« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 817 - Lesley Stahl / Demetri Martin

2017-06-04 | 🔗
Marc interviews an interviewer when Lesley Stahl spends 60 minutes in the garage. The veteran journalist tells Marc what it was like to cover Watergate, interview U.S. Presidents, report on the struggles of real people, confront the changing nature of journalism, and become a grandma. Also, Demetri Martin returns to talk about his new movie Dean and the new challenges he's facing with his standup.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
All right, let's do this. How are you what the fucker is, what the fuck buddies, what the buccaneers, what the fuck talk in what the fucker regan's what's happening? I mark marin. This is w t have my podcast. I am broadcasting day from a hotel room in The amazing metropolis that is new york city. I love new york city. I love being here for about three days. Come the fourth day I'm exhausted my feet hurt and I'm I'm paralyzed with how we My life remains even in a huge city. I come back to the same few blocks that I'm familiar with and I walk around them. I walk across the island to the most downtown and I eat the same places twice. I I it awfully hard on myself about not branching out
I did a little bit, but what's what? Let's talk about other things. First, today. On the show, I have a veteran journalist who, as we stall to talk about the the sort of arc of time in her career the tap into us and she started in being involved in the watergate investigations in and you're on. And reviewing and being a grandmother. What not had the opportunity to talk to her she's, an interviewer, I'm an interviewer. Why not interviewer right? Also dimitri art and stop by and and we had a great gray conversation I just a we'll talk would mean dmitri about his his new movie dean, which now playing he's in it. He wrote it. He directed at an end to meet you in I've, always known each other, but I'm not sure. I think that our relationship has evolved over time and this this time, that you're here right now that we talk, I really felt for the first time a sort of kindred spirit with the dude and I've known him I feel like since we were kids are since he was a kid since he stood
didn't he started a little after me, but I was always a little judge. Mental, as some of you know, I'm I want to do on occasion, but generally I move through it. Oh my god, I think there's somebody have Naked walking on the roof across the way out is at issue what's happening. Ok, I know that she has pants on I in new york city folks, new york city I'm high enough to see rooftops dmitri will be here in that woman is now going back into her penthouse apartment. So what have I been up to the last week shows were both pre recorded before I left or a press junket in london, england and now london, england, is back in the news. and it's horrible, and my heart goes out to the people. That too was people and also to the people of the uk and in an agenda ways a lot going on there. Terrorism, wise and politically. So so it's a tough time.
over there and I was there for three days. I was there in between these two horrible events in heading there. I was nervous and scare when I got there, I was astounded at did the sort of continuity of civil life that was going on england's a beautiful place, one in the beautiful city and in just last week last wednesday I was standing on one bridge in front of the tape hours, which is the one place. I I make sure I go when I'm in england, and looking at that london bridge, you know wondering if she get over there, because it sort of an astounding, a beautiful piece of architecture and engineering. That said around a long time, and now its place were something awful has happened again in england and in I terribly sorry,
I hear that but but being in in london it was a pretty amazing thing for the three days I was there and I was happy to see that, for the most part, people are or seem to be a continuing life in the face of terror, as we all are to some degree. in different forms or another, but tat I am in new york. I came to new york after london. My body clock is completely dysfunctional. It has no I what time it is, what date is, what time of day it is, but it's starting whoever lava as some you know. I came here to em to promote the new book waiting for the punch. We were here at book exponent book con eye on friday last. Friday. I was to host a one on one conversation, fur alive audience with senator out frank, and so are you into maya my podcast idea with outbreaks
I did it again by and it was was no great. It was a great time great experience. It's nice it out feels a little wiggle room in the funny area, these daisies the on a little more able to be, he's a little more grounded as a senator is doing a great stuff fighting the good in the year in the context of the: u S, government, an days great stories in that event went dead beautifully. It was interesting before when I got on stage. We are back in the green room and I got out talking about the grateful dad. Just hang out we're talking about our concert, experiences about the new grateful dead. humanity. That's that's a little longer than an actual grateful dead concert common in somewhere around four hours. But if you're at all prone to the if you have any of that, machinery in your head that locks in with the grateful dead that that movies. Definitely worth seeing and it's always
and get our senator frank in all lit up about the grateful dead, because Yola he'll just go on about it and it's definitely a place where he's not thinking about politics. he's, not thinking about what he's saying and he's just to excited about the music, and we did a little of that before we got onto the stage and we got onto the stage- and it was great, it was it's great to work with a guy on stage. Who knows how to be funny in a very specific way, is completely confident in that and it if you're outside with him senator yeah. I always loved him as a comedian and a comic mind and to sit on stage with them and give him the space to work. Yet work, as he's improvising was, was a real treat. Folks, that's what I'm trying to tell you it's over. It was a real treat and, in the event that the Brendan mcdonald myself did, we had several hundred people their got there free books and Brendan just drove the show set it up. Gamey contact wet me babble and then
all that around did a little q and ate it was great, is great, were actually a pretty good comedy came he's he's really maya, my best straight man brendan and no one, it was me better than that guy. So so that was that was fun. Got some uh got some good laughs got some. You got to talk about the book and about the show. Endeavouring get away covered, deputy ipod outcome to pre order waiting for the punch go. Do that we
the way about eight hundred the other other day and people, and then there was a signing got to meet. Somebody is glad different types of people coming up. People travelling people coming from newfoundland from ireland, from syracuse from new jersey from Florida coming up, some kids coming up to a high school students with their mothers with questions about podcasting how to start a pike. What effect there podcast is having on their high school community some people who were new to recovery. Thanking me tell me, they're they're doing it as some people just love the show. Families, people getting books with their boyfriends or girlfriends are kids. It was its humbling and exciting. The the reach this show and god dammit. I appreciate it. I appreciate in in this world that it seems to be coming at at the seams. I appreciate it appreciate that this means something
