« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 813 - Griffin Dunne / Bill Burr

2017-05-21 | 🔗
Griffin Dunne caught the acting bug at a young age and had early success with movies like American Werewolf in London and After Hours. But tragedy struck when his career was ascendant and his whole family channeled grief into activism. Griffin tells Marc about that journey, as well as the moment he finally felt comfortable in show business. Plus, Bill Burr stops by because the new season of 'F is for Family' is coming out, but actually he's all worked up about drums.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
All right. Let's do this, how are you what the fuckers, what the fuck bodies, what the fuck and ears what the fuck is stand is what is happening a mark mare- and this is my pod gas w tee. Welcome to it. Just I use on the shoulder griffin done, is here he's are now. I love dick that tear that show that gmos always doing the one. I talked about Kevin bacon. And special guest bill bird. bill burs going to be here in a few minutes, because he knew a new season f for family, the animated netflix thing that starting up- may thirtieth, but isn't it nice? It's a thing and andean, obviously, most year I think, will understand but tat now that The president is four nine days I really had this,
I didn't grow up this way? But I really had the feeling I think so we're feeling of relief it. If you have like this shitty horrible, dad or step dad any any goes out of town on a business trip through their sort of like who. May we got a few days a few days of of somewhat relief from from Chicago and who great time shooting another episode of easy? What swamp it was me, Mikhail, awakens, jane atoms It was, it was pretty cool. was pretty it was pretty great. I've. Never really worked with Mikhail she's been on the show here, but it was, it was pretty yeah, it was fun, it was some local chicago actors. It was great end. I'm in Chicago and some you know that Michael. Draws a little high number need better and have been on the pills and not enough
work in an accusation had time to go the fuckin doctor, but but it's it's interesting, that slippery slope because I'm in Chicago yeah, you know I get Lou malnourished pizza and then Joe Swanberg likes to go out for these dinners, and the plays in the hotel was good in the by the end. By the end, I'm like a meat and steaks and fucking just you know it's it's just weird. You know, In certain people's minds that unite, I'd like to live a relatively on time Naturally I don't know what outside circumstances could dare bring that, to an abrupt close for many maybe all of us who knows I'd times, but but like this, the swope from my guy, you know it's like a they don't have stands mean I can eat or date and then it's just a slippery slope from your doctor's dinner. They don't know, thing, I mean I'm, not goin crazy. I'm just is just for a week and then you're right from there to you know. There's there you know, I mean things get get get
get hazy in the belief that you believe what you want to believe that oh accommodate your own fucking needs at that particular moment. It just depends what brains gone. Maybe maybe there is an anti christ. Maybe there's some validity this end times prophecy. Ah, you know it's it'll all be okay, it'll be okay, fuck, it I'm eating some ice cream. It just that it's a bree swell there. You know what I'm saying. Do you know what I'm saying so right now, my body. Bill burned me talk about his new seas. I have an f for family on netflix premieres may twentieth. He stopped by. I always like talking to bill. This is member. Congratulations on nia child! Oh thanks, I don't I don't. I think I said that in at the club viable
Excuse me once I believe, as you walk away, you said, good luck with that thing. Yeah I swear to god and I just laughed. I love comedians. I thought that was funny as hell, because I didn't take that as an insult. Just like you don't know how to we don't ought to be in that moment. Well, I don't have them guy. You know, and I was never I avoided. It somehow and I'm not, I don't know I wasn't trying to be cynical, but I can only be based on my own experience and how I came out there. You go. You got me. I think that's actually a very big you don't you evolved react, May I know I obviously want you. I hope it is an amazing. Yes, it is every cliche did do talk about a much now
sage, because it's just been awesome. So there's really no reason to or you don't want you're not looking. I actually what I've more been making fun of his other parents who talk about how difficult it is yeah now look. Obviously, if you broken your twenties and you have a kid at that- yeah that's going to be difficult, but the bottom line is we've been having babies and then daddy dave caves, and it was Alana was that was when it was hard to hear that bit is basically some woman laying on a rock he had given birth, with no drugs right as you're fighting off a pterodactyl via and now you're in a house or an apartment where you can control the weather and if there's a lot of books, you can read and there's different devices and things, and I Perrier, however, single moms and all that type of Sophia Allah titanate not have to work that that's obviously hard. But I'm talking about, like you know,. White women who are married and they're living in nice houses who, every day at four o'clock you know only two classes and then you're, not an alcoholic. You know those people, they go to a cheesecake factory, there's a trolley at the mall where they go to yeah, like they they're they're. Alright, no,
like the level that they can play it. I can't listen to that. I can't listen to them complaining right right. As you drive off often some sixty thousand dollar su v, with some nasa level car seat for your kid yeah yeah just trying to get the kid to the to the sitter, so you can go to Hell. You have no idea just how tiring shut up it's so how this daughter right, she's a little over three month Andy, you, that's what my pride dad moment I have is numerous people have said how chill relaxed and happy she is, and I swear to god- do like a joke. Like I come home, I don't like, like I'm a big fan of tom per year on year, like a dyke that guy's of is his ability, like. I watch them on dances with stars and he has to deal with some lunatics on there and he has this ability to be there, but not be their bodies. There sure he does
give a shit, but he does and he just it's like tea is in this zen minds I go in there might like. I just thinking that guy would come in smiling and you know no matter what happened. They'd be like. Oh, it's great I'll, be right back after this. He has the that is- and I'm not shitting on the guy. It's an incredible skill, a boston guy right. Then he start in Boston, even more impressive that he grew up in that angry soil and he can come out of that and it's just like. that's the guy. I saw one of big it. Just roles off is back now she's, my wife watches that show, and there was just somebody clearly who, after every dance, to get a twelve picture movie deal right rather than just killing the dance rice standing there like a human being. There she's like did you do knows this shit, this stuff right now, this crazy over the top stuff that was hard to watch forty years ago.
