All right. Let's do this. How are you what the fucker is, what the fuck bodies, what the fuck makes what the fidel eggs what's happening? I am more bearing this is my podcast. W e f quite a show today, I gotta be honest with you. I gotta be honest with you. I went down into the american south North carolina to durham and charlotte and pretty amazing. Cathartic time great shows I'll. Tell you about that in a second. today on the show: Trae crowder a comedian who has become known as the liberal right net comedian will be on a why from now Lena dunham stopped by to talk for a few about

the new season of girls in some of the other stuff, she's doing so, durham I always like going down there I you I've been to rally a few times been charlotte a few times it's pretty, but I sold out the carolina thier there and I still don't know what to expect but boy what it was great, but the rating was that I know people there are no mac who's been on the show from merge records. When the ban super chuck to my hotel within fifty minutes, man, he came over, we rushed out to the national museum. I down. The dew campus saw an opening of work by anita chanel ebony, this beautiful bay canvasses. Canvases cower, wada themes. I just be known that he's, had a bunch of people there's a beautiful museum, beautiful space for art. Do you know a celebration of diversity in the human spirit people taken it in

nourish the soul, being around the art, had a little fewer d'oeuvres. Then we split and I went right over to the durham hotel, which is where I was staying at his wife ward, winning chef, andrea? She took a restaurant over there, the hotel and swept in took a walk round whenever the merge offices saw how the sauce It was made and then me in the mac reduce it worked over there while walked over carolina, so they used records. Right there and durham. I picked up james our reality and patty, smith's easter got a T. Shirt said I, the fellow and then later, when over to the carolina theatre, and my opening act was a girl named Blair nigh as and my buddy brian mallow, also a guy started out with back in aid start out with him, but I knew him

again a salmon cisco happen, if there too, he reached out. So I let him do a spot on the show place was packed was very. the arctic was very raw, was very real and I was very funny and relieving, and it was now to see every body- and I felt good after the show went back to the hotel- crashed woke up the next morning, ran into a people from the show just one who had just gone to a bakery and bought a lemon chess pie where the fuck do you get chest by nowhere, but the south, so they were like they loved. We love the show. Do you want a piece of this we're just driving? We gotta drive an hour out of the country where we live had a great time with the show talk for awhile had the guy in the kitchen slice me off. A piece of that pie ate that shit for breakfast plus some other pastries got jacked on sugar passed out,

got my rent, a car drove two and a half hours to charlotte travel long. It was drove straight on through stop for gas gaol taste of the year, the town, along the highway, the gas station felt, like it felt like north carolina lose good. There's good people down there now got. We're got to charlotte checked into the fancy hotel whenever ways is crazy at night. Man charlotte is a fuckin shit showed night, just like people pact out dance in part, in the streets. It's crazy. I don't know what's going on there. I do know that There's something going on there by That show is amazing. To I did the night theater and pulled in about nine hundred people were so again justino connected, wrote it out about almost two hours above nights: very primitive crowds

again, a very emotional and cathartic experience, good knights of comedy good knights of community- and it was beautiful because you know a lot of people- don't don't do with anymore, because The h be too legislation, the algae, bt, q Community is had a rough fight down there, a lot of people don't performed on there. I think it's hard to state a great deal, but I decided to go and I'm gonna kick in a good choice. Of the proceeds that I got. The fee to charities and a deep, but most of it into equality, NC, dot, org not going pull little bit into the carol, a tiger rescue which is not you know, I saw who cause but dad they need some money. Is there you know that guy keep them big cats alive, they takin tigers in leopards end.

It is strange exotic cats of people biased as pets zoos, roadside attraction is, are they they just They all these cats down there that they're keeping alive then save and very exotic large cats- and they just took in a bunch- but a little may there, but most of the money. I will be sending to equality and see dot org but like I said it was like they were great, shows man and it was great to be out. You know once I got out, it was great to be out, and I do. I thank the people who came out and saw me so that's my update all right Lena dunham was in town the last and of girls is on and she also does it. And got lenny letter dotcom eyes the culture website. irans and women the hour is her podcast. This is me minimal chat with ms dunham

pretty good spirits. Man, I'm ok, it's really do today, depending what my brain does to me. I'm too a fine all the time. Jeez posit. I dont know what to do. I'm trying to keep a positive energy pull that mike into your face. You ve got a positive energy right now, like I came in and those like, I don't know, expecting something a little you should come in a half hour earlier. Ask people there were came with you who were here at our early, how my energy, why that's amazing pay on the professional, entertainer, turn it on rats. While I feel I came in and I was like doing pretty good considering all of this. Oh, my god, the I talked to my girlfriend about it talk to my friends, but I'm always be to hear that you're dating I've been with us in a few years. I think two and a half years about two and a half years, so that he's a painter, so yours, beginning to date her when

you came into girls? Yes, you! I remember that cause. You were like I'm with the main or nose like, while the latter always was somebody. So it s. The she's an abstract, painter, she's, very good she's real deal about pain. Yes, I do then without painters. That's so great does she live here at the carriage? No, she lives down the street on our own ranch. Does that work better for you? Yes, gray. Yet there is no risk of destroying it. Just from claustrophobia, I love it. Don't you find that if you can manage joy, she she got her own house says a studio so we spend a lot of time together, but there is at ability not to be far up each other's asses that that that causes problems, yeah jack and I lived for a while in a studio apartment, and it wasn't the best thing that our relationship and then once we and we, once we had more space for our problems went away that or do they tyler we actually we have different problems, but the problems of the studio apartment went away. What now tell me about painters

Now I'm starting to find that your dad's, a painter, my dad's, a painter yeah, and she likes his work and she yeah he's real guy real painter guy he's a real painter. Guy he's what's been referred to by people as a painter's painter, which is that a lot of painters love his work. That's always like that. One that that painter's, painter or comics comic that always comes a little a little bitter sweetness. I know because you're a little bit like well, why can't? I just be the world's painter, but what it usually comes with sort of well I'd like to be selling like the painter who thinks some of the painter's painter yeah exactly, but it's interesting whenever I meet a painter you're, always like your dad had such an influence on me really, his work is so important to me. Cause you know. Also painting is not just straight up painting we have so many and now with the idea, wrote that just being a straight, a painter goes into a studio with brushes and paint is becoming increasingly rare. People like I work and mix media, digital print, and then they re all things on it and, like my dad,

in everyday any paints and that's what he does the way they think like. I dunno, if it's common, but they sort of have their own time zone, don't they like they're, very sort of sensitive kind of like poetic people that you I stay in that groove, where you just you know, thinking about a canvas or working with a canvas infringing. Can I just feel like she exists in this? A sort of hyper real, very intuitive reality. What's so funny, I com dad it's. I feel exactly what you're saying and he works. Usually he starts working relic, six, a m and who work from like six to eleven some time in the afternoon then go back in and work until dinner. Maybe he'll go back in a little bit after dinner. Call me out in the studio which I do he has a barn- that's outside his house, where he paints, and I call him in the studio and he'll like yahoo answers. The same way like you sleepy hollow all, as if he's like increased We surprised that it's me even only two of us have his phone number and then he's always like I can feel the clock taking on

commerce, asia, and because he has to get back to what he's doing, but sometimes they make for music I gotta go, I'm right in the middle of something and I'm like yeah you've got to go you're filling in a bird or literally I'm like. I want to make fun of him because I'm like there's nobody there with you, it's actually not urgent. The only urgency is that, like you, I have decided that this is the ten minutes in which you're going to fill in this borough, where they they're on a roll or they're in it. You know I mean it's that thing about being in it, the like always in it, which makes me crazy, because he just goes in there and drops in it. The thing that's cool about being a painter is also even on it: that you're not inspired. There's busy work for you to do so. It's like, if he's not feeling like he's creating new things, he's feeling in you know an entire the idea of space with purple pain. I he's done the you know, he's u preparing to do. The other were exactly that. It's interesting like my mama's of tiger, for I feel maker and she's totally different in her work. Super social and she's like more like me, she's I serve like tortured and lloyd at somebody and figure out how to get something done, and my dad's processes, like so sir,