so I'm sitting in new york. I got Sarah with mania, we're doing the thing and it's been busy and I always get this this urge. This urge I feel, like I've got to go, do something you have got get something new into my head. I've got to go, see some stuff, I'm in new york. I gotta see some stuff I always get. This is to go to them, senecas years ago, when I was staying at a hotel right across my consent, or by coincidence I just walked over and saw symphony, and I was just amazed at the opera, the other, the abyss, I do that. So I I always come to new york. Uniform only got a few days and see what's going on at lincoln center, and I wanted to see jazz at the lincoln center right and there is a lincoln centre, jazz orchestra and its Marseilles is the manager and artistic director and they were doing something called world of monk, and that would be polonius monk. I, like my
but again, as some you know, I'm sort of a jazz novice them just starting to really you know. Listen to my brain was always. Why for it, but now I'm really getting into it antonin nerd way. Not, then that I know all the nuances are all the players, but I like listening to the music, it's it's relaxing and it takes me to a different place that is not beholden to words or hooks or or anything you just have to kind of kind of you just have to get in and it's like a pool, and you just gotta, you know, get used to the water and just float in it so weak. I bought some nice seats and we went up and we saw what turned out to be the last night of the world of monk. It was spectacular man we're at the rose theater. I dont know what to expect, but others than women again she's half naked she's taking garbage up. So I am not supposed to be welcomed, but I'm just working out the doesn't I'm not working, so
ass we went- and I didn't know what to expect, but I just wanted to sit in a space dedicated to are dedicated to music. Listen to some job. as have my mind, blown and it was. It was phenomena and you know it now with everything that goes on the world. Every time you end to retrain every time you go out into a public place every time in your theatre
It's party you in the in the back of your brain, if you're in a big city, it's like is this: where it happens, is this where it ends? This is where something horrible happens. Is this where the that the the terror happens? That's a real fear, it's a tangible fear, especially if you're in a big city and then you've gotta transat, that on top everything else, you have to sit down in a space and let go of that and the phenomenal thing truly phenomenal thing about jazz music is that is it. It is a fundamentally american musical framework that can carry and elevate any type of improvisation from anywhere in the world. It was truly a just an intersection. It was just such a an amazing testament to the creative
the human spirit, and there were just no words, no words except when Wynton would talk in between things just pure expression, just you know, right to to to the roots of jazz, but completely integrated what if it was just a fuckin astounding experience. and I sometimes you know I wonder about if the power you know he does do people have the power? Does art have the power? Does expression? Have the power to fight against the the the sort of like brutal consolidation of of of narrow minded thinking, and and it's like no, one act does but all acts together. All voices together, you know even in their sporadic places that you know just the elevation of of human creativity in the human spirit to to just continue to exist to push through like fuckin flowers. You know on a garbage dump, it's like guy little faith because
because it jazz man. So now we're gonna, go back to the garage and listened in on my conversation with Dmitri Martin, his new movie dean. Now playing he's in it. He wrote it. He directed it and dead. This was that really the best conversation I've ever had with the fella and had many- and I are you- I like him- ok, this is me in Dmitri. The truth is. I might have talked about this years ago. When I was here and now. Lately, I've turn every green room into therapy I go in and, unlike I want to dig deeper and up and I'm really trying as I love one liners, I love jokes, but you know I mean I want to talk about what I feel I want to talk about like below the next stuff here It's hard, it's hard. If this just now, if there's no, your head goes its hard get comedy out of that You say
You turn every green room into therapy like who are you talking to other comics or just other comics? Isn't even it's like comedy therapy, and you know what I mean it's not like. You need help with my life, I'm like yeah. You know I just want to dig deeper, want to connect in a different way with the audience rather than I feel like have to offer. Is you know my jokes, but it's not human is just like a ceiling. Oh you did in the movie. I won't I watch the whole movie. Oh thanks! I don't do that. You know it's funny I to know before, in the way of before I came over, I was like how did they send him? A screener because I knew I was saying yes, I'm trying to promote my movie and then I'm like. I, was ambivalent. I was like shit, I dunno if our march and will have this hudson, just didn't know each other well, but you've known me a long time. It's like oh boy! Here we go but like that's all you that's interspersed with you know, I could tell in the writing of the script that you know. There are some of your stocks. of writing, but also you, you put a lie. The comic art in it. I didn't tuning which- and I think that that you are able to go deep with
somehow. It's true I feel like I, I feel more entitled or something just a few little lines. Yeah, it's true but you're very simple to that, their, like your jokes but jokes, but this year they seem well this more emotional. Obviously, these cartoons in which are your cartoons or are they? theme- that's not yet a beat your say, that's true, It reminds me of a knock your hand wilson, his the other guy gross. grow yeager, otobu Is it possible, I think so you know I am to the new yorker stuff. I love the gary Larsen when I was growing up right, not a big reach, but I'm from jersey shore. So there was, I write to bookstores my mall here and I go to this one and they always had like force. I books- or I course I like that's the later. all the new yorker guys. Now I have books of Saul Steinberg and all these guys, which is great. I love that Xavier stuff in new yorker know why it like a fiction thing, the guy they cartoon. I invited me he emailed me beers four years ago,
