fur, three three hours a day or two hours a day was all you is to it was it was. It was just enough money to get by the good time on and when when you started playing rock n roll when you start playing like when you decided that that was gonna, be it
What sort of fascinating about me this stuff? You have to listen to music. My whole life that you all had this sort of this working ethic about that it wasn't. It wasn't. Gonna come easy, ever re rain that that that you know you, maybe you in particular. I don't know how other people do it we're going to have to work twice as hard as anybody else well as long as you didn't expected to come, easy were fine, you know, and also work was part of a project, if self realisation yeah that everybody has to go through in those early periods of their youth through their twenties and into their authorities here. So I had it tool. That is did me in In doing that, you know it was the the collecting of thoughts. In song and the the
measuring of my progress. through music. Here you know not necessarily through success, ripe through the music itself is getting better. am I getting better, and I am I get becoming more realised as a musician and then four, hopefully as as as a human being, and so This whole project working on from when I was freely fourteen years old and I was deeply deeply deeply involved. that was giving my life to follow a centre. Meaning joy, fun and I was sort of merrily just working the coal mine, you know, ryan, I didn't problem with that as I got older than I,
and to the radio and start to think or gm I'm as good as a lot of those guys here. You know Why am I undiscovered which of course, there were a lot of reasons in those days you were in your minds will benefit. Each does be a new juries people, just it was the local localism of the music scenes in those days was was all so no one came down from new york, yet let's go discover somebody in asbury park. Not gonna. Have you know, let's take him, let's, let's take our a and our guys down to the jersey shore and see who's fabulous down there. No there wasn't going to countries cover bands to it. Yet you said that right of armed be stopped
was not a lot of original music. Now it was all your sort of cover bands that worked all the shore club's yeah cause. The shore was sort of a faux fort lauderdale. At the time right, you know, and so they say in the book we had to dig out. A little bar was doing no business right ass, the guy. If we could play for a dollar at the door, didn't, raise by air and go to work today and yeah work there. Now, when you are gone through all this, like you're, the one thing I get back to that idea that it seems to me that you know from the small bits and pieces you talk about your family or there's a lot about your family, but those moments. What you're old man it's like, he added fuck you attitude to him. Well, I mean just about the visit that things that outside of him yet it wasn't so much Zad that as he was just.
he was just lost within himself here like the project, and I am describing, was one but he didn't under, he never undertook, If you dont undertake that project you you're lost in the wilderness at a certain age, rail, and and so. I always look at my dad is, is, of course anger and and and straight humiliation, but he was all is the guy that was lost in the wilderness It never undertaken that project to find your course and and steered towards something so. and of course what I was doing, look ridiculous to because it my as it might do apparent looking at their kiddies spending. ten hours in the day, just wagon
the guitar I had their room now, but. when you think that was it, that it was just that you know he's not he's not self realised and and and he had depression and on time, Yeah. Do you know all of those things sort of contributed to. I think what he would felt was an unsuccessful life, which is not necessarily how I look upon it right now. I mean he had three children he raised. Solid citizens in my mother was was fabulous partner and an there was actually a lot of joy in his life Think he was, he was too at sea himself to appreciate it and he had put it on top of it. He was truly mentally ill and that As the shadow over over every, he didn't know that
several now he's see- certainly didn't know it in the end. Really neither did the rest of us until we were problem, We entire our twenties and he was in his forties. You know well into his forties, said: that's a tough moment to to, like you now to sort of have to make that decision of giving them a pass. The out of empathy and compassion We are holding onto your own resentment yeah well at some point as never, believer in holding deep. For the most part in for theirs yeah. Yeah is ill. Your parents or someone new you love them regardless. and So I was, this more interested in who he was what that had to do with me. also how I could be of service and helpful. Once I realized that
