All right. Let's do this, how are you what the voters? What the fuck buddies, what the buccaneers, what the fuck's there is, what the fuck a delicate what's happening, I'm mare, and this is my podcast w t, F and You'Re- listen until it now sitting in a year Hotel room- and minneapolis, this is men to you, on Monday morning, but tat it's sunday morning for me I am, I am waking up after recording my new netflix special to real. How do you like that? marriage to real. She tour just to a head last night, going to shows to record a special for netflix here. Minneapolis- and I know I've been talking about it. Obviously, if you listen to the show, you know we were moving towards this

but I gotta say it went pretty fucking good. It went it. I want to say I'm proud of myself. like to say also that I did my job and I enjoyed it. I want to say, although things because they're all true There is a lot going on, but I'll tell you about it today on the show is mark mothers, by whom many of you from the ban debo, I was pretty excited, talk to mark a again. This happen, sometimes yeah sure I love diva, who doesn't love, devoutly, devos, very important, very and in the in the life of of some people, people age, remember the diva thing lawyer, younger and and kind of followed it through, but mark is done and a lot of stuff as a lot of stories and is a really a genius guys. So I was happy to talk to him and also I want to say, if you're not signed up for my mailing list, you should go. Do that go to wtf,

dot com and sign up, because, if you're not signed up, then you have missed out on a chance to win in advance copy of our new book waiting for the punch words to live by and the deputy have podcast there's a sweepstakes only for people who got today's news. Wetter to win one of fifty advance copies of the book, so good job to all of you who were already signed up and get my little missives every week, and if you and signed up, Do it now because we'll be running more promotions before the book comes out, sign up at wtf, pod, dot com, so it's So let's get into a what what exactly happened? I'm you know this has been coming. I mean I've been moving towards this four weeks and I ve been talking to you about bringing that hour and a half hour, forty five down to about sixty five. seventy minutes of stand up and sort of slacking on doing that, because I get stage I just want to keep going and

no it locked in over the last few days. The midwest shows for some reason I, but I mean there's. There is good reason. I d love playing. out here in the mid west, the shows a leading up to the show. I did it, the orpheum in Milwaukee, which is in a man in the theater in never dressing room is probably the best of the best dressing room ever there's a whole common area. They ve got records. They got a record player, they gotten espresso bar. They got separate room where you can hang out and the theatres gorgeous the staff is amazing, you know it's nice in that was that was the first show. I think that I really tried to lock in to the seven minutes, and then that then we went to madison me and my opener this this week. The tour amber pressed in the amazing amber precedent, mid the midwife zone amber present and we did the of the past in madison, which was amazing, even though there is why cement involved at the pact's. I I've never been to a theater, and I don't know when it happened, but the actual stage four is poured cock

great made me a little nervous, but because yeah I did I did do a pratfall at all. I don't want to spoil, but- there- was a platform classic comedy device in the special and invited I got to minneapolis, you know I just I was locked in We drove I rented car. We drove across drove for hours and I knew that the crew and everyone involved with especial from networks to the local crew, to the guys they brought him from Chicago wherever to do their jobs had one day they couldn't load in the night before they had a in that morning and put this whole thing together. In one day, It is always amazes me how good crew can just pull this together you deal with a blank canvas and empty theatre. The lighting design was great. The sound sounded great. The set with great it was just is it was enough to show up at eleven in the morning and nothing is built and have that moment of white man. What's I didn't have that

because I knew they would get it together when Sheldon directed and was just like wrangle doll, I mean it looked fucking great. It was at the pants ages. here Minneapolis. It was exciting and I gotta be honest with you. I wasn't I freak out at all. I mean this is my I don't know not including half hour spent like I did a half hour for hbo back and ninety five, but none of the records my records, not so thou tickets available final engagement. This has to be funny all leading up to. I think he pain, which was an album and my first, our plus special for extended more waiter, another our place special for epics, and then this one so out of work sometimes I just have to say that she had to look. We see the evolution over the past. However long I've been doing this, more than half my life, so I don't know man, it's it's an amazing thing to accomplish really to to be able to

your job and have these things happen, because you spent so much time on your job. It's a little difficult now because of that local climate. What europe against, on a day to day basis coming through your phone coming through your tv coming through just thee, you're in or and or anger, just knowing that I was doing my show, the president the united states was doing. One is, of his lie. Divide in terrorized hate your neighbor road shows across the country. The press was doing their show. For you know too, to establish the facts. that facts are important in and we should celebrate that, and I was doing you my little self involved. The mortality theme special here in minneapolis and it was. It was really amazing, private. You, I think, primarily because you know a job and I pulled the set together and everybody work to make it happen.

And it was just stunning- and I chose minneapolis because people are many are We have a long tradition of of lie performing their their decent people, their respectful audiences The audience was amazing fans are amazing there there either grown ups, even if their kids, I dont mean kids, I mean yo in their twenties. I tracked a certain type of person and They know how to sit and behave in an enjoy and debbie polite in and be attentive, and it was in, minneapolis is all about that I've always loved this city and am glad that I did not know winter but I did about it. I guess that's what I'm trying to tell you people I'm excited about it and it went well in. I was com, but I did have that thing. in this happens. I think that first show that we can It might be a little weird saturn, what show we're going to use because they were both solid, but I kept my emotions in I was level headed. I was underplaying the whole experience, so I could just show up and do it

and when they brought me on stage, was overwhelmed with emotion and fighting back tears again there. gimme, a carnegie hall. It happens. I don't know if it's a big events, that I've tried to make big events in my mind, but I had to struggle in those first met in that minute not to cry on stage, and I dont know what's that about it's not a bad thing, but it kind of a kind of up ended my plan, for how I was going to open the show and the tone I was going to open the show, and so I yeah I did my first forty five seconds, trying not to cry, but it was good tears. It was good. and you know I don't know manage it. It just one great nam and I'm proud of it, and I m excited for you guys too, to see it so at the end of this, At the end of the year, the taping we had the crew out, we did a picture and linen. I had ordered like just a shit load, it doughnuts and pizza and sandwiches. So you know a trying to be held

I'm trying to be healthy, but man when you get done with a big piece of work. you know you get off stage and you, into that dressing, room area and there's just a firing squad of doughnuts and pizza. You now you want to eat you want to be part of that Well, that's another reason why I'm a little tired, I think I've got to do hang over but again, thank you, Minneapolis! Thank you netflix, you know, thank you. The crew, they did it. Some guys were worked on my last special the year, set designer and saw the camera guys and live nation? Thank you linen avalon, my men meant spent eight years at avalon David. What is I'm not accepting an award? I'm just the idea, want to acknowledge a lot of people have to come together for me to do, little selfish thing, and they did a great job. So mark mothers by

I was nervous about this because you know a east he's done a lot of stuff. Any sort of spired an interesting person, but you know, is very talkative in it was it was. It was kind of the in conversation, he's got this retrospective excellent of his visual art and sonic arden? It's now on display at the great art gal We had an why you. The exhibition is open through joy. Fifth also, in the new york city area mark will lead a six sided keyboard performance of his compositions. This thursday may forth. at the end. Why you score centre? You can get take it from the scoreboard box office, That's the kind of guy is this is me and mark mothers by back in the garage. I don't know why I can't just download it here. We go. You get to appoint your life in your like what what What good is this stuff