a terry and really the only time that he gets seems to have frustrating interactions of other peoples when a time till I hang a show and then he's got to explain the ideal. It's been his head, other people right as with lots of tiny diagrams yeah, of course, Scully right, everything's gonna be right. It's gotta be sitting on the wall just perfect time going with my dad made out to be a painting show in oslo, and so we go I'm going next week to oslo, with my dad for five days, and I haven't travelled with him like that, you ve been to ozma. I have been to also weird fact I feel we can bring about my dad's a really AMOS in norway is famous in norway, guy yeah, it's like, he's big in norway like he like knows the queen of norway. I don't know how it happened at one time I asked in Norwegian I was like: why are you guys so into them that he was they were like? We are have a very dark. We have a very dark aesthetic their fathers work speaks to the anger. In darkness of norway, wow movements,

wait, because painters need patrons if they're, not just in a rich people who may not get the painting it's nice to have the support the aesthetic support of an entire sensibility. That's another country. He like as a whole life in norway, and so I haven't gotten to travel with my dad and I used to travel alone together a lot and do weird things like take the overnight train to canada and, like we like the same kinds of things, and I haven't gotten to travel with my dad since they she the show, started, it's been years years. A I was, like my dad, like kind of said, like hey, you want to come to Norway and he was so shocked that I was like yes, I do so we're going to spend five days together. Norway- and I can't wait because I haven't watched him- hang a show. Since. I was a little girl, so I'm lake excited you just hang around the gallery and watch him do as things now. I travel yeah, those my whole life It was just like sitting in the gallery, my dad and like a bunch of hot guys, measured things and I like played and a colouring book and now I'm mesa going to do the same thing only I'll be thirty. No cowering book. Probably now I'm my dad's really like my dad

like a real. I don't know how to act when I watch that movie captain fantastic the morton later you just so great we're like there's the dad who sort of like trying to raise his children off the reservation, like my dad's, not that, but is a little like trying to constantly impressive me that everything that the universe says it's important, isn't in every you know. So, basically, the last big concept, big concepts of basing the last like six years. Life, unlike becoming a celebrity in all of that is like peace, proud of me as a creative person. But all of that revolting to him and like a kind of a false, narrative hans, been created by a broken culture. Signals excited for me, tenant step. Can hang out and norway are you excited to step away from the false narrative created by a broken culture, silver special. I was like king up down when that happens happening daily. Now I now We gave every ten minutes there

falls inherited, are created by a broken culture. Yeah. If you wanna get de peace, the person to get deep with I mean held basically tell you that, like donald trump as a hologram, o neill supporter I mean he doesn't believe he's an actual hologram, but he'll explained the donald trump is like a kind of your head for, like the endless pain of a society, that's been feeding upon itself. I mean my dad's just now he's very philosophical work. You should have brought him. More. I had him on my ipod cast on my women of the hour upon casta. We talked for a long time that his relationship to psychedelic drugs and I found him to be the best guest, because said, really insane things in a totally monotone voice we'd be like yeah when I dropped. You know this when I took a massive dose of acid and locked myself into a room for five days. I did learn a lot about triangles and you're like, but he's saying, like he's an economist, and so it's a super. It's like

and, like you, don't know how funny you are you're, the funniest he he was honest research yeah I mean, and I had to convince him. I was like he was like you've podcast and was like yeah. It's like on the charts like like people, listen do people listen to it and he was like, oh, like he just had no idea a podcast, no idea that really there would be any re why we would have a conversation and he was like I dunno. Why you'd want to talk to me but sure, and he came into the city, see that they have their there in their own place. Yet that is very painfully here. It is right yeah, so pack has gone with a woman of the hour when one of the things you so much, I was you know I really. What about you- and I was doing it because interviews- give interim in people in a thoughtful and easy going way, is a challenge, and I thought about how you're one of the great, and so I had a lot of a great time doing it. I just did the second measure learning curve. Yes, my four

interviews were like I have prepared nine questions. All of them have the word her gemini in them and you I was like no, I want to be cool like mark marron, but it also has a podcast about like modern feminism and women's issues, so different we're hitting a different audience yeah. I I keep mine pretty broad. This is. My only friend makes one of the podcast he's like on today's episode will interview the first woman to play a very specific kind of flu like he's like it's just so like. Like. I turn like a weird and pr lady- and he thinks it's like- I was a kid- you listened to pious he's like sure yeah, it's the one where a woman did a thing right, secret, I think my part is about me. Well, I've known that for a long time, your monologues are even there's an episode where I'm like, I'm not that interested in hearing what that person has to say, although, admittedly, you always surprised me and I step alyzia surprised, I might say that persons yeah, but

always listen to your really self flagellate mila. Thank you. I think you're a minority, but I appreciate that god is my paranoia, but how is jack antenna? How is he keys great? He said busy and good and he's make easy producing big records as things he is. So he's right now he's producing the lord new lord album, which comes out soon and then he works. I feel like I'm not at all Did you say the other three, but the argue on three big albums and then he's the number and tongue on itunes right now, the railroad and produce the firm, fifty shades darker, the film it, sir called I don't wanna live, will Zane malloch and taylor swift? Oh, he did That says: yeah no jackson, piece of his armies big time he is I went with him do every day do we've toured with an old band to his recently, or did I mind making that up now he reunited with his like his like bikes or train steel train, his early twenties, but hippie band. They are be banned. Yeah yeah, he loves you, he loved being on the show. What we talked

the happy music for why that was a good interview. It was a jacket, the same, because I always say that he's like a musician who has the soul of a comedy writer right, like the tortured soul of a comedy writer but just happens to be making poppies gorgeous. thought it was. I thought that whole element of him. You are seeking solace in refuge in that music, as it was comforting in a dark time and then realizing that it was not his music necessarily yeah. No he's had it's interesting because he's had a a lot of different phases and I don't want to speak for him, but I will as his partner of half a decade. I guess I can say this, which is that I feel like he's, had a lot of phases of liquid. My music any ultimately rise, like he's a pot musician, but my likes you extra pop he likes to pop like he brings, apps, and power and emotion to pop and pop is like the language of love and it's the language connection, and it's like the language of our youth, and so it has validity and its also the language of the music business. It's also the link

money yeah I want to stop working at some point so that we can already literally all the time. I like I'm very you re retire? Pull out. I don't know I'm ready to Britain and pull out, but I have lots of projects that aren't that I to do that. Aren't like come pull out of the false narrative created by broken culture. I mean literally my dad's lake. What am I doubt it I think it's time for you to disappear for awhile yeah and I was like cool yeah that sounds cool yeah. I think about it. A lot yeah I teared up thinking about it. I know it's really emotional, but a lot of the projects I have. coming up, aren't like big, I mean we I'm workin. Let us have the jenny that were thrilled about, but there's a lot of stuff. Want to do that, I wouldn't describe as like big hearted, big hot money. projects that nobody wants myself what's to any letter dot com while Lenny letter dot com is genuine. My twice weekly feminist newsletter economy.

conor, whose my partner and my friend in your your end producer and partner partner, yeah we're create like it's beyond like. I know a lot of people like I have a producing partner but she's my creative partner and my in many ways my life partner. In many ways I have jack and I have jenny and that's my those are my people. It's good to have a couple I am giving reasons it is. Is theirs work it's good to have one. You don't have sex with you I've cyber similar relationship with my produce from business partner than I have my my girlfriend. I get there it's parental, but I think that you and janney- well, that's not true me and brendan are pretty tight, but I know, is only so much of my boss, that will indulge sometimes doesn't indulge my bullshit jenny's. Very much just like like if I'm down, some kind of spiral shall straight up, stop texting me back in a goodly in it to send the signal like I do not feel it can be helpful here and like please make contact when this is concluded when a supportive way,

Her nice way saying of its inner nice way, saying it's not all about you, yes, which, by the way, is like one of them like I feel a lot like when I start in girls, I was like a fair all in I wish. I knew Do this certain thing which was right, but I was very fair all and that I didn't have a lot of normal female and jab yeah. I was extremely attached to my parents. I still lived with them. I didn't really have normal adult interactions. I'd never had like a real job besides like working part time and baby clothes. Sales like it wasn't an jenny, really taught me how to be a grown up like she was one it was like when you're upset, you can't just walk out of the room and like home, your head in the bathroom for forty five minutes and then return like everything's roma. Like you sit there like, she was the one who kind of taught me how to interact as a business, sin as a friend here as a partner to a boyfriend, which is something I didn't ever really think I would be like there's so much. I mean Jenny