was going to be the parent and he was gone. Be the child that happen, happened when he got very ill and he needed be taken care of and my mother had a limit to because of a relationship with him was limited as too discipline, she could be with him so occur. Fell on me, to get california, foreign, again, a medicating I had again to the doctors, all of which he resisted resisted resisted doing, but he began the danger to himself and to others, and so it was announced I'm reserve norway was just paranoia, gives a frantic with they call at the time is now and his out with these diagnosis, ended on air really and so on. pretty intense cause. Your hearing voices in an ear
you're becoming very manic you're. You know you're going for days without sleep in ITALY. engaged in very manic behaviour and at some point he became very a risk to himself in and to my mom and into the citizen free at large, so I had to go out and try to assist him in getting better. You know which we were able to do after quieter. battle so get him Can it be locked up in medicated then taken out here at the end of the year to get tree and then in the correct medication and ended improved his life greatly. Towards the last fifteen twenty years of his life wow. Well, that must be amazing feeling as it signed it, Able to show up for that, Yeah it was, it was bitter sweet,
It was good, you know an undersea improve and he enjoys family and he was never going to be, normally was going to be a normal father. You know you we're going to get a I'm proud of you, son yeah, you weren't, going to you know, get too much of that. so yeah to accept that fact and new take take take things what they were and enjoy what you could get in and not, at some point. You near obviously lose your anger about the rest, because you see with somebody who had to struggle very difficult, the atom. Losing anger. Is a sort of a weird thing because It's a choice, when you're in it. It doesn't feel like you have a choice. Well, Why one year, in it without understanding or but there are, as I say in the book, There are also irretrievable relationships where
events have occurred that their relationships don't come back for a moment. I know plenty of people who had to sign off from their families for a variety of reasons, yet for good, healthy reasons and move on with their lie right, so that happened to hear, but if the relationships are retrieval, I've I've Like my wise, then It's it's. It's there's a nice pay back in and see things. it'll come closer and began little more healthy to go a little bit. let go of the look. Look back on your anger is a part of youthful misunderstandings in of course you had your reasons in and there was bad behaviour in know. My papa could be very when he was young and
it's not that you let that slide. You live with it. It's a part of your life, if you're lucky, fuel for the fire you norman people do end up in my circumstance, Who generally had these very placer, loving, very happy fulfil lives, it's not how you become Can roll story. I know you gotta have chaos tumult disastrous relationships, humiliation at a young age field, disempowered. Enormous amount of weakness and seven Things start to burn, burn, burned, ia and when they murdered starts. If you take, at flame, and you aim towards the right thing: powerful weapon and powerful gift and powerful. We're lucky and add the talent, so powerful give way.
That's the interesting thing about it is that when you don't get that thing from you man and by your mother seem like a real, a real piece of work, just a yell, a kind of like the to these solid citizen euro right, always sort of moving through, so I was lucky enough that I had a yea. I you know, if you if you had, if we're too people baling on you, I have no idea. You know you, get so loss. But my mother was the opposite. She was the essence of consistency, The essence of unconditional love, always on your side, doing best to guide you ass much ass. She could but mainly that feeling of the deep deep love that was in your life every day. So I had these two things that I that balancing in those things did later show up in my music,
as pie the union of mile music from the darkness dark parts in the light parts, so it in being a very powerful? balance that I grew up with its also interesting to have to reckon ear to reckon with the fact that, like they're, not they're going to stay together. the union Yang, like there's several points in the book. We're there sort of like she couldn't leave, he wasn't gonna leave right it because it was the responsibility, the situation which I imagine something to do with with commitment and in fact, maybe some religion, yeah lay it was not It wasn't the day of divorce, uneasy out on things, you know my. My mother came from a divorced family and I said she decided that that was never going to happen to her the no matter what no matter and my father their provided. One.