hey, I'm a mire of your work. You know we're doing. Special issue, a cartoon issue, we feature new people come come to. The office is equal to run. My current. Some drawings here and then he just that. electra and rejected them, and I was like okay yeah. I was kind of a lecture you gotta get drawing you know that you're not good enough drawing and I rarely know yeah these kind of aren't funny enough and all that kind of stuff really yeah, and you know it's all subjective sure- is subject- definitely a subjective. Why thought like gum? how long did it take you to make them film dean long time? I started writing it. Six years ago right I've six years ago, and then I stopped, and I like fifty pages and I started writing again and then took while you're the financing and then actually shot it and it took a while to edit it cause. I was just trying to save it. I was just not be embarrassed by so took me like, I'm serious like we added at my house, and I would just like it from being really hopeful like colombia, make a movie to him. Oh shit, like I just want to be in bed
what did you say? You offensive vienna, so he shouted how long ago, three years you really most three years in certain areas. Are the film is not unlike the book that you're writing in the movie yeah end. I totally, and in fact I just I'm unpolished agree to. Let me do another book cartoons time on the fall here be because my book of stories was due at three extensions on that I was only like two months ago and I could I just is not done. I'm not good enough. The book you mean you, don't think you're gettin, yet stories, just I think, is its heart in life, but sometimes it's just the truth that some things just aren't good enough, and it's just to tell yourself I'm not good enough. I'm just I'm not good enough at writing fiction, while the I the problem. There is like the idea that hanging over used worst and also, I think that, if you're not, if soul thing is writing fiction like if you're, not writing stories all your long and when they give you the book. Tell you right now, I'm almost done. I've got enough for yeah right, you have to rights, Aris, it's a nightmare,
it's gotta, be a nightmare in his humbling I like to try to multitasking, hey, I'm a writer and I'm an actor its if you're not doing that. In all the time you get your ass handed to you it's hard. I'm sure you notice on train or write like I can occurred. Vomit yet like mid century style or like a story like fifteen twenty pages. So a couple them, unlike air, worked it out. You know I gotta in another. I'm just like is just not good enough. It's not a minimum where's by What's your editor say where's. That Just imagine you mean shouldering uncle Michel you. Just at home kick in your own ass, yes, and then I try and your wife reared over notoriety. Exactly you know it. I was a kid mike. I got to know once three and a half in the others ten months or so you can't wait on them. Yet these beche de MER and I have the fear- I have the just primordial earning fear. You know I'm afraid I can make money yes yom affair I never was, although, as alone will ask
I saw you and you know you you you're very selective, like I was sort of impressed with. Idea that I realized something, though, because when I think the last time we were together was at red rocks for them right for, though oddball fast and you're, like yeah I ve been doing. It is alright. What what? What have you been doing like you did a benefit, but do what do you do? Like you know, yeah seems like you're still kind of like a kick in round do and all these things but you're doing gigs, I'm doing gigs yeah, I'm trying to do This new, our I'm telling you it's as you can see, our machines have some trying to do a new hour. I have a bunch of one liners, but I'm of its having kids or something but like it feels I want to say pointless. I'm lost, I feel kind of law so that sometimes that's just wife yeah for sure. I am doing that. Well, isn't it funny with comedy where like for me, because I liked jokes and even like you said the drawings for me, it's like that's just what I wanted. That's like the track yeah! So guys, like you and I don't know,
just list them off people who are kind of more opening a vein up there yeah. I never didn't like that. It's just like it Didn't you act of what it s like aesthetically, like that's what I want, and now I gotta tell em older, like when you talk, doing set to work it out? Yet you are doing Well, that's what I've been doing late. Oh yeah, how's it going over bumpy. yeah, I saw I saw louis at meltdown like a month ago. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about the therapy thing assignment and he came when I was onstage. He know when someone's older, it's like the senior comes in you're, a freshman, the large louis waddle, yeah, yeah, yeah statesmen, loon yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah louis, the statesman with his glasses on your hands. I come off and louise their surprise. I'm like I just ate shit trained whatever at as like a ham trying to he's, like, care very. Unlike I'm, a woman he's been oh care, you gotta figure it out. Just is sick and be quiet for a while just try it.
It's gonna be quiet and it has been and is that people are kind of talking me out of it as your own jokes work like what're you doing here is your way of saying bigs. It's gonna be Quite a few people, because did that right, because no. He was primarily a joke and absurdest noise do been joke comedian yeah and at some point it was just like time to stop and open it up. It's what an air! That's what made him famous? How is your changed from this. That's good, my crowds very sweet crap they're, like him mildly disgruntled all ages has now fallen intelligent good tippers like he was in his fifties I got a pretty good mixed gender wise right. You get a lot of women, yeah yeah yeah I mean, and I get like all ages too. It's interesting. I have a certain demeanor. You feel ethically aggravated in your intellectually aggravated him or whatever. As to how I do and people who We from this know me pretty well, but it's uh, it's really kind of. Like I usually say it's, not a demographic, it's a disposition
and they feel very familiar to me and they know me in and if they are there for me, I kind of no them that's cool yeah. you know- and I do all right in some cities at united self, you tickets, so it is it! for a game that then just doing the clubs you play and how's your crowd hold on decent, I'm I have like certain sid. I do well right. I think seattle is a good one. From here you know, boss chicago new york, I kind of direct flights and pretty good moscow. But then I am it things up quickly for me and I'm I'm kind of still in theatres and then in certain markets and barely some kind of more comedy club I like clubs from we're going out his idea. Clubs are good cause you good for everything. If there, you know said emma there to see you, none of the exactly like I if I had my way and if I could do twenty five hundred cedars into a couple, shows a year exactly seriously and yet with kids. Now I just wanna be home, go anywhere wiper,