Let me just add that our ok, I guess I didn't mean that shirt. Are I barber where I want to make you a year? We get the fuck off me fuckin lunatic. Isn't it people saw you dance. You ruin in and out like, I would have done that then I would have looked like the asshole. That is why you're not hosting that show yes that's what I told you when I am holding a show and I come home, which is I pretend that I am not a complete lunatic, I've already worked it out the first time when I'm on I snap in front of earlier and she's able to communicate that that's what happened. I'm just gonna to a blogger. You right this is just planning. That is something vague, for calling me out. I've been waiting for this moment. Yet now, I'm I'm I'm workin on this area. You gotta help me out cause. You know, you know, you're learning not write a bike like daddy's learn how to do this. So I come so I'm not not approachable. right. She can look at me in the moment of anger. You know flippin out of
I will bring up. You know, updating my iphone royal, all syria, often we had at worst dear I angry about. I got in preparing for this already that it hasn't happened, but when she's able to understand and talk and everything, you know you're going to do something a angry inappropriate cause. I know myself yet. Well, that's good! myself and I am hard wired like dude I walk around at six you to get up to with ten, like my resting, like Heaven rate day. I'm like five and a half year halfway there. Yet more than half way they are so I've been meditating. I've been tried, you have, I can get it down to like a three month. My wife already knows now, because you have unmeditated lately and that actually bug you been meditating yeah had his echo, it's it's good, but like with the classic thing where that is
app that you lose ahead of their heads. Headspace yeah, have you been using headspace, yet what is sure is like a hacky thing, but they sent it to me, and you know I've been talking. I've been talking about it on stage to my my the one time I had the experience of of meditating successfully, but I digress. No success when all you have to do is try and just trying and just peeing that's what they do and that's the kind of thing you guys like you mean we're wired here? It just yeah see how you grit your teeth. As I'm talking to you right now. I don't even like your version of that voice. Well, that's that's! That's the hardest thing about headspace is, as you start to get relaxed, and the dude keeps talking right. You want to be like. Will you shut the fuck up and they're just lays up, but you have to just kaveh be like oh, this is just like I mean why my having this reaction to this guy,
politico by right. You just gotta, let it you don't, hang onto it because the problem mark, don't you see with the person you're sitting across from the us? I have two emotions are not angry and angry. What about said europe? If, when I am sad, it gives rise to counter it I'm literally one trick pony, add immediately put through the filter. Is me we put through the transformer and turned in anger, but wait, but so tell me about meditation practice? Will you trying to do? every day yeah, but I like five minutes ten, what yeah I've gotten up to like twenty and like this, this thing like this I over twenty years ago I started meditating here and just out of pure ignorance, yeah. I was able Kind of get to this place where italy felt you know, as you were just imagining young, your youth, diaphragm
sickly, breathing in and out yeah, all of a sudden. If you feel like you're floating it feels like your stomach is, like you know, nine miles like yeah. It feels like it's across the room here. It was amazing, so then had a body experience sort of yes? So then I felt like oh I have this down. So then it Michael I just need to do this this this this and then I'm I'm up here again and now I can't do it, then it becomes frustrating and then it becomes like. I didn't do it good. I didn't do it as well as in the lab myself up yeah and in its it's a it's challenging, finding it. So friggin challenging but like the bottom line, is even if I don't get it, point which is most of the times when I'm I kind of have like that. Fuzzy fail in between the years of like I just kind of like kind of you know, ejected everything. mayors ordered isolated, doesn't build up that possess a thing if it the fact that my after me just doing it for two months, I stop. For a month, my wife, hotel after three weeks she goes yemen meditating lately nicole, said Bob
You know yeah yeah. She knows me that well but my way we mean I got a right. You're right I haven't she goes. I can tell you in all regions So you know she's right and I really talk about. Dare you know me, Parliament will write a Y know what I'll do I'll get angry money thrown back in the day when you had your yeah you just you could decide, and I want to update it right and you can keep the phone forever right. Take pride. Yes, I do. I still got the four until got so slow and I decided I don't want to school brick siena. You couldn't do anything, those development because I'd I dont, do shit on it, but talk and text, so we will so wouldn't wooden fill up right. I mean I was here, emails and stop burying their heads base up. Well now, so now is now the new thing here. Is you, if you don't updated, then all of a sudden your text coming like half today, they forced me to do it. So you fill up the phone so there you then turn it in and then they sell to some kinda third world country they just they can never have enough and it just this summer
to keep you buy in it as we like. Well, that's the one. That's capitalism, So maybe you should work towards that. Stand? Nobody does this options sure know what happened to stuff. That lasted a lifetime. That's the big question, repairman disappeared and they became that thing where people people is stuck in this. instead of like, while you know it's gonna, be cheap, but a buy a new one right on the old one right, a degree planned obsolescence is, is a horrible thing? There's nothing! You don't have you can't believe in any products anymore now and then AL ends up in the fucking ocean or in a landfill. You have a swirling you're, the one who told me about the swirling iron island of garbage. Yet you know what it is so one of the driving forces to for me real, I'm getting much better at this shit is getting control of my anger. Issues is assessed, the only thing my wife has on mere you know it's a big fuckin thing, but if I could eliminate those moments, the level the playing field Dennis just like,
What is the problem of making a great living? I got all this free time, I'm kill in it as a dad. Here. You know I always tell I always tell our beautifully she is and how much I love you. I mean if I just You know wooden stab, my laptop with the fiery get their achilles heel right. You want that moment where she's got nothin. When she comes out you, you ve got nothing. What an imperfect. Where do you get everything's good. So, like I said, I've gone mexico for days with the buddies with the fellas. What are you to say what he wants? So the new season of ep for family therapists for family? Yes, sir, it's happening. We think you foundation to see how I will take you do that year and then it comes out may thirtieth than if it gets the amount of stars. Comes up, whatever netflix is doing down another one, yeah added the writers who starts up in june for tat, workshop ye but you know what a fortunately I work with people. I work with our fuckin heinrich
those guys, are good guy. I don't know your writers by another production cut, I what might price the weight. My price from the simpsons is hilarious. This just such a nice guy he's just a great guy thing. You know Dave Richardson all these guys that we work over there everybody is: is it in room to work in it's a lot, a ball breakin, none of eight none of the ego, yakking order shed any out he's just sort of shit known each other end, and you know the table reads: have fun. Who do you got two voices over there this year? same as we have. We got a lord dern does, though, the voice so far susan and got just in long. We got SAM Rockwell got more collins. Does so many she so funny from mad tv. I remember her. She kills it hayley reinhard. Do I forget, which
oh- she was on her she's a singer. She was on one of those shows and she came in. She does the voice a little bill and that's one of the hardest things. is to have a little boy voice for you know, the all strawberry really annoying pierre she's got that raspy things he sounds like. She sounds like that. She does such a great job. Debbie dairy, bury David kirchner. Just just Monster monster later I learned watching seinfeld, but he was like eight surrounded myself with the you're, the best town I could get, and people that I felt like I could get along with an that's what we ve been doing, so they made proper me up yeah and by voices are fine, people have fun doing because he s got a lot more. You know that when you get into that and you can just keep doing a bunch of different versions, is nothing at stake. There's no film, there's no crew,
you're just a guy in a battle lord afford before anybody's, drawn anything here when they're going to draw to what you did. That's when it's the freest but with each version of the wall start club. An answer you so you gotta make sure you there yeah, do you want me, do you do you actually do have like radio play? First boy? Are you if you do that worried? You know it happens, you know what works, what doesn't and then. Ah then, you go into the booth, you record the episode and then they tape, then the listen to the episode you take the best takes and you split together the audio and then you send it out and then the guys in ottawa big jump. They are they animate it. So then it comes back and it's really in the rough form right so and then this is, you know all the work starts coming in where it's just like it's not like a lot of the stuff that you got. You do on your show. It's like okay
we'd be sitting here in this person right there yeah. They don't know that, so they just start putting people in the scene. So if it's likewise frank in the kitchen, he should be. You know written down on the stool say they got a redraw that and are you don't have a movies are more when he says this word it's weird, then it becomes. I why this is so much work and then with each one. Is it more drawn is more layers to it and it becomes more locked in and then it gets to the point. We are also get right. The lock. The thing is now, if if a line isn't working, you have to come up with a line. That's the same! Monosyllable jolla ass, the maverick moving, so it's definitely creatively. A challenge and this no, there's no way. I could do it if I wasn't working people- and I gotta tell you you know. Netflix gives great notes the great now it states that it makes sense, and you know the people that I work with over. There are actually call yeah street people actually clawing I've? How now with them at comedy festivals, that there are great hang and I feel like you know,
I really, you know, hit the lottery, I'm trying not to mess this thing up. So now is this kid going to age you're going to stay in the same world? No! No! What what it is! It's kind of cool! It's like every every season is basically a semester of school. Okay, maybe like a season, I think, is we're going to win. We do like winter, then it's in a fall and like we started last year we were like in the false here. I think if we get do hollow wean and all of that, and indeed christmas and now this year, we're doing like sort of we jumped ahead a little bit. But it's the wintertime is a little bit of snow on the ground and do you know Kevin's getting more into his band bills? Getting you know gets a paper who wants to try out for hockey and- and you know just like stuff that either I did of my brother's data people down the street- did and you know, frank lost his job on the last one. So now he's hunting for a job, so you know I just wanted to have them be stand alone. Episodes look just like the a the simpsons era and it was netflix idea to serialize it and at first I was,
I don't want to do that and then it took the writing to a whole other level right where everything had to be connected, and it's just like I mean the show wouldn't have been. You know I don't think half the show that it is if it wasn't serialized. So once again that goes back to netflix, given good note, so I'm really thankful that they said that, because my dumb, so was like who wants to see that then that we started right now I'll wait a minute! This is all this is kind of amazing right. So, what's great man, congratulations and how how's, the drumming common. Oh, it's got good, I sold I sold all my bottom fan void. I that dino show me you got dean sound, avoid. Ghek has dean's danes the best Somebody bought it and I just finally realized you know. I had that night Nineteen, seventy green sparkle, ludwig kit, twenty six inch based romp fourteen inch rack and than sixteen eighteen. I had now the super fabrics snare. I had a rogers high hat. I had the pasty
those that are using all the same size and guess what I sounded like what it for all that and that I was just like just from doing stand up. I was like I'm literally trying to do somebody else's act right now. Right, that's when did the epiphany We hit me as I came home with you know. You have a picture, john bonham, like near the drum kitten shit? I just one day I just pictured what, if John bonham, somehow back to life, for whatever reason came over to my house. I came. I am a big fan, come on check out my drunk it. I think when, if he sighed it would a weird in almaty what is slowly backed out of the room, unlike some single white female shit. That's when you start to walk down that road, that you're playing shit, that other people play can play easily, but like. Why does sound so much better than when I do it with where I've lived, my entire dressmaking off right yeah do the same thing: we're qatar! You find your thing and you just sit in it and you know you're not going to open it up until somebody shows you something sometimes,
little things like if I go to court in a brain, Jimmy Vienna will always come in Show me a few weeks and I'll be holy shit. I that's how you do that and I dont do it at home when he shows me one I'll work, the shit out of it out just a little bit of new information, you, I saw a whole new world yeah I made I have such like. I'm such a obvious fan boy of farm of the musicians that can sit down the wetland at their instrument and and play in the moment what their feeling I and it's in its flown out of the way. A comic is rifts on stay right, like you know, I I've had a lot of great like comedy music conversations with dave and the the the overlap of the two art forms. Is it it's this? It's the same thing having a craft in place to do what you want, I do yeah it's yet out what you want to get this. Those dramas that you're going to go see who are going to you know, live with the band are going to play at the exact same way. Right, and I remember used to love those guys when I was a kid when I go to the hair metal cancer,
and then I will get upset when the guy changed the solo right leg, you didn't play a right. Until now. I realize, like he probably played it, that one way that one time that one containing the one ass I said, but that's the way to do it. The way he did at that time is this. Like now reason why that solo sounded so great was that's how he fell. that moment and that's the way came out and then, like you know, art is. Recreating what you already created right, there's an art form to add. I'm cover bans are amazing, but, like I dont want to live in that part of art on that, and I became john bottoms. His single white female and I I I occasionally a panic attack like as I dreamed, of owning that kit here and I got to play it if the roxy on sunset and it sounded flocking using and all that, but it just it it to me it's stupid it'd be like if you went out to a club and you had the eddie van Halen guitar sure it's anybody's a musician and the crowds give the guy. What are you gonna play eruption now like you? Why don't you just?
