How did an '80s glam metal bassist become one of the most prominent music managers in the industry, representing Sia, Weezer, Train, Courtney Love, Fall Out Boy, Lorde, and many others? Marc hears one of the most unlikely stories of show business success from his friend of more than 20 years, Jonathan Daniel. Plus, comedian Nick Thune stops by to talk about making jokes with Jesus.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
All right. Let's do this now. Are you what the fuckers, what the fuck buddies, what the buccaneers, what the fuck? Next, what the hell, what the fuck? What will I just do what's happening this mark mare- and this is my ipod gases- is w e f? Thank you for for joining us For joining us all here this morning I am sitting right now in transit or I'm about to be in transit sworn to get this. This done for. I took off because you never know with air travel, but I'm sitting a hotel room looking over the city of tallahassee Florida, I'm looking I don't know into what state of its alabama or georgia or or deeper into florida, the air and the sky is crystal clear,
very lush, very green tallahassee's, not a a large city. So just beyond the city, it looks like nothing but woods, and ah that makes me nervous. But, ah I'm here up squeaky chair, alright sit in it. Sorry folks, it's just bear with me. Let me just get that Adam out of the chair system. We have two guests on the show today, why mean? There's the you know the traditional when I do it this way, there's the the short interview or the shorter interview and then the long interview today nick soon will be here with us again. I haven't spoken in nyc in a while he's got a special coming on soon to new standards, special good guy, it's available on c so and amazon. You can also check out my full interviewed nick on episode, one eighty, nine of deputy Evan that's available on howl, go to howl
at fm and sign up for a premium account nick's. A good guy will always get pretty deep, pretty quick in a specific way that don't usually get with other guests, so it was good to talk. Again, but the other guests. The longer interview today is my old buddy job. than Daniel John Daniel, and I go back way back actually to new york mid nineties when he had the hit the wall After being in a hare, in l, a was in some sort of a horrible accounting job in the music business and in any he on to create a very big music management company, crush management. where he handles young people like weasel panic at the disco fall out boy: Courtney, love ciera, there when I knew a man I know he know I was gonna happen and it wasn't looking good. So a really it's great in- and we haven't talk like this probably ever and it was. It was great to see him,
great to talk to an old friend but also great to to hear the whole story cause? You know when, even when you know people for for decades alma? If you don't always know the whole story, so yeah, I'm going to talk to John Daniel and nick thune today, now I'll tell you man. If you spend Yeah a minute and a half on any social media platform, you just assume that did you go the world never yelling at each other of both for hate or embodies like theirs. possible way for us to communicate with each other's people just nothing but dare suspicion in contempt out there, and so in this way it works. My brain I will have the greatest personal boundaries or the ability to insulate myself emotionally that. Well, when I take shit into my eyes when I each it with my eyes, it affects my brain and fox my heart,
Sometimes so will paranoid, but I get down here and I am trying to you know I I like to engage with the city. I check into the hotel late at night and check in with the news of the day, which did not help me sleep. I get up and you know, and just to go, find some coffee found some coffee. The city does not do not seem very a booming, but I might be in the downtown area. I don't know this the capital of florida and then I you know trying to find some healthy stuff to eat because ah yeah, it's it's weird. You know when you're thinking about a possible impending apocalypse and carbohydrates. It's it's a tough place to be one of them has to give. and I thought it would be the carbohydrates. I thought it would be the that shitty food, but I somehow managed to find the fortitude to go out and find some decent veggie food intelligence.
I see so I you know I I took care of that. So I honored my fear of dying from a a clogged heart. The pending apocalypse fear persists. But dad and god damn it. I'm gonna go out and in any myself some reasonable protein in some not so fast, I gotta go find some tofu tallahassee. There's a chair. Sorry, so I find a place online called sold edge, vegetarian soul, food. And it looks like the bad a mile away, so our walk it and a walk. And I'm looking around and there's not a lot of people
st bounding. There's a lot of people on the street in general is a huge college. Your efforts you is here in the gig that I performed last night is is actually at the college. Part of their opening night series segura was on Tom. Segura was the night before me nicely twelve hundred cedar place from what I'm told and as well. So I take a walk or go out and walk, and I come to this little strip mall, it's always weird, to walk in places that are, you know you can tower fundamentally driving cities while most cities are, I guess, but you do feel a little isolated and when you see someone walking towards you from a half a mile away, you have a lot of time to think about how that's going to go
but I walk say hi to some people friendly face not from around here how are area and I walked into vegetarian vegetarian sold edge in its great little place, and I got to curry tofu brown, rice, coward greens, yams, corn, bread is awesome, excellent food and it was quiet and it was a year with it was a little. I don't know who owns it, but there are some interesting pictures on the wall From the eight they seem to be from africa, actually I believe and I'm just eden juice and I'm still not. You know quite comfortable and I'm not really sure what the temperature of the area manner, how things are going to go chasm living in a bit of here in my mind and then over the next table. For me you know, I see some older,
poor little older than me, maybe in their sixties, one dude had a long gray, ponytail and you know down south acca go either way in terms of it. His position that I saw another older couple there and there is a sir, the woman's wearing a certain type of sandal. That led me to believe that to. Well, maybe you know. Maybe there were were like minded, or at least they can give me the polls if they're locals- and you know I just want to know what the the politics of the area. Worse, so I know what I'm walking into, and you know the what what's the general sense of the population I could have done this online, but why not do it hands on? Why not just engage. so I eat, and then I just walk up and I'd say so you guys seem like you're you're talking a little will news? Will politics your your you seem to be from around here? What's the story here in tallahassee and we sit there and we talk about the you know what What tallahassee is and is and what the surrounding areas are, and they tell some stories about where there from a couple them from from george
John young one of the guy, the guy at the point tells a local photographer. Does some amazing portrait work in a which is interesting? It was just interesting that to to kind of get out of the world of a yo online, you know insanity and out into the world of real life and just casually impose yourself on people to have a conversation about what's going on, and then I start, you know when I was sitting there in this little yo soul, food, vegetarian, restaurant in a strip mall in tallahassee. I pull my chair up next to some people. I didn't know and just talked a little bit about the world about the news about politics and it was a it was nice and then I started to think like wow. Is this how we're going to
talking every all this. If a certain ilk is just where we're going to be just to kind of quietly up huddled in a corner talking in a small restaurant in a in a strip mall and places looking at each other colleagues, ok yeah, you video carries. We talk here, yelling I just turn the sign on the window to closed, and let's have a conversation is this: what discourses are going to be dow is going to go. That was the dark vision. But then like I get to the show. And I got this local kid opening for me, Austin man, he did a good job. We pack the place out too hundred people didn't hour and a half did the talked about everything. I'm feeling in everything that's funny and some things that aren't meaning that I made funny and was a great show and I think gay was appreciated. I appreciated it and their ha
onward. We go some leaving tallahassee today and going back to hell April in awhile, might take a vacation if possible. I gotta check out for a while, alright right so nick soon Can we go back a bit not that far his younger than me, but the first conversation that we had a very into his faith, and was unique conversation for me and it was respectful and good, and it turned out that this little conversation we had he went there. It kind of got there pretty quickly because we were checking in Ivan. I haven't talked to him in a long time, but but he's a good guy and it was, it was great to talk to them and and again his stand up special good guys now available. see show and amazon, and this is me and nick food it's been a long time a long time since we talked on here
I think in your first hundred episode. Was it I think so we're like. Maybe right after so much has happened, you ve got a beard. You got a kid new man, yeah how's that kid three I him up at school, really be. I had a big hit I picked him up, they go hey. We do need to tell you like. And then I realized I got a huge gash on his forehead. There like he was writing the car over there and he flipped here the car he who wrote in the car and they ice did they chechnya, concussion. Everything seems fine. The icy a browser that kid is not really now know, but he didn't. I meet him briefly. You ve met him twice. I think actually You flew behind us on a flight from boston awe, and you said after This is like you know, quote that open on his website. Sunday said he's is actually a good kid. and because it in a cry- and I remember being pretty nervous that you are going to be pretty frustrated if he started.