He did provide was man that wasn't going to go anywhere. He was literally not have as they were. They were stuck together forever and for good. and so I added do address them both as as a couple the I always had to deal with them as a couple and deal with both sides of the coin. Yet its heart, to figure out. I would imagine that the justice of that that how do you like? How do you you know you, in your dad's being abusive and your mom's YO doing whatever she does and you ve gotta just deal with it that's the that's the lay of the land, those those are the those The card you ve been dealt. and when you are young, you it's there possible to understand you live in a house where there was so much kindness and great cruel. It was very very difficult to, stand those things and it set you
very on edge. You had your own local minefield that you had to walk every single day which cause a great deal of anxiety and neurotic system in may You were always on edge. You are always waiting for you. You had. one great thing but then you always waiting for the other shoe to drop made me very nervous kid right and also you know, there's two routes. You go with that when you have like a drinking or abusive parent either you you become that or you become the guy that controls What did you king and that was yeah yeah. I was again the control right came all right not gonna go to the other side in this thing here? So I The other way I've had enough drama, I've had enough the insurance and
in my home, so I am going to create a life where everything is very control and I feel safe, and I feel like it. Go about my business. So I worked very very hard to do that. Obviously, that big the problem too, because he become to controlling and you, squeeze out so much life rise from that you can't you can't live a life, Things are uncontrolled yeah, it isn't if you want to live a life, yet you to realize it's gone? You are not going to be the writer of your own script. Life is the that happens you know you don't cry, you don't happen to it. It happen to you, so you ve got to allow it in all of its uncontrollable and chaos too
come into your life and the way you reach adulthood. Is you realize that you have the power to stand the hurricane, forces that that that, uncontrolled events bring into your life once you taken, you hit the, but also what comes at those on control events, love happiness, fulfilment. Satisfaction you'll, all along that all those that you let all those things into which, if you, I can control not used, squeeze out, because what's more dangerous than love, then love there's nothing more dangerous than that. You know what the hell is going to that's right. Yeah, you don't know what the hell is going to. You know you're going to get hurt, yeah, probably yeah, so you cannot be some control nut and allow that into your life with all the. Things, why
I have the feeling that well, the bad things are going to be so bad, I'm just not going to let that happen to me. So what you do is you end up sort of building a wall yeah. I may talk a little bit about boundaries in the book, but you know what you had to do in your mind was sort of build the wall. Yes, I built I built quite a few of the mere yeah yeah just to protect this other part, which leads to this thing. You know I do stand up, but I'm doing it for years and there was something identified within the book which was, for some reason. And this is me now. Maybe you can help me. but maybe you already are, but I can open up in from the crowd. Yeah in in, like being put it all out there, that's easy to do you're, not gonna parts and direct right, but When I get home when I'm in relationship you know MIKE Will you want? What do? Why was it what's happening? learn certain kinds of people. You know, only feel at home in a crowd
performing for them. Then you have control number one. You have tremendous control, tremendous control, everybody's listening to you there is an error rate, but what about those times? So you know I, have you ever did it but like like a seems like that, you really kind of had a practical way of addressing fear. You know heading into things, Like you didn't want it, I have to assume it was there, but somehow boris right, but did you ever those nights where you know you you that one place where control you go up, and it's like that. Listen. I may I will talk about one gig in london. He, of course, but you you're desperation, has to be greater than your fear You know your desperation, you're, hunger your desires, your ego, your ambition, has to