to any then hail and was a huge influence on me and it's like you, not going to have your own voice like I think I would be a snob fucking musician, and if I saw that I would give the guy like like a minute to impress me then I will I will go to the bar. I would walk out. What's he weighed point I like by you? It's also realizing that sometimes we take for granted the work we put into what we did, because we just in amity choice. We were on those stages, do in that shit and they are finally get to a place for you. I am not a fan and I can say whatever the fuck I want, if you don't go well done matter and get out of it, and now I tend t, take it to another sort of form which is me dick or drums, and then air and it put that shit together? She can sort of surprise yourself now. When I was a moment. He would show me this this tony williams,
drum solo that he does. He goes just watch this guy right now he's completely in the moment. He goes watch this right now. He plays this thing on the snare and then tries to mimic it on the bass drum, and he goes in completely eat shit here and he does it in front of a live crowd and he is like dead at that that, whatever the fuck it doesn't, he goes cricket global and it just fucks up on the bass drum, and you see me continue Play just makes his face of uclaf that fuckin work. and it's just like and it blew my mind is like this is like a comedian. Trying to joke and a bombs. Then you just make fun of yourself and then he just kept going. There were- and I was just like why is this the same way? This comedians who, like word for word right, there's stuff out here and it's just like. I is open with this and goes to this, and it goes to that and that- and they all did that at some yes yeah, and that is an art for them to do that, but I didn't realize that when there was guys taking drum solos, they were also doing that yet like when they had this all worked out. I just thought they would just like I some of them do, but some
I feel you reach a higher plane of like there. They felt something they started playing. and then that made him go to the rack tom and then that made him go over here and all other like. That's like that, like I just really so much easier to do that as a comedian, because it's like you can talk and since you were a baby here yeah. So it's like you. We are always doing this, but for them would like that's a late to learn a whole new fuckin language, and then they can speak on that instrument as fast as I can here talking to you, Ethiopia, that's to me is like that's. What keeps me comin back watching all those drums it was guitar videos and I swear to god I'll literally watch somebody play a trumpet if they can fucking kill it. You know what's funny is I I try to like I'm trying to do this with comedians, but I can do more music, as I just look like if this person's just trying to be a pop band yeah, I'm looking at it like that No, it's a good thing that trying to hit on was great was great yet, but everybody spoken word for
Jimi hendrix the same fucking better. If your name and shit that everybody agrees, yeah yeah is great yeah, you just got to put people into context. Yeah, that's one of the veneto good talking to you it's always a good time at at DA. You know this was like the perfect time. It's like a quarter to twelve. I know I can cruise home yeah no nowhere in the night and you don't gotta go far now I close by I absolute always great thank you body, the birds, so griffin done it's done will be here in a second, and I think I think my entire house like salmon. It's weird I've got a event coming out here into the garage. It doesn't really work by had them build an air conditioner alignment,
got the system put in years ago to just run out to the growth of the actual venting is outside getting heated up by the sun, so basically comes in heat. But if I cook anything in the house, it just infuses the garage with the worst of that smell whatever's cook, It seems to pull out the worst of it and dump it right here in the garage, so there's of a fine, Salmon missed happening in here, so griffin done he's been a lot and many of you remember after hours, great movie, american werewolf in london, but he's doing amazing job on this new series. I love dick on amazon with Kevin bacon but death. Is always good to see. Griffin done he's been good to see someone you haven't seen in a while green at off I'd, madame a few years, many years ago, but he's doing well and It was a real, a real privilege, tat to sit out if in this is me and griffin done chatting, chow adding as we do here in the garage
see you around the year. I was at the top of the club how many store really during the medicine rain yeah, and I was doing a researching ago. I had a deal at warners to play a stand up comic and I was developing the story, so I will go there a lot yeah, but sam was always there. He was always screaming my name whenever he saw me was very exciting and yeah he'll do the yeah yeah yeah yeah made me feel very welcome, and that was a very loaded welcome. That was always a price to pay for that welcomes to lily and I'd, say: yeah yeah and then I went around and I to a club called sir it's a lot in memphis a really. what are we doing? That was what I had the studio. You know it was like. Research, though, is like let's go to that one. I love the name to Memphis interesting yeah. Well it sir laughs, a lot was,
first appeal and then Memphis was just the gravy right, but like what happened to that project that you know yet another undeveloped, go out and deal yeah, but like what? What was the angle The angle was a the. The story has been told many times sense of aid struggling comic theory. I hears what grand idea you know find in europe, fire at noon and just the the unglamorous life of being on. You know on the road and driving yourself from gig to gig. All that matters is to stand up and the rest is just dirty half. It was so dirty. It was well dirty, and I stayed in the motels with the with the guys and chicks and hookers disease with the condos. Did you do comedy? Condos are all hotel there's. These were motels three ere, you dig out in a house where you
the taste in all at once, exhilarating and ugly, but I got the clap as if that negotiating point. It creates no, I didn't know you guys, and I didn't really want to get the hype it was. That was all you had to worry about. Yeah, that's right, my biggest available back when, when, when dd had a cute name that, oh you got the clap just go to the doc for the clap year before that it was the vapors like I do you hear me that here do I don't? I live in your right, you like it'd fall on new york and new york, but I grew up out here. You did. How did that work out away? What was your were your parents, together of my parents, and my my parents moved from new york here to here when I was about two years old why my dad was a got a job as a television executive, oh and live television right and then he came out urine and started a company called Forster Charles,
why a david, seven hundred million a year on every an incredible, a gig young for four stars star out as the studio for your dad was from here the reality I used from mom waiter, originally from connecticut. You use it. You know work in new york and live television. I said nay came out here and about fifty nine and loves his place. and he's a movie producer and in I started off on television and became a movie producer, so you grew up in the business of very much cause. get on top of everything else was also an incredible sh moser, social idea and that's how I e a you ve. Never that was always him. Yes, yes, I me was, he would give parties exhausting my mother s, it you know once awake, they went out six nights awake and this is of the sixties, Seventy, so hollywood is still like spectacular. Well, you know all townie, it's it's very small, but it is. I know what it's gonna. What were you going ahead? It's him
They know where do I go which, but which thing you know Dennis hopper right there in your wall about rock their world, and I know it for a start to be pre. Sixty nine, yes, so saying hit the that period. They Dr Doolittle is the way of the future and yeah yeah musicals musicals. Everybody was musical and I need another oklahoma. You know since I've become, I was so young and you know it was like you know from six to but nine I wish I knew as much about movies then, as I do now, because I mean I'd love to George Stevens would be house all the time. I love to talk about giant right no, william weiler Billy wild. They were there now react. Just hang out just hanging out. He could do. credible crowd of one of the greatest filmmakers in hall. It's funny. Can I talk to guys. You know who, like oddly
One who gave me the biggest insight into that europe into the shift was at beg. junior. Oh her eyes, he was running around no more talk about it all the time oh yeah, yeah yeah, he's up. He's older than me, but but the overlap as rise is right. This is doubtless a character actor bite, but he also was like kind of a wandering soul and was due in the park. circuit in early so and yet no, he was totally on the scene yeah. You know everybody was an actor o, absolutely no and anna much in demanding delay because he was so fucking funny yeah. I guess it that shriek of funny, He has a story about finding himself out spawn rach while yeah I haven't heard that yeah like he. I don't think he met charlie you're hung out with man's in, but he went out there for somethin to pick something up to do something here. Well, and you forget that it was like will. Charley was around gaily