I have to be a grown up shut me to be a grown up. What is in fact, job and she's, two kids of her own. So no one told her he had to do it, but she did it and I'm very grateful and it seems like the the advice you got from your dad is abstract at times or maybe not so practical. While my dad's thing it does Very true and my dad's thing is very much like his vibes very like fuck. It like you, you're, not feeling. Not have a good day in the writers room move to tibet, like its aware that, for the day yeah like in arriving at very much like we don't have to live within this, like he's always trying to figure out how to like game this, I mean he's not off the grid, but he's figure out a great way to like make his life extremely really work for handing over your mom. Would you learn from our my this really interesting. My mama's, like an artist which is also very shrewd business person and she's extremely self possessed and she doesn't take any bullshit

So that's a role model, yeah, she's, a role model barometer, Romano, we're like we're really good friends So what is one letter? So I mean letter is something that journey and I created because we wanted to basically have a platform not only for women to engage with each other and on the issue. Of the day on feminist issues, but also a place to sort of elevate, other women's voices. The way that our voices have been elevated by having the platform of the ship. so in everything from personal essays to political commentary. to letting you know how you can contact your local rap too, like a piece about nail care like we're, really kind of running the gamut of things that are interesting to women, because women contain to this end. There is no one size fits all and we wanted to create a snark free

sort of emotionally pure place for women to hopefully be comforted in this crazy time in history, so we put it out twice a week. I'm super proud of it. I love and I'm proud of it not cause. I'm you know cause it's like some shining example of my creative work and proud of it, because I feel it are editor in chief just grows in Jenin. I have been able to create a space where women feel really really safe to express themselves and that's all I ever wanted, because I haven't always felt safe expressing myself and people are coming and going yeah doing. We have like we have our lebanese like there's, there's a nice, strong pocket of devoted ladys and some men who really read it. really considerate and really respond to it, and it's one of the first. they really understood because with girls, so much of the conversation around it got lost in, like you know, when you wish, h, b, o people who don't get it and don't

What you're trying to do are still gonna watch it and still gonna have something to say, ran like lenny is more of the kind of thing or its audience found it, and so everybody whose engaged is engaged because it's their thing and so a lot of the like crazy noise that existed around the show that you had to parse through just to kind of connect to people or stand you here is not there with Lenny, because the people who are reading it with the people who really want to be reading it needs more very, like gum, I got the shy. Imagine that if you sit down and look at the engagement of the feedback of that that its it must be satisfying in a different way, completely insane but the pie catholic, those are treated like you're doing a service, you think you're doing service and I dont an oar and also that they are doing service for years. Europe, I mean: do you feel this way about people who watched the show like well How did I fight and listened to your show like? How did I find that and watch your show? How did I find this tribe of people whose,

the world how I do and connect in writing. I wonder if there they feel like the tribe. I definitely get a lot of emails from people who felt like they were alone or or that they were inspired to get sober or help some with their fear, their darkness or whatever. I, I don't always get the sense that they necessarily feel like there's there's a lot of them, but but, but I think, I do feel like while easterners you yeah I would think, whoever I'm talking to that's how I feel with Lenny. I feel like we have these women who kind of didn't have a place to see themselves reflected back and run also we're trying really really hard both on the pod cast and all money to reflect clearly tat like theirs one kind of woman, there's. No one kind of feminist that, like being female right now, is extremely multi faceted And that, like we want to create connections within that now. Ok, so This is the last of girls gap. We last ten dime we're done

oh my god. What was it like after you shot the final? You are such a special part of girls. By the way you really like came, and you really played a character. You really turned it out to epps you apps city council, and you were great, and I love you when you showed up at the party just to say like fuck, you thousands, the favorite things we've ever shot when he was like it was very big of you to show up at one race as like is very big of you to show up at my party and you're like fuck you Did you see? Everybody agrees that the move to khitai I get here somewhere yea. I think it was catana empty one percent charm. Yet- and I did my fate- come over- Color was that your idea come over here. I wonder what different way what shape it all off that was so yeah. You worked very like like nasa insurance salesman, yeah good, I'm glad I pulled it off. I was I was a honor to do it. It was fun. It was an honor to have you. I remember we were like. I think it was really the first time I'd tried to do something that wasn't me. You were

hazing and I remember we were sitting around trying to figure out who to cast, and jenny was like to think marc marron would ever do this and I was like it's worth a shot. and then there you were on a plane coming to do it and it's a real honor. I think about everyone who is on girls and I kind of like look at the yearbook of it in my brain and I can't believe how many special people came through. And you're one of that, like I can't believe so. Many people like came to play. I like to work in people gonna, wake to be funny and yeah yeah a lot of great people on there got really lucky. What was the last? Don't like what was that last day? Was there a lot of crying and crying so much crying and just like feeling like it was interesting. My grandma at the summer right in the middle of shooting- and I took a couple of days off to be with my family next to her. While she was dying, which was, I wasn't in the room when she died, but I was sort of there for all the lead up. We were then told by the hospice worker that we were all too noisy and aggressive, and we needed to leave her alone because we were like basely being like too noisy for her to die.

Her die in peace lot, six, jewish women. What do you expect are all in there like, like I'm like braiding, my cousin's hair and like shrieking, about something with my boyfriend and like leary, the hospice worker was like: how can you expect her to die under these circumstances, so we went out and hung out in the hall, but the word and she passed away? Ninety six years old, ninety six dorothy seven's good work, the young lady wow, she really is good. She really did it almost ninety seven, but she was born on leap year. So she always liked to say like no, I'm thirty, two or whatever, like dividing it by three, but she was real. She was a real flirt to good at the first girls premiere. She walked onto the red carpet like she was like wearing like a little one draft. So at this point you must have been ninety and she walks right up to judd like I hear you from the island and as I can if flirting with John appetite grandma I you from the island and the last words. She said to anybody were to me here and it's because I told her ally which, as I said, the jacket proposed to me, which he hadn't.

I just have a diamond ring. Jack got me. It was like grandma jack and I are going to get married and she smiled- and I was like look at the ring. He got me and she was like I like it, and then she just like never said it. again and my family still doesn't believe she said to me, but I didn't hallucinate it right. That's how rouser, jewish grandmother by showing them a large diamond review by ridge jail. That's how you do it so when when you were doing sitting how due to end saying I mean the first three episodes are weird because, like genocide, it sort of black mirror like none of the first three episodes really have anything to do with what other more why'd you do that with it. Just felt like we had stories to tell that weren't necessary. The episode act, but not a word like sort of these self contained lessons for our characters and if we were going to be experimental now when we are going and when are we going to do for you, they were primarily because it was a necessary like this is the last season. This is these. Are Central episode is like these are things that

the last time we're going to get to do this yeah? If we want to explore this stuff- and it was like these- are the themes that I think that we still haven't hit and that we feel together, we still haven't, hit and like this is the way that we want to tell the story, and then we kind of a little more pleiade in the middle and then the last two episodes. We really tried to do something that judge any, and I really tried to do sing. That was a little bit different than like a traditional season, finale yeah and worked out. I think so, but you know you: never people will tell you if they think it worked out or not it's a little bit expect. I mean not experimental like it's not like I'm add darren film. It's not like they painted on like no voodoo dancer. No, but it's, but it's just a different way of wrapping up a worry and it just felt we'd known for long time how we wanted to end the story, but not the sort of with known what we wanted to do, semantically, but not how we wanted to approach it creatively, and it was really alan and weird and sad, and now that were finishing, the press for girls.