greater than your fear of wait, humiliation and adds so as long as you have as long as you have that equation, those directly balanced you're going out there, my friend, no matter what happens as you have to have it. It's like it's funny, though, because like there was an interesting realization that you had- and I I assume a lot of this stuff in the book that you thinking about this stuff, like to assume that some of this stuff, you right in the book about the past, is you now going like oh yeah well now I know this, of course that's what I was doing of course, but back then you're, like I dunno, have just go. All of this stuff is inside me right, working his magic yeah and I'm just following it. Stumbling out on stage because I have to. I don't know, I'm not sure why I have to at the time and then I'm just you know,
exploding and letting things take their course, but those nights where it's like that you didn't get the love you needed out there, that's bad. that means yeah. There ain't no love nowhere. Yeah! That's why those nights are bad if you've squeezed all the rest out of your ad, your daily life and then you're not getting it there ooh there ain't, no love nowhere. My friend, it's a lonely world when that happens, and you went through months like that. well sure I may not know most of the time and I will not about the crowds, but where you take you out in the exile in a way we will do that for years. You know years and years in my real life here yet a bird You know I always fell back on my pretend life where I got to pretend I was bruce. Braced
and and and I always had that to fall back on it for three or four hours a night. You know when things get real dark, it's sort of like. Let's do this yeah at least that's something that I know well look. I am right. Yeah is thus issues that show I'm safe there. I know what's going on, I know is expected of me. I have no problem. Busting my ass to deliver it. At the end of the evening I go home and put my head to sleep. My pillow in a short moment of peace. I did it,
It is that in hell starts all over again but yeah. You just don't like that that elation that victory just wake up- and it's like. Oh that's right now. Why I'm back back in the real world? No more cape got my out. Outfit already reward. That's right! So I, like you, is that, where I mean, that real world thing in there. You know the difference between the two. I mean how difficult that did that get for you on a day to day basis what would your young it's not that different? Twenty five beat you're on some organs, grand yale and and you don't have that much of time, because you're torrent constantly in and you don't say
many things wrong here: oh yeah, girlfriends, they're kind of common in their goal. Here, that's kind of natural ideas. The way the life is it is when you get to be thirty five and thirty, two somethin start creep in it. You know that that's telling you well, you know you ve had enough of of you You ve done enough of sort of coming and going to realize Things broke yeah things bro like that shit. I work yes or something, something's wrong euro. with may or with the peace. Well, I'm choosing or just right something broken the machine so use are to realise. That starts creep into you when your own people talk about women ever body clock, but think tat. Men have one two and when they get into that early thirties, mid thirty's. You start thinking about
ok, where's, the rest of my life. Where success. Why am I Why my sitting here in this boy here where's the rest of my life, then why don't I have one. I mean I should I have one is never I haven't. I figured out all right, I don't. I figured out all the big problems in an economically answers here and That's when you realise when it went finally lands on you. You realize, oh, my god, I'm act is zero. area in this area, it has nothing to do with the craft that I have With this fortress, I have bill. for myself for thirty. Some years in this other area, I'm completely naked in the desert. There is no foreign surprise, it doesn't exist right and so
Suddenly, when you realise that you realise how adrift you are, and you realize that life plays it ass, the little joke on you in that you can become quite but mature and quite cs full and quite village in one area and become lately retarded in part of your personality. And that that was see like because I've dealt with some of that, but, like you seem to have dealt with it in your thirties, I'm feeling that now, oh boy, exciting, gets accessible. I was in my forty right now so that the if getting that thing shored up like I'm going to be okay, there right, you know, took me a lot longer right. So now I'm sorta like well, that's okay, and I thought that would answer a lot of questions. But then you like You think that's going to answer all your question will be ok and not feel good yeah.