I it's weird dude like not having kids like I'm, not crazy. Guy about that shit in a dozen It doesn't affect me. I mean I've had crying davies. Like I imagine, if you live with a crying baby, it's probably can really be grading, but, like I don't I'm When those peoples I die, fucking kid first class. I just I I you know, I don't like people who fuckin snore out. I can take a baby crying for an hour or two more that can take some ass I'll, just snoring enneads, even more born or alarm raised armrest or people. immediately wanna talk and you can tell that you ve gotta, cut him off because its yeah, you know, I don't talk to people. I don't know if I put off aye, but I generally I really have an in years. I have not done this sort. like we're in the air we're talking thing, but you ve had a unique experience before would assume on a flight with a person sitting You know what happens in. This is the weird thing and I ve noticed it over and over again. I could not say a fuckin word other than excuse me to get out. If I
fourchan enough not to have the I'll see for the entire flight and then right as we descend literally minutes before we land there So what do you do you? Like? The conversation starts it does there a lot? Isn't that weird? Sometimes it's right away, and sometimes it's right there in the end right, it's so bizarre, yeah and you're like us, really looking forward to dislike, check and tax right when we land and not have to talk to you getting right out. Moment, though, where I was flying from like upstate new york to boston on a really small flight, pray hours, yeah yeah as woman right as the plane starts to speed up. I feel her hand it she put her hand on my hand, it's an elderly woman here and I look over and I just think ok, you know me, I hold her hand and then we get to the top and she's. Thank you for that. It's a first, my flight, since my husband died, gotta
without a cry. I think I did cry, but it was like you know. That was worth it. Oh, my god, those that a punch to it was choked up. I kind of wish I could have that on every flight. What ha yeah. I mean flying very vulnerable place for some people and enable get drunk on flights. Oh no yeah! I know I've heard stories. I I've been fortunate lately knock on wood. That yeah I have it travels, been pretty easy. I haven't there haven't been incidents. I haven't found myself furious and I been ok lately I've been paying more for comfort. Generally interaction. That's one thing. I don't buy much and a you know. I earn a living and I don't have to worried that dependence at this point. So, like a fly first, I don't give a fuck. I feel, like everybody gives you most things accept, probably a shirt and villa, and it maybe maybe some effective not sure you're fans love you this pants know. What I do is I take everything from wardrobe,
for these reasons, my shower, if I hadn't unforeseen, is that my show, I would add five shirts and to pay pants. I ve, never been able to do it until these. I just did these del commercials and they, let me keep all of it. Del computer near gave me a really good we're still used elsewhere, woody no kidding, I guess it'd be surprised, everyone's, an artist who lives in and ass all as nobody like you. There Definitely I guess it's for what you I've always assume that there are some businesses that require pcs I dont know wised most yeah, that's the deal I mean I don't. I was just thinking this hitherto somebody next to me had Adele year on a flight and areas That's all I really see in the salmon like jet blue first class, the allayed in new york flight I'll, come on now. You know you're drawing lines you're telling me you don't seem max or
pads nodded alright, not a lot on planes. I I feel, like I see, like samsung devices you know like people have like pc like the fire yeah. I think I, I kind of think you're right when I see people actually working on a plane, it's usually on a pc, so he did some commercials yeah a bunch yeah. Yeah they mean. Annick now spent two years I've been doing them you're the guy I mean I'm there being. I guess I miss what they call a celebrity spokesman. another year, the doll guy or word celebrities. Pretty what do you say your name or are you just like the guy that said the last ones they added it to the script? And I I was talking to my friend I was like. Do you think I should say not like? I don't want my name in it, it's not like nick soon for nuclear energy like? Hey here's a recently praise computer. You did not. If they had never so well, they're, probably using your beard. May I have your area their idea. We gotta wait. Let's make these
pcs, hip. Yes, a first job that I've had writing a walk in there like do me. In her like hey, you might not shaming me want to use that for a brand, so well When did you shoot this new special? What's it called? It's called good guy guy Actually, will here's white? I text you because I don't you put this second time that you met. My son was a dick, They are on their way. They let you he's a little man and be a boy. This is what I thought was so funny as you. You know you're in there, and I was just stressing about the special because see so had given me an offer to do it and are right, and you know it setting of like it's something up, working on for years, and do I take us off? waiter. I don't really know much about c solar and my son was back in a corner, but that in that play area- and you sat down with me in the first thing he said- was your definitely you should do it but he's going pay you for this. Do it yeah and then, as you're telling me that my son dragged from that back corner a small chair
with the juice in one hand, and set it at a table with us- and you just were staring at him just kind of in awe that he wanted to take a seat at the technical, dragging it like a kid in a schoolroom desire, the loudest screeching noise in any EU visa little man at the table flight little man says I. I taught him something that I should and taught him, because he had a steel while lying, I taught him at a lion and that really going turn no one on their own. He was crying is like. I want to watch a cartoon and I go hey how about, if you stated it like this, what if you said hey dad would
be a good idea if, when we got home, I watched a cartoon? Ah, yes, and then he said that now I guess it's a great idea, good idea, towns yeah, do it ahead, town and now he does. That with everything would be a great idea for me to have a cookie right now on his namesake, his name voice hopi. He doesn't honour that legacy, maybe creatively world that has now I otherwise I was at the park. In glendale yeah, and this guy with his daughter, was like. I was like hey towns get over here and the guy goes. Your son's name is towns and I said yeah, and he goes after townes Van Zandt, may I got here goes yeah. I know it. Yeah yeah is here, and he said well, crazy, because I manage his estate of let it go and what its he's like. What's your email, send you an unruly song, three big townsmen yeah, I'm just fascinated by him and some some of his history and also just his guitar pissed, like Travis picking style and oh yeah,
love that stuff. You get pretty good on the guitar. I think I'm getting worse actually really. Well, this whole special. I don't play. I did I stop playing, it knew not taken on the road wait a minute. What now, flash! So no guitar this one now! it and it was the use it for a couple minutes in the middle and I'm marking a youth, pastor kind of that naturally more What is his ear? Is there a through? I do this thing you say you worked on for two years is a generous and three or years it's it's too stories, and then the middle is kind of a prelude to this tv show writing about a church thing where it's like what I you know kind of my thought on on hit you masters, partly because I heard this youth pastor, this really famous, when I'm not gonna, let us say his name, it he opens a sermon up where in front of thousands of people with millions of views with the line. I'll never forget when I was five years old and I got lost at a grocery store. Have you ever felt lost?
and it just drove in hands, go up in saying yes and it call me in saying that you could take this like and non memory and equated to people of deep spiritual issues of feeling oscar. You know I just kind of like thought like it's just the thought of christian the kind of having this sort of meat ok element to it when it could be so much stronger, because I just think I dunno and it's even ripping on that. It's just seem simple as him like a simple thing: that's what it annoys you yeah he thought it was chea poch, yeah I mean I m sure you could put a pull my stand apart and six no no, but I mean, like you know, as we discussed in the last episode, you know you christian dude that you know their time? I talk to you ass time. You're having some mile crisis of faith and and you're still engaged, apparently
Indeed didn't pushy out? Why did the tonight you last week and did the youth passed her bed the next day. I I got, You know it was like the most bit, the biggest thing. I'd ever done response wise and on both sides. The tonight show the christians people that loved it and and christians. That thought I was mocking them, but then cool christians that were like yeah. All that stuff is, true it so funny. You know I'm right and then people had dunham are involved the church, the kind of related to in some way bet. I emailed the producer. I was like hey mana. I was almost curious if you guys are getting any backlash and he goes yeah. If you mean by letters from the christian defamation league all morning, yeah we are go well. If you need to take it off youtube, that's fine and he's like no. We love it. This is great any responses, great and really cool. interesting. So it was provocative. Seattle, betsy, Chris, since have such a loud voice. You know day and they ate, and they they will be.
heard and it, and I respect that they seem to have a lot of them at there's, a very seemingly a grass roots movement of people that to add Appear to have a lot of time on their hands. themes. That way. Well the show that I'm writing for a b c is called while we were going to call it holy shit, but apc was like. Well, that's not going to happen right right because it's a workplace comedy to church, but the announced in the trades and immediately these these christian websites like filed petitions to send disney to change the name they god, like the holy shit, was filed? Yeah, ok, like day I can't say holy shit like universe petition and they reference then I said in your podcast instead that I didn't said another package really, because At some point ass I saw a reference dislike verse and revelation word. The lord says you know either your heart or your cold, because if your lukewarm I'm just gonna spit yet my mouth in our right- and I
add in some thing they're like so what kind of a christian are you, and I was like- probably the most lukewarm christian leah- god probably wouldn't want to have anything to do with me, but maybe that means that he would actually may be careful about being around me. I don't know he out seems. Why? Who are we gonna yeah so that that got people? tat we are building a dossier, a guy and that he has flaws, really got people hurt interesting, the entire religions. Based on that the I think That's why sin was that the notion of sin was invented here is to realize at tat. We you cannot be perfected. We are flawed and have to or keep these in check. If you can yeah and- and I guess it was you know it's like the same at the time, vans, aunt lyric, anything done over and over, but there ain't no dark until something shines. You know it's like there is no forgiveness. If there is no sense As you know. The whole progression of the special is wanting to be good witch
essentially means that I'm not media and in the wet. What really wanted me to be good my son. You know that we makes you wanna live longer. Just so you don't hurt them with your death riot. two young of an aid, wow you're thinking that before it even came out the area I mean I quit smoking, just ways that I could be a dad for longer. Rice Well, I never thought about a flat beyond the It's about this doctor that the story of out there was a boy yeah, he told me it was a girl, and I looked at the screen and said: isn't that a penis at a real hospital in LOS angeles, he said if, if he thinks they looked in my life and said if he thinks that subpoenas I know who got u pregnant by you jobs are so many other other comedian, where you and I know that guy yeah they mean not because I was I want. I wanted a boy for some, whatever sergeant listing whenever and then into another doctor.