When the kind of like grief and identity law some stuff is all really hitting me right. Oh yeah, Definitely it's like it when really think about how much of your life is taken up by a project like that that long a time it leaves a big hole, I started working on the pilot when he three I was living with my parents, I was my life was ince completely different, I mean to say my life is in different places in an impossible on statement and then my entire day, life identity was completely wrapped up in this project like and then now it's done a night there's a little part of me that feel like sort of like trapped myself emotionally and amber, and I'm having to face a lot of things that I don't care. I said to genuine like I'm finding out about myself and I don't like it we I mean you had to like grow up in public in a way sort of kind of like.

embracing it, but also constantly defending it and you're being controversial for that long, for whatever reasons came at you but you did have to sort of do it all publicly so now the idea of silence in being thoughtful and in working at a different pace. I guess in a figure out you, whether you really did grow up or not, I now because it it's shocking. What happens when you're alone with your own brain, and I was never alone with my own braun for the entire time I was working on the show. I don't have great success with it, I'm much better. If I'm talking to it's tough, I love to be by myself. I love to read, like I find the greatest luxury to just be like curled up reading and writing and thinking. But I always doing it. Knowing that I was returning to this incredibly immersive work. Environment analyses the next. I mean I'm working on a book that, out in january and nuts and its fiction, and that's a slope super private process. It gives you plenty of time. to figure out what you haven't handled and all that

that I wasn't working on girls. I was throwing myself into causes that were important to me, which again, like I don't regret any of it, but I didn't I theirs is. I grew a lot and there's ways I grew not at all, and now I am finding out what those are and it's not ideal. What's your writing a book. Because guys, like you, know you it's funny, writing as much as I hated the eba, you getting in it. The ear of things are revealed to you about you that you, you didn't have a in context or a sense of completely, and there is also something about writing fiction that allows I mean once your public figure like there's, you can't ever sort of published something you can't write with bandon about your own life. Again, that's why I like to stay a marginal public figure. You know sort of slightly under the radar you're not marginal to me. Oh! Thank you. It's always good, seeing you

willie he s, and I am glad that you ended there. The show and did all show on your terms and that you are happy with the way when it means a lot, and I want you to know that something that was very comforting to me throughout the show. Just like all yours theirs was lit, was hearing your interviews and hearing how many other creative people felt. Lonely scared, tortured, frustrated. You brought that out, such a clear and profound way, and I actually think some of your interviews were probably the fuel that allowed me to make it through this entire experience. Glad to help out- and I want We want to know that his house looks just a shitty, as it always has rule more Our aim is not changed. Mark marin cause it smells weird in here and it does even weirder. Your house smells like cats did ok. What do you know? This has been good, he hated. It is time for you to go to your next day. Junket! Stop I'm not even going I'm gonna gynecologist,

Ok, we'll make sure you do that on the pod cast. Ok, great, thank I've already done it on my part, gas, toby, wales. I violin, I recorded myself. Getting of actual. for sound and a morphine drip Did you ramble on the morphine dream? I was like guys. It feel like there's balloons in my head like I've, I was like I said to my dolls, nervous, I really like morphine and he was like join the club loose like no one doesn't like morphine, no one's like it's not for me, you're dead, with work to go advise the love. You mark love, you too, well that was nice to see her. That was good now this next year. that I talk to trade Crowder. I seen em about him. I got

book in the mail that I saw him talk to build more for a second. But I, like the angle, you know I mean he's been doing comedy a little bit. I think six or seven years buddies. You know ye seems there be an anomaly at least publicly and you know he's he's claiming Do you know his book he's the color of the liberal redneck manifesto dragging Dixie out of the dark I can get that wherever you get books he's on tour right now check out his tour dates at the well read, comedy calm, that's well, read: are ye d comedy dot com? So this is me talking to crowded, how'd, you thirty, that we thought so you can grew up with their with the truckers, and like you, they party here childhood yeah,

probably around like like high school early high school age is when I first found about a new start listening to him, and I am sure I think not mistaken. They were like they were the first band that I replied for my dad that he like D, if I had you grant tiresome new guys, first band of mine, that brought to him and that he actually liked right That's what I was like These guys must be super legit, learn or whatever, and I started dive and further into it, and I just I don't know it really struck a chord may, because I was like a man you can be. You can be like firstly, southern anne, but not stare stereotypical ways you gonna make. You re like programme, ever intellectual, whatever tried what you're doing you're while still being explicitly southern because there's an hut? There really is a lot of that very well in pop culture, and that was one of the first things at all Ah especially, you know from the like new yesterday. I like that, and it just really

resonant ride like like a cool, culturally regressive, southern stuff right as others, never even some pretty big literature, from the south without a doubt yeah. This seems like that. Never I don't know it's like that's kept completely separate sure and the rest of it. You know domain my damn catch on with the working people arrive, yeah as far as the bureau's perception of the south. It doesn't seem like that really seems to make a difference that there is one that sure that it was unnecessary, the greatest view of them, like some of the falconer deriving finery, o connor yeah yeah. Now is yeah. I mean you know four years I I I was guilty of stereotyping, the south. I think we're just ease. to do because you know there were certainly people. I fear into that. Rio type when it became sort of pressure as a he asked J. A kind of you know I

of its racist, but definitely because made a negative care the resolution that was very easy to do like it was almost like as comics almost any stupid voice was a southern yeah. sure always if you are going to do. If a committee was going to do a bit about somebody being an idiot, he I would immediately launch enters the as yet unknown sale. Not too may vienna lack knowledge is the aid need still makes you laugh right, but when I start travelling there outside of my own nervousness, yeah. I remember going there early on and it was a We still kind of well, I dunno. If it was scary by may assumptions you know like back in the nineties, early nineties, I went down to raleigh or somewhere, which isn't even you know the deep south is it really know, but but you know, as I die travel there, tennessee and and even you, your parts of Florida drove cross country of the like. You have nothing but damn good stories, indeed

in people that I've met there and its beautiful country by it there still is the reality that dumb as a en Bloc right it still represents something. I may nets currently true and the thing is I've. Never at least I feel like I've never tried to like deny that or say that, like that doesn't exist, I kind of the south is that right. Is it real like that? He has this those people real they're out there, a mile things you always been, but they don't for us all. They dont represent the entire region as a whole or whatever you want. What I mean my area. When I say we I mean liberals progresses whatever are in the minority down there without a doubt, but I still still a sizeable amount of people just in terms of people. You know, even if it's the authority and attire and a lot of places with thirty or forty percent of the people there I mean you know that yeah billions of southerners sure who are who are that right. We are still the minority without a doubt I mean. So. Where did you grow up I grew up in a tiny little.

called celina tennessee words at near so knoxville on the east. state nationals in the middle almost directly between knox. national and then forty miles up on the kentucky in the middle of that we had no traffic lights in my hometown, no walmarts, no mcdonalds, nothing. I mean it's rural, really, very, very we're just a post office and a store there was two grocery stores post office. There is a dollar store, three liquor store when I kiss you know, and but now we had a dairy queen. How big is your family well, so my mom saw the family is actually pretty bad clear, mom, mom a cat, my grandma clear she had eight brothers and sisters, So there is a lot of them, but a lot of them left him with north. We before I was born here for work or whatever korea out only see them for reunions stuff, but then, I kind of-

I am only I've only kept in touch really with a cup with a few of them honestly have your mother's mother's. Some of my mom's is just my mom's side of the family, second cousins and whatnot yeah, first and second cut. So my mom only had one sister, my aunt yeah she passed away. She had two signs. My first cousins, one of them passed away her husband, passed away. like an asshole he obeyed, not a lot of that. My family are really yeah mom, my mom, in fact, as an addict I mean like in recovery now, but you know the deal you know she's, always an addict or opiates. The pill belize, yeah. I got caught up in it, big! and your cousin to hear me out dated twenty fifteen really recently on oxy or heroin oxides. Really here. And, as so so and in terms of the extended family does not keep in touch because

of ideological reasons are just just because are out in the world, and you I mean I don't even in touch their honestly. Not I don't know how far this is or near whatever, but so my mom was an attic and she was gonna end A jail cell has grown ups alike. We have a relationship now it's ok whatever but like You know she wasn't around a lot, but for a long but when I was growing up mia and my only connection to that side of my family was her mamma grandma and she passed away of just old age, bad here, twenty ten year and after that I just cannot and he always he was like the last link to that side of the family. You know what I mean sure I don't really have any against most of em, but I just don't ryan dont really keeping an end by your mom's doing better. Yes, he's doing better. Anything like you know I came to realize. I got older, like she has a lot of attics. Do she has genuine mental health, proud right, and I mean She still deals with that, but in terms like,

dick germany as she's clean and has been clean. You know for a good little a few you we never had any problems maiden. No, not with that. I live and I don't think of many my diary re correctly, I don't care about no, not ever really drifted into that because of the weddings. All the shit I've seen could go either way and I I'd talked to people like that. All the time like either you're going to your be that or you can never be the right, yeah I, but I made a get. You know I you know I like to drink. I've been a beer drinker of the grocery, where your dad, primarily my dad raised me me, and my sister have one sibling, a younger sister and my dad pretty much raised us and he passed away of pancreatic cancer in twenty thirty oh my god, he was sorry buddy as our psyche, he was an awesome dude. He loved us a whole lot, but he didn't really. We ate waiting,