You even live here. Yeah, I'm like near westward veritable neighbourhood. If I were really what did you buy a house in westwood near there yeah? Oh my god, but it's nice. It's like a mid century thing where my wife does commercial interiors. So she like she made it I guess you class me up: it's nice sweet. So what What do you do? What are you just sit there trying to write? doodling like pretty much so you wrote this movie like the first draft was six years ago for dean a meme five years ago. Yeah. How old are you now? I'm gonna be forty four next month right, so I gay feel when he finally got around to doing it. That this is this guy's. Thirty five in the movie, oh yeah, I was like it I shall I sold my first script that ice. I saw the pigeon two thousand five of this movie now another like a concept thing to dream works may nobody knows like. Oh my god, I mean it I went to remove easy bulgaria and then, of course, one
turn around thing never got made in there. I sold another one to like sony, got paid, never made so detrimental screenplays, not ideas. I sold ideas within, I wrote the scream ass like they owned it and have only known so by the time This came round I was like. I just want to try to make a movie. So that's why it's no big concept, its grounded, emotional whatever, but it was heart. The budget was like under a million bucks. It was a twenty. Shoot. It was really really hard with great to see Kevin climb. Dear he's, gonna is greater and end mary steam bergen yeah. They were great good. I needed iter ino good actors, make it work better. You know you did the algerian. Therefore, for a bit with their cabin I die, I you know I went to small like I learn because
I got to the edit. I didn't have time to watch my performance and what the hell am I going to do. What's my re going to keep running back, we're going to play back seats in its sorry, I can't do it to Kevin Kline be like hold on buddy. I want to see how I did you know. Well, the thing is this week: it's one of those stories where you know it's a heavy story. Yeah and- and you know like I thought you cast a while- I thought like rory- was great yeah. He was, he was great. I loved maria. He was grey and I thought that the woman who played the the psycho for x cycle of random breeder breeder. What's she from she's in love too reverend sir. I think she was in love again after we shot this and now she's on. She has a show she stars in the show called good news or something like that. It's just something I just talked to Michael Higgins: yeah great news: that's it yeah I'll, get he's fine guy, but Nobody, like you know once when it started getting going like there was a you know, it was heavy and then I didn't know what was going to happen, and you know in your grief is, is is tricky but that stuff, you know between
You and your dad worked out really while the outcome like The third act was really yankees moving you now in, and it was hard not to to get emotional him to that end and also the stuff where they exist in this fragile place and that that scene with her there The last seen with with current we're with alien was right does not like we'll things from my real life for them. So I lost my dad actually, not my mom. When I was twenty here, he was forty six, so he went young nor my god. We are shocked. My mom was widowed of forty one. It was a shock to our family. I don't think we really recovered day the truth. Ties and new family got brother by your brother and sister yeah. really young were harting. Now We got kidney cancer. Oh yeah turns out my town in new jersey, toms river yeah. There was like a chemical plant, then they illegally buried toxic waste like just directly in the ground and drums like in the seventies or something real to all. These people died of kidney cancer, real yeah, my girlfriend in high school, her dad died,
at thirty nine of the same cancer than we had these neighbors they bread, labrador, retrievers like seven of their dogs died of kidney cancer from does drinking water. It was your class act, two was there anything I think there was actually I was in born to noble on the promenade and of two years ago. We I saw a book like in the health section or something he added Tom's river was my town huge book about the whole thing. and I almost bought it and I was like I'm just going to get upset like I kind of know. The story like you know, forget this. I don't want to but yeah a shock to our family, as you don't expect that mirror and then my mom got alzheimer's. When I had my comedy central series as eight years ago, some yards first started mia. She was diagnosed with early onset at fifty six cheese, so It has been four years now of the last I'd say for five years. She can't talk, she doesn't know who anybody is it's hard, it's horrible man, so
way of course it's like there's nothing new here, it's the first time filmmaker. Oh here's, my story, but it's fiction. Like you said, I put the drawings, so I do at least do. something cinematic with Larry. It's not reportage, it's not my actual lying, oh yeah, just what kind of my experience with grief and yeah how to do this data, I gotta tell you I don't I dont know how did I know, people that and they talk about that kind of stuff. On stage I dont know how to do it I just don't know how to I'm still drawn to just the jokes. I think like a it seems to me that like given that you know how how old were you when your father passed twenty yeah, I mean like something like you know: do you go to therapy? No I've never gone, but because, like you know, you have sort of like your personnel. He is pretty compartmentalized riah, so You know you you're. Obviously you know you ve, designed everything you do to manage feelings. You know what
we all do too yeah we'd be pretty good at it. Yeah, I'm not great at it yet so you might not have do you know what I mean you might not have this sort of like capacity at your at your you know at your fingertips, fingertips to come, kate. That way, I think that's true. I also think being in my It is just being around long, I'm twenty years and stand up about turkey. Wife about. It is not a comic right and she tells me stuff. That's interesting, she's like You know your hair cut shorter, now non stuff, but it still for a while there's, literally hiding behind it media. Like half my fate, this kind of hidden. I think I'm a moulding in expressing gadding with people. She's, like you, seem aloof, like you just seemed disk did I write, I feel like an open wound, she's like what- and you know I mean so much to say it's interesting though, because you, you feel that
inside, but you just did disconnect rise, not kind of translate interest and even in the green rooms, one eyed when you're losing it, I'm always expect to. Have you remember you sure you know it's just like. I feel like I'm trying to make an effort to talk to me more, I often just show up at the said, I'd look at my little notebook, say hi. Whatever do myself and its, I realize, oh so, me? I'm not the young comic, like everybody's younger than me and a lot of these, then I'm a dick yeah cause. I didn't talk to somebody right now, so, like oh shit like to make an effort talked to be telling me how frustrated you are for me at my canceled comedy central show that a long time ago, isn't it weird when you go to new york like if I go to the seller, it does feel like they're kind of ghosts there