and then you not, and then you know, then I start to realize because you're my father's got a bipolar in the I got some of that my family, but like it with me, are so anxious and shit like it. What I realized was, I trust, anybody course, why would you like to? Have you not go? Let anybody in so all this stuff, no matter how many people you got around the ban, women wherever the you're still alone, I bill, thing we're I would survive long either trust anybody, after parents left and after I had some very close people who died on me. My grandparents, I said woe. this world will kick your ass and burn you inside out our trust, any or anybody that I haven't bill myself right
you go about building, building, building, building, building, building and you the world at large at bay and that's how you live here you believe that not only that's how you live, that's how you can live for ever. right and then you reach a point we realise that year you have built yourself a fortress and you are locked inside right by you know all buyer lonely self. and that's when you realize I gotta go outside I have go outside, but unlike outside here I don't like what's answer I trust any the people outside the only trust myself. When I'm doing what I do and other people doing what I hope that my audiences there, but outside either
We trust the world at all and the world is dangerous and scary. How'd you get out there. We ve gotta go ago. Why me, when, like in the music like like is like what I'm talking here your face to face. I can hear the end I can hear through the work The resolution of those models intellectually internationally, but I put all these things I do point where I hit a wall. then I realise that I am locked inside thing what you're was act like what I'm waiting. While I was, I wrote nebraska and I took this trip the country that I mention in the berger and I. During that trip I fell, sue alienated from everything that I was coming in contact with that one hit the west coast where I had
bought myself a small home. I realized. I can't live here this list is italy, germany and this little houses. Clothes in me really give me back on the road yeah yeah, but I realize it got back on the road. I was just gonna bounced back to the east coast and feel the same way and bounced back again. A really I'd run out of my options, all my rock and roll medications heading. To a point where ok, that part of your life, where all those things worked for you and you thought you were ok, is over now it's over were you never going to feel that those things can make you feel completely all right again, so, like nebraska was almost a cry for help in a way it's over it's over that it was over, then yeah, no, and so now, you're going. Oh, my god, I gotta go out.
And that was what I got into the analysis because I didn't a key or a clue as to I put my foot in the real world. I was thirty seven years old and still We every every deal I had was impure cash. I didn't have a cheque book. I didn't have a credit card. If I wanted anything, I pay for it in kashmir, and so I was in my own little. you know my little groomer and and Jon landau told you to do that. He was the guy said yeah, even the professional oil and that's not something you grow up with. It probably had a natural aversion. Of course hell does that I didn't know anybody working people that I didn't ever. I never knew anyone with the exception of John himself, who I did trust greatly but with the exceptions, are I never knew anyone who had anything like that and I go
up around sick people. I grew up around people, we have we, don't we don't? We don't get help. Those who are deeply deeply mentally Jesus doesn't work. Then we're going to live with it. You know you went off to the county home yeah yeah is where you went ryan, grew up around people who were seriously mentally ill and no one really got any help so This was a revolution for me, but it was the thing or to know I went in and and I'd aloud, things were talking about. I gave a name to yet tools, and is it ok? Oh I got this is all this point this is just this it's. Not everything every man away, everything is still waiting for me right, but get to everything. I gotta go out where everything is an hour, to do that. Everything being
your life long jill during world at large children, and to go out there, I gotta go out there. Where life and the world is going to happen to me with his entered thing to me because right now, if I really think about the music and I think about that relationship and that you have with your audience a very specific audience in a way they love you and they they, they they d you they woke up to you. Do you speak for them, because in midst of all your understanding, poetically. You know to both It darkness and the charisma that you bring to the show there was. There was a impurity to it like there was almost an innocence to it because you you were working this stuff out mentally there you're emotionally. You are connecting to others stories and moving some of your own emotions through it, but because
if you're kind of almost because of the world you billy for yourself, they were experiencing you as as pure being well. The funny thing is, I was writing about it richly my muse right. I just wasn't living it right. You know, and you you put in the book you had that amazing passage where you said that, because your father was in communicative, you had to picture both sides of the of the conversation in your own head and and resolve issues that were going. Between you and him in the cap, josie, you build your own had so your empathy with huge, but perhaps embracing that came. part of that is always believe. It's a genetic predisposition. to being a certain kind of person. My mother was extremely sensitive. We have a lot of em it's on her side of the family and I got dealt those Cards which were very helpful when it comes to