much you remain like we were. Superpower Lima went. Where was he did what he did when I was a kid he actually owned and operated a video story, member those things under relics of a bygone era. Nodded a chain stores were like a yoke routers video allowing he had his own business and that did ok there You know when I was younger here just like, but then in my and solana right for you years and years. The center, the towns economy was this big clothing factory. ash gospel, gosh sure that overall, over I made overalls near, and and the nineties after NAFTA that left and it utterly decimated the towns like it still to this day, it's in bad shape, and I had a ripple effect, my dad's business and everything. But honestly it probably wouldn't be the matter because he actually got sick shortly after that, he he got hepsey young out to sea and that sort of knocked him out

does back down. No out I've heard like now view georgia usually do for a main. We didn't really talk about it, and I know when I was growing up he was. I know it wasn't a huge issue cause here as always there and there. I don't you know, even if it wasn't you don't I'm saying But now back in the day I mean one whom a mom were younger, whatever Amelia he arose, and so I guess nowadays, apparently hepsey there that they are not doing it cost a bit right, knock it out. Even but back then, in this light and he's or whatever like he was on interfere. Interference everyday level, you I mean it. I thought demur. and you know, and so he couldn't work sort of knocked him out of that, but by the end, but then, like I said, I mean the business honestly was of and anyway so it was about to get rough for us, no matter what basically- and you are how old I am in a round- eleven year like that, so woody in the town like for europe,

There are twelve when Oshkosh closed. No, I was about that was. I was like nine ten sunlight and I'm saying people like hailed out unanimity, a couple years know items I am trying to make it work before it really like visa, disarm, say in the business was starting to decline. I'm anyway and in his health, did too in the nose so that with that? Like really is sort of the yoke of funding? an example of exactly what level the whole area right You know that all these economic issues that are people so angry about now and what was really, I think, made people vulnerable to the to the opium? epidemic and everything else so, but how did you,

get out of there. You went to high school there and everything yeah and you play ball or anything. I played football, but I mean I wasn't much of a football player. I mean I was okay, but it was one a ball and I was like a lineman right. I'm six foot tall like I wasn't going to go to college, play offensive line and automate yeah. So I mean but always made always made really good grades, o from very early on my dad and his dad maternal grandfather. They like it was always you know: you're gonna go to college and you're gonna. U know! Oh yeah, to be a lawyer, a doctor, some big like that. May I even back then I would beg my thing. I'd rather be and made him pinheiro alien might yet emma. So am I upon lot of like teachers of people. When I heard that they be like what no no yoda medical school wrongly you here, but my day He was always like earlier because shit, you know, or whatever has just how he was so I still went to college. Just my thinking was by go to college.

I don't want to do the whole starving artist thing. I don't want to wait, tables and stuff like that cause I've been, you know, I've had enough of being broke as hell yeah, so I'm gonna go to legitimate git, a I a degree that lets me just get. Any kind of job, can actually make money. While I try it'd- be a writer or comedian or whatever. Then yeah. That's what I was thinking snouts. What I did when you were a kid, though, like like as you got into high school in this area, because our mean look you're, the liberal redneck manifesto Are you you are in your agenda, driving driven comedian and it's a good angle, point. You been doing comedy little while, but I mean what started to yeah sort of informed enemy. Were you like when you were in high school after the factory closed? Could you see you know your classmates and everybody drifting? You know into something that was different. Then you remember when you were a kid I mean ad. Definitely was aware of, like I gotta get the hell out

I hear you know what I mean, because if I don't it's not going to be good cause, I see plenty of people that down and I knew that that was important. A lot of that stuff, though I didn't, I didn't again of a good perspective on the economic lay ironies Riah we had actually until later, because the thing is because, the way that it was their whatever every by the most everybody was in the same boat in large part in re, like my frame of reference, was just so fucked up that way. The right when you say the economic realities coming from a poverty stricken area, just a lot of shit. I didn't understand until wider and like looking back on a goddamn out, I was palmer what I mean like abject poverty and at the time is just may in alma buddies rely right anyway, do we're zero point where you something changed your heart or change your mind. Were you surrounded by by a you, know, hopelessness? What was the the social tone when you were in high school? I mean

Actually I tell people often and again this was something that I didn't realize until looking back, I used to be even more defensive about the south. Back when I was younger, I'd be like it's not that It is not like that or whatever, but I come too that later it was just that my calm down. Oddly enough, just wasn't as bad in those like stereo too hateful ways or whatever he shocked up to his. We actually does actually black, Do they hire me? I like in a lot of towns of that side like very rural parts of south, they dont really high, that a arms- and so that's where you get like my wife's hometown there, no black people oh yeah, and so I think that made a big difference as far as that think that, as far as all that, because I didn't really see our stores of people I towns, like a noose and like a black kids lot back the only black kids locker around like that. Now always like really liked never imagined that happening when was growing rise. I mean shit, they map ma buddies biogas agro with

whip, your ass round. The fact tat you might not otherwise by their out but also was well, is integrated and there is a black community, india that gave you a different perspective. you didn't feel at a hate- are a in in your world, now I dealt where I had to. I would get very defensive about my uncle my dad's brother. He gay, and I knew that. Did he live down there? No, not at the time does now because of my grandma, his mom yeah she's. I mean her husband. My grandpa died her other son, my dad died, so my uncle's sticking around there like taken care of by so he got out. He whammy. He went to Asheville awry Israel for most of his adult life- oh yeah yeah, but it might be nine knew that he was gay or whatever you know remains. I would just add it get like physically picked on. I was always kind the bigger kid yeah, but like people just make cracks and shit all the time about him being you know, fag or whatever. That kind of I mean yeah, that kind of shit, and so that, I have always been very defensive and very passionate about. Like you know, gay rights

things like your ass from a very early in that's also wide quit. Fucking would Jesus the idea that it yeah we brought up pretty heavy knots, not not compare to most people there mom saw the family and artists by some that you know they allotted them, went to church and what and so my sister would just go to discuss what you do, but then the visas is part of it yeah. But then, when I found out that market it's gay. When I was like nine, that's also when I found out what gay even was right when I found out monica, was gay, started noticing shit that otherwise have been flying over my head about. You know them abominations in that kind of shit you you know, like the sort of rhetoric that southern by MR known, for near guards to royal homosexuals. I started. I was like how women hold on what the fuck, who you know, you don't even know, mark or mayan, like Diana editor sure, and so I was like of I fuck at you know what I mean and not when I told my dad I was like. I don't think I want to go anymore. He was just like well

I I turned to scattered backup. You know what I mean like, because he didn't go either, probably because his brother was gay, I guess, but so you not. I left pretty early, which I think also. I am always your grandmother's tolerance of it all. My goes mom year, his mom. She, which great yeah and still is she was away. You know, what's that mothers. Love thing remain: she loves the shit out of him and, like day him and his partner mike the years and years they always I saw them together all the time like they always were their christmas in thanksgiving. Whatever else might migrant the deal, grandpa was like you know we just didn't really. talk about it, I mean he knew what was going on and they are still welcome there and hugged his son and all that stuff tolerance, yeah tolerance, yeah, exactly and alright, see you get out. Where do you go to college tennessee tech university? Where is that and it's

cook veiled by sustaining about earlier? So not that far aware. Actually, I'm I went to u t university see at first and neck right literally ripe. As I was in the process of moving down there, my grandpa My dad's dad, though just talk about the past way, might have heart attack, and that was hit me real hard cause. He was like the sort of the authoritarian figure, Mariah Maria, and so I can im back home with the intent of just starting a semester, late just go into uti in the spring yeah. My guidance counselor talked me into going to tech instead cause. She was afraid that, like so many other kids from there, I just would never go back right. She was like she can go here, you'd be close to home and then you can transfer to uti later. So that was the plan, but I ended up liking it I just stayed in coupeville, yeah, yeah and where'd, you get the degree in I. They have a thing called the plus the program where you can major in whatever and take business courses and then get an m b a if you go to business school after that, oh yeah, that's what I did so I got.

mba my undergrad as in psychology really just as I was interested in it I knew I was doing the nba thing here and I know you new shit with batteries in psychology in our. I am aware of that right. It didn't matter then be. I was what mattered, and so I was just interested in sight. So, let's willoughby What did you did you learn anything from psych? How many I've forgotten it all? You know what I mean like I feel like I was. I knew shit about it at the time, but I've you know it's mostly gone now so in so then he went to graduate school where you want to business school year. It was for some sisters, oh yeah, that I did all that back to back to back so then way and then wait and then what will you set up to do so? That was that was two thousand and nine. Like the height of the recession, I was working at a bar for like five months afterwards, I was like Jesus. What did I do that fucked up? You know, but then I just the first job I was able to find was with the us department of energy in oak ridge.