Later amanda, one son, just that is what it is near monthly other doktor. He was like you know. My wife had we'd go. Through so much the worst. I was so caught up in what the doctor said, anne, It turns out. It is a boy that other doktor was just an asshole. I was calling the shots way too early, so you you had a healthy son yeah. and I m am weather, your primary struggles now around because, like the last time idea, which is years ago, struggles around. You know whether or not you're, good or good. Jim were really selfish and the kind of lifestyle struggles. What what? What change with a kid Why stop worrying about that as much as I think that that was the progression of of not caring about what people think, especially from that perspective of the church- and right that that took a long time, but eventually it was just like you. Why am I who had trying to keep on good guards? You know him
I with them yet yeah but now it is like you know this morning we went test honeymoon when we were going to look at how sylvia and my wife said you know in the mornings you're you have a tone and towns asked me if you're angry, sometimes yeah. It's been a widely known thing in every one of my family forever. That you're just gonna give me an hour in the morning in really here I need it. I too like what feeling in amerika, I think it's the most depressed, I feel really yeah. I think I feel like here we go again weight on the shoulders of the day. Yeah or am I doing enough? Is there more you know and on all levels I have really dark dreams. I think that's also the social media thing. I need to stop, because you know I kind of go down these holes and I can I just have these dreams. It urges horrible me a lot really yeah,
and I went. I did see a doctor about it for awhile and then every now and again, a good one will pop in I'll feel good again. Yeah like surprise this one's going to be fun but I do a thing where I've wake up a lot in the night and then have a radically different dream again and four times my dad noise yeah, but really now and just things like I can't help. My son he's lost that kind of My dad eyeing panic, jaaffier things if your control neck- and I had this really bad one that I'm sure people will interpret, and this might lose my show in a b c where I walk into my childhood bathroom via my mom sitting on the edge of the tub and yes distraught. He looks at me. He says what. Why did you do it in that it, and I wake up your papa s group
It's it's out what hurts, and maybe I realize every couple years because it so vague yeah, but you know, but you know you did something I've been wondering it seem like it's pretty bad. Seems like, but I think that if you really take dreams for what they're worth or what they're saying it's a you know it. I think it representation of your own use. of doubt. I mean It's like almost like a confirming thing that you know here. You have the woman their brought in the world with no real other information other than like half or what would you do what how why we need. Why would you do that? What's wrong with you? Won't I'm so sensitive, and this morning my wife, that on the way to this first house. We finish the first house and we get back in the cards like waiting, so quiet and they go because you too I'm a horrible dad it's yours
It's not what I talk to you. I said you're grumpy, sometimes in the morning. I'd do that to you. You you've interpreted if he had gone through, it's gone through the nick self hatred interpreter, yeah yeah and she seems to be getting more and more like far apart from what people are actually saying. Sometimes, will you I find the two that I give. My interpretation, what's being said, is so informed by mount. securities radio outreach right in that's, that's a problem because you know you're, not you know it when's brought this up. It's like you know we're not having the same conversation, because europe acting all this stuff. That's coming it yeah. She did say this, but I realize it's coming from my own. ideas of who I am I They say something that reinforces My negative ideas about myself, then there part of it. The
will you I wake up in the morning, and I know that I'm grumpy and I hate it and I'm like trying to find options for a while, yet a routine. So when she mentions that it's like, I thought, I'd fixed it. Why is that but why you put all this on yourself, I mean I shouldn't shouldn't Jesus, be picking up a little slack, yeah you're probably get a lot of letters from the christian defamation. I doubt it I just know I mean this bell, but there's an open, honest conversation. I dunno what I don't understand if any. If we talk about anything anything, we've said here, if they send emails, it's like what are they sending emails about, but what? Where is the the practice or your faith? At this point? Do you guys go to church on Sunday? No, no, and my mother in law told me this summer that she wants me to pray with my son at night time, and I said that makes sense I should and in its approach
on experience? Are you doing it? Yeah, ok, yeah. He says some pretty interesting stuff. He thanked god for his daddy's beard, the other night I could have a family. I welcome the two times I've every time I come in here really goes down. This interesting religious station which I like? I think we did our right. I hope I weren't that's we ended the last one is that last summer's, like madam insecure about that, will end. You know I don't mean to name drop, that I gotta. After doing the last monday, I got some really nice messages from some cool people that I just it just. You know, I didn't know that about you, that's really cool and but Anthony Jes. An ex sent me a text said if all christians like were like you, I wouldn't hate them. The devil Well! Congratulations! Man! On on having a healthy sign- and you know being okay and earning a living and the marriage still working and still
working on your relationship with god? Did he seem good thanks? Doktor, ok, bye. I see that was nice good to see nick good there, the conversation good that he's doing, ok and there you know it's families are right. You know, I don't know it's nice to check in good. It's good and his next special good guy now available on sea so and amazon. Now, let's get to my buddy John Daniel. So John and I lived in new york at a time back in the day, mid nineties when I was married her married, I met him because he was a friend of my managers in this guy really I was a little late to the party back before. The internet was as popular and his intense. It is as it is now There really is no late to the party. The party is ongoing and can get pretty shitty. Apparently
but he filled in a lot of areas in my music education and turning me on to music and and- and you know, as a musician as as well, you know in just telling me stuff about music no turning them into a whole world of bans, but also being a good friend, and we you know it's not like. We have lost touch but we're not We don't have the time we used to and we don't really talk as much as we did yet. Hardly we don't talk much at all, but I love the guy was great to talk to him, about history and about music and about you know his place in the music industry. Now it's pretty fascinating, smart guy, It was great to see him and, I think you'll, I think, you'll dig it. I think you'll dig the interview this is me and Jonathan contain talk in the garage John. I guess what were we gotta do here? Like there's some gaps,
there is a slight gap or from from what I knew in new york and then I gotta know maybe you're, worried about me side slide off the grid axing. I know you're the usually successful music manager and in and all as like what you owner, bar you're, like I feel like there was some sort of fifteen year gap we can get to that. But I guess I want to establish at the beginning that you know I've known you, for I guess what is it twenty years now yeah that sounds about right. Does it ninety five year? That's ants yet is like twenty years. That's crazy here right It is so I've known you very twenty years when I met you, you're a washed up musician. an hour an but you you had tasted it Unity, hasty fame he year when you met me. I definitely like a low right but like, but the
That's amazing about our friendship is that at the time I was sort of stuck in a rut musically in a lot of ways, and I got you you taught me we'd have these discussions sort of like I don't get power pop. What what is what is pop? What I had this booze based idea of music- and I just could run my brain around the difference- and we're like weathers there's a fourth chord, there's a minor chord and then there is a b minor chord or something like that and as like. That's it that's the key change. My whole life will it's like a it's a b. You know, there's like the beatles and stones. via new right definitely stones right, but I like to be those registered under idea. That's right from the theatres to remember is like I did Elvis costello. I know the squeeze by right. There was It was a. It was about a minor chord yeah right. It is about mine. Of course it's just like a minor instead of those in it. You know it's. Instead of going like edith D yeah, you know you would go
Edith, see, shirt minor right in that and because our guitar, whereas like I was a whole world out there, I just don't get and that's what the term yonder I cheap trick. I was able to make their replace its connection and and then categorize summit. And I did like, as part bands and move into that all other world that cause you can. I thank you for the boat go back because you are and that I think it at that time. Your biggest claim to feign that anyone would know would be the ban candy. It would be, they kill, be from candy guilty clark, rice, joint guns, roses ripe a candy had its day dinner year. Yet we had, we had a moment, that's actually how we met. We met because your manager that time to evacuate, Dave Becky was a big fan of candy. right and we and now as in the nineties. So I was not married yet, but I was living with Kim right. That sounds right. And I was women on sixteen three which is around the corner from you. Three blocks right. Nineteen and Becky sat.
We should hang out. You are kind of hang around with Becky a little bit and you thought you knew some of the comedy stuff, but you are all in and then we met because you told me other day: Is it so it's so dark for me, if there was a time, then I'll have a bar, your joke for it, but there's a time you know. I had had like three record deals and I had this thought that maybe musics now can be right for me. Maybe I'm not gonna be an astronaut rod and in a girl like my bans- had given me this job at sony by doing accounting work and oh yeah, it was horrifying and and so on and so I could get a discount seedy right layers or dvds, something and so so vacuous like I'll call my free and he'll, get you a discount, and I was like, oh god, and so I think I probably gave you like. I have this memory, that's fairly embarrassing me giving you like my cds and, like maybe
articles, I'd written going, hey, I'm not think I'm the guy, that's enough, You know just tryin like just by my own way into credibly hood right in what we remember going up there, the sony building a new came down from your office. I don't remember going up to that offers any met me in the store right, and I think I bought one of those many disk recorders that sounds about right yeah cause. There was right. That was what the instead of a cassette recorder. That's what be right, winger using that would have been something that would have been worth getting a disk anon for our rights. Yet also, the connection was,
if we were in hollywood. At the same time, I think yeah definitely that we started talking you when I was out here doing drugs with tennyson. You were like down the street I was I was at. I was sitting in the audience you're watching sam as I was backstage, cutting up lines for him because you're the band was candy yeah. That was. That was a big thing with like that era of music yeah to go to the store like it was like a one of stand up comedy right. It was all connected there because of sam real, yes yeah. He was definitely like the linchpin but dice right to an extent as well and just like there was, I mean there were so both periods, both the eighty, period and then, when we hung out in the nineties with all your friends, those like real, like pinnacle errors of comedy completely different right yeah, no, I would be in that was what I think why we start become friends, as I knew you were sort of beat up. I was
the beat up. We both had checks and we need to do that Well, then, occasionally authority with three blocks away. you and renee will go out with me and give me greatly, because you and I could talk naked talk anymore, It was what you re supposed to do better. I see your base pointer and songwriter. So, yes, oh, I grew up in berkeley yeah as group a hippie. My father was a left wing. Radical. Now he's right wing radical david David. What's his David David David Horowitz people know him right. I remember that was compelling to me to a sort of like how do you live with that guy right? So he was, you know he was a left wing radically. He was editor ramparts than he. Which was a big kind of left wing rag. At the time I m there are eight sixty zero seventies and then he you know he was a big supporter of the black panther party right,
and yet there was in there was an episode or an incident or whatever you call it where he had recommended that one of his friends to be the bookkeeper and they killed her and that's what flipped him right and sort of like basically he's an eye dealers, yemen, is ideals, flip the other direction yet. Well, I mean: do I think that the gap idealism and there was a sort of like god the grand world view and then what came right down to two action that can get pretty scary specially when they, what day just killed her for have that have, I think they killed her because she realised that there were running guns and drugs because he was the bookkeeper and like hey, wait a minute lake on that was your dad's friend here and that just that was it. from then on out it. It was the other way, because I think that in I think that there is probably like a lot of incredible about the black panthers and a lot of real.