watching in writing, music and experiencing life and other people shoes and putting your of another people's places, great way to work not always the best way to live, but because you get crushed yeah you get, you know, and so you gotta learn how to. Then you have to learn do that and b that person, while at the same I'm putting up some very scene where needed. Put up some very soon and protective foundered boundary rio. So you don't get can a badge of which you were at times many times you know so I had to learn like oh, I got it, I'm really in control here, but I'm kind of a sucker for all these other thing, that's when they come my mark for all these other things. I had a classic to me in new york city, where I got caught in a classic new york city card game, nokia, threec, armani, now Guy came up to me on the street here:
this is when you are bruce Springsteen here. People are able to me on the street said he was from south africa the town driver picked him up, got dropped off last we ve lost. There was a brief case. It's in madison square garden, interfere with money and I'm gone I'll. How can I help you and this leads to a variety of other circumstances where I finally end up one street corner and a guy who's. This I've got a gun in my pocket because I finally was I finally realised I'm cod and than he had this, not progress. The arrow am I The blocking away anyway, but I said he: why did I Why am I the guy that have the thousands of people on the street that day somebody
at me and said: that's my man, yeah yeah. I know that that's my way and I said Ok I'm putting something out here, that's great, sometimes, but not so good in everyday life. It's very tough realisation. There was. I had a really woe, Yeah because then you got a warrant was hard one kind of stupid. This way I don't want. It is because he is like you, you know you ve got that is like we imbros steady, can't hide the mark. Inside of you can get it right and it took me a long time to realise that a part of me was that person, and then start to build boundaries that not all, good for me, but we're good for people that were around me because I wasn't doing them any service either. You know and in that was gonna the beginning it was. It was an adult thing to do what you gotta learn, how to go like, nor can now you ever norms you go in there
yeah yeah yeah, the euro. Can you dear to your friends or the people that are eighty? I learn under the euro, say no, I can't for me, it was really hard because I heard no, I can't so when I was a child, I said I'm not going to say no to anybody. one when I grow up, I not clear and give it all away. Yeah, I'm not going I'm going to give everything every single way and so he trusted peoples do yeah completely completely. I both with somebody you didn't trust, anyone and did effort at this time when I went outside so so we trust you to create a vision. You know like so like they're, like that ego you're talking about which can kind of identify with in the sense that sort of like I'm gonna, be big. I'm in I'm going to do it my way also I idealized, in my songs, and so I then projected that on do you just to ever
make sure right which it, which I made this guy up out this week, which plenty times worked great and anne, but sometimes muscle great change, but the stubbornness really like there's some points in your career, where you are like this. This is the them way thing served you we greatly and that you know you fought the good fight for your create vision that eventually yeah, but it was a hard time yeah. There was one bit in a book that like struck me, because of what we're living through. Now. There was a moment in the book where you talked about the high school principle, encouraging the are yet the rise in the creatures and then the meat heads but yeah there was it you- and this is a high school thought You know when you were a long, hair and you're going to go to graduation that he suddenly encouraged somebody did anybody to get you in lying there
which we now have a president elect that there is a high school breeze than I school brings the guy who's going to the bad guy. But I can't do it myself. Saying you should somebody like the guy in the vague life right. It scared me, but somebody do it I'll pay the bill, I'm not even going to tell you to do it, I'm just saying that wouldn't bother me but yeah exactly and that's you know. You know it's like when I think about. I don't know you scared now yeah yeah. Of course. How could you not be right, it is. Have you felt this fear before no more? I felt discussed before right, but never never the kind of fear You feel now right simply the fear of is someone simply competent enough to do this particular job right.
Forget about what were they are ideologically right? Did they simply have the pure competent right Those who were to be put in position such genome responsibility he shut, like when you, when you ve done the amount of self work you ve done and you ve grown up the wave grown up, and you know you know people it's sort of like we, the elected the most insecure you know nearly volatile, dude and liking to to do this job like that that somehow or other I dont think I like in in bodies wraith too, to a lot of people, but it does embody block you yeah, there's issue, it has just voted for what we voted for the fuck you guys that happened there and you know like in in like so I started thinking about why this weird thing about the themes, your music and in the people, that you know you and power and in an empty
eyes for people in your life, you younger sister, who live working class wife, of course, and times are tough, but you know that shift and I think you might have suggested it in the book a little bit the the the the strength that comes through through Faith or determination to deal with adversity is is, is that that's breaking the american spirit, but once adversity tips into hopeless However, that works and you ve written those characters too young and they acted yes, sometimes badly. But why when the hopelessness you know has no place to go. This is where we're at so how how you like where's, your empathy around. You know. I know people who voted for you have new jersey, probably know if you of course, And then you have that moment, we like one who the fuck are you. Why are you I thought I knew you?