I haven't even I feel, like I've been around long enough for I'm like wow. This has changed and they changed it. The structure of it a little yet I haven't been there since they did that while they were working on when I was there and I'm like. Oh, this feels weird yeah yeah. It's you know it's like going. There is theirs. There are goes, but Also that kind of weird new york thing where it's like out. He still here, yeah that Yang I feel like there's, actually living ghosts. Yeah yeah. Can you experience yeah, definitely and the hanging out like you can kind of kill at the table, and you know when a lot of that pressure is gone, is because well yeah, because man he's gone patrice is gone. Geraldo work on yeah, that's true! So It doesn't have ways not what a wider I dont go in there that much. I should go and more easily stop by really go up. I d gone, see who's there and hang on a little, then yeah yeah, that's it sort of what I do, I gotta have rushed to go. Do the ten minutes, sir
but I'm not in new york. That long ever you know like I don't I should go. I maybe should go for a little longer. It's nice to do a drop in do a little thing yeah, but what yeah. So what's the plan for the movie? What happens now since a platform release? Writes a small movie mia? It's a counterprogramming thing for the summers like all these superhero movies and and then my thing will be out there. I think there's going to be I'm sure, a plenty of indie movies through the summer, but the ideas I'm in a I'm touring so that they peggy, I think, some of the city's immense it'll be a screening. Romeo aroused and yemeni go to boston and understandable and then the next night they'll show my movie somewhere and I'll do like a q and a and you know that kind of thing. Well, that's great yeah! I think it's a good way to do it. I think so like I want to make more movies. I want to write my books. I maybe you're similar. I tell my wife. She said this to me. I was like I tried alike. Diversify enough, yet If I'm in trouble in one area right, then I can kind of stand another leg right, but on fourchan for me,
a more motivated by escaping pain. And kind of moving towards pleasure. You know what I mean, maybe that's most comedians, but for me it really is true. So I'll do stand up all I want you stand up and then I doing it on the road and I'm miserable. I just want to go home yeah, I, like being on stage but the travel united I get for him past. I hate the t s eight I just hate all area empty as a pre, but still a pain in the ass here. Like a moment like I'm just exhausted. I wish I could just right just have a reared, write books in my house, man, I'm writing and I hate it. It's like homework italian over my head. I feel my good enough men like I wish I could just a cast in something actings like the easy money right. Then I apart in something and dislike piece of meat. I creative container digital media is itself hatred that Israel has around the eye. That will my really from that is, is doing this and also on that I'd, like is
and it has been more fun cause. I'm not. I there's like I'm not freaking out like I'll. Have a kid I don't have red white thrower. I had to have paid for the house so like the financial he's not hanging over me, I'm in the future. So now all that hanging over me. It's like well the equation. Everything's is set up for you to be happy now that going so worst you're at the end of the line you just at the cliff, like you made it up here, go there is a happy time. I had that once more. My first moved out here the same exact thing we moved to Santa Monica. I went for really long walk in the summer, all the way down through venice and, as I came back to think, and in the same walk I was coming north and it was like sunset. It was beautiful, it was perfect and the beach was empty because it was I dunno, a late air. I remember thinking this just like you just said. I remember,
a fucking die because everything was I was in love moved out here. I had the show at the time, and it was just like, oh my god and I wasn't- even so- I was Spielberg and I'm like I've- succeeded its the hard reality when you- why's that you know some of this stuff is really up to you, yeah for shorts. It some to me Balance is a struggle between I'm not working hard enough. And I should be working harder like white, just try harder. You know I nails like I'm here. That's why I feel lost, I think, is like I don't even know what I do that to myself to but by you know, they're, like any any happens at certain times. You know like that, like in terms of My popularity and am, I know I am my ability, I'm ok with it had I don't really want to be any bigger. and your last over, like I feel like in ways comedies like here pop where the people here? It is community podcast
can we change the landscape, really others some people cross over liked like when I started you guys, I saw guys like ok, he's kind of famous to me, people were famer I or a big deal. Then I realized now they are like louis. You know that the example you like, while woe is like being robbed their girls at world famous. He I'm still not. Dare you know I'm old place, I feel You have everyone will. Certainly the podcasts were right like it's not the comedy world, it is a different, it's all very each other. I have my own show and stuff, but it's on. I have c which is fine but like like ivo, I some our another and I think it's probably not a bad karma that been able to occupy the spaces without a lot of you sort of mainstream attention. Yeah, like you, you know people find me in their excited me. That's nice has! If, if you, if you're still discuss, but the wages and on an if you're, a certain amount of known than the people who know you all right. A lot with the people who, like you right, but if you're
the famous than people who hate you yeah they're. Here they know you, you everything, that's a good point. Yes, I'm good with that, but there's still this two fundamental thing, where get hard on myself. I give especially like I'm working towards, especially my colleague, joke it like, this hour, we know I got through together. Is it really know? Is it a good out in its like? It's fine yeah, you know, like I I met a program like there's so much content. If you do something really really excellent or really really horrendous, the only chance of being remembered for a little while, where I think he's gone in the manner that guy did the worst thing effort. Now I get that's true unit this gives you busy. I get to talk to people in You know you're doing fine, I'm doing fine but liking a what whether or not we feel ok, Is it really is always acceptance, yeah and that's fine
for some reason cause like certain people like myself, like when I'm you, you know what I tend to find. There's something knock trouble but certainly familiar being hard. I myself right out till I get It's always been there and it is maybe there's comfortable in as much as it's like I don't. It's part of identity My grave romances was its as I know myself. If that goes away, then maybe I'm wrong. What is it scary. It but what we eat. But if it goes away, then maybe you can really experience it, because it is a control thing. Yeah I mean it's very subjective right yeah I suck yeah right