Add about the blessed sure yeah I mean yeah. My girlfriend reads about it too. There was yeah. There was definitely a lot coming at them and a lot within the organization that was it so hard like you. You know it's like being like super famous is like being Kim kardashian right, but with like an idealist, so they may have started out and been like incredibly right, but as you get so famous and people are attacking, you right now. I don't know and also heard but they're trying to kill you from the inside. They were like always being penetrated right by those agent, tourism people that Austria, so your dad It came up in that craziness in in in the bay area in the sixties, yeah, so it so. I grew up like that and then, when punk rock hit I was like. Oh, I want to be in a band right right, so I sold my. Comic books, I went to allay in new york comic book. I, when I was twelve year, I sold my spiderman, so I can- and I like a boy- send a keyboard and united way night and
I dunno. If I still know how to play that, but you know it was punk rock, so like seeing the ramones and the clash and the pistols I was like. Oh, I could do this. He didn't see him live, though oh I saw all those fans a merry early in san francisco yeah, I really I saw the clashes one of their first gigs in america at the temple, beautiful and sentences. Galea. Definitely like made me want to play music yeah. I saw the remains of the keystone berkeley. Opening for earthquake, I saw the last pistol show, went to land so yeah with super into it, and I When I took my paper out money and I went to london, new york and allay you know cause I was like, but I can't be it in a punk been in berkeley right. You know we're not. There are a few more years, not for ten years, then, ten years later, I was in france at green day and ran through it. But this is seventy eight, seventy seven so I went there to where to allay burst
with the eleven we're a for like eighteen, sixteen, oh my god destroy. high school. Now I was I was like. I was a good student, so I was getting a college scholarship and all this, but I knew what I wanted to do so I went to london was like the summer, a punk that was incredible. New york, with like terrifying is walking in the bowery, lay seventy seventy seven. So that was it yet nothing but junkies, You know I was this like. Oh my getting I'm gonna die. Until I and this like a giant billboards and worn baby him shameful em like oh. I think I should ve near the things good in it. So I am in I got us. I got a scholarship to use your leg. Yeah paid for me to live and that's move, tell aid being. back then I'll start going to what were you going to school for to pay? For me, too,
the pump. Then you are major aim. Now you mean sure I may I graduated with was a good student, does get it taking tests so agnes economic, social elegy. But things are bullshit made, but we must have done something school. No must have sunk into those seem to be in a relative. The guy, I know- and I didn't know any of this at the proper. You probably all you know it's all a path right for it so far as you and your brother, your sort of like you, know geniuses. Yes, I am, Things like your whether he invented netscape write his his. So his partner is really a genius so certain This certainly ready with geniuses like anyone or celebrated, is big. You know helping them like helping the genius come out right.
I did alright yeah yeah, but then my brother is wildly successful. Yeah he's got this VC company that we basically do the same thing except he has like ideal in millions and he deals in billions the opportunities would tat companies here and you're dealing with rock and roll blood through music people. Here I to go to allay you're seventeen years. You're at u c, l a I go to this club called the starwood every tuesday and wednesday, it's punk night yeah like darby crash and the bags and the germs and fear, and these bands are playing and I walk into the stern one of these nights is my favorite thing. I go see all every every tuesday and wednesday ago, when one night I walk in and there's this nikki six. Standing here- and I wouldn't want to be back by dishonest stand there with his hair out, I was like when he looks like johnny thunder yeah, and so I grew my hair, and that was like the start of that area.
Of you. A metal year, hair metal became like it became such an exciting crazy time so that so that I was a time were: punk was sort of arguing out. Anne and rock was redefining itself because I mean like this is post aerosmith, its post, all that shit and these in new york dolls- I guess here metal was- was well metal and rock was like persona non grata right. It was. This is seventy nine when I moved della. So it's really just, but it's at that time in l, a what's happening is stuff like the knack right like post, pont, varied norway and new wavy cars is rainest stuff, so that created the power vacuum for hair metal. They come in that's right I guess it's always a counter the end and in in the uk there is the british metal scene in the uk that was exciting, with motor head with motor head and saxon and deaf leopard ultimately came out of that.
Maiden beer and you you, you can feel underground of what metal was in an alley in LOS angeles, like bastardize stuff and make chinese and re presentable, and that's what hair metal So when you were coming so you agree or higher up there. Are you learning how to play bass at this point or yeah definitely cause? I I started like thinking. I was a better piano player keyboard player than it was a bass player. So I thought it was going to be keyboard player, but it just looked a lot cooler to play basin Seemed easier now you planning programmes, I have played in several punk bands here with anybody, not anybody of consequence. Yeah I played in the you know in l, a it's great cause like it used to be. This magazine called the recycler, which I guess is what craigslist would be now right and you would just meet people in this thing. I met mick mars. That way, you know just people would answer ads and that's how I make Kilby go before ultimately went on to come through roses. He was my guitar player
and yeah. I had an ad. That said, I think it said something like I want a guitar player, with messy hair into David Bowie and nick gilder in the suite, or something like that and I and yeah and said killed the call that I met gill b. Oh alright said you guys are like eighteen, seventeen, eighteen eighteen years old and you're seventy and I'm eighty and you're growing your hair out and and who were the bands. When did you start going around to watch metal now after the punk, when you decided really weren't metal bands, that's the thing is like there were, but they were just like playing out and ass, a dna monrovia and was is in london around. Will that was Nicky's ban? That was they were too. Starting free motley crew, yet pre motley crew. That's the ban that I really loved, limelight and yeah. So they were just starting out, so that this theme was was trot, was pushing out. You have like upon kid receded and I guess, as as alive event or something
people can respect the Sort of new wavebands was very kind of you, I was more into a dance thing or what are they born alive thing? They were, but it was like they weren't. They didn't look cool like you know they they had. They were just not exciting, right, the knack were a good band again. Yet I didn't look cool so you're saying london and you get gil b and you guys are growing your johnny thunders hair. That's right what you told me about how it was done at one point I was sort of fascinated by like it was a lot of spray net right yeah. That whenever we write for ways like gill be figured out that you could take ivory soap and rub it on your hands and just go like this do your hair stand up for a long time with that lithic yeah- it was pretty, it was pretty gross cause. The soap when you sweat, when you played the soap, would get in your eyes. And so you guys are all living together
Here we all had to the former set to bed from apartment on palm right below sunset here and motley crew was one black away on Clark nea, and so we Go to the parties at their house, but they weren't big, yet either right, oh no, they were just starting starting a year, you're hanging around with the with molly crew and you're candy, and who else was around? I mean of a machine our wasn't around yet why you weren't around yet, but is he was around his israeli love, dizzy here. The guy was our great unbelievable. Like he's yoga here, Hu, a gay was soon hours ali. He would just listen to examine sweetie at a boom box or that tape o unless an over and over and he's good player he was like he was. He was the right
liar right all rhythm yeah, valid resolution year. Yeah flashed worked worked at at that time. He was tower tower video working, but is he? Is he an actual had a bank, a hollywood pros yeah, yeah yeah, I meant I mean I I booked their first gig in a in in l, a at a at a place called Madame Wong's chinatown, which was a chinese restaurant. I remember that, and it was the audience was basically me kilby and our friend tempe, who had a group of flies on fire. That was really get. The idea I remember watching their first gig now arose about hollywood was the first axel can write going holy. Shit like this guy is superstar, knew it oh yeah. One yeah, just from the minute he opened his mouth ear, just like one, This gonna happen so window The scene starts or like like. When does it seem start coalescing? So what happens is no one will
in the bands- no one will play the records and a couple of the bans get people to make their own record. Motley crew got some rich investors here. I think there was Alan kaufman, I think was his name. But it said kaufmann and kaufmann on the record and then choir riot gotta, partial quiet riot, really blew up rat got milton berle's kid Yeah made their record for them, so everybody had like an investor or hatred, yeah, yeah and they, but then Kalo S, which was like the classic rock station. In l, a started playing these bands and the phones lit up and then empty, and they were local, yet there were local band. So there is a connection by this from allay. This is what's happening that right and then mtv started playing quite right and then bang your head became like you know and come on filled in boys and all of a sudden choir right. It's who, like five million records and every record company, was an l hey going
me one of the very everybody was trying to do their thing. Everybody was like five, you know yeah, so so everybody was getting. signed really. So you and gill before the other members, a candy el, who I went to high school with? Yes, my is my friend and John schubert, whom I met through a guitar player that I found in the music and in the end were aware. Those guys sewed tiles in I talked to colleagues. Did I hear a fillip singing? He too makes his own records and he lives in ass. Achieves its now and John, as a teacher john best, guy. Ever he got out he s a teacher in inglewood, oh good, so am. I always is weird I've gotten his age, I'm thrilled when people get out. You know I guess,
for you. It is like. Sometimes you have the courage to get out. It is there's that thing where it's like. You know sometimes like I'll think about it and I'm like wow a fight at a hit. I probably still be candy. His still trying to get another here. You said that amazing thing to me too. This is out of your reconfiguring, my music brain. Would there was some conversation? We had there's a couple, a great moments and we'll get to him when we get to that period by you said to me. You know you have to realise it be. Adult is realising our limitations. just where we say that we have these walks, you and I in new york. We just walk- and I tell you how I was doing the wrong. thing every way and he be like yeah yeah. then you just lay one these will gems are made, but that realizing your limitations like if your talented Wait like. I never forgot that, like a like it stays with I dunno where you got it, you know work at where dirty harry.