Do you ever have that moment where you like? What would feel like with nothing here while you can imagine it when you're on the road right. Yet greater europe those hotel rooms. You like, I, am not responsible for any this in it's clean. Yeah and I took her to the extreme by accidently once because we used to have our suitcases picked up outside of the room here, and I managed to put myself case outside of the room. While I just have my underpants go into bad idea and one? So I got luckily somebody somewhere had a yellow, devos suit. I could where, on the plane, I made it to the next day they take that route, They took your close workers where we put our suitcases out. No was some. There was back in the is where we had disposable cash right right. So very nice is someone happen, avid devos suits. Luckily, though, there how somebody had something else, someone had fashion some in dutch

garment for you wear. So they show they did it's a retrospective right yeah, of everything, of everything, mothers by well yeah are related to it The show has about three hundred pieces of ardent three thousand. I'm sorry now. But wouldn't you consider everything you do our related, really it wasn't that how it well sort of on one may be. I am not talking about you, you necessarily jobs. I mean from from. inception of year thing it was an art, compulsion. Yeah, yes, that's that's that's correct! So I would think that even earlier diva performances, if not most of them through the beginning, work were somewhat performance, are pieces. Well we thought we were truth. We thought we were in art, movement, sure we thought we were our depot

and we were archduke devil devolution and the music thing was part of it. It was almost acted. Accidental do. Cause. We we thought we were interested in all the art movements that happened in europe between world war, one and world war? Two so we loved agitprop visa and we we love- stage, a stage proof women silly ass, it included visuals and music and motion and theatre. in politics. Here and dumb. We thought that that's what we thought we were doing without. That was what we were where we were going to know. None. you know you got a record deal in and you find out as other people that have ideas to what you're doing and they want to buy. actually and it makes them money yeah,

if you end up going down these paths, that were kind of not totally intended right. Well. That interests me, though, that the the sort of inception of everything, because you grew up in what part of ohio akron we were were the rubber capital of the world where we had at the time and our tires and things tyres and all things made out a rubber bia undone souls, and I so that was So we were a wannabe like cleveland, was kind of a detroit, wanna be sure, were clearly laundry and was just you and your brother too brothers and two sisters em. Both my brothers were in the band originally. So when you're grown up. What do you know what? What was your dad? Do? We see in the rubber business, kind of everybody is in a way and if they're, not behind a salesman, and you know was he was kind of law He had come a dale carnegie. You know kind

He was america is a land of opportunity, sure kind of guy who he had a really great at you know who we reminded me other in a way is timothy Larry, really except for industry. He was yet he was not acid remain indifferent. but I mean they were both like super positive guys, charismatic charismatic and in the kind of they were both, people that would look at look at peace, when a party at home or something and then they had shaken what the the guys that them most ordinary right and but it also go check out the people that we're just wall while ours and we're just and they talked omens. Break up conversations, and so he had a hustle. He was a good salesmen yeah. So like this shift, because it seems to me like you in looking at this stuff and grown up with the again the first be records in high school. I remember when the first one came out that I use.

did define like this we would call it ever have to have our time labeling. But it seems like what devos stood for in the aesthetic of diva kind of changed culture a bed and certainly music. there is a sort of an industrial americana thing that you seem to kind of by guy. I don't know what to call it, but it seems to be reference in exactly the world that your father came from a kind of turning it his head a little bit, just visually and otherwise he yeah. I mean so like older, but you probably know I I to I can state, and the hearts of the the shooting and that kind of really affected us and well. Let me go let's get there, because I I I'm you know, I'm sort of obsessed with that. Right now may because I've. Seen your things about it lately but you know, when you went before you got two can state. I mean it's early sixties right when you're grown up and he ate the entire culture changed you know that the hippy thing happened in life

Where were you when you were in high school? What were you gravitating towards? You know before the the ship well I I was an artist already. I knew I was. I went If I now I was seven got a pair of glasses and found out I've been going. I'd gone through second grade, legally blind and and and one day I put on a per glasses- and I said things I ve never seen before, including clouds and telephone wires and house, and one that long yeah and it's not that's not on carbon. That's that's! Actually pretty common kids can fund. in fairly well yeah and then all of a sudden you find out they ve been doing this without really being able to see anything, or at least you know, just light and dark and colors and things like that? But if you sound, you know you can like guide yourself. Yeah and you know if you come up and he grabbed somebody by

they still look at em. They just think you're crazy. I need riddle and probably, but it's you know, and you have made an identification than you did. You know that can blue object is grannie walkin around right right. You can name the shapes but I knew that. But that's that's. When I decided I was an artist when you could see clearly yeah that that moment, when that moment: did you think your art was going to be? Okay? Oh, okay! Well, here's what happened! The next day I was back at school and my school teacher who had been spanking me because coral Punishment was very popular and I guess I was nineteen fifty seven hours fifty eight reacting. What area was you know and spanking me every day and put him in a corner and sent me to the principal's office she's, looking I'd never see trees before I'd only knew the the part that was attached to the ground. That you could run into here, and She said you draw trees better than me

and just saying that it was the first time she said something nice to me right. So those like that made me think I wanna be an artist, and that was it. Now, when you kind of got into high school and stuff, were you where you goin attaining towards the kind of hippy trip yeah like a yo yo a few years past, and then we're sitting around and kitchen with five kids at a table and my dad's got a little portable black and white tv set. now you give your kiddo follow me and I powders right aim to keep em busy here and here I turn on the tv and we'd all watch had Sullivan and I remember seeing the beatles come on at sullivan, and I and I I go that's why I've been tortured with keyboard lessons for them. Five years to do that I knew there was a reason I had to play music. Could I hated music up until then, really

when he saw the beatles at deliver the message that was like that change it. So as the outfits, the matching outfits was that the moment where you realize matching outfits might be did this crazy, music they receive, and then you know- and I know the second They came on. You know it's like them, John lennon not only was playing a keyboard, but he used, as I didn't know, who generally louis aura little richard were so when I saw a job John Lennon go like this. I thought savory, never told me. You can use your elbow to play the organ. It's amazing I thought he was. I thought it was incredible rising. How did every day and not only that he was using this keyboard. There was the black keys. white underway keys were black, god, I've never seen anything like it was a box continong area and in that did it that really, I became obsessed with the british invasion as a kid.

The kid and then when did you start neo doing visual art kind of like a lodging and status curlew before that protocol yeah just doing here and there, but I think you guys I was always drawing a dry every day you do yeah dumb. Is it therapeutic or is it a compulsion or way which is it all? I know it's like duds. What keeps me room I've never shot anybody here or either. I can't even think of anybody. I wanna kill them. There's a lot, a horrible people out there, that's ok you you decide to do. Go to arts. Go I'm just trying to picture the shift between he's like recently in I read the book, an ultima. I read a very thorough book anathema yeah so this year is one of the great kind of a symbolic rituals of the death of the sixties. and then I watched a documentary by Adam Curtis really puts forth the ice. That is, the current state shootings were at work.