Yeah I mean I understand how he got elected yeah. You know, and I think, if you were affected deeply by the deindustrialization and globalization, the technology technological advanced and you have been left behind that somebody comes along and tells you I want to bring all the jobs back, don't wear them they're all coming back. you're concerned about america, changing the browning of america than a build, a wall You worried about ices, I'm gonna die, got a secret plan to defeat isis. Don't worry about that? are you worried about terrorism in the united states? I'm gonna register the muslims and we're gonna. I mean these are all very simplistic, but very power and simple ideas, I mean there. Lies they can occur, but if they do occur there
can't we do a better player, but if youve, if, if you struggles tat, thirty or forty years, and this is then the thief seems very themes of my of much my creative life for all those years. But he comes along and offers you something else, particularly if you feel you ve been failed by then the two parties It's a compelling. It's a compelling choice and it s just appeals to your worst angels. Under certain circumstances. You know enough people went there, not a majority of people but enough and what it is fear of it as we enter it. I suppose would be that A lot of the worst things and the worst aspects of what he appealed to comes to fruition.
when you let the genie out of the bottle bigotry racism when you those things out of the bottle gate, our dear intolerance, that they don't go back in the bottle that easily, if they go back in at all, it's a rise in hate crimes, people feeling licence to speak. can behave in ways that previously were considered an american and are on american. That's what he's appealing to and so my fears are that those things find a place in ordinary civil society demeans the it. Discussions and events of the day and the cut real changes in a way that is unrecognizable and we become estranged, as you say, he's a half way to me. Both drama,
I thought I knew who you are. You know, I'm not sure you know the country It was very strange you feel very strange from your countrymen. Yeah, so Those are all dangerous things that and we don't even know your he hasn't even taken office yet in valencia and is barely messianic. Our panic yeah, you know so we are awaiting see better Those are certainly the locations and if you also look at who he's been picking for his cabinet, doesn't speak very well for what's coming up You know those are all things that you know, I'm very frightened, oven and waiting. See play out, and all you can do is say one than I do my best to hear. Turkey is still america believe in it. ideals, and I'm gonna do my best to play my very, very small, pardon containing those. Are you writing about it? No, I haven't
written about it. You know it takes a while to digest all those things Even I dont know, if I will, you know cause, I don't write, I don't go Ok, I need a trump album. That's what's gonna come also by better than I can give you will get. You certainly are heroes. Him, and certainly you know your shift in two, power of of popular folk music in and what your folk music meant You know it's enjoying. I've got a lot of zones that are about it. Right now are all there. This area, this kind of their already in in. yet you know I work from the inside out. In other words, I'm inspired by something internally and I make a record based on I can write about at a given moment. Sometimes it ends up being topical. Sometimes it doesn't know, but but we ve got We ve got a good arsenal. Material right now the wing go out in the open, put in services
interesting, when you write in a book about the that there was an intimacy to businesses and weather was broken or corrupt or whatever, but you know where you had relationships with DJ work, where an article in the press can make a difference where, where a song, when you think about when he got three, about the power of the that music in those circles. How it could convey. message of unity. I think a lot of what you talk about you in your experience with your fans and in what music does is that their there? community. What scary now and I think you kind of four figure out in a little bit is that it's a fragmented that there is now you can pick a world to live in the real world said sir, you know, as they say it's your little bubble jerseys blue stayed in Europe. I certainly ran into more clinton supporters and ideas from supporters, but. But I did
I did know both in and I think it is a benefit to what's occurred. With some little similar after the o, J verdict was at peace, those woe There are some other americans that are my countrymen, that I billy, I'm not sure, I know who they are. So the answer is, is not the problem can t your little box, but now answer as well as find out one way or the other, and here I am to find out who's plenty of good, solid folks that voted for donald trump but as long as well as people who had other agendas, but you know two to know that you ve got it no son, you know, What it is. Some a little bit is just this idea of change
whatever they were afraid of they voted their fear and but a day. But the thing that's given that there is a sort of a nervous and a little bit is that's like be all right. You can work that then, I'm probably I don't know about you but there's partners, like I hope so, He heard a voice like like here. It shaken the fate. Of course. So so we'll see yeah, that's it! That's all we can say right now, yeah, and what have you done differently to to finish up here? Like you know, because I know like I don't have kids like I I you know, I don't yeah and the married couple of times and didn't have any kids. You can do that if you really focus on it, it's increased you could put you lied to lock up early. I could be with a woman who wants get em again but but who you somehow you, I guess through self worth can through you know whatever he had a duty to get your darkness in place. You know able.