a lot is you know this is a famous clint, eastwood speech where he goes. I know what you're thinking fire six shots are only five right, the end of that speech. He goes a man's to know his limitation, no shit and that resonated with us philosophically that speech was so important to me that I you know, I used to love movies, so I would take those kind of thing yeah, and that was one of the ones I had on tape, and I would listen to what other ones I terrible things like fast times at ridgemont, high yeah. I definitely know all the words China town was a big one for me, Jack Nicholson, visa, and but when you take these old things and then you knew tape, these movies, sometimes those things to stick with you, so I tell you and gilbane the other to do your kicking around. He put you put a boost. Rightness songs gets me,
you're. This I'm right here. So I am. I think that that was. I think it was probably a mistake, but I was definitely of I was very much a control freak out. Probably still am, I definitely didn't share. I think I know it's like I'm glad that I'm not in abandoned. social media age does. I think, I'd hate myself. This of the nazi says m right, but at that time I was like oh yeah, I'm a genius. I went to write these songs and you guys gonna, blame and at they probably would have been better. Sir. I was, I think it is good at lyrics here, but I think the songs would have been better if I him the head, everybody right, but now I you as a manager- and I know that you no part of the evolution of surviving in the music history now is that you are you guys to respect
managers and producers that were hands on with the band in crafting songs and sounds, and but at that time you you were in the dark about that stuff. Here I I didn't I had. No, I didn't know anyone in the music business. So I didn't know what a producer did. A manager did. A record company I didn't know anything like in some respects. That was amazing because it was like there is this naivete from what we did we're like like. If, if I had known, I probably wouldn't have done half the stupid things that we did not like, we had like lower. We lit the curtain Trop curtain at the roxy on fire because we had homemade flash pots and they like, we can bring the place down and we ve, probably shouldn't, have done that right had the homemade flies but see where I live. I we didn't know, we didn't know anything you ever. The rocks you after the gay. Yet we we fortunately like. We saw the curtain go up and and me and give me stumped it out
It was in the front yeah before it before it became a problem so who was signed to hussein candi syrup candy was first signed to a label called curb records, which is mike curb who's, a who's who does well in country, but he definitely like notorious for being very tough on the deals yeah and then how'd. You get that guy that guy came through Kim fowley. You knew Kim family Kim family, was yes, Sir Kim valley was really who help candies get out. I got a notorious monster in some way. He taught me. The music business aim valley there like I don't know, I don't know so. I know so little about him other than these bits and pieces from the runaways in his solo career was sort of odd correct he's such an interesting, odd, strange person. So so we were playing shows that this is how I got the music video so replying to show it. Madame longs west
Yeah, we're like on at eleven o'clock at night on a tuesday like no one cares yeah and the band before is this band called tantrum? That has somebody from a band that Kim produced before so I seek him in the elevator and I'm like oh shit that can fairly how'd. You know, I'm from what just from pictures and cream magazine of him with the runaway some neck. Oh, this is my ticket, nay yegg. I'm gonna get make this guy like me. So he looks at my shirt and I've got the super cool, but we print of, but it's like a black and red prince, or did you like? That's from so that's gullies, mit becomes my band where, like we're in a we're across between the romanians in but the monkeys I said you like our kid it's so he watched the ban. He's like he's. Are you doing it all wrong? He's like come to my apartment play me off songs and I'll. Tell you how to do this, and we went to his apartment. To like seven in the morning is, like you know, he's kind of a creepy
range guy. Here we don't know, what's gonna happen, just you and give me your all of you all of us. It's a whole band end and I'm playing em like night vienna, every song of ever written and- and he goes ok kid whence you next gig, because the troubadour he gus- here's my rolodex call every single person in this and put them on the guest list. and it took us a week we ve called everybody in the rolodex a day were calling from can follies office. You invite our show, we played the tutor it's a line around the block like if we dislike with the beatles there's like girls, throwing roses at taking pictures like oh shit, it's showbusiness a horse, so yeah so and so Kim was like. Oh it's like alright we're going to get your a good deal and we started like bringing people down and we played for clive davidson. You know, and just the? U reeling! People, oh yeah, like by the way like to month into being
and no business playing for anybody. He had this point, one of the biggest guys record industry, air and at the clive Davis, showcase, Michael lloyd, who's, an a and our guy and a producer for mike curb records was there and he goes oh I'll, sign you and he had produced shaun, cassidy and leif garrett and We we didn't see eye to eye. He wanted us to be more of a bubblegum band yeah we wanted to be, and so I was like well, we gotta get out of this deal and at and we started building, we in a from that children are shine, the only realised after years. Of course, his word eighty resigned. Oh, it's erected, deal lads, thine and then a so we just as you know we were and we were building and like we. We had like a real thing going and allay here because it from the true, but our show was like. Oh I get it shall be. So we have to figure out how to make us feel bigger than we are rightly and em we got
we got a manager, we gotta tv, the Elk, because this lesson this year, the ryan, television beyond it and make a tv show out of the band yak as weak. We in a we all live together like the monkeys and will add, like the same kind of haircuts area, seem like a tv in to your crew. just by coincidence, none of you guys, were fuck ups right, you have, I was prior fall, but you were you army reserves. There was no young, as there is now we were. We would definitely reasonably cleanly right. We would trying Emily were. We were kids do so we would trenck, but not right. You know
elite ranks right. Was you weren't gunning for the end? That's right, yeah right! So you get this tv thing too. So we get the tv thing with orion. She goes well. You need a manager because we didn't have a manager where we signed a record deal, and so she brought in howard marks who is managing kiss, and he said. Oh, I, like you and he's like. Oh, this record deals terrible and I was like yeah. I hate this record deal and he was like ok I'll get you out I'll, bring kisses and our guy so that he comes flies in from the in the eyes of the third bit. You that's all You get out of a deal pretty much. We bought. We, we bought our way out, but it was like relatively inexpensive as a few thousand right right cause. I think Michael's you were in a known quantity, you weren't, making money, and I think, Michael that no, we hadn't done anything and I think Michael the producer was like. I think he probably was like this kids. This gets really full of himself. I don't need this in my life.
Because you're fighting him fight them on everything. So now you're signed with the kiss guy yeah, so he he's the manager. Yeah he's a manager. He remarks at howard marks. He brings jerry Jaffe who's, a a an ar guy in new york out to see us and cherries it. I love jerry and he scientists to mercury records and that's that's how we got The deal for the first candy refers gang erected and you go into the studio, that's where you are and what a producer does and we go. You know produced it, so so you know we have no idea what to producers and would go can fill spam. George Washington's? Who is going to lead to less than the guys that we ve heard of enterprise right right, right they'll, I got no no, and I'm like well think Jimmy. I inner had done the raspberries records and, like we really like the raspberries here so cycle, let's call Jimmy einer.
see me with like all right I'll I'll I'll producing you, kids need a lot of work. Everything to me said was right We need a lot of work, but again is at war process, like the what was the learning curve on that way in when he said, work what the you as the sort of based plainly. the band? Oh, I was so Where again I was listening to anybody here. I was just like. We got a slit right, we're plant, we're plan, the rocks in the whisky and selling out, we are in we ve gotta unite riding kids. What do you know about getting on the radio yet ever, and so I would do what he asked like you had asked for lear cages and things here, but but it was in a begrudging way here we do the record you like it, no because it's like
they hate it because we didn't really listen to him. He didn't really make the record that he wanted us to media and we it wasn't as punk as we were right, so you were still drawing from it seem like either pedigree was was pretty poppy. I mean if you you're talking, raspberries, yeah yeah we we wanted to be- we wanted to be a successful- remains a commercial successful variety, the romancer jean yeah, but out we wanted to be the remains that were on the radio right. So So what happened so they release a record. It's pretty much crickets, except that mtv takes a liking to the video which I had to write the treatment. Whatever happened to fund now. Yeah, that's your big almost here so I enter in oak is because I couldn't give up control. I wrote the video, treatment, though all all stupid, shit, ok and end. The so mtv starts playing the video
and we get get some tours with rick springfield inquiry hard, but because we're not like as big as Michael Jackson, we're just like fuck. This, like you know, kick the singer. Out of the bay hand in all kinds of stupid, but ok, so, but by those, are your bill do it. So this is not really the world of test surround him now no because the record didn't sound like testosterone and metal, but that's not your bag anyway. No, I was, I was fine with that, being a metal ban here, but the thing like em, but one of the things it was interesting that happened where and it's maybe it's all of it affected, like our manages. So at that time I was, I was friends with the poison guys and I was helping them slightly, I didn't. I wasn't like a big part of their thing or anything, but they were living in harrisburg pennsylvania. I would give him some tips on how to delay right and it's real fun here and you can get.