The end of an active Political left, yeah by you know terms of your middle to upper class. Kids, you know they're having the courage to push up against authority. You devil it. I saw that at my school for sure it will. I mean you were there, that's why I'm trying to figure out. You know one when you're dates, two years in right, you're, two years and our joe and you're doing why the music or go to you know I didn't. I didn't study, Is it at all. He I came in on a partial art, scholarship and the first year I didn't know exactly what I was gonna take and then I found out about printmaking and. I fell in love with, and I became obsessed with printmaking and silks greening or the actual green print. I did a screen printing with those copperplate all the different styles, but scream printing was my love cause. I could I could until three thirty and all the kids, they hear the bell go in and they run off to their sortie room houses. We era there for two.

It is on their bars or where the radical party and that many the whole our department to myself between you know five at night and five in the morning the next day, and so instead of you, Queuing up with a bunch of kids to do a print, I could. I could burn all the screens and one night. I could then print them one color at a time and by the time I finished clean, huge screen and ray, exposing it to me another color, the the pay would be dried. Like could take em all back and I print the next collar, and I could finish of art. In one night, and so I loved scott school I hated school up until then k through twelve were were miracles. I was somehow the kid with a kick me: oh yeah, adding written on my back permanently. He didn't have any friends I had a couple for but who they were all the outcasts gather what they would come

Yet the nerd crew, where we were there and you get did, yet, like you did bullied constantly pretty much hurt was pretty much that it just somehow I fit into that. I I had the right look. I comb my hair down like the beatles. Instead of back, like Elvis presley, we kind of was upsetting, that is quite out of quo on. Did you bill? ever resentment, I mean did it? Did you find quietly raging. You know how there wasn't any there wasn't any way too I had no way to two. I tried fighting by ice I got him down and have my hair cut off a couple times and one time I had a fortune, stabbed a the arm and that didn't help did didn't help. It wasn't enough. The fork did not it was it was inspirational for forward. My

enemies, so it was like I hated yeah. I saw I just I just just turned out The bad experience in college was this whole other thing I disappeared into the crowd. My era grew as long as I wanted it to. I could wear whatever I wanted to wear. Nobody cared that I was in the bill, and I love that and I could go to the art department. I could print art, I could make decals cause graffiti wasn't worked out yet so Instead, I would print things decals paper here and then I dip in a modern I go round the campus in the middle of the night- and I put things up on on here's and windows- and just this is just an inspired act you it was kind of, my own graffiti, we act, but there is no real. We know one of your lady here, no, no, no! No! I can stuff where you sticking

Oh, I see your way ahead of the curve on that. You might have invented that, because now I get stickers everyday, like people send me things would stickers. Unlike the fifty three. What am I gonna? what actually are I met jerry casale, he was add student knows us more, and he came up to me it when he said, are you the guidance, puttin up pictures of astronauts holding potatoes? standing on the moon, yeah, why he what's your interest and potatoes and and and We heard about. Was it we hit it off yeah? What was he doing in school? At that time? He was an art major and he he was getting to graduate and it was gonna. Do a grad student show and he liked decals. He said. Can you help me make potato Mandy can also help them make spud Monday calcined, and we put them on here

we photos from his highschool yearbook ia and put em hanging off a people's faces status and ass his senior project and claims that he can when mature, but image but that seems to be influenced by some of the stuff you're at least the dada movement and whatever yeah like that Sort of a kind of absurd hilarious to it all that he has something: rapport with you. I guess you're a point. I don't know right, but just enough to like me, people think rio of an anti roma uncomfortable shares her. What did it was trying to do to me these art? So neither one of your play music. It. We were playing music. He then a blues ban that was ere. He momentarily he was just a little to his sense of humour, didn't didn't click with them, so he he without. but he was more into the blues. Yeah played a blues base and dumb

They came in handy later, though I came in great yeah you and what will you do? I was. In my freshman year area a call from a friend of mine who was a drummer who said said, hey, I met these guys, vietnam, vets. They were football players before they went normally when over their kill. People found out about drugs came decided they wanted to start a ban, but none of them play an instrument, and so they're. Putting other a band and bought me a drum set. How would you like to have be three organ. I said that's impossible now, meet these guys. I Madame and they were totally from probably from the world that would have been kicking, my but fewer before that in high echo that day, They had gone through a life, changing experience, kind of programme and came back here and acronym chow, and while they were gone because,

The reason they were over in vietnam was to help american business you know like exploit third old countries, a news there is very recent events show that he also its people started started. I mean that people all the time companies kind of while, while vietnam war was going on, they started moving out of akron. going to Brazil. Goin does asia and hiring people for like Twelve dollars a month instead of twelve dollars an hour and then and these guys were imported hip to that the counter culture. and people our yeah cause. They came back. They thought they were going to do with their fathers the grandfather job that I thought they were going to work in the factory and, and you know just they thought they had steady job and that wasn't the case and in akron still isn't totally recuperated from There are a lot of artists who came out in akron, probably because of that, but

that whole area there's there's something about in others in about. What's happened in this country that that is valid, that their angry about now definitely and it's been happening for years- is sort of like what I'm getting from what you're saying in oh hi, Ohio got hit very hard and you know the other reaction to that over the last five four five decades has been this horrible opiate epidemic, which really started in ohio and southern ohio I just found. You need anything by the way yeah. What do you get that so you're hanging out with these vets? Who are kind of you know pushing the So so I was with them. They said if I wrote music, they pay my room on board. so I already have my school thing worked out, so I would go to school every day into art, and then I come home and I'd right music for these dudes

for a number of years before the shootings happened. state and then that were brought this guy, jerry, casale, hoo, hoo along with a couple of his friends. They were already kind of, they were definitely conceptual artists He was deathly looking for something to do and it what we just kind Gerald together we talked about He had seen happen at school. What did happen? How did it they do them the whole bill to anywhere you that the protests were. I don't. I don't have a yeah, I witness accounts. I am I remember after the shooting a member the fbi agents leaving my its house. going into my mom was in shock because they had years of my younger brother, who is, I think, a jew you're in high school at the time had hitchhiked can't and was I This issue has lighting and american flag. He had a flaming american flag and he was trying to stop fire

from putting out the fire at the roxy building here and there like that Welby he's only fifteen now that his help was like that kind of kind of stuff and and did it happen during a huge protest on campus- is at work. Yet I went down yet can can state when I go There was an amazing school and the art department was incredibly via a vibrant and bringing an artist from all over the world to to residences, and I saw films like arm satirical on things like our at that good you didn't see. If you went to the drive in theater in akron was right and was there like art films that kenneth anger and stuff like that or or or all that kind of stuff coming through, and we all got that and richard myers, the filmmaker taught there and in those years Debo even ended up, I'm in full

that he says that I saw less journeys are. I know I got it in the basement somewhere, but I don't know what happened at a movie. It was like it was really on this, is that a kind the cutting edge of of what was happening in experimental art and experimental, film and music. Will. I will yeah at a kent, my beautiful and then ask the shootings that the school for about four or five months. Until we came back in september in the fall to start school again, it was a totally different atmosphere. Was like everybody had gone to, sleep did, did you? only the people they were killed, no they're a matter of fact. Some of them were just people that were not even part of the protests it just happened to be walking by Do you remember that day were you there?