Take one of his girls. You won't mind rights exactly right. The always brings a good journey through the firing at sea. We was yeah yeah, that's right! That was eight or even gone wrong. Again, always those people in this town? Man is a legacy that service the darker need. Yeah. I know well I'm not on their mailing list now at an early hour anymore. Will now it's all very insulated. Guess, there's too much social access it's all year, the icy there's a lot of it: things that have to be signed for anything to transact absolutely were so like grow? Abu was a you and you had what you had a brother and a sister get a brother and a sister and and you're all out here living the life. You got a pool, you got a pool on the hills, nowhere in the flat and our reality. in beverly hills, beverly, hills and you a house that it looks like gum. It looked like a house you'd see in like girl, greenwich connecticut are willing or more hartford connecticut, really, which is where my dad
from that way, but the house knows you're Diana one of these. These guys. like like mayflower family, tie now. No, no, irish irish, Grandfather came over famine, ok, twelve years old, right and not money connecticut? No, no! No! It all came from him. Those an extraordinary man who became is like a hurry, you're out your figure. How young guy gaze at eleven years only he was sweeping out the grocery store and then, within ten years he bought it. Yeah and, that into buying a bank ended up getting knighted by the night of Malta from the pope and Rules are named after him and hartford nokia. He would lend he was like a much beloved you know why I came over illiterate and then he became also a great. You know, passionate about literature. I end would read to his children. You know yeats, ah, all the shakespearian, I hope
amazing story, yeah just any any just infused. My particular my uncle and aunt father with his love for literature. Your uncle, it became the writer. You done you anything in your aunt, jane, didion grech. Then, let's get it for you quite a life on both coast. I didn't do anything. Funny is one one was like the zenith, decline of the sixties with my parents and then hollywood and in hollywood and and then d with John John, they were like in the: u, no hot spot of the seventies. With this sort of literature in literature and an filmmakers these past six years, Making a documentary by really have just about finish really a hell of a passion project, it sure is well worth it we're. So how are you putting together? Well, we started off with kickstarter
and then got more money since then, and now I m, you know, you're doing gonna come coming to a close have you been interviewing her over the last six years are: using a lot of archives and using a lot of our kind of calves, appearances and nationality to cabin, she never did not. You wouldn't do in talk, show stuff so much as as, but she did a lot of press for. John and theirs it there's a lot of archival stuff and a lot of stuff we dug up and but also you know at the centre of it is an interview that I did with her over a period of a few days. Yet some years ago and and what what? What did you find out about her that you didn't know what was revealed to you in terms of the relevance importance of your aunt joan didion? Well, a number of things, but but but one of them is how important How? How important and deep impression the landscape of california
and of sacramento and and that sort of homestead, more quality and work ethic lives within her aching. It's made her survived this long. And she's, outlived, oliver friends and not you know her husband and and and she basically, she wrote when she was at vogue at the age of like twenty one or twenty two, a piece called on self respect than years became sort of off. I don't know a guide book for how to live your life and how to live. How to be able to sleep in your own bet, ya: how to live without shame and and to be a woman and to be a woman here- and it is particularly embraced by the the other women readers yeah and she really hasn't changed at all, it's the same It's the same person all the way through. Despite all the things that that life has dealt her, the, I think it's her innate western sensibility
that this chapter in the room longer than anybody else, that's good any, and I imagine that you must enjoy the time that you know that involved in debt. You have you hanging around sheet sheet, but also what also keeps her most alive is is work, but so did you like it? When did you go back to new york and start the day, a white man? got the acting bug. Prettier like a living entity. Well, yeah, I am more. I have the new york bug. I I remember going to new york and when I was about eight or nine- and I just knew I was going to live here yeah I live there yeah, I just I just loved the energy of the city and my dad had a funny sense of humor or dark sense of humor, and you know he were standing streets,
water and the sun and people were so brusque and rushing around yeah. You know what we went there, because they were researching panic in needle park, yeah, which my dad produced and John John wrote and so are needle park was like all junkies, and I thought this was him even then I that what glamorous yeah, but it was all city, and so, unlike the claim, look of beverly hills and we are crossing the street and this like old lady, you know needed helpin my dad watch me just take her elbow and and help her across the street and goes you know, you're your way to play. As time goes, did you get her purse you're supposed to get her per? and I dunno- I just loved it in that planted the seed you like this is both darkness and goodness sheds right eye and make this work the darkness I can bring them together. Yeah yeah yeah because, like
I imagine in a way that time is the kid the other the darkness didn't seem. as tangible and menacing, though arguably is probably more salary. There was an underline that, right as I as I got older it's all. I can see the of what was really going there behind yet area like it? So when you, Did your family move back to new york? They never. I have only one year, always a true yet well. What happened was I moved to new york and now, in the seventies, I went well went when I was eighteen after very unsuccessful. in high school was what being kicked out and then I moved to new york. Yeah where'd you get kicked out of high school pot like right now, it'd be given an award for it, but I really yards adult yeah, like I said, stupid. Joint you're outta here in ninety seventy and seventy four- oh, my god,
yeah now anyway, so so so I came to a sum of money and, and then While I was in new york, you know a lot of misfortune happened, self inflicted misfortune happened to my dad terms of losing all of his money in it is life when it came, are real. And he has sold all his belongings any move to Oregon how'd. You get much more quickly than bottom to fell out. Now. There are lots of bush, helped lots of enemies. He he alienated alot of people. and he was washed up as they say right out, and is Oregon to move to Oregon only cause a car broke down in front of this motel, and so anyway he lived there and and then afterwards, after he written a book, he moved
york. So then he was the next person to go and I lived down very great jarring. So you're, like you know, eighteen or nineteen and all of a sudden like everything he grew up in, has just gone. well in my arm. My mom, who have you know my mama's comfortable but by bad, was good goddamn, although there are harassed everything volume of social cake since she left him at the peak she'd he also had a most of the money too yeah the heat. You know he was in a what did she do she's? she now no longer lives use, He was the daughter of a cow, rancher and, and the ranching family did did well right. She didn't really work. She got. She had m s for most of her life, and so she had a she spent, the last half of her life in a wheelchair and eventually, bed and incredibly strong beautiful
you got some tough genes, yeah our ranchers, an iron, oh shit. I know I am very proud of that. I use anyway. Then then he moved to new york and you know started over lived in an apartment smaller than I had, and I was away to a basic charlie's beefsteak jar. Oh yeah, oh yeah, all you can eat celebre, yeah, rigorous, close. Yet will when he came back, we were close when he moved to new york out. He lived in it gee live down the street for me, and you know when I moved to new york, I had this. Like the boxer kind of of If I wanted a divorce on seventh avenue to know my name, you know, and I wanted to romanticize the decadent absolutely you know the bukovsky characters and I want them to have griffin and all that stuff and yeah. So am I it only been living there about. The two months were outdoor cafe in the village and lake right, guines inherent ethically domini dominic and you know very neck neck and I
revenge, character, damon run UNESCO, I've been alive here for two years. How do you know these people and he just went the rooms was legendary. You know. As a storyteller. How and so his so he gets over. Oh yeah is his rehabilitation. Was remarkable aid was really rising out of the age and dates over the whole at rest of life. Oh always know, while here, which are part was really under par but you know, he became a writer and a very successful and and then my aunt and uncle move, so we ended up in new york right, but I was I was the first move and when did the acting start? The acting started a few years after I arrived did you train, which the neighbourhood playhouse? That was your place and what was it a class situation? It was like a pretty much of a school you, oh yes ma.