hennessy. You are you familiar with accurate, the manhattan project earlier that manhattan project was split between? bridge, tennessee and los alamos pneumatic, that's where I grew up and down and so what where they enrich the plutonium that was then shipped in mexico and put in the bombs or what area will that was the pre car, into the a and they just never left they're still there. They still have a lab. The o are in ale oak ridge, national laboratory. What twelve nuclear weapons complex there. So there's a particle accelerator there, much wild shit, high security situation very much so still in use. Yeah, oh yeah yeah building a big multi billion dollar brand new nuclear facility out there right now for energy or for defence, defendants, aurelia and watch. What was your job? There was a contracting officer. So you have the federal german, then really do anything they just contracted out to private industry. I

handled the negotiated and awarded in mike administered federal contracts to us, contracting companies do the stuff YAP. I was lower level levels like ours. Mostly, like you know, the contractors it like mow, the grass or you know, mop the floors or whatever and yeah yeah. That that kind of thing, that's what I did mow national security clearance. Now I'm at well, I had a I had a q clearance, which is like a top secret equivalent or whatever cause. I just I had to buy me. I never. I did see some shit. That ethnically was like nuclear sacred, but I and I didn't understand, was all in, like I'd, had to be a nuclear engineer to even know what the fuck they were talking to like walking into a seen a chalkboard or something right that kind of stuff where they talk about it in the meeting been there for business reasons, but all that stuff, if it was like classified whatever, but I mean it and get it out of. Even if you try, because I don't know it's fuck man anyway, rights are what we were very experiencing in terms of.

here the realities of government or out of that shift, your brain it all did you did you feel like you're, doing working for something bad? No no, not really, because I mean as far as so dear we split into the alien and under that? Is that in an essay national nuclear security administration, that's all the nukes shit out with daily so it was all like I was. I was paid by the office of science sunday, equally, I was working to support the d. I its missions is to have sought philosophically or whatever I felt ok about it. You know where I did and then that that without this shit, we may allow me to quit that job and everything that I've done. One of the main, things. I'm most grateful for now in retrospect, is that I'll never have to work for fuckin, rick, perry, who's. Now, the secretary of energy, when I was there, it was a nobel laureate and after that, the head of physics and energy at mit right and now trick ferry. So yeah glad to not be there any more

We feel that we are surrounded by like what smart people or that you know that a lot of a lot of smart people arrested the leadership yeah I mean yes, I did I feel like that, but also a lot of these people are like lifers, like a lot of feds tend to not leave some, it's pretty good gig as far as that shit goes yo, and so they you adopt this philosophy we're time that it's like it, They do the work, regardless of who the mai, the top guy as most of em, say: angli rattled I'll keep. the same shit with bury their dead right. Or your health coverage in everything dia, all it so why'd you quit because I have made some videos went viral and comedy became an actual viable I'm sure he knew and stand up when you were there dear. I started a start at sites. Booters knoxville was my home club or you do in the kind of jokes you're doing now then yeah.

I mean I've, always kind of done. Have you know tried to be non stereotypically southern humor? You know what a main layout, the the videos just have the whole liberal redneck thing it not I do as overtly political reich, it's our his men in that vein of I'm not what think I am based off how look at how ass I under whatever I know I mean I don't say the things you expect me to say: did you feel like there was pushed back on that front claudia from crowd. Wherever I mean yeah, I depend on what it was about because some of their their rules like it had to be church clean, they called it. I can say diameter hail or nothing and so any kind of remotely risque topics you know that be like you don't do that mouse. Don't do that really yeah yeah but I was I was still even that was my uncle about going out of chad, an ogre, gonna, nashville or doing all trousers whatever like super early on and then I started

hit the road a little more coming years in our you boot, when you do these videos, five and a half five and a half years so, now as a couple years ago there was a year. a year ago. So what what prompted you do them well so, like I said I was doing the same kind of thing on stage for a while- and I had this bit that I thought was like my signature bid, I close with it a lot or whatever, and it was very or to the videos. The bit was basically me in our yelling bunch of life Well, she had an extremely red neck fashion. After setting it up right- and I never said the words liberal redneck, but I made a set list or whatever that bit was entitled, liberal, read and write and my close buddies there were comics. I started telling you about two years ago was like. I think I gonna do a video series about this, and then I went to I did this riders workshop

NBC? Does I got into that and went to thirty rock or whatever in twenty fifteen? You did. You went up to new york yeah that NBC. Does this light not writers' workshop program you can like submit to or whatever and I got into it in two thousand and fifteen and went up there and entered use whatever the liberal redneck character to them up there as part of that workshop, and they, like you, know they loved it. They were like you need to do something with that rat so long as that workshop just awake. He got therefore away there, like wings. Acted ass, an hour or something will bring in like snl writers or seth Meyers writers or Jimmy fallon writes stuff like that haha, like you know, I mean so yes, did you earn anything yeah, I think so. As far as that kind of writing specially I mean it was awesome experience I loved it, especially at the time it was great. The first time in new york yeah. That was my first time in new york period. Did they put you up? now slept emma buddies, basement and quaint. Only a magistrate. Yet when it goes on to remain drew morgan's, his name, but so

and they loved the character, never in them, and my friends like you should do something with what and but I in my head, I was like man I'll have to I have to, but money by camera hard to learn how to edit. I don't want to look like an amateur hale. You know, like that's what I was a guy and then will our last year I saw this video that went viral among the far right. So like people, I know from salon or whatever were posted it share in it, and it was a preacher north carolina above, bout. My age, I believe we knew from home reposed in india like so it's got early thirties preacher, north carolina standing in the woods by big jacked up truck just yell and in his I found about the transgender battering walls and perverts and the bathrooms and rises will strike him down. The last of it had fifteen in views, and I had at such a lot by went off. I was like. that's, what I'm trying to cite aroused or make fun of, and it is our media fancy shit? I'm just do it exactly the way he doesn't male emolument play better. That way right, and so I just went

few days lighter and made the first one and it got likes many thousand views on facebook, and I was over the moon, I was thrilled via an atomic bodies. As I look I people like it, I'm would keep this up and in the second, when I made was about age, be two laws and in it get like over twenty five million views or whatever, and that's when my entire life changed was after that yeah yeah. What happened Well, I got all these like followers on social media overnight at put on their that I yes I'm a comedian. This is supposed to be funny. Having said that, like not I really do believe these things. I really am from that kind of background or whatever what was the? What was the the thrust of it that one, was about in those transient. Bath thousand is by basically was just saying. Like you know, you know treasure. People been around forever right and how many times have you ever heard about what you're worried about hatton and actually happening? and also what about little boys. You know the vast majority of like kids,

molested or whatever our little boys, and so unless you want to start making separate bathrooms for catholic priests, you shut the fuck up here. I ever have that kind of thing here and now, and that was what you know and it just it you said it Zola, throw blew up, no danger but now you're politicized? Yes, yes, that's it So now I, like you, know having spent time in that arena, you know It means a right out of the gate. You're dealing with contention a divided audience that you're drawing a line yep, and you're, one of their own yeah so I imagined the northerners, the yankees sort of like we got something here, parade him around I made yeah you know and and then like a and then they're like. Thank you good luck with the breathing our oil we'll see. goes but buying what what what what opportunities happened right away

right away people online started set when I said I was a comedian there like. Are you come in to fort lauderdale or european ideal adele fit? You know what ever you had nothing, but I was like, and I had I had actually for about six months I had a manager out here because I had come out here. A few times I came out here did show and santa Monica was a comedy theatre domain you saw me inside pad. She was my representation at the time and thought we started talking like you think we could to actually tour of the shit, and I mean I was sweat and it ma am because there is a huge difference when clicking like on facebook and like pay money and leaving your house and going to show or whatever how much time do you have as a comic that time, like the half years while me how much I'm sorry I have that I could do I mean I could at like stuff, I thought: was right about thirty right. You know stuff that would be willing to do forty five or in our boats like strong features, straw, yeah, right right and- and so we put this too