I remember armoured vehicles going down the street and then going to leave the shitty leaves a shitty now and whose shocking nay, you know it. They just close down the whole school and then the guard started, shooting they they shot first, that's that that was the innovation our first and then than they closed things down now, oh my god, I mean like. I can't. The reason why when, when the politics changes is drastically, as it has now that you know that you forget that that was in his part- our history and in most of us have not seen that, and you know you saw it yonder here in amerika? That was armoured? vehicles. Now is new killing kids in rural areas as a reaction to political activism. Right, though,

nothing happening that that was threatening any of them. It was just the governor just didn't live there being any lack of control for him, and he said he wanted to just show a lesson. How does it affect you personally, the outside of the school. Closing I mean you know you, therein this year free zone of creativity and then they He had just kind of the hammer, comes down in the most extreme way, well, as artists is collecting It's I come right about. At the same time I got in I did to a free dinner at a church and I m afraid, no sound great and I got our carbon people we drove up to cleveland and we went to steel workers union hall and their words like a big cafeteria, nay everybody

free meal and great as great men afterwards and somebody stood up and they started talk about the end times and I went out. Gonna pay for dinner, and this stop talking about how The signs were were becoming more more prevalent and that we were getting closer to the end of planet but then being young, kanta, hang jon month long, while, while whinging about and in the hair on my arms just stood up, I was like wow and you're speaking in tongues and as soon as he stopped, somebody stood up in the audience and said: Jesus said will be coming back soon and when he comes back there will be signs and then the sky we on an end, grab and then he sat down and when he sat down somebody else up and they had a whole other language was. We believe they had own really intense. You know like come non central young man,

non literal guttural noises and somebody stood up and decide, that, and that happened about half a dozen times and sound. in. The interpretation is sound yeah and then they broke up and a little groups could they were trying to cut. It was a recruitment thing in and so they went around a circle and they got to me- and I was I didn't, know what to do- I just kind of emulated, fred, flintstone and when ye abbot ever do yeah, but ever do that cause I was just not prepared for or where I was, but I'd love their very impressed and remember why cause I lived in downtown akron at ganem- were walking a nice heard. This homeless guy, like like ranting and it made me stop and I went over to listen to him the cause thinking, whereas this coming from their something where people or are relinquish lean there.

Intellect and their embracing something nonsensical, that dead, they're, looking for something spiritual and I was curious. I think it won't wait. A minute really use there's only temporary of our brain that in this language, maybe those other language. Maybe that has some to do with the other ninety percent and act. I started attention to two renters and two and two speaking and tongues became interesting to me, became somethin that I thought might be a clue as to who we were why we were here near an end, which would you Emily figure out. Ok, here's what I think we are, I think, the temperature, our brains. You know about it's a nanny for the other, ninety percent sure, and it's like it ass- to do all the stuff like get dressed and make sure you process the idea,

b. I flush, but the other. Ninety percent is the part that slight it's like the dolphin part of the human or the alien. It's the it's, the part that might still have, a communication powers or might have fourth dimension, hours or might so coarse. It's really selfish. If that's the case, though, because it not sharing much of that information with the other ten percent. That's that's in charge of things. An oar or or the other the banana is not allowing it fully there. Now I got somethin there's something dysfunctional, an adversarial relationship between then dolphin in the nanny, and what you end up with is just this kind of em. after all, dysfunction Ain species. That is like danger.

to the rest of the planet, yeah and driven by by habit and fear. Yes, I agree, habit and fear, habit and fear. Yeah, I get don't don't break the Heaven or the fears unleashed and don't let that go. Be different exactly this all sorts, so, also even with diva yeah. When we decided we wanted, we wouldn't be music reporters and- and we did with our art and and- When did the vision happened? Like you know you you have this moment, you can't stay shootings happened. You find yourself in a strange church. in your now that kind. Your blue, your mind in terms of you know: what are we really know about who we are and in how our brain works so well Is the mission of devos star tat kind of manifest itself? I think I think the first the first bits of it were happening. A nineteen seventy and think was poster proceedings and, and was assaulted,

indeed each other and as you jerry bob, my brother, there with a bob lula's yeah, whose kind, of arm, he was injured because he was like gum ah like he will. He knew he was like MR encyclopedia. I liked him because he yeah he. He had a lot of information about everything and but but then my brother was kind of human jerry had this kind of more energy, where they like my brother bob, was kind of like he was a guitar player, serious. What he was about here in this other stuff whatever you'd think yeah. Here yeah I was trying to play guitar I lit a flag on fire and gotten trouble for it. I don't care. You know and I am my brother, Jim yeah, who was our first drummer. We started talking about drums and and what we wanted, the band a sound like an. I really wanted to.

I didn't want to be a rock n roll band. I thought we were like this art movement anyhow and in the back part of it was just part of it right and I I said you know we need modern sounds. I would think of like the futurists in italy that were like adding foghorn and an electric motors de orchestras- and I thought William, we need mortar blasts and we we too rocket sounds, and we need reagan and we need sounds. It comes our culture. You know to add our music and my brother, Jim invented. Maybe the electronic drums. He he definitely. He worked might muffler near shop at the time and he took my tail pipes and built a stand and then took practice drum pads and added acoustic, guitar

props to him and random through fuzz tones and while wah pedals and echo plexus and ring modulator, said he'd play drums and its it was the god awful awesome, incredible, sound you ever heard, and he was he. Became so obsessed with the electronic thing he became so it into electronics them. He then started circa bendy and there was no such word- is that at the time, but he started nebulae all of our since and I and everything everything electronic he would play with it and make it do things that wasn't supposed to do, and I he lost interest in drumming him and just became interested in that. and on that was start and we were like at the very beginning, was probably the most of an hour. And Debo ever sounded. I think in some of them according to available. Aren't they oh yeah, I'm sure yet

think just about everything is out there in the world if it without their navy was recorded somewhere, it's probably out there and so it was not had nothing to do with with songs or hooks or anything. It was just ex expression and integration of sounds although you know we were, we were always interested in and pop culture so what are we loved the idea of of instead of being another pirro boo right or another where they round and already they were yeah matter? Of fact we were we swapped clubs, they'd come down and play at the club that we that we played in and in akron and I look to cleave on play at the place that they used to play here. But they were more song, jeopardy driven them? at the time, though they became very art farther our third there, but they were like kindred spirits for sure he's an interesting guy. What sets singers now he was crocus, be him up at the time, and now is then he went to his real name, David Thomas yeah, he's a he sorted

interesting guy, you guys are friends. Well, we I wouldn't say that we were like gum, artists working from the same part of the world? At the same time I mean I, I got him upset one night cause he played in cleveland and are her show was very fur. Is Where does it was? It was also very formalised and we had weed like the yellow plastic hazardous waste suits earlier on, and then we would rip them off about two things. the way through the show and we'd have another outfit on underneath, and we did the same we really built a shows, really tight, but last song would be this character, buggy boy that was kind. My alter ego and he bogey boy could speak in tongues. Boogie boy would do things that we We never knew exactly what was going to happen at the other night,

present, and so I just one night, boogie boy. He stuffed his eye. Balin, those like three dollar plastic sauna suits or something on tv. You know one of those ramble you'll probably sold berne, and I full a newspaper here, sized big like crocus beseemeth was it I'm dumb came out in and say, his lyrics to one of his songs over the middle of java homo cause, Jocker home, was a song were, was like: we would use that to make people go crazy, as you will do the are. We not been we artie boat, chant for a long long enough, so that finally there'd be some vietnam that came there. Could he wanted to hear fog hat? And you know his favorite songs right now.