it right. It's like you know the comic I mean the beauty of it for us is. We know you do two shows in one night. This is the classic experience of like the first crowd loves you eat shit, same material. I mean it's the same room, it's the same kind that great joke. You know that old joke and I dunno about the comics that yeah just did is out on the road and he did a couple of shows the night before and he's at the mall the next day, and yet some hot chick comes up is why she goes. I said last night you were great and he goes to whichever it certainly does. This does is to make it so yeah, it's yeah outlets We're doing all right. Your kids are healthy, got alive, the movies good people enjoy it, and yet you workin on the hour you doing the work of being a happiness. Maybe that's you maybe ok? Maybe a woman who fuckin us? Ok, guitar anything's, MIKE
all right so that what did you hear the love did years coming together in a way we never had before, maybe or not is attentive to my relationship with dmitri martin as I am, I went and when it happens, but it was, it was good. I was happy to talk to him in and go see the movie dean it's now playing around. so leslie stall is somebody. I never thought I would talk to you and I was able to talk to her her book b, in grandma. The joys and signs of the new grand parenting is now available on paper back and it was. It was nice to talk to another person that talks to people professionally. This is me unless we stall back in the garage. Well, you know who, as we stall, you're an interviewer and I get nervous when I interview interviewers. I have not interviewed many of them. I want you nervous. You do
is that your tactic. No, it's not my tactic, but I'm rarely interviewed yeah. So I want. I want to keep you just a little off balance, it'd be able to I'm always off balance. That's not going to be a challenge to keep me off balance, but you know, like I watch like. I have certain questions that I don't want to get into like specific interviews, but let's start with like how did you where'd you come from? I came from swampscott massachusetts, really yeah, that's north of boston right on the ocean. It is spectacularly beautiful yeah and it's one of the reasons I loved and alike, as I can go out to santa Monica and look at the ocean and feel at home different ocean. No yet, but it looks exactly the same, you doesn't exactly the same. I spent a lot of time the new england area that ocean date there's a ruggedness too to the kind of like
margo head and give a thousand from marble had swamps, get it right place yeah. You know my tie. Do I know knowing when pretty well, let's feed real differences, the temperature, the waters right unbearably coal right there and humidity in this in the summer, is awful. Yet so you just how many people in your family, I make it you suddenly and my brother and you just grew up in florence- get we just grew up in swarms me as I get in new england person. I really why felt like the always felt like maybe a new york pherson. Now now now now what your father do up there. Well, my father went to mit to study organic history and then went into business with his father and his brother and initial They made leather colors here for debt for handing her dying, whether for leather yea, the colors year, and then they made all they move. Delivery stayed doing that and went on to. Shiny things and they may
for example, specialised attic shiny that has, for example, they made something that I've been a roaring success and wasn't a poor on floor. We got her and it was like anyone can do it or just like. I would know him that you could be sores like lenore port, it would harden and we had it in our kitchen it worth it got to do. It was beautiful and it just didn't take off and John. They also invented the shiny look. Raincoats that look like leather and had a show a lovely shy area. They invented that that was a big success. The us is so he had a patent. On the shiny stuff. He had patents and the shiny stuff and poor war, and they made some kind of inks. They also made the trip to paint the goes down middle either of highways they may dad. Made bad reflective, shiny paint arena whenever I yellow away. They never expect when I really didn't buy my father's if they have to redo so
so many sold his busier man. I was in my early twenties and that was eddie retired. He didn't retire. He went to work for the company that bought his. Penny? Aha and are began wanted to. I think you did he didn't want me was too young. retire bright. He wanted to sell a business and he went He became the head of a whole new division, and went around the world buying companies and had he told me, was the happiest time of his whole career throat, an entrepreneur in a world traveler and a big business guy. Yes, that started out in swamps, got started his wont get in his peers. Little company calls there was an international company. Oh he traveled constantly and took brother in me with him a lot
I'm got to see the world even before I got to CBS news here where we travel all the time. I travelled all the time here and what your brother and of doing my brother was in real estate. Ok and then, sadly, he died when he was fifty five years old answer: larynx cancer- oh my god Sorry to hear that, where did you? Where are you from? I grew up in albuquerque new mexico, my parents are from jersey, originally like I'm genetically jersey. Am I a router jersey, and I spent a lot of time. There was a kid, but don't you think that when you, when you go to school that, then your peers are more formative than your parents, wiping yeah. I've grown to believe that, however, your wired, emotionally in whatever those shortcomings, restraints may be or put in pretty early, and then there yeah. Well, you either. I think I disagree a little bit near design. I think, high school.
Mean girls, and all of that proper, I think, may be shaped me more than anything even my own basket of genes Really. I am. I think that I don't know if it's true, but you gotta get shaped your sense of self sense of yeah. My sense of self, my trust haha securities, while they can certainly, Make you aware of those. When you have feelings are hurt. I e I spent, long time looking for something to be and for how to act and what I was interested in those come from influences. I think those are very defining but you're just yet by my life and relationships the more nationally and intimate things in my life and my oh, my god, I'm them together. There are, or I've accomplish, the anti them right bruno yeah yeah well, would that that comes from that fight, yeah! There's a determination like well I'm not going to I'm not going to be that and then you know eventually it if you do yeah, that's pretty sad
is it true, though, sometimes sometimes you hear your mother or your father in your head, but depends on how you firm and you are not to be right and that's that's exhausted. yeah, you can't you harry disaster. After certain point, you got a laker, embraced the good things about them and hopefully, though, outweigh the negative things that are coming out of you re right. So that's that's how I grew up so so what was the process you out of curiosity? I guess he had some experience global travelling, but how did you like? Where did you go to college? What led you to journalism, an area of answer these questions, because You know, I must one day I'm not a kid in my day, god. I can't believe I'm sorry No, my dear, I say numb. Fifty three doesn't sound like my grandfather, so much angel, I mean like in the last decade. It's it's like profound. We do our yes, but I'm going back so that no one ever even men.