and dancing, ballet dancers, word dance belt. There was a teacher, who was studied under Martha, graham yeah. You took a very very seriously and I had a very hard time taking modern dance very very seriously. I looked so ridiculous. Entirely worry there too dancer. Their data was like to get an all round. Oh yeah rang our united think the aim, fencing shirt, Norton very important, yet movement and so I would dumb, but I would just make up dance moves on the spot. Autobiographical dance. Thank you very much, a meme, a memoir of movement, more aware of my fleet. They should have appreciated that. I you would have thought who is your acting teacher sandford meissner started this school mad or around. He was just on the final final year of his life. He actually
His larynx removed, so we had one of those machines. Oh wow solid made a graph idea while we're at it, and it was like oh shit, I'm just a year or two late, because I didn't get to just the class, but I had no sympathy at all for his problems. I was like yeah. I got a very solid. I bet I could win. I can't what timing, he's dying about a half hour bridge, but you weren't able to glean anything from him, although he was pretty much done done so and I had a wonderful teacher afterwards with the meissner method or not a total minor, mrs meissner method, which is which is basically you in your imagination, pretend you don't need to dig in and look at your dead, wife and write. You know write anti acid yeah. He make it up. Asshole yeah exactly right and pretend it's cold yeah so, and this guy named pretty caravan was my acting teacher. Yet huge inspiration would now like Sometimes when I talked actors now I got I'm curious because the meissner thing miser exercise
Is this a sort of legendary that the reputation exactly- and you know- and I've talked about this on the show? But what's interesting is like? Are there things because now with I love dick, which I watched him. I think five of them a well. A, u and cabinet are very different actors, I think, but Do you use from that time like you, because it seems to me when I talked to actors. There are things it happened in the first year that they learned how to act that have sort of ingrained the of the as part of your process. So when you do it, what do you do? First get well it all goes back to the simplest thing. I dunno why I spent thousands of dollars cause you got a duty to teach you to to learn. How to all you'd have to do, is listen and be present yeah and boom you're there. And then you know you you arc. Forming a new, I think argument, there are three the end yeah you you, you kind of sea where this character this job.
We're going right, no matter how long the peace at year end, but you don't play the end right just lay the moment, so the trick is getting present listening and and still making choices. I imagined Do the choice thing I do the choice and then and then hopefully, I've. You know that credible thing on this on on the series? Was you make a choice than cheek? joe ago or andrea that are tracked, you're good to go. Okay, you made the choice. Now, let's try something different or something. I love different, different different ride, different things, there's no mistake there's no we're not in a hurry. Yeah, you know, have fun yet at doesn't my favorite directions The funny thing about you is that, like I hadn't seen you on screen in awhile yeah- and you know my you know, my knowledge of you for the yo was sort of initially. You know pounding and with american werewolf in london and then after hours and ngos in the tube big griffin done moves.
No, you ve done a million movies, but as a coalition government right now so bright, Is it what I always like when I haven't seen someone in a while? Is that you don't? You have a very specific aggravated intensive theirs. It there's a way, use your shit that that hasn't changed, he's right, no safer miser, didn't teach me there was a guy, like my theory, is then the same guy freaking out in both those other every movie. If you have the opportunity, I only know how to forget one way, but that's good, because that type of aid to me is appealing, as eight that gives me hope, then you know you. You are fundamentally dealing with your own emotions, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, that's that's all I got yet so when did you start working as an actor
Why can write me a note at meal took me while it would, you need the full programme at the neighbourhood play and I did a year and then a steady, ubuntu haagen you dave yeah, who is like terrifying and brilliant? I thought someone else who did that is well. What was her method? Her message was, well with the way I got into the class with by sheer lying yeah- and I know you did- I did an audition from catcher in the rye I forgot every word when I got up there- and I just talked like Holden caulfield about it and told a story about being on sony and coming up just made it up about phony. She goes yet yes, yeah yeah, and but it was like me doing hold it and she loved it. Oh darling, darling, you're, wonderful and she could tell I was a little out of my league, all the other bureau. Everybody else was working actress, but her thing was: if she liked what you did yeah, she would terrify you. She would scream at you know ha she could she cared so much and go.
you're thinking when you did this and the worst thing that could happen would be. If you did your scene and you Oh darling, that's wonderful, ok, whose naxos soon care anymore and I was ever has given where you wanted her to yell from her chair and when I heard a yet you wanted to get her out of that. Chair come over a mock you in front of the whole lot right, because that meant something acting teacher and chair yeah. Absolutely not it lets you lie at again. Students would, and these were professional actors- people like vomit before they did their scene You know there was. I think there was a period it was referred. fashionable in enacting circles for the teacher to break you down. I guess in preparation for how tough life will be outside of classier, but but that was the the kind of ev class, I know everybody was studying, had a teacher that would just like fuck with her head.
You can only destroy the ego, robbing massive talent and sadness. Exactly and udo wasn't wasn't like that. Yes, it was a different thing, but I was thinking gum. You know I. I haven't taken a class in a while, but people. I know who do there's a much more everybody at much softer upon now ramblings when you do a lot of directing yes, I do. I need to do a lot of sort of community, yo, oriented theatre, stuff, writing You are in a position to educate. Absolutely I tried to inner support away yeah right end and you I don't subscribed to that terror school of correcting and in making- people you know screaming and yelling make making people afraid. Well, I think there was a period there were not, unlike you know, poster what was it the group theatre and then the the method and then meissner and then ooda and then stroudsburg and then you know all these, like kind of like the the teachers themselves became these
they start absolutely radical star, absolutely an airline. You wanted to be abused by them exactly like a cult. Vienna to one in new york. I can remember. The guy's name is: first name was mark using old guy when he was a minor he was that generation. I wish I could remember his name. but he was of that ilk where you know just this older man who sat in a chair with all these young people around and he waited for him to yell at you yeah. Well, it was an honor yelled at me just watching you like one after another, you sort of laying childlike grown ups. You know in moving towards here's that was absolutely there. Yet they took you there yeah, and I dont know to what end I that's what I mean to and- and I wish I had a little movie of these abusive teachers, what they're like when they get home. You know in their tiny little apartments near you know, while they they're one of them are failures right. Well, exactly exactly that's why all that rage comes out
and they take out on their other students here. But people learn things I think the guys it the people that develop the ideas like it seems like that that the movement of you know whatever created was the group theatre writing to you yet with Harold clurman yeah, like the the guys who pulled stanislavski from russia into a sort of socialist idea, yeah that crew yeah, that effort? Oh daddy, oh daddy and- and you know just in john garfield air and still adler right. These that louder want each really does anyone heard did to study with her for a summer york northern an outlier, because when it came, I hear she has a. She is west coast method cheap when she came out here. She do stand out here and they go back to new york and when she got excited about something- and this is in a rate she's in our aid, yeah. I got really excited about some fishing grabber blouse and poland,
You see your tips like this for like one second, and then she pull a back up and she goes that's acting it'll. I just see that it is good things that he was in a credible teacher. I loved her, so ok working with the with uda and then how what do you sell anyway? I I get I I I get this I get this play. It's called the white album and I got some attention. from it, yeah sidebar when it went on to a bigger production, for whatever reason, bia Kevin bacon within the same play, and not me my god, you when I first heard of you too, that we first really see because the EU is in new york and you guys were contemporaries for we started this time. We started like within minutes of each other s. You guys talk about r, J, edgar and anyway- go to a.