About five minutes of that the guy will go okay, that's it and you slam his bear down and come up on stage and attack us and, and we loved being a lightning rod for hostility in those days why he was it seems, like you grew up with yeah I was kind of like you turned it on its efforts. I come off. It was something that we needed to expel. I think so. The outfits and stuff like this you guys were you enjoyed the provoking well, we didn't wanna be a rock band. Even then we knew we didn't. My brother bob thought that was he didn't like as boring or are we just thought it was with that after all, was over. It was like already there seventy seventies and it had been going on for, like twenty years now, live in a time to this stupid stuff nine rock n roll, but but partly in defence of that was because what has happened in rock n roll is like, after nine

in seventy and after shootings around the country and everybody went to sleep politically. Music came back as corporate raw, it was like bans like boston sticks in our midst seventies, yad sunday was like I'm, I'm white, I'm stupid? I'm a massage innocent, I'm proud of it was basically the politics of that stuff, and then there was disco which was kind of a beautiful woman with no brain and you know so- You don't want to do either those away. We knew we that not wasn't anything what we were doing. We were in art movement. We were like, we were our depot. And what went in and what was the intention of the movement in your mind, garden vivo huts. I thought we were like her and I we thought we were musical reporters we thought we were are. Are the reporters, we were making these little films and we were, we were

I come we fantasized. A debo vision, re education, channel on tv where, where Instead of doing stupid dances, they did a studio, before I clubs they'd come, do like these kind of like parents Terry of aerobics classes. We imagine you're, like everybody, happy this whole new set of em of lang a whole new language of how to move in a concert, friends listen and how to how debate but above all, unified The idea was that you want, but that was the joke. It was sort of fascist movement, it was no, we were we were. We were saving the planet from stupidity, yeah, yeah and that go Well, I didn't I don't know view. If you look at what's going on right now, you'd say weave: we are, we

We were not paranoid at all. That's true Did you find, though, I get that at at the time where you said you went back to school after a five month hiatus and also what you're saying now about the evolution of corporate rock? Did you find that that sort of some nam ballistic her that sweep walking? Did you find most creative people you chose to to withdraw inside and create, as opposed to continue to sort of like actively fight. You know yeah yeah, it's it's like I'm the people who were kindred spirits, before. Yes, they were. They were enshrined to me of what had happened and nobody thought of that. We we didn't think. Thus in the war in vietnam was worth, would something that we get killed for we are in a we thought we were without. This is the the right thing to do within our right thing to do rights to its they entail. thing to do and I couldn't think of one single

vietnamese person I wanted to kill, so it was especially absurd me so then, after that happened? In- and I guess you know me- ok but always him and market forces sort of one out in appropriated music, so you guys are working outside off. The grid did to do something new and in something jarring, and how did that evolve into you know getting a record deal yeah. You know it's like. We were thinking whose it out there that we respect- and you know I I love people- have spoken, things like our while man fisher and yeah beef heart that many of them and I met them and it was unsatisfying and away to meet them. Why it always kind of. take on cap? be part. I I think saved him from going to jail one day cause was over. It is were her a rehearsal at his place here out here and he wanted some ice,

dream before he went home and took him to an ice cream places we will as what talking with the drama, and we this woman screaming and we look over and she's screaming, because captain b part whose the middle of a really hot summer has has a long black coat on a black hat. He, hoovering over this little kid helping this child, draw something here. woman is freaking out, because it did look we're here, If so, and so we went over, we pulled him off and we took them out of the it. He said something like my baby won't, let me have a baby And we're like wow, I can see why yeah it's a good hook. That's a good song, my baby! Won't! Let me have a baby yeah. I was yeah, he was he. He was impressive to watch with his band because, although He couldn't write music out in any thing that was even vaguely and he could bear barely communicate and in a way people would play they all his bed.

members all loved him and they treated him? Like the like this, raising area frontier, you know messiah, and so they all they'd fight over after he left they fight over. What did he mean when he said this really is what your guitar should. So I wonder out. He meant these movements and then they, argue over who should be, and they would like try to work it out and they show him the next, an eagle non yeah, the innocent like that, I became very fascinated with him and I hear you was like pre. You know a kind of a task mass and in desert. Getting that sound body gotta, that was we impressive thing that reduces airy like come in watching him actually served me well when I kind of went into the belly the beast and started scoring films because it made me and the people that had absolutely no ability to talk about.

What they wanted, musically other than to say I just it's just you know At some we're deniro had diarrhea and it doesn't look like a love seen at all in and the woman could smell at it, and and just you make them. You got to help it out, you gotta help out, and they just have things that in your or the sky was was overcast and they needed it to be a sunshine sky. So then they say you gotta help me make it a sunshiny day here right now and- and I instead of like bees confused. I just kind of learned how to like enjoy that part of my the it's kind of In some ways, I have to say I secretly love people totally inarticulate articulate out anything musical, but they,

what they want in some way. That's really great annihilate may know feeling arena somehow eddie know something yeah me I they look for these words and then I get to try and interpret what they mean. You're interpretive speaking in tongues p s Ok, so you geyser plugging away in Europe hazmat suits you make? A noise is so in in in ohio. Primarily when do you, when you two were, do you sort of become on the radar? Well. You know somewhere around nine in seventy four year on little but dislike with numbers. I incorrect nokia, actually nice timeline in your book, actually likes. It is helpful for maybe it is it's it's like of some says: can you write something like ah like Mozart's wedding large or something, and then you go like this, but then you a fine.

I can have it in my head and I can write it incorrectly and then it becomes an original peace, and so it is words. That dyslexia is this. I use I have just enough of it that its useful everywhere, except for I, have right down phone numbers. Could I can't remember seven numbers in a row yeah Well, yeah now, like their algeria, codes are different, needs nineteen little face any fighting to seventy seven but see no. Seventy six! You produced a personal I go home of bad and with mongoloid on your label boy here, so that is, I would get out there yeah right before that we had made are a film we em homo and secret agent, man and. And we made the film because dollar, whose and thou art class with jerry. And I Had gone to minneapolis cause, he wanted to be a commercial director, yeah

he came back and he had this popular science magazine back and chosen uncovered says: there's this young white couple hole the silver disk that looks the same size as a final lp, india and it says laser disks everybody will have them by christmas. Basically, what it said article and we're like later disc- and they got taken hold twice much material plus you get pictures with it and that's all were audio visual people for sure were like villa we make we, films and we make paintings and we we design shows- and we and musics part of it too, and so we thought that's it we're making product for laser discs. That's what we thought that don't get too with the word laser in it yeah and it sounds I Rock'N'Roll with wasn't saying the word rock and roll like satisfaction, like your version of it- is great in there have been other versions, otis, writing and so on, but tat but