Journalists, journalism and it never wrote for the school paper never took a journalism course came to. New york was going be a doctor really really set out. When you salmon new yorker, I did go to new york in the early sixties, aha too, to prepare for medical school. Aha and what you study undergrad, you just adjusted history, ok and then got dad didn't have enough science courses. unto colombia, major in zoology hated it for graduate school yeah. How would you, though, what well I didn't have enough science credit as though you thought you'd walking YAP hated it hated it. I wouldn't touch anything you know conduct a tea said to me: leslie your care, and I was just too ikey, really like just like dead animals and bugs and well parts of animals. She parts she parts of animal She parts my and they gave me my own dogfish shark,
gone to the high master at no good, no good. So so then I was then I end answering an ad in the new york times went to work for mayor linsey, oh yeah, mayor lindsey, may I idea like aids before my political awareness, by diverting pictures of in the seventies gorgeous yeah. good good mayor. He was just an ok ere, he had a strike things conspired against him, but he was a good guy, and what year we talking sixty seven six, I was working for him, sixty six, sixty seven and who and what I worked on his speech- riding staff, real yeah. As a researcher and then went into the newsroom one day. All the reporters hung out ass one of them. What do you do all day? Who and he told me and when he finished I had a burning, almost passionate desire to be a reporter.
It was only lash. What did he tell you? What will it s really provide you? He tell me in a basically fundamentally that you could be really nosy gossipy and I could write it down and tell other people what the secrets you found out they may pay. You know. No one told me that I could make my hobby a profession were laughing, but it's kind of true and then I went looking for a job. as a journalist, java librarians. Exactly and NBC news was gearing up there. Election unit for the sixty eight presidential campaign, humphrey nixon yak me- and I got the job was a researcher already, aha neighbour, hiring me as a researcher and really those with the only jobs. There were four women at the yes near. This is pre affirmative action, right, so they left me. I turned my goodness. I jumped you're on that campaign. Oh
it was a wonderful job. I loved it where you political person really. My mother and father disagreed vile and oh yeah sides, my dad a democratic liberal democrat. My mother was a conservative republican and they didn't they need. voted the same and they argued- and I grew up in that household and I thought whenever my mother, book. She made sense. Whenever my dad spoke, he made sense, so it is kind of a trick bout and usually go the other way you neo? Usually the man is the conservative. I would think Maybe I'm generalizing what they say that women as women age near they get more liberal and as manage, they get more conservative or as a few slipping away. They need somewhere to be angry about. Well, maybe it's as women realized they may be widows they want more government support. Now there are so many reasons, but what were there?
grounds like what you, what kind of family was it like a jewish? Are you yeah share, but no religion right well, yeah. Most of us tat, yeah, well totally mainstream gary surely jewish haggling right now Alright, so there you are and like that was a big that was a big election and you know Nixon was not appealing except to my mother. She really oh yeah. how that guy charmed anybody is fascinating tat. I know what you did he well, I'm not sure charmed is the right word: What do you think it was? I think that he conveyed a sense of stability and experience. He done a lot better, He was very smart, yet is yeah, it is politician he was a real politician, but he came off as I think someone with depth and he was smart.
and maybe it was kind of like now where people were looking for some kind of even right stability. We go back and with between warning someone who's a little older and knowledge, calmer and then the who guy who's going to change every whip. It yes render just turn in on itself. Yet what I find interesting, though, is like I came relate to politics, and you know you really kind of may bones. You have reporting in politics, and I was I dont know I was up. Static, but I I guess I was I I was more creatively driven person and then somewhere in the very late after reagan. You know- and I'm fifty three so I should have been more active, and this is something that resonates with me now because of the election is that if you're, progressive or liberal or or you just want to you know you're doing other things, you're already person, you just want things to be. Okay and you don't you don't you're? Not you, don't you don't activate your your civic responsibility, you take things for granted, and maybe I should just say I do- and this is
those elections were it sort of like you know, we're all we all sort of took things for granted a lot of people. I do think it it. It's very much determined by that time in which you come of age. Yet, and if you came of age in the sixties, we ve, indifferent. Well coarser was the draft young. There was a vietnam war and, sin and watergate all these things conspired make even the youngest person for ngos But yet freak out be concerned about the leadership of the country. That then there will. I actually was my formative years were in the eisenhower years right we would call a silent generation and, while I was If, in retrospect, were you comfortable where you did you think everything was ok, yeah and we adopt eddie running the government have to worry about it. General, was running. There was older, older, calmer, very much calmer and thus end like you,
The economy was really going slowly, but steadily upward incomes were growing steadily upward there with the middle class was just too, floating. Wasn't that the establishment of the middle class was network where really became defined during those time this than the man in the gray flannel suit. Yes, but we also at that point the union's coming on strong and forcing the auto the car come knees and the other large companies ge to pay a decent wage cause. The unions were strong and bright, and it just was a a time of great promise where it was. Still coming out of world war, two we rise dill, our parents was still thinking about Depression is just was completely com right there and there was relief. It seemed like amerika was going to eat. You know fulfil its promise to these people right people were looking inward, yes stead of our. Ok, you know we had been through war, a war too
did have the korean war. I wish I was too young to really that await you might have an opportunity to another. One thanks so what kind of you to if you know, but I do think that the times will create a political per right. So when you when you get the job as a researcher, what you're new early twenties, yeah and its nineteen sixty eight and things are starting to blow up. Will you in terms of the culturally exactly, and you know what did you feel that happening jellia all around it? Well, they won marches. the anti war marches and just beginning Just beginning and lindsey who had been my boss was very much wolden that he was one of the first people in congress to vote against the vietnam war via so yeah. It was in the air
And then we had the sixty eight convention right and the hippies, and you know the baker marches and narrowing of ireland's yet and mayor daily in Chicago causing mayhem it at the convention. So yeah that was kind at the beginning of everybody's, new awareness of politics and then, when they go, I guess when the when the kids got shot, I can state that kind of seal the deal that there is a real fight for the country and what people believed that should be right and strikes and demonstrations it virtually everyone. bessie and they are coming out of the silent generation and it's the bay in general, yet so that's a huge number of people. Was it scary. You know because now like he, he no! I don't. I can't picture it because I was way too young, but there's like there's a tangible fear in the air. To me and I'm an older person now, but I just wondered then: was there like a fear of the government
my recollection and things you know things get accordion in in your in your memory right about compartmentalize what yeah? What's really big and but my memory is that that sense of fear- that we're having now is more similar to what was going on during watergate than the six? so the early seventys when the country was completely polarized much as it is now the end up. Half the country loved the power on the other, have hated the president, and there was no one between and people were, still domino against the vietnam war, so there was actually or violence in the country than now was the was the polar region China's vicious yeah it was definitely and agnew them. president, was running around the country attacking the press, there are similarities.