practice. A trial run of a tour weeklong trial run with me and the two guys I corruptible with who are also progressive, southern comics, alright thematic, you know and we that and the first night was at the punchline in atlanta is on Sunday night and we sold out two shows and george wallace came. Am I watch a show and when all stages, whatever else, unlike that, that was the This was about a month after the video had first been posted, and that was the first miles. I got shit. This is real thing yeah. You know, and I got the book deal and a development do warner brothers developing a sick right now we are in the process of that and they need. Just two heavily last year does are the major things I've come of it so far so, and I was on bill mar yes, I am I've done no a lot of meat. things like that or whatever, and so but when you are in the position urine and in

what what is the in the book. You know it's a book, but it's also like something that that makes us me and people Oh yeah, you know hoo hoo hoo the stereotype southerners cease other differently, but but you're also put in a position to disorder. represent. In a progressive ideas and in that and in what way in the book is practical information I was. There was a sort of agenda, the book other than it being a joke, but while we tried to in addition to like you so ex trying to explain what the south really is a writ or is not to people who don't really know or understand the south, we also tried to like tell how We think the south can do better about things like, for example, in the chapter on racism. It's like, let's vote,

get rid of all these monuments to confederate generals or stop fuckin flying the flag and get over the goddamn civil war in Lorraine, wisley that she had in the past year. That kind of thing I am mainly, but you know, grounding in reality the people We are addressing that too. A lot I mean a lot of them are not even going to read the book in the first place, your items like those shitty people, shitty southerners row and now they're now they're empowered now it seems, They have won the recently the possibility of the kind being. You know if temporarily may be permanently divided along. Those lines seems like a real stability for show when you were when you were touring, why you d? How much pushed back did you get from did. Did the south disown you did. Was there? No, I mean ok, this is several.

the tour by my home town Solana, for example. You know I mean there's lots of people praying format. You know domain back home by judge our ration out are you I mean couple I have here and there like on face, worker writer at nope, not empower. I've went home a couple of times, see my grandma or whatever, and nobody's tried to give me what fire at the rat aid or nay. I know but like as far as the tour thou like the shows our best shows have been in the south and because the people that are come in there

know what they're sign up for their familiar with me: you're, my videos or whatever, so they know what they're getting into the air and they get it on like every level, you don't ryan cause. It's like not just oh, were liberals, and we like the message by this, but also where southerners and where I live rules. So we appreciate that message to or whatever so our best shows had been in the south. We haven't had a security, as you found in either relieved right here, oh yeah, they gotta show they go to imbue. They are so many people have said to us. After shows, you know something along the lines of Finally, on a main. Finally, there's somethin, like that, you know that represent hu. I am your item aimed Iraq as I'm not you know, I'm not to stay typical southerner either and nurse dino? This hasn't loathing for well? Ok! So, given that they like you now, you found this audience of of like minded people, and obviously they were there, like you said they, they ve always been there. What you know in the end. I know you just a comic book over here.

it comes down to you know? What do we do with those? You know the people that you can't see Ass their their hatred or their religious beliefs? I mean you know how like how do you deal with them in in your life. Have you had to in your family or or ear in general, coming from where you coming from, do you have to sit down and have conversations with them yet for sure, not in my family as much anymore, because all the reason I told you earlier yet the people I keep in touch with the very small in their mostly on my on the site- Why are linked to the eye but he had grown up over the years. I mean yes all the time and about my approach that has always been like. I don't back off. what my opinion is or whatever else you not a may not yet, but I also you know won't shut down either like I'll talk with him about it as long as they want to you know, and I and I'll try to just be honest about it or whatever, and I don't flip out and be like you know what fucking piece of shit, man or whatever you know I just tried

talk to him about it and muslim they'll. You know about love will hire whatever ever not named MIKE eventually into shut down, or you know, I've never had any body get like tried to get if the go with me over my political beliefs. So far, honestly, what is usually just our fucking them and you know, what do you find? Are the biggest no yeah, I'm points resistance and we obviously you know, I assume that there be for whatever happening now- is happening that someone was racist, they word now, only a proud racist, no yeah ran, and so that that I imagine that was upon the discussion by outside social issues. You know what do you find the issues that people have our that are their kind, unchangeable yo in terms of what are they defending.

well they're. Ok right now talking specifically about my home town, but there's a lot of mountains out there and maya said their claws Plenty of life has went off a cliff in the past, you twenty years right ever and they just like. You said why are you so there are vulnerable them in their desperate like they just want things to get better and they think that you know so when they hear oh we're, gonna bring your jobs back and whatever else you know, sounds to me. You know main they just want. They want their lot it's not the identity. Is they re on, not in ideological thing, it's just just sort of like hopelessness and yan and anger. Yes, guys inside their control and all the sun. It all gone yeah exactly and they and they think you know, liberals, liberal america, whatever just don't just, doesn't give a fuck about them at all. You know what I like: that's the perception they have and so it, and they also think that liberal america, thanks that you know

they're all stupid, they're, all racist. You know whatever else and right that causes them to just you know lash out again what I mean they voted liberal or whatever, because fuck them big city, liberals, think they're better and made that whole kind of attitude is yeah. I think definitely real. Well the yeah, the right the the using the word liberal as some sort of derogatory thing, without really connecting anything to it. at your yards yeah. I know I I've heard that and I and I see that er I think, that's a that's all rush limbaugh, that's old one, not right lib tard! It seems to me that when I really think about it that had things like that I blame somebody right. Yes, yeah examine you know they can blame the government and then, when someone speaks to that, like the other governments, awful and then gets in office, and then just The same fuckin thing here: new guys, indifferent government usually worse,

What what I don't always understand is how they can keep the are just shifting the blame, to whatever makes your anger feel better when the blame your lies on in policy. It's bizarre. because a liberal ideas, what what would you say where the web, I guess you're presenting now as you and when you have conversations with these people as a southerner one of the ones that that you think are like misunderstanding lies. Well, ok, it's weird to me that, like the problem with psych well where in food stamps stuff like that when so many of these people are also poor whatever, but, like you know, and some on welfare right exactly but well, I need my food stamps know what I mean that, but these mother they're lazy right. You know what I mean by there's a hypocrisy too for sure and I'll, and a lot of them too, though, are like that same out. My in laws are like that, but what they are is therein that

income class, where they don't they're, not getting food stamps and all that kind of shit, but like they're, not doing great era, you know what I mean and there's a lot of people that are like that and they blame people on food stamps and whatever else for being lazy and just abusing the system and wasting all their money and all this kind of shit and that always ruined now they're made and they're paying. For that. Yes, exactly think they're paying and like agra, you know I mean I grew up on food stamps. You know what a means of always I've always been. Very. I guess defensive about that, but also like it just doesn't track for me. Because a guy you know like really those are the bags. Those are the bad guys right. You know what I mean, not the mother fuckers, who you know are sitting so much of our money on all this other shit, and I will end they think I could trump they think they are voting in their own self interest rate. Now you know domain or well in november. You know owe me was always going to bring my job back he's going to know that that does represent their interests, sure to them. You know it makes yeah and it's like, even if liberals deals. Economic ones were in their self interest from afore. Well,

didn't numbing. Clearly they didn't feel that way. So and I would argue that new- that still some kind of failure- big- because we didn't read some oil domain by the affordable care act. Business like I have to assume a lot of people that are in dire straits or on that, you know, and I and I they they. Some of them voted for trump yeah there's a thing: it went an on going around the internet. Some somebody's been accumulating dick social media posts from just regular people. That say something about like Finally, get rid of that sorry, ass, a bomb care. You know my a cia coverages, so much better, like god, I've got icy ay with us and not about in our debate, and I mean yeah the lack of being properly informed and rats him to be the the real hinge to everything I completely agree and the eyes in the air by just gets their sources from other news and information from the sources that

picked out already ripe at so many people like even myself. I mean you know like you. We all do that right. You know on one side or the other, because you know to take the time to actually source information. Properly is a whole other leap, no in niger and if you're, just in a loop of facebook posts of people that they ve already you know were targeted. You some it gets off on that. Whatever the ideology of those posts are, then it comes to you you're like well. This is the new year, the there's still plenty people it I was on the internet. You just google it and that's enough substantiates alright, but in in times of desperation and hopelessness, you know any information. That's going to to sort of like you, no kind of like live in your anger or or justify your ear your point of view. You know when you're in yo, when you're in pain or the error or in dire straits. Your ear gonna gravitate towards active, at least that feels good right, yeah absolute,