when you say that you had a sort of and just relationship with corporate rock. What was the decision to do? Satisfaction Well, I mean we love the rolling stock, That good, that they were so frickin awesome were and still are. Gonna was nineteen. Seventy four! Ten years later later, since the original we thought well, it needs to be reinterpreted for the seventies right so, but happened kind him. It was very. It was a very organic thing. Bob we were in this, in a car wash in ohio that we were allowed to rehearse and that had no heat fear and so were standing there. Next, like tubs of soap- and things like paper thousand and dumb were wearing coats and you see you're steam club bug sally starts playing that kind of like tactic that bad effect little raphia and then Alan's play something on the drums? That's that's kind of very it's like an it's like it,

accords or something ryan, jerry's plain plain a base My brother's playing, guitar and and singing satisfaction on it just made us all laugh right and. and that's when we loved it, because it seemed like a way to whistle when people because people say what are you guys? What are you doing? We thought if we satisfaction, could be like a doorway and see you could see what diva was about right without song may. As that was better and like any kind of a verbal description of what we want. trying to do and better than the anthem here, which was the jackal homo too agree well day day the Some was really good for agitating people. Grain and but visit to pay attention, but if somebody wanted a if somebody was killed yes, what are tight? What kind of so we are plain you know and we played em

fashion ryan and then maybe uncontrollable. Urge, because that uncontrolled urge, we we put that as the first on our first album because it took them the opening cords thrum I want to hold your hand me put them on uncontrolled large right at it and then yeah yeah. That was all you know. How does she loves you? You know, but but are reprocessing. Right right right how ghana so it's funny, because I didn't It was an unnoticed by m by John Lennon who who came to a devos show one night in new york, we play max's kansas city. In the end, you set up your equipment in the back wall right and to take your equipment out We had to wait for the the whole placed empty at the end of the night. So we our line van parked out front and I'm sitting there in the passenger satan he's walking out with ian hunter in their both really drunk

John Lennon looks over at me and he's like he goes. Oh that's a guy that was, and he came up. stuck his face right here. Anyone yeah yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah right in my face and others like ok, I can ever and drive off the road and died, and I don't care about is great. It was pretty awesome after he knew it. He knew it he he he sang yeah yeah yeah more than I had at that point that I can speak towel. I've probably sung it more than he ever did right, but he sang it more than I had at that point and as Volvos abandoned you become popular in you're selling. A few records date was wherever that, and you change the the tone and the total Fits on occasion, but they all seem to match, reserve yeah, they were always there. They are not glamorous, be way back

if that matching Alfred thing now is something you pulled from the fifties ban say, I think you know, or maybe example hours were more like maintenance, men out our glorious yeah yeah, but I do the out there was more than once were where somebody would hand us we'd be waiting out front for a cab to take us to a car to take us to a concert airplane. and somebody would get out of their car and hand us the keys cause. They look at our outfits and he's gonna be there by there with them. mostly theatre really a d. The intent was that not everything had a purpose. Well,. Was it was? I it gave us. An organised look. I and I think, that's really what we wanted out of it. We wanted to look like cogs in a machine rather than we were kind of already. At that point we were over at bein things like tat. Petty in the hard right or are you know

where one person comes out may become the star, the band. We were kind of less interested. Now more, we thought of ourselves. as all like, like parts of a machine, a movement still yeah me. We thought of like the that seen em metropolis, where, where there's a lot a guy, is controlling this gigantic machine, but the largest part of the machine to really right now I don't know are people know that that whip? It was intended to be a political song, correct yeah, you know why over thought, everything, I'm sure, bio but yeah. I was at the time we ve been touring and people would say, Well, we love america, but your foreign policy is ridiculous and me carter was the president at the time kind of our alike gum. It was kind of our late come on, Jimmy did

Did it read to the public as that will of course it was like what happened is like some dj in Florida actually started lynette and clubs and and then when we show up at radio stations, cosette was They made you do you're genuine, where you're going into two years in toledo, but before you go to the river to the venue to do soundtrack you're gonna. Stop it. You ok. be sure radio, and and do you like it, we'd be and they go. I got Debo and the other room, and indeed going you know, I'd whipped did just this morning, I ever I billion cave so then it became a jerk off Jeff One thing: what was here when you were writing that what was a kind of the resale draw from actively drawing from other inspiration arden. What not! Yet always I mean that even at sound it was What kind of a bit of a deconstruction ovum

there's like a little bit of a baseline for a mob, pretty woman. Even in it, you know Anders, like so we would always like, like just sometimes we started off our songs because of an idea for a well beyond that point, because we were, we were kind of like a dog for, for that. We only when we made our own films. We, unlike what became, though the method of doing it, after me, has rapidly music videos instead of art, film, india, Is this thing where you recognize would hire somebody to make major for you, but we use make our own cause. That's what we did here and you also. So a lot of our songs started off as an idea for a film where they became a song, how really and what about lyrically we dream from poet, sir, we did you pay a people that influence you hold. It.

thing there, how it's like. I remember, I'm going to japan when, when wait for our freedom of choice, show the end. I was friends with these two spangled, the plastics here and, My friend has room, came up to me and said a mark. You know what of your band, is in Japan. I go no egos, there's! No. Correct translation of freedom of choice, so europe, album title is called psychology of desire and we're like that's us, a great Well, that's so cool we loved it. We were laughing. Of course, Japan has no freedom of choice, and- and I remember before that tour was over- we were at a bar and these two- it was just Steve. It was late at night my brother Bob took the challenge it flew, which is like a poisonous, some a poisonous fish. Their name made him sushi out of it and he he he got sick and he's just sitting there with his head on that on the counter, while we're still eating sushi. Of course, we didn't take,

no doctor anything wrong, these two business men there were watching us the whole time and that were the only other patrons at this sushi bar and they both have business. It's on in one of em comes up new he's kind of drunk, it my symbol, big and we just were let my none is frank about god. Oh yeah, simple small, and then he goes no likeable big and it is in both buried, smaller, something like diana by and by. in the one guy has this tie bar on here the hand like a business man's suits what you can see the little guy, and it was a hand holding a pen, and I want to cross the tie and on it said, new traditionalist somewhere like new traditionalists, and we start talk about that works, and what does that mean? We thought wow. That's that's kind of a cool terminally activists like

traditions that are new, that's kind of what would we want to do? We want to start new traditions. We want people to think. First, you known we want to, we want to do positive mutations. He added you know just letting mutations being pushed on you and we love that idea? So I'm remember we went back and we went to write for that. Album were thinking, so we now the song psychology of desire, because we're like what are they going to translate it to freedom of choice. We we're laughing and I remember getting back to and we named our album new traditionalist seattle. We get back to japan and I I as you may about the yo, that the sun I guess. Oh, these you think of that. As I said, what you think the album tide. We got that roma and I told him the story about the two guys you out. title. Not so good mark I go goes album time The new debo album in Japan is called yuppie.