India, how'd, you meet them and I met them through another band from Baltimore called the vamps yeah and at and then they got a friend of mine and gill b c c deville to play guitar for them, then that's how I became like good friends with them. Any breach pulled him out della yeah came come out to allay meat, can fairly yeah on that kind of stuff. Is aid in touch with valley? Here he passed away recently. I know I've stayed in touch with them all time, real yeah. He heckled me itself by south west, at a panel of maize, and so so, but one of the things that I realized that, like they did much smarter than we did, is they did pop music, but they put it in the guise of a metal banba like we
just floating in no man's land like the right, a guy who have the the college, radio guy at mercury and a jackass with who I'm still friends with who who's this great guy. He was the first guy to tell me the truth in the record business yeah. He goes kid. I know what you are he's like, but you're fucked, because you think your lord to the new church as label thinks you're. Where I was like, oh no yeah. That was the truth, and that's when I realized that it was like. Oh so we that's. So if, if we're going to stay on the labels business, that's why we started doing the rick springfield cory, hardness like the
think we're pop ban. Ok, we gotta play ball and arrival, and did you go over with those audience I'll? We killed the here because my singer was: he had a great poppy voice which will who kyle here this is like it's such a nice, it's such a good pop star, vs and that we were We were. We were dangerous for those crowd right, so little girls yeah all little girls and they loved it. And but, but you know we wanted to be, we had no patience whatsoever, so we're like fuck this going to get rid of the singer guild is going to sing and also we we imploded ourselves for no good reason. After the first record of first record yep, and then what happens? What what does that look like? So then? What happens is l a changes. We come back from tour and all of a sudden guns and roses. It's a new scene
the dark or seen so like now. It's it's the real hair metal thing, that's right, and so it's allay is annex blows, yeah and its in it's incredible. It's like everyone's walking around in a ban passing out flyers and right up there on sunset, honest, the strip is like all metal kid. That's were like that's penelope. appearances second movie: penelope spirits, a second movie witches decline of western civilization, with the guy from wasp in the pool. It's one of the great our guide in turn out well now, think anyone in that movie turned out that well into had all those these two. It was at the time. That is the time. So you get back and you're like what the fuck yeah it was like wow. It's it's so crazy, what's happening here. So what
Thence is and that's when the comedy stores, koranic hat comedy, stirrest cracking reich he'll be an I go. Oh if we split into two bans will probably get to record deals, is everyone's getting a record deal and if we stay candy, we're gonna, probably just like in a nobody at that time. Nobody, if you lost your record, deal you're a kind of persona non grata, So we split into two bands and john the drummer, and I became electric angels. Oh yeah, I had that cd and they killed, be, becomes kill for thrill seer and we both get record deals right. We moved to new york and we get a record deal three weeks later with land to kill the gets recorded with emptier. So, as I say, that was that was part two The the the gypsy years I chose electric angels comes out and does nothing there electric and comes out does not do I did the label get behind? Is they didn t in their defence
and not knowing what I know now we didn't give america to get behind. I ha labels are really good at radio yeah, that's their thick, yet they have control over it at that I'm here the ideal. Still they are here, it's still there it that's that's what they're, exceptionally there the best in the world, let if you really want to be on the radio have to be on a big late. You know, you know it hits. Are they know it hits are and they, but they, and they also know, went to spend the money you spend a little bit more. Many browning ahead on stuff, but they also have people that work at those places that are really good at video, and this is something you learn later. I learn that I learned that the hard way right with electric angels. We gave him a record that sounded like it wasn't. It wasn't a metal record it we, I kind of dark and gloomy, and it wasn't like a pop record. It was like what do we do with this: the right radios? What we do
So we did a lot of touring and we we built up a good cop following just like candy did but same thing. It was like fuck, this label alike in oh, yes, same implosion, I too, electric angels craps out. So when do you start applying the and no you're limitations? That's when I start to go maybe I'm not gonna after I had to give a childhood dreams path, yell at the childhood dreams pass. Let me get a job. Let me like some money here and the inner that jobless terrible, but you had no, but you had no vision for what that would be in terms of like how am I gonna make my? How am I gonna get big guy like you, who had bacco keziah start somewhere. That's so how do you end up in the fuckin accounting department sony that it was more like? Well, maybe quality of life is different. Like me, I'm wrong, like maybe I'm wrong about everything right it. Maybe I shouldn't be in music. Maybe I shouldn't maybe there's like
we'll. Never driven by money like you were, never driven by right was driven by. Yet how do I get big here? and how do I do it? I want. How do I do it? I want yes like, maybe maybe I I mean I'm good at accounting like it's easy, I do it from my ban and it was easy, but it was such a miserable job. I got bells policy I remember that cause. That's when we were friends of this, like the mid nineties, were hanging out in your miserable, and you got me a d things are teach me about the music business. We got our girl, In sweden, italian food by your house and I'm tellin you what's going on in comedy in your like you, no kind of china in about that and were seen because right that it was me and louis, and tat, burying nick deposit is sort of like right around the beginning of all comedy and out of things are happening for me, but that warrant happening and then your face drops have you just falls down. I'm are we went out to dinner MIKE what the fuck in Europe
supposing it away yeah, that's like it was at. It was with you, when I like first noticed it were alike in my face- dropped in us like what the fuck is going on here, yeah yeah cause. I remember when we went on one of those walks yeah and I went to you- go to a doc. four bells policy in their like. Will we don't know what causes it right? We know how to cure right. Homelike fuck like this, isn't it looked like they did. I strongly, I hope so Bab, where you can hear. I gotta know they say, pray, go away. How long and I went to an acupuncture forests and the guy goes. You dont like a job quit your job, I was like yeah. That makes sense. How did he know that? And so I was like okay, I'm going to dive back into music and I started producing things. Remember I produced that girl, the new york loose. Do you remember year the and attorney bridget yeah yeah she was great, and so it just. I was producing things
so I would just like I'm gonna quit this job dive into music and then, like new york, loose happened right, I'm trying to remember what she looks like she was like blonde, like cool, looking like a Debbie Harry, kind of looking girl yea. Yet so got her a deal guys as her manager. No real, just like your kind of er yeah. It was just hustling right, you know and who'd you call to get that deal I just like just she was a good hustler and I was a good hustler and we just started like working everybody in the business right and then once that happened, I got that job at fiction right, that was the guy from the cure right guy manage reference parry. The crisis management and guide heap me set you up in an office in the b mg bill, that's exactly right in new york, and you were just sort of I doing his. What He needed, but yeah alive retie idle every time turkey and europe down The amazing thing is like you. Never could really tell me exactly what you did for him, but this is his rug. Oh yeah, that's right to see right cats,
left his new york apartment. It was like he just take whatever you need a rug and I'll take that this is the same rugged dude. So Chris parry yeah he's he's my hero, essentially because he's the one who showed me how to do it all so he was, he was in a band from new zealand called the formula. the kid we london. He had a big hit news. Move to london, the band stiffed he became an Our guy he's the guy in the great rock n roll swindle. Fear that the pistols, the demo money and then they sign with somebody else. That's him here and then he signed the jam and produce the jam albums and he became and then he found the cure and he quit his job. today in our guy and became the charismatic. Whose yea and r for am I polly. Or polydorus? Yes, you, like you're the guy tommy. What in our as I know any this shit in my gain people there, the guy's a sign, the guys for the labels, not too big money gained yet and if you're good at it, so guy. What's his name again, Chris perry, Chris parry
is now the manager the cure, but by the time you meet him, the cure is like already ready q. Huge they're doing where almost done the ear year anyway, so he was like by that time He had moved on to doing radios heat. He built a radio station in the uk called ex fm right and he, but he just showed me like that, the music business it's It's what you make of it is kind of like what I did when I was in a band only in the band anymore. So like I can do it with different bands and it's it's just like it really is whatever you want it to be the right of all. I remember that the one thing that the kind of blue your mind when eurozone the thing I think started giving you the This policy was that these artists were not picking up their residual check. Crazy you're just be like morgiana morrison, like eight hundred and sixty thousand. Is there and men are gonna, find it so that you
I think that was parties or like holy shit, yet there there's like all this money here, right, so he's like. So he you can do whatever you want in the music business when you have that that zone deserve produce, manage an hour You know it's sort of once you're in the house. You can come to do whatever yeah and it's more like you do. What you think is right, rather than like what you think he'll direct daddy? He just wanted me to find bantam an orphan fine writers and sign up to publishing deals and which I did for him. We had like we had a bunch of hits just to have as a manager. You are, you are sort of doing publisher. He wanted me to do it for him as a publisher, okay, so sign like the songwriting part of it right and you signed people yeah yeah, yeah yeah. We had. We had a good run who like with who we did a headache,
the first hit I had was primitive. Radio got. No. I remember that is likewise in EU. Like you, you got what was your it's in there and you tell me you ve got some unsolicited yeah. I was an unsolicited office and, like I'm listening to it and the key, it's like, oh, like I sent that in years ago, and I'm like oh shit- I don't know what I'm doing, but then it became a giant hit with the bb king, salman yeah, with a bb kings have been downhearted baby, then downhearted bay, the right and you're like I'm, going to make this a hit, and that was the first time you did that that was the first. You do that. You just took the got it in the cable guy soundtrack and from the cable guy soundtrack it just took off like the station, started playing it and then so you, the publishing part of the publishing world, which I remember now that you are involved with, was getting smaller bans that I've been around for a while? These deals to just have, music on, shows that wasn't good. I know Does it for my show that zero a route to go is because
no. I did not the money to pay for hits the threat from history of music, that's right cause is ridiculous. So there's all these hungry bands around that, if you go you'll get, jewels and I'll. Give you ten thousand up front that threat. If you let him do it up. Put this the song on the show You got on the cable guy and then it be huge here and then it became a giant here. Then now your hip make now I'm hit my getting. Then I find this kid jive jones, put him with a writer to write fur because somebody's developing a new girl and they need a girl song and they write candy I give it to Mandy more say in our guy. It becomes a giant hit for many more and launches her, so What's your cut on that? We get twenty five percent of this. when you steal at the bmg but yeah. This isn't the bmt building. So, like things are going well on the bmt building, yam doing these things for him and her but like, but then napster hits and when napster hit. That's when I started he, he because you were still in new york that member
I would like the internet's gonna change. Everything and like we'll, be able make your own records and all this stuff right. You saw that coming in and also there was this guy member. There was a time where you are actively scouting. I care member. For what reason america's you remember, one c m J came. No, you know you always have all those records in your always running around doing stuff. You, your managing, yet worry! No, that's when I was I was, but I was like I had this thing in my head, where I was gonna be able to do it the way I would have done it as I was in a bad light. Yourself. They rankly because of the internet. Ok, so that every ran out of time. I get so you you saw this coming year, someone appstore had it just change everything. For me, it was like. Oh my god, it's like the whole business is gonna change broke open here, that time was that when you develop their relationship with Don Arden, I remember that was that big life, changer yeah. That was crazy. I'm very glad that I didn't do anything with
because because, like how do they haven't gone, arden manage black sabbath. His is daughter, is Sharon osborne, but he so managed like jerry Lewis, oh yeah, he waved big british ay huge manager year, so old schools are very old school run. At that time he was probably passes His rider remember that cause you I I dont member, how he I doubt you what was that? Well, those guys the older guys like seymour stein and don they they took a liking. You know when I started like looking for bands and saying I was going to do things on the internet, because there weren't very many people saying that at right time, these these older guys that were really good their thing. We're like this. I dont know what the internet is, but this kid's talking about something, maybe there's something there. So there will be the heart of it yeah, so ok so how does Donn Arden reach out to you? Because I remember didn't you go to london,
and hang out with a so dawn, came to me through a guy who worked at sunday named gregg mc bowman, who was like you was a business guy avionic, but he knew dawn here. through throughs, cause don how to deal with sony issues like. Oh you do. You should meet this young guy who likes the internet.