Meant white album about today was by guy named David rimmer, who sadly just passed away and about a year- is about four kids in the sixties. Added to these two, when these two albums kind of came out, around the same time a beach boys album, but at pet sounds the white house and how it affected these two group of kids had he yet lives for kids, a beautiful, beautiful play, So anyway I get sent to this audition. I meet guy named John Landis, and we talk about fifteen minutes and says I only got one question for you: cost republic and I said no look. I call- and I figured well that It is about a guy trap now later this year and then do my phone rings and it goes. I performed at an armed guard, is coming outside. I was going to hand you a script, and what's your real name call me right back and I read it and it's
oil from london and I loved it, and I was so hoping to play jack. I love that part. So much. And I call him because you get what you, because we want to play jack and know what yes, yes, he goes. I gotta beginner unless phobic I to me, no I'm not, and he met, of course, because my head was going to be in plaster right for the plaster cast as breathe out at two little straw right in my notes, so reading, no nothing he'd, never seen me you'd, never met. Me ah gave it to me for whatever reason in those fifteen minutes he saw the part and then next day, an arm in england and I'm an I'm shooting this amazing movie. That was the first movie, that ever did well in that, like that, with such a great movie, it was They had, no idea how great it was it was it was. It was ridiculous like menacing and
find the same? Yeah was like a really other movies have been given credit for it, but it really was the first movie to combine horror and humor. Yet so you're really end you're like your right away or do you're somewhere else. You doing big make up. I mean like six hours and make up you know I- and I must say I love rick baker. I hated that damn. oh really. Well, it was a different. They they do differently now, but glued it on your face and they have to keep at it with shrank and pull upon you yeah, yeah, and how it had to be touched upon in and then the worst part take it off. It took like an hour than to take it off right and it hurt, and so then that movie was successful. It was not it you're sure during our became successful when you know viziers came in and then people rediscovered it it was like people were annoyed. Will chris where particular were annoyed. How dare humor fight
place in the horror genre really have like who, like pauline caille across the board, but you can read it all across the board I remember the names of the above, we finns and can be a whoever was doing it at the time that was their beef, though the asking a yacht those authority tat, an highbrow mother fire on the of joan rope whore. They want to protect the horrors, Johnny Roselli, very deep learning, tat point. No one was even giving a shit about and then of course then, like ghostbusters will come out and they'll go. This is brilliant, though they combine the error. I, like my fuckin asshole, you wouldn't was right there at ten, but within was a real disappointment. You know I mean what I didn't use my first movie exciting. I was devastated yeah I, but but you know all that time. I was because I was not. Working very much as an actor media and I really love working. I actually been producing. You know my while with maybe that shot the chance of giving myself apart and Amy Robinson my
putting partner for many years and and mark mad cows in name your company triple play productions. I was your dad helping out. No, no! You ve still. He was still slamming it really, but no advice be careful son the whole kill you actually quite easy. It was it was. It was gonna terrifying to to kind of get into the business closer. Knowing that this is, this is the same. is that right destroyed. Him was a little different because they ve gotten over that hump of this set the sick weights. studies in there now is a different view of the different feel the dns yea and all I can to stuff. But a. But you know there are still some overlap, but you know what you know Bob assuming rise and all those people that became his arch enemy were still in power. They made the transition. Yeah Dave survived, react. He made the godfather
Nobody asked me stay right where you that's right and if so, you d produced a film but his own calculations. A letter and had a small part in that year. Actually, that was that's how I got my first act and job that was from via yeah. By giving myself the acting job and then american world came after that. Ok and then what else did you produce baby? It's you, the other day sell joy sales movie, Michael bauhaus shouted. Let us remember that there was a good, though, is this we moving yeah yeah, I'm gonna happen. Events in spanish- I know it's been directing and I haven't been in touch with them for a while. He still you still pals, with my paramount met dillon,
and I why you're about him from from them, like this mark guys get into directing. Yes, that's where we go yeah, and yet here we may see a lot of sense that you know, actors of course become directors. You know you just know how to I I've. I've always noticed that many of the directors I've I've worked with and you know have spoken to. They talk passionately about every aspect, but the talking to the actor scares and the most or It is the forum most foreign to them really wish. I had you, I hadn't heard from Walter hill- oh god yeah. I love him. He said some straight for me. Sort of like this idea that dead dead people have that directors. Now guiding the actor. It's not true. I mean the really what what we were hiring someone to do, a job exactly you know, and it is sort of like a kind of it didn't blow my mind, but due to hear it in that sort of nuts and bolts saying it's over poor sets why you hire them. This idea that these great actors are
I did by directors is, is really for the most part, a misgiving It's like you know you hi, you cast somebody rise. They do the job directors not want to see a dull I'd actor go. Tell me what to do. It's gonna be a nightmare yeah and an inner woody allen. Loretta fifteen pay. See anyone's due to do it. One take right, no direction, and you just better. Have you shit to get it right? Have you work with him? I never have met their time, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a resurrections in the area is a total resurrection. Griffin done the time again, the forum bag if I'm around griffith right, is how exactly I look at it again he's getting another shot. Oh my god! Please don't let me fuck this one yeah well so after hours, without was like you know. I guess you know I mean
It's no mystery. I dunno how much you talk about it, but he you know that tragic in malawi. Your sister must have been like a horrendous time in terms of like your career and personal and everything else. Yet was terrible, obviously a terrible thing, but it was. It was a you know something and it was a a it came at a time of them professionally a lot of very of good fortune and you're. Just starting out starting in everything, and- and I was oh and my mother, also at that time was was was was, was quite ill. With m s, so it was something of contest lot of therapy about was. Was you know that their terrible feeling of of having something good happen, something
He loves something terrible has happened and and their happening at the same time, and you see you can't enjoy one thing and you feel bad. If, do and you you know tat. It was a everybody knew about it, it was why it wasn't like some. Your personal inner family tragedy was at all event that that was international new and it was and something that I refuse to talk about and in certain not! Unless it was, you know family we are friends, but you know that my father was an end my mother, they both took this this tragedy and and and and made it a source of power. You know my father became and mother became an advocate for victims, rights. It led to my father becoming journalist, writing about murder trial,
and he was in the oj guy and he was the only guy. He was the man, a man and his brothers guy, you, you know he covered. He cover dumb He covered all the big tro you! I can't imagine you know, no matter how public the the the the tragedy is, that the the sense of justice Not being served with clearly, you know they that it should have been There was no rages. You can't like what do you do with those feelings? In the happens, you know all the time it does his hand in that year that guy who murdered your sister me a walked away and lives in the world. That,
The only way I guess it, your parents in the family could reconcile that is to become active, that's right and end. You know they they put their. Might my mother's responsible for some nickel mercies law here, which is where you have to em the pearl. You think they didn't need a law, but that the parents of of whoever the criminal his has killed of yeah that if there are on parole they have to the family, no right at the killers out back on the streets. Again, you think right that that would be going over and over and over again I see the killer in the super You know and right an end, so they put energy and that my my energy I advocate level went into and continues to be, my passion. I've been involved for a long time, as is low gun, violence, prevention, gun control and I ve been working on what I am now with Brady I work with
the idea or that I've been them. You know just working with which was gone controls europe for a long time. Yet it's important not going to get any better, is not getting any better. It's getting where everything's going away it's one of those is yet another. You know the sidebar tragedy of it had an american culture in politics. You know no, it's mystifying to me why there's never any traction on it. It's powerful lobby! I guess it really is. They are formidable yeah and they're, just like he, he sometimes iced. I start to think that The way that capitalism has metastasized, in a requires, a turnover at any cost zone. Whether its guns are denying people health care. You know this system in its go that way you know just allows for. Will you know it is, as you said, a very powerful lobby in industry- and I was listening to your excellent interview- was obama
and you know he brought up how how gun sales go. After all, these are these mass shootings, knowing it I'd, say it's just that it's just a cash cow and they always is over this missing hanging over the dead gun. People. Is that Take him away. No one is no one ride with everything it just is. You know oh, how trump could put out something on a twitter and then because it's on twitter yeah, it's true, doesn't require realises it a movement in the whole world. Exactly any note, there's no background. There's no all about there's no nothin's based on truth. You know what what is happening to them. To our language near breakdown of of of what intention and you want to believe and analysed. Yo, always sort of like taking the time to process in source indiana.