New traditionalist. Translated the yuppie, injured, japanese didn't souls were playing a tour for album. Calling yuppie, but everybody showed up. You know they also. It was kind of it interesting journey for that through words, yuppie yo, so went down It was your point where you guys kind of your tapped out It felt like you know, you are selling out or any of that well It was No, it was, I think, whip. It was like the double edged sword, for see echoes the first couple albums or is back back in the seventies record. Companies made so much money and they sold so many records here and there put out anything they wanted and they could sell it yeah. So.

they would sign bans like debo and warner. Brothers would go. Oh you know, we have captain b part have while men fisher and of a terrible gap, but our course we do madonna and parents, but we are asking in air and m- and we were just looked out, is like you know, tat I just thought of us as well, lumber not losing any money random way. They are always in the black, their careful with their they budget there, no money and and dont charges very much and they do all their own graphics and their own our work. We don't have to do anything form so um, well. They were kind of like that, but they didn't care. They didn't pay. Attention had more freedom than most then, once once whip it came out and there was a hit record that changed reading because then it was like they were peering around corners. They show up unannounced it rehearsed rules and go hey. How are you guys doing man? You got another had come on I'll write you locked into something there. I really they'll do whatever you guys. Wanna do just

and we're thinking. Well, we didn't do women on purpose had just was yet. We were writing right, the time you, and so it put this other pressure in this other energy on it that that I think it kind of became the beginning of us gone, this isn't what we thought it was gonna be right. we were feeling like we're. Not an art movement were like were now we are justa. I hit machine we're just like on this ban that that stumbled andorra record. We it a few more wreckage after that. But you know, as I come here, we got to this point where we had done like six or seven elms, warner brothers and, and it was the same thing you write twelve songs, even her some you go recall them. You make a film for one or two other, yet you are put together alive show you design the staging the costumes limiting. Then you go to and then a year later you bright, twelve, more songs and

somewhere after we left warner brothers and signed with enigma records. Enigma went bankrupt and, and in this place where we were like a suspended animation, a friend of mine, ask me if I would scores tv show form, and I said I could try now I'd like to try out, and so he I got to write this song. I was with him and who is reubens Paul rubens, I pee wees playhouse theme song and we had a lot of fun doing it. We got Cindy lauper to sing and there was a crazy fight between her manager and Paul's manager at those recording session, and it was- all kind of weird and funny and then and then they sent me tape on a monday I wrote, twelve songs were music on tuesday wednesday I recorded at thursday to put it physically in the mail and send it to you.

Work and then friday they dropped it into the show and saturday we watched on tv and on Monday I got another tape and it started all over again and it was Instead of a year between getting be creative and right tool, songs right! I got to do it every week- and I said, sign me up for the sire- I was totally fascinated with it and I could do things I could make musical jokes about friends of mine like David byrne or something but something from psycho chicken and egg in something india or I'd I'd something that had a little bit of a devoting sorely. You can cut if you knew what you're listening for anna and then I found out, subliminal messages, a hot just then knowing their lower. Are you got here too? I found out tat could put him in tv commercials, but he would know it generally would stop you. I mean funny ones like for you not for the product. Well,

I put in subliminal messages like I think my purse commercial I had I did was why and punch there's a there was a I'm solo near the end when due to do produce purdue- and I went I underneath the drums, so I just want sugar is bad for you and I I remember going to daily in associates. towards and Bob caselli was my engineering. We ended up having a long career together. Doing films and tv shows together after that, but worse, in this meeting with the average see and the director of the film and everything- and am I I'm a really about gray a liar here, so it's like we get, the stiff gets closer and closer the point where it's going to play it, and I just turn bright red and bob sally looks over me like we're. Gonna get in trouble, we're not going to get paid and it goes. Sugar is bad.

and there's this guy, some daily associates, tapping his pen and they're all just kind of bob in their heads and when it's over yeah. Hawaiian punch hits you and all the right places and they all high five each other and we're just look at Babylon. Just look at each other and he's gone. How did you get away with it, and so then we started doing it on purpose, could hear it audibly. Well, it's like if you're not Listening for you're, not where I may not You may not go wait a second area and its anti. it's like it's not like. You're gonna go play at twenty times in a row, but you can hear it on tv euro area what we heard it clearly knew it was area and dumb. We did about Antonov thirty. fifty of those maybe commercial, with things like we, commercials where, like maybe they're beer like tat your mutations carefully or be like your ancestors or be different or question authority thirty, we know we figure something and it would ever have to do with how you, how

who truly were to whatever it was. They were selling brac. We did about I'd, say probably fifty commercials like that. Civil wars of before somebody called me up. Who was reddit area on a spot, and I know here do I know what you did he says take that out any, we are told the client, and so we just so bob sally activities. For so doing he took them yeah took whatever the message was on that commercial out in and we, here. We still did it now and then on different things. You know, we'd be fine things to put it in any good, whoever yourself, we were fuck yeah that was making it like all yet again made a kind of subversive right is, I think, you're still honouring them the add the agenda diva well cause yeah cause our art. thing, was always your like here: making it into the belly of the beast yet seen how strong the concept was if it could survive or not

so it is a pity we was really your first far away for fort format, for while it was my first for way, yes into It introduces ski unto scoring yes, and you didn't sort of, although I was doing drawing up right like for art, our lives shows the area there would be stir mental pieces that would subway from ones. You know but one set up to another, but I like that. The idea that you didn't have to do twelve songs they get strung out on the road get no exhausted. Disillusioned before you could start creating get em for somebody like you, you whose composed, we drawing and taking pictures that feed That thing was at least engaging your creativity on a daily basis. Yes, it was definitely

and it was fresh at the time and I didn't know where the limits were so I loved it. You know, while you're learning on the job right, yeah in and out we're going to go, and maybe I'm going to get to do the next to kill mocking bird or something you know, maybe rug or rubber well, that's in went winter yeah, but but that that was I mean on some level, though don't don't you I mean say that with a mild bit of disdain by, but I mean least animated at least entertaining children is a sort of a beautiful thing you can we take that away a year is no way to get cynical about that. That's true, and you know, the thing is with kids is there they are There less formulated, formulated, I kind of music they wanna hear. So it's like that's what I learned from paris place. I could I could mash together plug and seeing music, whether with a punk, pogo song with them. chinese instruments,

yeah, they pray, love it and yeah that their kids Roy always kind. I bring it on whatever it is. You know in and with russia I did a lot of sampling. Oh my voice to make they sound or to make for an hour. I made no different instruments, it didn't really exist and and and then regrets did this other thing, they did a feature. I think we did three features together, but the first feature I got an eighty peace orchestra, and so I broke through the cat twenty two of well, you ve, never scored for an orchestra. So you can't score our film with an orchestra so. I did all these smaller films, like was Anderson things in and you were with him at the beginning right and so, why do all these things do you could have a small group regrets was the first movie I got to use a big, full orchestras and that was conical as exciting. That was, as as pretty

interesting to to get to write for that. None to hear the music like that cause you're always for television you're, always writing where there's no budget, so you're using a synthesizer make an orchestra also yandah. It's a big difference with western anderson now when you score film like when you are you there? Are you the music to read Or do you just do the original music on his movies you choose, the songs is well in that kind of stuff was shut, chooses the sauna, and he he's very hands on everything. The fact that he can't play every single instrument he renamed how my cues everything piece of music I rarely renamed but but but he's the guy that, like I remember ten of bombs, I walk through the house with him and were upstairs they're gonna film, that danny's looking at the ceiling and something's bothering them, and it's in the room were where the kids slept.

bedroom vehicles, and he goes up any pay over the ceiling on a paints. The painting is repainted where the kids had done graffiti on the walk he said, yeah that our work wasn't, that didn't look like what they would really drawn the law, like you know, right every little thing, my other he he was aware of it and he he felt tat stuff is all important. I'm really loved him for the noise, meticulous worthy of framing out. I mean like thing in every shot is on that. our level on a plate level, everything has to be there so work with him, there's that meticulous with the music to yeah and he and we got along really well. He liked being able to hang out studio. I was right in the end, yeah and then you add, you've had to you know you've done like four or five of his movies and like you've had this huge career and soundtracks, and it's like pretty amazing sounds like you like the busyness.