and I am obviously- and I mean I'm very guilty of that too, when it comes to just yet reading something into fits. You know fits my narrative or whatever, as long as it's not from some, you know, bum, fuck, dot, com or whatever I'll, probably go with a shirt like you said, we all do that to an extent I've had to become very aware of it. Like you know, I'm saying something like what do I really know about this other than I read a headline right. I heard that you know, but I've I've tried. I've made the a concerted effort over the years to not like like people. I know when people say some shit on facebook that they don't agree with politically or whatever they'll, either block or remove woman like that kind of you're right in your own bubble. In that way, like I've tried hard, The years to not do that too, like keep key those people around are in touch with? What's going on with them or whatever examined a lot of people? I grew up with hell out of me, like you out there, friends of mine and that's another thing too, like I know so many well that that voted for

or that other people in other parts of the country would be like god, you're what's wrong with america, and I might now man he's good. I like good guy. I love that guy sure I m, we have, I know, keep people in our business and we have maybe some common friends it that did had any. You know when I talk about that, will wear my act, just sort of like trying to understand the sort. There's the there's its its complex in the sense that you know out of their hatred for hilary, which was you have. Probably maybe some of it is is based in in in real policy, but a lot of it was just demonization, but also republicans, a republican, so out of them and a lot of people don't give a fuck after de. I wonder why we one get over and why has done that the nuances of of government. Do they just not they don't know

on both sides there just sort of liking- I it's not part of their everyday life there just I can now we hear that fact that we have a president where it is not just gonna go, do his job here, I tweet all day long like usually just sort of like I was I I don't get involved for you, but go do whatever you're going to do, but now, every day we've got to deal with like what what happened? What did you say? I know, and I this on when I was on real time and bill was kind really you really think so, but lacking at one. Another thing this crazy about the hall trump thing to me is like I know no cause. I know these people, if you would have pulled by me what we his base rural working class, wide americans whatever. If you were to Paul most of those- Firstly, the man fired, How many years before we started calling obama out for man, canyon or what the ever before, that, if europe

then. What do you think about donald trump? I guarantee you, it would have been almost across the board negative yeah he's a fuckin, the alien air silver spoon up his ass. No, it all yankee thinks he's better, never body, and you know whatever else like that is not their kind of guy, like he's really not just as a purse. as you know, whatever a personality and that It was balling my mind about the whole times I was looking around again at friends of mine or whatever is like fuckin really that guy yeah, and I think it just shows how how desperate they had become four Somebody we want a gnp enter whatever that. Even donald trump was good, for them in that regard. Yeah, you know what or even w is the silver spoon, but I guess you'd be some sort of rennie dear me I'll do face yet that it was folks. The idea that the EU is like you know, use the odd ball of that family, and you know it was

when they could never get a shit together, actually up texan and in a way. Why it's a wait. What why me just a comic, but I'm here mine. I have to say that a lot I feel I can hope. Like there's people like me who are desperate to I mean that's. The thing is like you know, I don't think that whoever they're calling liberals are democrats or whatever there. You know they you know we don't understand something, but I don't think it's fundamentally not understanding the light, that their leading, but here we don't understand, tolerance or alright- fear of diversity or eat. You know or or a fear of education like there. There are things that are practical. That are going to get lost in this dialogue, and I mean and we on some level Have to be more aware that in we can't you just yes draw the line- I dont know how we start to bridge the gap. Yet one I mean you're right. You know as far as the intolerance and all that, yet

fuck all that there's no concessions to be made while those fronts right, I completely agree, but would have told me, we ve had conversations about. You know my people, whatever all americans is like especially amount mound in a place like that to me it's it's kind of ridiculous tooth, actually think or believe that a lot of those people who are so motivated by how shitty their lives are, are getting their job back back and while I backer one area that they care more about, you know muslims or terrorist or whatever I now don't you now. Shit, no heart, I'm not saying I mean either way they go along with it right, which is still shitty, is hale right without a doubt right, but like to a lot of people, seem to believe that, like oh, no, that's the thing, that's what motive that, what they love about! Tromp is all that stuff. That's why they're on board- and I just I mean I don't think that's true. I think it was the other shit that he sold them echoes weekly or whatever, and they were like. Look if you do that, for you know whatever fine fuckin alike and also the other

the idea that there is this mythological amerika, that's been loss right, yes, exact, and you may be in generations ago. Obviously things were different and people can earn an honest living yeah that was lost, there has been you all progress made. You know cultural. and and politically that is now going to be lost in the name of getting back to this idea of what bercow was yeah and I dunno. If he's going, to bring back the manufacturing base. Wherever I mean, I will be stunned if any of that happens not regardless of policy or whatever just automation. You know the main robots and shit like allows jobs there, not they're, not coming back and mike, I think, there's a huge. reckoning that we're all I too have especially these people really reaches that tipping point where you now thought they'd just aren't those jobs in ok. You mentioned earlier there proud to not be on welfare.

And are very proud of that right on job? They don't need. No body sailed right. It's going to reach a point where you know the actual. feasible, rout might be no universal basic income or something like that. We just don't have job, and I know how that shit gonna play with these people and I don't I don't know what the fuck's gonna happen when all when we finally do reach that point. My fear is that the fuck. It, though, is really existential, like you know, what's end the whole thing right, yeah, I think some of them some people basically just work and say that you know what I just like: fucking, we have blow it all. I want to blow it all up start all over yeah exactly. I definitely think there's an element of that out there and yeah that scares the fuck out of me well, yeah cause that's like a complete existential crisis. That was like the same the same sort of like hopelessness and dark desperation that leads to you know, Devastating opium epidemic is nihilistic in nature that

the idea of getting into our relationship with that drug now, being able to get out of it by, but that sense sort of like you know, fuck it over there is not as surely as the alternative round domain anything is better than the alternative you know like, even if it's getting strung out on fucking pills or you know, blowing the whole thing I can't be worse are a lot of people think you know yeah, I I don't know what to divining right. You know it's just a scary time. but I am glad that europe at least speaking first those who have you no care about other people, I am believe in the idea of a inclusive and tolerant democracy. I just yeah right now, I'm his dry, pretty good for business yeah yeah yeah- I can not only in I would would. Rather we not be in this position right, but I mean yes, it's not you know. Let not gonna be bad for me. I don't think unless it

for a while and wants yes exactly said. So what is the the sitcom? How that pitch happen? What what? What's your show idea, so in a warner brothers. You come to me wanted to do a development day over time because of the book, because it now because the video in they came and saw some in my lab show radios whatever scouted me a little baby girl, goodness I found a deal with them and they were like now here's the deal. We want your voice, but you don't know what fuck you know and you know the main they were much more problematic, they're out your brand new to this. So a pair. You was somebody right and you will, but you will have a say in their view that the opacity they goes. I did all that and I got pair yup, these two guys rob thomas and John embalm, the I co created, rob thomas has been around for awhile. He has. He did Veronica mars yeah and him and John did a party down yeah, sure sure yeah and the rock His eyes omby right now and you end up in robs from texas. Yet so

partner with them, and then the show concept would put together was you know based around my life. For my point of view but has not autobiographical or anything, but I mentioned earlier acreage national lab all that gee. I know courage so like guy who's from who grew up poor and like a trailer whatever in a town like that I'd acreage generally. Where are you know it's a red she'll, redneck town accept, there's also these world class scientific facilities or whatever I write he he laughed at eighteen late never wanted to come back or whatever, but now it like thirty he's got a job. Takes a scientist rally. I s and he's got a job opportunity can pass up at the law

right and so he's moving back home with his wife from california tat work at this lab in the town where he groups are now he's surrounded again by rise, all redneck buddies and his you know with his wife from California and is an highfalutin job yeah and exactly and his mom is just get out of prison out again at some so lotto biographical were you in the process. Worry in the development process were riding the pilot right now. Actually just turned it enzo, oh good outcome out Agus I mean I mean yes, I feel good about it, a bit stress and about like a mother fucker, unsurprisingly here, but I made I feel pretty good about it. So are I've mass? It will see how it goes well, congrats, on the success in day. I hope for the best for all of us in it's nice and you're out era providing that can poverty and relief fora for like minded people, I just hope that at some point the hopefully the the effect tools-

read, yeah right now. I hear you believe me to also do so, but alright thank you or I would always interesting. In terms of getting to know somebody from different parts of the country than me with you know some real life experience, about it, and I'm he's out there talking media, placing guitar. Yeah and oh

in ah burma.