To rise up like there's a moment after darkness. We said like all right, you know Warranty runs about freedom, in that way, selfish freedom, then there's responsibility and somehow another. You ve put yourself together enough. What there's this licence and their freedom in those two things are very different. I always say licences, Freedom as masturbation is to real sex. It's not bad, but it's not the real, but like ie, eight talk a lot about man and it seems like you, ve, manned up and become a of decent europe. decent guy you're, good father and in how do you do it differently? Yeah conscience. I think you have to believe in the things that you don't know, most all the things? They don't know that don't believe, exists and very often the area. So you you have to sort of believe in the things that you don't know, no through their know that their. an important part of a full life and then
have to go out and you have to find a process in which you ve come to know those things whether there, Appealing things about yourself or whether there are not you ve gotten. Usually I've got to go out and learn about all the ugly things about yourself and all the stake in things- that you ve done to construct responsible version yeah. You know you ve got to go out and sort of in court. Rate learn those things and incorporate them into your life. in doing so. You learn a lot of forgiveness. You learn, your tolerance increases tremendously, and you learn a lot about the way life. Happens to you, as I say, and you ve gotta prepare yourself for good come in your life and also the bad things come when you open yourself up to the world at large, and so that that was the biggest change
happened in my thirties that I two I had. It was I going back to learning my first court on the guitar. I had learned the first cord on myself and end. Build it just the same way. I built the craft of playing and singing slowly step by step. Angry sometimes joyful until Finally, I was able to put together a me that other But once they got to know me would be, to stand then at once I was able to do that. Then you know, then your kids come along and then you have a wife and a relationship and And you do your best to try and not fuck those things up. As you go It is not easy to do and but suddenly awake up one morning in you know, there's the life there you know so in a lot of its not in your control,
this is some of it is, but a lot of it. A lot of it is not, and you ok with that and you gotta be okay with it. Yeah and and gotta have a little faith. That's right! Yeah! That's right! for talking my pleasure, my thanks a lot an okay! Well, that's me and bruce. I hope you enjoyed that. I know I know I wish I could have hung out for another couple of hours, but read the book. It's very honest- it all in there after we were, we were done with our hour. We walking around a little bit. I told them about Keith, richards and smoking that cigarette keith richards and he laughed- and I say, hey man can I have a pic. I thought. Maybe you had like a lot of people. Are musicians have picks with their names on them or whatever because I yeah man, I I can give you a pic he's working through all these pics and he doesn't have any like bruce Springsteen picks, but he does have a pic.
there. He uses and its special, because its large thick pick, which I I you a big trying, your pic and on the top? There is this thing on it and it's a piece of sandpaper. Yes, his guitar tech or his guy, he Sandpaper tape sandpaper on the top of these people, so bruce doesn't lose him because hands gets way elsewhere bad in his hand, so I've gotta sandpaper, dare Springsteen pick them. cherish along This conversation so Who are you I got good? I gotta play will guitar now, but you know you can split if you want happy new year,.
The boomer lives boomer happy new year.
Transcript generated on 2022-09-03.