I do I do and this the book your exhibition? I didn't see the whole show, but I feel, like I saw one of the sound sculptures it was adding a glow grow. It's been filmed a number of times and it's been on tour in about six museums right. I know I saw it somewhere is pretty fascinating, though you there's a number of those. Now I like building instruments. I found, and actually is Wes Anderson movie that that made that happen. He was we voted for moonrise kingdom and dumb didn't, have any sound on it and was just footage of kids running through of woods and thereby It's flying in the wind was blowing the trees in it, but that was because they were just shooting at them above they, they weren't, recording anything. So it was silent, but, as you saw this movement in this shot- and so I collect- as a century, gm music instruments and sound makers

and I have about a hundred and fifty bird calls and re elected through the years- and so I started playing some along with the picture and then I lost interest in the movie and I just wanted to write music for bird calls and I started cause. I I I was like wow, you could program, you know if you record it, on the tape I'd never done that before other than just one track as a sound effect for something. But I realize yeah? They have their own notes, and you you have this kind of depend on which, when you use you have certain notes that you can repeat- and it becomes like progressive and becomes melodic at the same time- and I was fastened with, but It was hard writing music for like fifty of a radio, because when you do get fifty people in the room, that's expensive. Dna say: ok, here's what the hell! You read the music and an employee it. So I found this

I repaired um calliope s, forum, amusement parks, and I asked him if, like the thing that they Oh the air, through for the calliope, because I have a calliope and I said: could you hook those air hoses up to burg, causing why I'd be no problem at all and we started started, doing someone as we did him. We were ass. Well, some of em, some of the bird calls like leather pouches, with a little things. Yet tat the air hand, so little bo, peep, beeper area rubber tubes yeah, there's like that? Look like rubber gun shows that there is little brass pieces at the end that we shake it. It sounds like a flock of quail awhile and and I support these ones- you need they need to shake or these ones you need TAT any go. I could do that. That's a little mechanism. We started designing mechanisms, and so we made machine that the place about fifty some bird calls and

and I started writing music for it and I could write it on a keyboard then cause I I was using many to control them, but they are all played acoustically they're, not right there, not just sam than the applicant, and so it made me think about music in a different way to write music for these things that it was became so liberating because I'd spent so many years so many decades, writing music that to have something where the word to answer doesn't have the same parameters. Error is all the of an orchestra or of a synthesizer or of any instrument of any instrument like it was a new. It was a new terrain and it was ours, is like finding a new kind of pay. to worry. I never use before the Jews in the movie while there is a movie, that's that they're asking if they can be worst movie to use it for west as movie. That was just the inspiration for yeah. It was just it just made me that actually I did play stuff in his

film, I dont think I used the bird call on it, but I I played some of this stuff at the camp with bottom. In the four graffiti, like I love the postcards of the drawings. I love these. I don't know what you call it. I guess you call them new instruments that are there. were cast runes orchestrion. They do, one with the with flutes or whistles or priorities are all organ pipes. Vienna by one would bills, actually lower rattoon doorbells and they saw sounds really great attack of different kinds, and but the photography was sort of fascinating to make. As I just like a guest a question is there. The device of the meudon photography is using the same side twice. I guess who was at the nine, it was at reliable too. You know your condition. Did you that you're inspired at all by your vision, you know. I bet I became interested in symmetry yeah- probably

the same time, I got glasses mingoes like right now, part of how I correct my my I have myopia extreme myopia. I can read, but I can read. You know, like your small line above your name on that poster bacteria, but but entrench the trade off is then I'm looking into it adorn are. Basically I right, I'm a fish eye right learns earlier and I im used to ignoring the fact that when I go like this, I'm bending the corners of the walls on both sides and in in this part of my vision, they're, bending the What wouldn't half down here when I go between this and this here, and I'm just used to looking enough I wish I wanna be a kind of right. hence my whole life and some somehow soon three kind of fit into that. You know it's like boats. Musically

the idea of of arm of of scales, goebbels, was at the same time, I was doing those images I was work on it was life aquatic an end. Another, was Anderson he on the movie before that it was a royal tanner. Moms near there was seen that he really that he liked the music for were were gaeta angelic, our walking through central park, and it's kind of a It's a scheme, where he's being the lease kind of an a whole he has been in the whole film is kind of like a real should itself. Of promoting and taking advantage everybody, but he's been really nice to her cat is trying to get on her good side in areas like being complimentary weed and cheese and join at, even though she has a new boyfriend. She still like she's in why did he not being a jerk here and

so there was a piece of music. There was written for that and was kept. Referring to that it is, you know, went in this movie now: life aquatic went on when I murray bill Murray is talking about his boat. you know he's so proud of his boat and we're going to a cut away an end want to ITALY, to rome to see this. This sound stagey was working at a sinner cheat. I think it's and there was a giant big life size, Woot cut in half he hadn't and that it was like there were all these different rooms and people are doing things in it needed this. It was a camera sweep through the whole thing, and he says I wanna have music. That sounds like that music with where, where their walking, in the park. I want to have something like that for the boat, and so I wrote like three or four pieces form and he's like no not that I wrote him another one eagle, not that

and I'd been working on these on these symmetrical mutations, and so I just took the shoot me four seeing that he liked in central park I played it backwards. I just held it up to a mere and I played a backwards and then I recorded it form and so I literally just played like if you put em you know like. Like the corn and put it in a mirror and ended. This, as I can with the same on both sides going the other way. Yeah yeah. I play it for me to patch it. One is awesome. He loved it might even tell em all after I've recorded at that yeah what had happened and then that then, that has at secret sort of subversive connection to the other film yeah and if put the two sheets music together on an off it's in there or not, but somewhere. I have I put him together and you can see that it's like it looks like it just a merry image, mirror image that fascinating. Anyone out, and I love the art and I love the while the

again it was a great talk, any a man, the same sir, if you'll get HU, I, like you're on your place out here. It's very its looks like it's packed with all sorts of information. The outcome did buy it. I look there's a Larry book sitting right here, only a biography. I got some of the older Ginsburg poetry books from city lights. Over there on it's nice yeah? You know it's. Just a eurostar people send stuff to you right. Sometimes year from a star, but I'm a guy's talks on a microphone, so I mean some people think, again the other paddles and things maybe we'll find your paddle from earthquakes thanks my thank you. while there are quite a light by give real artist a real artist, and it's always good to talk too, to real artists. A true original marked mothers, but

and again go to deputy a path that get on the mailing list for for an opportunity for deals around our our new book waiting for the punch- and you know it. You know, try to fight the good fight. Live life, don't get to psychically pummeled by a cultural momentum that is malignant and hopefully not terminal former lives, no guitar. hotel room