So that's how what was your experience meeting him? Because I remember it was pretty handful yeah I mean he was an amazing character. Yeah, you know what he learned from him. He knows the same thing, it's sort of like you. If you, if you create the character of what you are, you know again like it's show business yeah, you can make stuff happen. You just you can't like everything like the idea of having records that are going to be huge is is a ridiculous idea, but it's not impossible right. It's just improbable yeah. So the difference between that is what I learned from guys like don and seymour, and chris is just like. Oh yeah, like everyone, it's really uneven playing fields right on what the song that's going to be the song of the sun
Is he added just after like get a song that you believe in and then try and will it in a figure out how to get it through a bright and that's what you are from those guy in a castle record business was started, is like a street hustler business right there. All street hustlers ryan best of ways. They knew where the guy that had the foresight to start to hustle internet I was like I was deaf. One of the early I was doubly early in that process, certainly like from coming from, an hour angle like it other people were hustling the internet, but there more looking at it in terms of like security in stuff. That was more business, see ya I whistling I was early on going like this is gonna, be a new way to market things, so when did you become a manager? So, at the end of ah the nineties, Chris was like Chris that one, the bmt thing he was like, I think I'm gonna retire I'll. Give you some money, give me like
thirty grand or something which, at that time to me with a lot of money and he's like each start. You should. What you want to do with this internet thing like you, don't need dumb, arden hardener. You know these guys. Just do it yourself so you don't need any money. If what you're telling me is right, you don't need any money and he was right. Yes, that's how I started was is like:
started with a little bit of money in an office in soho and some interns, and I started looking for do it yourself. People and the first artists was. It was still. My artist is one of my best friends, butch walker yeah, and he was just like me only way. More talented here and I was like oh, this is going to be easy. I know what to do with him. Yeah I'll just do what I would do with me he's a producer. He he's an artist and he's a big producer. He's done. Taylor, swift, katy, perry, Avril levine pink, like you know, but, and also many other like cool, things like a frank turner and brian fallon in and wiser and his sister, a mix of all kinds of me. Though, when you met him, he was what he was a singer singer, songwriter, which he still is but like in my mind, you know thinking like how I
I think, for me all these bands thought he was great, so I was like. Oh, you should produce these bands and it started out with small bands like bowling for soup and here Anne S, our seventy one and he had hits with those which led to simple plan which he had hit with, which led to a which led led the paying quickly to katy and now as if I get bigger than big yeah and its salts, so he was First, I really like a super that was like we can do this. He ass. He took a real chance on make us. He had a record deal I didn't have any comprehensibly. There is no reason for two, let me mechanical, but he believe my my hustle, and yet we fed it. We ve got a really good run here and then who is the next higher? Do you remember my friend, Pablo Leanna guy with Benji at colombia? So pablo is he was he was
always a great ay and our guy who had always early on things and he was like in others. This kind of music called emo, miss eyre, like it's like kids, really like it yet all over the internet yeah. So I started like our rights. I stuck looking for so is anyone making money? There are cds still selling at this point? Cities are still selling,
and there's no no one, everyone's blind to the fact that the that part of the business is going to be obliterated right, everybody's just like yeah, whatever it's like a little fad that kids like, but we don't care about right. So I go. I find these emo bands on m p, three dot com, there's a whole scene of 'em and sign a bunch of them because there's nobody in the music business doing it and one of those bands is, is fall out boy here and fall out boy. If not for fall out boy. I'm probably not a successful rennet are certainly not as successful as I am right. Pete from fall out boy is like
have no joke marketing his me but better, and that he's no joke at marketing, but he has that ambition that I had year and then he has a singer, Patrick who's, so talented, and so we built this thing. Ah, oh and one more key thing happens at that time. I always thought I needed a partner rear. In my thing, as somebody who was completely different than me. I didn't get the call, I don't think he would have been the right guy. I don't think he would have wanted to do it. As probably and I met, I met Bob Mclean, who is still my partner, and he and I was like I have this band fall out boy. Can you like get them some tours and do that stuff and he carried them on his back and
They became this giant. They with their road manager know who he was like. I would say he was like he worked for me, except I couldn't pay him because I had no money, so he was just like you know. He had the right spirit. He was like yeah, whatever I'll look after it yeah and then a that's. How we've built the company as we built that band or he really them on on tour. So you took these kids off the online world. Are your basically out of you know unity boards or what was do. What would have been read it at the time and we realise that they had a following of kids, who were off the grid? because they were now alienated from mainstream music and they had their own thing and you realize at that time that that the nuts and bolts of the game, always were, but now more than ever was gonna be touring. That's debts and merchandise. Yeah
and then end and really just like, but building community like a few of fans- and you have the right song here and the right singer, then you can be big. Those there, like that if things right yeah, because that's why, when we finally reconnected you're like yam huge, I mean you didn't say that but you're like I got, these huge bands fall out boy and panic at the disco mike who so pete found panic at the disco. Pete was like yo. I found this other band panic at the disco and it was like sounds like you, like yeah, they're cooler than me like this. We say we should sign him with there'll, be It can. Solo, p was yea and our guy on there yeah, basically yeah, and so we bring sign panic at the disco. We make a record for like ten grand and we hear the record bob and I hear the reckon were like holy shit like this will probably sell fifty thousand records we've put the record at and he just goes bat shit crazy, like kids flip out,
we we ended up selling three million of the record we made for ten thousand dollars. So now the record company thinks you're a junior yeah yeah. So now it's like okay, these guys we don't. What this emma thing is, but these guys to quickly- and so we ve got the- is got these bans and I think they selling out madison square garden size places its pretty pretty nuts since its, and at that time you ve got butch in these two bans, these two bantam we have a couple more of these kind of emo bandy about. We have a hip hop one called Jim class euros that peat found. That's all selling like massive hits same thing so that was your wave so yes, and where the kings of Emma rio, that we do that for life. A few years now. When do you start? Like you know, using your experience and also your pop sensibility to guide, Guys me what's that relationship! That's that's definitely started just as it gets better like that
The more I do, this, the better I am with with artists, but that that started from the from day one there there's like a because both Bob and I were in bands. We can speak a common language yeah. It makes a lot of sense for people to know for the bands. Oh when they say you know, they go hey. You might wanna, like repeat that part writer, and from this of a sound like you're like we need a hook, yeah area, but this is that a whole score astir rare, but this is the beginning right right, air, so likely that we, I mean there's gonna, be a period where, like in its three week period, both of em around the cover rolling stone, so we're just like writing away right and a butt, and that seem was very much like you know it's a seem like seattle or the currency. I'm like you know: paramedic juice hike
haven't seen this ends, we're really only emma. So I start thinking like ok, the record what do I know where you have now. You have some cachet now I have some idea, but but it still like it's very specific right, so I'm like. Well, what do I know about the record business? What if I thought that that I could do different in a contrary and way, so I was like well the record business abandons artists before the public does yeah. So if we could find some artists that, we're successful for a record of yeah and just have one more hit. They'd be right back in it right, and so I that's when I met my friend sam hollander who's, a writer producer who had worked with our bands and said you should meet pat from train here, and I was like I remember
the first train record yeah, you remember drops of jupiter and meet Virginia and they were big and then they they had five years where they were not big. So I was like you know. I dunno if train gas with my stuffies, like you will, like pat he's very funny, he's very dark here and he's. What I didn't know is he's also very ambitious and very talented yeah. So I meet pat, and I like him because he's funny and dar here and like alright. Well, you know he's like. Will you listen to my you? Don't do bands like me it's like at I don't but he's like what would you listen to my songs and he plays me he I go how many there he goes if I go to, if I'd take him in but yeah, so we sit down on listening to. Songs and he's got these songs. He's got this one, hey soul, sister, I'm like well what's wrong with this is like with a label doesn't like it and the and the producer doesn't like it a sec. Alright I'll, be your man
but my first do, jobs are among the fire, the political environment that reduce the song is a hit and and there was another song called marry me that I thought was a hit and we make a record and the hazel sister became the biggest hit. It was the biggest hit of the year that year it's old. I think it's saw like nine million copies boy and but now we've had like maybe ten hits with with train. We have another one that just came out here and so that was like. Oh okay, I get how this is, and so that's how I met sia same thing. It's like well, she had a career, she'd, never had a hit the idea of like a little indy career here she was in bad place and I didn't know if I could manage see it because she wasn't.