It's it's very alarming. I dont know this. Will you know pass on degeneration generation because you know with people just be talking about nothing to each other and just making outrageous and then used use. You say something hateful to somebody But it's all been said so many times. You don't even feel the anger about it anymore. Yet there's no success and then you start losing your feelings of love and hate and yeah and it's just all words are just words that come back to just nor anything and everything. So media, like my belief, is that because the immediacy of platforms in everyone's access to your having a way to put their immediate feelings and reactions and hostility, or whatever out there, that the zero tolerance is what begins to It kind of fade away, we're all absolutely a road, that's the word yeah, but yeah, but, like you know, I am looking at. You know some of the the
things you ve done it like. I want I got after hours, but you know you ve never stopped working like you do you know you do movies that you know and maybe are questionable and quality is in decline. And but let's talk about after hours. First, I mean because that's odd little movie in iran, ok cause. I was sort of a film had in high school and came out. Why was in college? I guess eighty five, but I definitely in the film and it is definitely some sort of departure uniform precisely director just produce energy joy directed at yet amy and I produced it right. That was our third moby after baby. It's you who is an interesting movie for him because is really you know it was. It was a. It was a comedy photon and there was a lot of interesting elements or was sort of a journey. You know, like almost like a picturesque process of moving through these different lives but it was. It was menacing, yeah and no. In any event, you never got the sunset
was in a comedy, but here is definitely some things in their. That word has specific to the time. You know that suffer roseanne our cat net, all that stuff with the with the medication in birmingham all earns. So how did that come about? Well, the script was written by JO minion, who was a is basically his graduate film graduate thesis script and he he worked for a director, named John MC evasive, who brought the scriptures sundance. Yet not the festive over that, though the workshop that happens over the summer mac weber's it important filmmaking rising by the ira, experimental film, yeah, yeah and. anyway said my systems as these crazy script. And ass. My serbia, where his eye and so amy read it, couldn't picturing me in the role and call me
and- and she said to me- and I read it ask me such anxiety. I had to read it standing up with the script on the floor and turned the pages with my to just walk away: oh my god. Oh my god yeah. So we optioned a script right away. Amy had been an actress for scorsese and mean streets, and, and so she got the script to him, he was about to start she nothing would be less temptation of Christ. He was on the serious decline because Marty. Adjust done came a comedy. Which we all know is brilliant now, but it was a huge disaster then, and he was on bankable and he's about to start doing this movie. Aidan Quinn was going to play christ and they pulled the plug and so on the on his way back from morocco. Year of this r script is on the top.
this pile and we had to make it for a million and a half dollars. Nobody thought he could make a movie four million dollars or thought he was funny by the wagner, but we knew we knew differently, and so he said yeah I want to do it and we introduce Michael bauhaus who just passed away. We workin on big, It's you and he's also We are launching a lady worth knowing our duties, I D, be added and and and also responsible became, became a huge collaboration along collaboration with with Marty and a lot of the menacing in the tone you're talking about, is because of the camera angles there yeah and movement that that Michael Omari came up with and- and you know we had like I dunno thirty days- and all knights and I've got no grip guys to black. my windows in the apartment I was living in and you know I come home Real indy filmmaking o is real deal,
any new york, of course, soho you. They lie down the street. You know that Like you, I know, and I mean it was quite ass- a tone yeah and very menacing the end. You know a marty had the sub. He allergic to cigarettes smoked as mad is asthmatic end and we are shooting a scene where I dropped my knees and screamer the sky? What do you want with me? I'm only a word processor I just try to get laid and lists of lofts are all on all sides. All the lights are out, except for one year and we're, unlike the fourth take on. Why do you want from me, and this woman froze up love her window and gus shut up just shut the fuck up it without missing a beat. Marty goes till their lady put out a cigarette in it. That, like and catherine o hara yeah like it
we got right, Aragon, cavenaugh, heroin, terrifying. It was just like you What what I remember about that movies is those weird during that period in time, where you would find yourself in apartments with the women know anything about that note in high and also you know what the I remembered the part that killed me, because I read so much into it, but I dont of wits, good that you hurt. I have this thing that I do now. It seems with the with actors. Is that you know like their their arts parts of movies? That did stay with me for specific reasons, and I don't know if there's intent there and some actors won't tell me, even if they know did the weird secrets, and what did you mean in their right and I made a choice, but I'm not going to its habit twice by. the seem were you end up in a gay guys, apartment and and like it in your up against the wall and it's a brick wall and your ranting, and I thought to myself: that's a stand up.
Would you show like there's a brick wall and it'll, be my mind, I'm like that's there for a reason that there was a reference. Was it I didn't know where the loft was the loft. The brick wall came with a lofty and it was really aloft were that lie on apartment rather right, and I hadn't thought of that you'd, because it out, because I was doing calmly and I'm way our resources a brick wall, as this is actually a like. It's a refund comedy the guy. He's and it also waiting for a man who thought you know he was going to have romantic interlude and you're, just this straight guy with problems to an audience that could give a shit and I'm. Like that's a metaphor. You like it, you like I built into my mind video. I can leave it at that. No I'd like to re answer that question. You know when I was doing that yeah and I saw that wall yeah. I asked for the war by the way the marty I want
thinking to stand up. Canale ok gave every ricotta handed it throws highlander. I just gave you new part of public narrative. Thank you for that. What we were thinking really do not know if anyone picked up the echo case you do these, make these choices and maybe known, and we notice. Maybe they will it doesn't matter. You know it's part of my process right, so you keep working any like you. You know I now obviously producing, but is it? Is it's because you like to work yes, I mean I have that I have that little hamster heart good. If I'm not, if I'm not We'Re- and I get really worried about myself here. I get no good, I just up yeah and, and you know but but I I I also hate when I'm working on something- and I hate what I'm doing or I hate what the thing is right and and I remember once you haven't got
from after hours? You know year years ago, by not that many and I'm in toronto? and I'm doing a movie and I'm play either and android or martian, and I don't give a shit even though I don't even know what it s like this, this cat. How did this happen, I thought I did happen. I made some bad choices. I kind of what we were talking about be the air. I kind of. got away from you. I I I but also I had a very bad relationship with success. You know and then at the cost it sort of came. I couldn't I made some very destructive to wonder what it success duty, what it! What would well react? Well, it was also you know that thing we're talking about a hockey away. While we are here- and I made I just made- I made very bad acting choices. I also I also.