Yeah, he know she wasn't what I knew and she was female and I know bands, so I was like well, I dunno. If I am the right manager for you, but like I know how to get you out of the bad position urine cause. She was in like a deal she didn't like and she was miserable. She was like sick and and she she thought she was not garlic and maybe she was or wasn't. I don't know, because I wasn't friends with her then via and we just became friends, and I was like. Oh my god, like this girl is like the most talented person I've ever met as like she can do pop music, and so we started like figured and how to do pop music and once she figured it out like in she's, no joke and she's also, like, I think, she's one of the most successful pop writers in the game. Wow. Maybe it's maybe like the most successful female yeah, but one of the things that we just that just happened to her this year, which, like it, makes me like it.
It's you know like money and numbers on a chart. They're just like measures of things, but what's super great about this, one is she's the one of the only women ever that's forty years old that had a number one record on a road. It's cher Madonna and that's pretty like yeah in in a gamer. They tell you that you know you can't age women that's cool yeah. That is cool. You know the the thing about the the the company and it's like it really is. Like a team we manage like a band. I got like twenty five people that work there crush management, crush management and all of omers like everyone. There is so talented that I don't have to be a control freak bright. They do you know like Dan crutch
who rents marketing is so much better than I am at marketing year. It's a great to have that the annual an end we have that and we ve got in radio people who get this to two guys. Eric does pop radio capone de sultanate of things like animals. They just don't know they won't. They won't stop until the the kids are hit us its awesome and you ve got an office here, no amy and in europe. Can allay it's off. That's all crazy, no london, I don't find him yet. Don't tempt me, I always say like if I have a great song, my job is easy and if I have a good song, my jobs impossible here and it's really what it is. You have to keep raising the bar on yourself bear in in like great artists, no matter what kind of artists they are always in competition with themselves, for I think when you're, I think one of the things that both of us had when we were
younger, it's like we'd, be at we'd, be in competition with others here, and we be envious of other right. But when you're really good your chest rob right. Are you going to think about it anymore? Here, though, I am very surprised that happened to me You know I mean there's a couple that if you give me a minute yeah I can. I can get there pretty quickly, but it it's not guiding my disposition, yeah yeah, and when you can let go of that. It really helps the success. Well, right, but usually the only way you can let go of it you know without Intense vigilance is, if you find some success, the sad with I mean yeah, you can be consumed with that. She had and it can kill you and it can end you if you're lucky enough to get a little success. It starts to ease up after a year now, but that's not a guarantee. The truth is it's like it's great when your friends are successful, it's way better. It's like he, you know used. You brought me
a poker game. My definitely like I'd eddie brill's at any brill's ia that, during the during, like my lowest period, when you know the bells positive ways to paper, Are we write pretty much everyone and that poker game is huge down his yacht ross? It was like, but Lou and there are silverman and new cross athlete. All of em began like wildly success right and it's like long before me cited I didn't stay in the game, didn't play poker and have I always was. I was bad at it, but but the thing is and louis mortal eyes that game in a show? Yeah yeah, that's right, but it's just like it's it's like having. That is much more fun than if you know, as a memory and if I play poker with your friends and none of the us
I feel sure bugger with some comedian, the area right right now, there's a guy story. We I mean there is that you definitely got that feeling and whenever business your in that no- it was a smaller world in a way back then certainly comedy right, you know- and he didn't think about you- that that was the next generation that would become greater and then really hold onto it. Now like getting. the current day. You know along the same lines it you know you took on train you ve, cannon, wheeze or an courtney, love kind of we, Sir Courtney me yet the newest one we have. As lord. The crime super excited ass. She was in, there has been. No, that's will that's what that's one thing, the newest one, because this is the first time anyone's given me something that was currently six
full to work out. So that's how that have exciting. I, if you ask me, I shall say I was the only manager without a publicist. I just like you isn't working, he met a bunch of people and you know- and I think I was probably less what do you do for that for her the same same things, you know just like you, I look ahead at the new record. You see where she's at and yeah just trying to like with her. It's been a lot of strategy of like okay. She she was her record, was so big like how do we roll this out and we started you know what festival should we How do we position her on the bill to make the next record same level year rise? Actually, with Courtney. I know you did a record that you are very hands on with so with court. A courtney said court news is
ways and will always be her own, the allegory yeah. So with court me, my friend michael by and horner, I told you bad as producer. Yet is a genius producer here. He called me up, and he said you know: can you help Courtenay yeah and I was as like I dunno like. Let me meet her and she was in like pretty bad shape right and I am literally come very friendly because she, like you and I she grew up in the eighties in that time. Yes, like she was dancing at jumbos, clown, room and playing. You know hanging out with those bands like celebrity skin. The whole album came from celebrity skin, a band that I used to play with when I was in electric gate yeah. So we have like a real common thread.
I was super into music, pierre and, and I think she likes the that I'm successful, and so I don't need her. I'm not like a hanger on with her yeah, so ugly, its we've been doing. We've been working on a book which I think is going to be really good haha and I and I you know, I'd love to make another record with because she was at last when you you did with her nobody's daughter. Yet you you got a record, I do she wasn't in. She wasn't in retrospect year. I'm glad we made it because it was because she had been trying to make it for eight years and it just getting it finished with an accomplishment, but she wasn't in the right place near. I think she's in she's in a much better place now she's she's, awesome now, there's like good courtney is, is awesome and bad is like the worse person alive. So
now that she's good courtney she's what you signed up for now getting more up to date. By the last time we were out of touch for while yellow health crisis- oh yeah oh and I what what happened I felt like a giant was standing on my shoulder, yeah, and so I was like, I think I I had never been in the hospital. Not since I was born yeah. That's like. I think I need to go to the hospital. I go to the hospital and they're like thank you. Having a heart holy shit, so it was like a minor artery was blocks. It wasn't like a bright ripple bypass or do anything but in us so they they put. I was in pain with pressure yeah we're like crazy pressure, weird, and so they put you out and it's really an interesting experience because they give me, I think it's nitroglycerine me and you just pass out media
and you're sort of awake, but not really, and so people are yelling movie yeah. Like my dad like me, for he I'll thing around me like maybe have dying, and then I started thinking about things leg. You know like what now, my air, my own, I'm just go through all these like strange thought there. It's really like an interesting not rob. None of them were alike, lie flashing before your eyes did I do what I set out to do. None of that. It's like air miles ahead. The dog and new shall yeah. It was all that kind of stuff and it and what you realize is like So what is your life have largely before your eyes? It's like what you shouldn't what you got to do tomorrow, yeah, I was like shit. I hope I can get out of here to markets like see
doing a t v in l, a I'd like to be there that kind of stuff, yeah yeah interesting. Definitely all that, were you afraid, ah probably yeah, so so they would. They just put a stint in put a stint in yet yeah. It was there for a couple of days. I definitely didn't like being in there, and so when I got out third reading about stuff and actually give your vegetarian vegetarian, lifelong veneering, lifelong vegetarian friend I friend plays erwin place, keyboards aerosmith, so great guy. He said, oh, my brother had that he's like you, gotta become a vegan
you gotta read this guy de nourishes book, and I know you didn't cornish. This guy caldwell asses read these books and I started reading and I realise that what happens when you're a vegetarian and not a vague india? Is you overconfident compensate by eating too much dairy the automatic carbs, much sugar yeah? It's all the things that lead to heart, decease, interesting! So, yes,
the switch to being a vision has been made with great of acts took out some weight exercising their exercise added exercise, stop dairy and it's it's been great and, like I dont think everyone needs to do that right. But if you're, if, if you're unhealthy, you should do that because those at its very obvious like when I got my doctor for the check up every six months you go to the heart specialist is like you, should just be a poster boy, whatever you're doing like every all, the cholesterol and all of the problems that you had when you came in her old hon, yeah and it's it's because like when you're a vegetarian you over do those things right. Do because, because you're not eating rattling right, cheese yeah, I was younger beans. Car beer passed then be do a little pasta. I do a little, but a very little
and use the memorable renascence. I've known you, so that's great yeah she's best. Yet any like go, I'm probably amass very impressive and am very proud of you. you're relieved, You know what did I remember when I saw you and I finally kind of got it like when the the show this show started gets successful like he did it. You know what it is it's well he you know how like how I knew it was successful is, is, I would be places where you know like? I remember the the really like there's always like that moment. The apex, like the the point of inflection, were so I'm a meeting with the head of warner, uk and I'm sitting in the waiting office and his assistant that. Just like our youth, it John Daniel that knows, mark mare s language, while some sometimes I listen to its to you and you'll be talking to a band about me.
like I'm right here. Let's go now. I know you know, like you know what you know like we're saying before is like having a france. Be successful. Is awesome like So many of our you know the bans, but also like the produces some things there, all fans of you and what what's with great about the way you did it is in its very punk rock like to be a success. you can do it by any means necessary or on your own terms right, and he did it on your own terms and that's like that's punk, jerry was not by any means necessarily like hizbollah is a hail mary had once who also it is its was held there. I don't know anything about that. Any means necessary business here, I close. My thanks, document outlying areas and in semi their record Eric,
Oh right, good, there was great, is great. Isn't it great back? You can, if your hung in there that Egypt is me catching up on old buddy and also learning things about him. I've never known after knowing them for years, and we used to talk all the time, but then I started to realize back in the day, I did most of the talk that guy was at my my first wedding. Anyways. Hope you like that thanks for listening, go to wtf vod dot com for all your wtf pod needs a tour date. Upcoming and what not no guitar hotel room from entirely happy leaving tallahassee enjoy your day as best we can.
Transcript generated on 2022-09-03.