And anon. This is good or bad, but at a time where I probably had the high Visibility is an actor. I decided to become a producer and so running on empty. I went into from after hours. Instead of going under the next big movie yeah, I turned down some very good movies, nea I went to be behind the camera and help sidney limit make you know one of his better movies and I was that's amazing reigned at that you will he directed running on empty, like he's like that? That must happen. It was amazing. I learned all of it paid off. IRAN, because I became a director and I learned so much from sidney you weren't, because, like I watch dumb sidney were met, did the verdict and in you know, I've watched shed two or three times in the last couple years. You know come. back to it. You know what he did and I remember there is a risk there we aren t, castor, Paul, newman
I like that, but like to me he was one of the best. It was him what what did you learn from him? As a director I mean like you are loosing the thing yes uh. Well, as when I became a director, the the the the first feature I made was called addicted to love yet with meg ryan a have you brought rick and all of it set in one. when one loft ryan, what martin a wit, a sydney has to do, is get the exact dimensions and put it out on tape and he'd rehearsal, the actors and he get the props- that they're going to do and ah eddie rehearse for like a week Now, there's no time to do any of that stuff in there's no money in writing, but right I'm I had the money or warner's at it. and so I had a chance to take that technique and work with we work at all the problems with the script beforehand, so we got to the set. It was like completely familiar saved a lot of time. So
gates practical utilitarian kind of like you know. This is how you do it absolutely. I also I also learned he would nap. He would take a nap every for lunch break. He, wouldn't you wouldn't we just go lie down and that's why you know use- and I can is seventy seven you know, I mean, and he and yet done like super going like I twelve angry men than I network, yeah yeah, I mean the greatest my eyes. He had the most. This guy had more jumping of? Are you an anchor saw in my life? You know he did the pawnbroker made it now. You went through live television right through the greatest period and movies in our time during the seventies die. Day after day early afternoon I mean you know he, networks of gene printed, the city ike, oh my god, you know, and then you know toward the door and of his life. He made that incredible movie that what the devil knows yours
then, before the dominoes you're dead right, I'm that was is hard. Core is anything the calm brothers. Every day yeah, and he was well and was eighties when he did that yeah I mean Emine was he was extraordinary, so it What did I learn? I learned about preserving energy and inspiration and putting out it in the way talk to the actors on the way he loved his accurate made him feel so good about what they were doing and I heard him in the inner hersant yet So it was, I don't know those so now is worth the knot given that we have so up. That's what I mean is all choices I made then pay off later. We have to look at it that way, after certain point of view, because the time you don't you know every fucking done yeah. It's like that old thing. It's like a year where the things will work out the way they're supposed to it's like there's. No, that's bullshit like, but, as you get older, you realize there's really no way to look at yeah. You know everything happens for a reason. That's the other one. You can't think that way like you're going to have to you. Don't want to live, be bitter
absolutely yet because otherwise, I'm just going to track down the reason department and find a guy run didn't beat the shit out of him at the good. What did you that lie just made it up? I swear to. God grew out of my mouth you're. The reason depart. Up to no good, I ain't that five years is trying to fuck us every region, footing that ridiculous by, but so I tell me, what happened then, let's go back anyway and I now alien outfit saw then the alien up that men I start do I start to write a a script. I re short script and it's based on a party that my aunt and uncle gave in the sixties that, I was eleven years old and they, let me come to as a party to for tom, wolf and forbid, fire or known early really talking. This is candy colored electric
later to late ass, it ok had just come out and they were giving them a party, their house and hollywood hills, this sort of rumbling right. Bring her in rotting, villa kind of a thing. Janis joplin was gonna. Come to the party. I was insane about janis job of your, what a hose Levin, twelve, and- and so I fred it, and my John John Let me go and my mom was letting me go and it was a school night again leave so spreading what to wear, and what am I going to say to janice and what, if she finds out, I'm there with my mother and I'm never going to get to a motel and you're gonna be cool yeah revis, I oh, I had such confidence in in my charm, with aranjuez. Anyway, we get this party, and this I never get me janis and she knocked she came near. My mom took me home early anyway. I wrote a short story about this night or a short short script and
and the producer of the alien movie also had a deal for short films at showtime and took this on and gave me got me the money for it, and so the short moby and a cask there. You know wilma firemen and toby maguire and key, father, london, elliot, Gould and really, and an academy award nomination was a call duke of groove. Okay, and it was you know very autobiographical, and you know even you, some of the film in the documentary I'm making about john cause, janis enjoying orison and all the people that she interviewed over the years come up and so How about that that that I went to the reason department, I think, of our good. I think the animal from that guy gets no one for Baxter so you anyway, that turned that. Then I made a
get me out of the acting hope, because now I know I could throw myself into directing while there's a lot of reward of creativity from the ground up there absolutely and everything that I've been doing as a producer, I understood what how to apply it as a director everything I learned as an actor. He helped me in in in working with the actors and- and I I'd never felt so at home on a set in my life. It was like all of this everything made sense how it's great and the good feeling how it goes, he's got story. He should I worked with him and My show andy yeah he's one of the guys were you know you feel like this. is ongoing, even if you're not there, that he still telling it well really money go eat. You telling a story in this movie and about bob Dylan writing about a song running for nikko and any I cause. I've heard him tell stories, and I said, do that storytelling play on your data and it just tells his total bullshit story about bob Dylan.
I think, I'll, keep it with mine for niko yeah. I see I I you know I'd like to interview elliott. I you know it was weird being on set with them, because, like he'd really like there's a rise in yeah and he knows why happen. Yeah you're right, restrictive pen in mouth or whatever and yeah. You know I was a I I would grow on lots, studio lie and I live not far from twentyth century foxen. When your kid, when as kid and I remember wandering onto the one of the sets on on the fox lot and and I saw earlier gould doing a scene with James con. Ah sir, We want to go to exactly and they were so well elliot politically was so the bad behaviour was unbelievable and I was watching the young actor going
I hope I don't act like that, or is that what I'm supposed aconite when I get famous again, it was just like watching any too slow and shit down an exact if reading people and talking then getting angry- and it was like he's a totally different person now- but you know- but it was like him at yeah him at his highest and at his worst That was a that was an odd little movie, I'm really out there in February. But but the way I like a pre vaudeville entertainer revival yeah, so you Now you're directing theatre is well and you know I didn't write theater. I am just talk with movies. I acted in a play. A guy named howard, quarter, search and destroy here, and I did that that was on broadway later and then I was alex, but that was- and there was incredible and he was a brilliant brilliant play and marty produced the movie of it leah. Ah, I played the guy in an end beneficially intellectual marty. I oddly, through gun control.
he called me. He knows I was involved with that young wanted to yet another person who also involved and wanted to put us together and- and he also interviewed joan, and so we have that in common and it's interesting. How, like you know, I always in I still do like. Like I just know, my wife is not small but like its busy- and you know, people they know who have been around awhile and have all these relationships and know have been movies, are worked with all these people. There there's, I want to believe or baker to keep in touch, but no one is in touch with anybody ever to friends. yeah. It was my mind. You know it happened up this thing back to the to the olive, dick cavern and catherine yeah, I'm quite certain will be always be. in touch area, but I haven't had a feeling in a really long. Time is like that. Also that thing like when you just starting out you're, going occasion, a movie you're. Looking at the cruellest in your thinking, whom I can sleep with a worthy. Well, nobody, some,
sure that still goes on violence and and hygiene behind your by that way behind is so bright, but you know I bought a number one of the very first jobs I did also is it we're in poland, and it was during good, asked the strike all the actors became incredibly close and roseanne are category would eventually work with later on and an tom, Anti, who became a really close friend and an eli wallack? Wasn't it and eli wallack was watching us any was like obviously much older than everybody. have you got you how you guys all think you're gonna get to keep on time, for the rest of our lives, but I'm telling you once they say? Rapids our rebate energy marry you out here from each other again and we all, if you will gonna happen. I do not know that eventually, after about thirty movies, it does happen currency it up,
yeah no, I mean they did takes less than that of young rallied, but I think there are some there's some part of the experience of community on a set that is very genuine obsolete in Kansas. Because the one thing you forget, when you're on a status that everyone's gonna fuckin lives and they ve. in time away from that absolute. it's a fantasy. We are both in front of the cap and what happens on screen very well. That's why you know guys who are actors were married, beautiful actresses, young and they go and location ebner, break courts and they should get it's all true, its ultra liberal europe domain, the famous actor, if not the fact that, while I tell you I you know I I you know, I'm a fan of jigsaw away, and I you know, and and everybody in the cast is great and the world is unique- my my girlfriends a painter, so she sort of knows that
well yeah we're rival, artists who they've dug up for yeah, but it's like it's a real world that that that has it's own folly in it and it's own ridiculousness and and drama, and and- and it's never been seen before- certainly not in this way and you're doing a great job, and I and I think it's a it's an interesting and good shown. It's fun too sure is fun. Good. Talking to you, griffin, great talking to you tomorrow at griffin, gun, beautiful, beautiful talk, nice guy doing a great job on I love dick. You can watch out on amazon, and yeah. That's it. That's it for now is that ok with you and with my fucking pick, you guys go see that grateful dead movie said document or if your program, if you got a soft spot, in your heart, for the dead go, spend four hours and watch a movie. I dunno when it opens I'm going to stick my ear plug back in and play guitar, because one of the two things I like doing.
the other one right. I know the other one. I know you think it is no satan right right. the The
yeah, burma is,
Transcript generated on 2022-09-02.