you know when I say my brain has been accordion I've. It may have been worse than you. You always think it's worse now sure, but it may have. Actually There may have been more strife and more division series division Yeah entry, then even now will because I think it seems that the then you know the The momentum of the younger people was massive ban right in and now it seems like a lot of the younger people are either detached or or sure how to activate like you see these marches in a lot of people are coming together, but back then it was. It was all like you're, eighteen to twenty two year old swell they draft yeah yeah now and made so they really had
get in the game totally right and they were the met baby boomers. So there were huge numbers right, although I just read- uphold this morning near about eighteen to twenty four year olds, really turning seriously against president trump near so maybe there's an activation. going on right now, you're what that works. Like I don't know it could be just tweets Well, there's no drafter in. Oh that's right that made a giant yeah. That makes sense to me. So how did you get from research to you know to reporting slow yeah very slowly. Actually, my first ambition was to be a producer because I'd my perception was that the producers of generally generally speaking and television, we're doing a lot of the reporting beer and writing and that's what I was interested in. You ultimately do that. Now, though, right. I mean we do it now, but in those days that's
you're my head was there. I was probably wrong in my perceptions back then. Ah, but that's what I thought so I was trying to become a producer. Ok and it took me long time, but I didn't care I loved every job. I had been journalists, as always the big break of I. If, if any young people are listening They are all appreciate that the young that the big break was was a failure. and you know you come out of the ashes and you're actually stronger, wouldn't really visible at well. I had fallen I face and had to build back. How so well, I will, after the election year incendiary in sixty NBC news sent me to london where They made me something called a field producer which men absolutely nothing. I did nothing, nothing meaningful and my own eyes and of the then president of sea of NBC news said to me when I complained of
he said you know you, you, young people, you think you can start at the top. Well, if you start at the top, you gonna fall flat on your face. A nobody starts at the top at a network. If you really want to be a journalist, go get a job at a newspaper, go to a wire service or go home and go to a local television station right. So I applied everywhere in new york, times. U p, I was living in london at the time? So I tried to get a job there and no one would hire me came home to visit my parents and went over to the local CBS affiliate in Boston, and they hired me- and it was a step backward- is a big step back to go from the network right as a feel producer to become a producer on us show in Boston that was very similar to the sea.
Sixty minutes in its format, anyone, but you are not known in front of the camera I've already, given that what now you're gonna be a repeat of producer, so you wanted to amalgamate research and find the through line and and set up the segments, and even write it in those days, yes, what we did everything except record, our voice right, and I was so happy I am to me, I had fulfil my dream and I, claude my way back here and a done with that man said I had a start at the beginning and learn the profession step by step by step, no leapfrogging. Why every baby but it was necessary. Obviously let your learnt to get the skill set exactly you know. If you are a fuel producer, what it, what it was that really, whether that really mean you're not getting. It meant nothing, nothing nothing. I would go out with a camera crew and say: could you take a picture of that? That was it and then they d it later so the reproduced Happily, oh yeah, right I tell you earning your trade.
You're not living in boston year, which is one of the great reporting towns cities in the country causing a capital. It's where all at universities and medicine and in those days politics cause bussing was the big story. We had the bussing queen Louise Louise day, hicks has earned, it will be a day hicks. everything was there right there and one day they decide while they, the fcc, denies the renewal licence to the owner for lots of reasons you don't care about beyond, What the bus- and they all knew of the television sergeant, ok yet and might station, was taken off the air or rude and right before that happens, my wonderful boss, said. You know, I'm gonna give you some on camera experience. Why do they shut the station
was. There was a political. It was that the owner engaged in an act of what they called an ex part, tate communication as some kind of a bribe to one of the f c c, commissioners to re up a licence at it. Something like a cruise or something rioters only take area on the station. Sure enough and he blew the whistle, and that was so. Everybody at the station was then looking for a job, and I got a call I'm an old friend in new york and from my NBC days, you're saying you know, there's this thing called affirmative action, ha ha and all the network news out stations What are desperate for any woman who has any experience or any minority? Who is an expert soviet, the good? So you do, you took the gig do an arm.
Amor stuff. Before you got to new york s, ok, see how little it and left my friend said you have to put together a real of your work. Did you I do. Right away together. They know on camera, I wasn't very good at it. I remember having to do what we call a stand up for the end of the peace with the corresponding finally appears on camera, which you do at the beginning of a peace. Now on sixty one sixty minutes by the fit. This was for a hard news. Yes, we say, and that the pieces about fifteen seconds, and I couldn't do it and then sweet tamar man threw away an entire real of film. We used to work and film. Aha, he just said well up I missed It was your nerve and I was like fifteen minutes. I couldn't do fifteen seconds. I couldn't remember fifteen seconds in my head, I only goodness, but I I wanted to The jobs available were on camera, so that didn't make the real that
Well, I've got the fifteen seconds granted the real and at an end, networks are really desperate for women around the country, who had done any work and there were very few cars. It was pre affirmative action CBS hired me grayer, that's! That was my big browser. You, thanks to affirmative action, and the endless station been taken off. The air rests not definitely affirmative action, no question, then you started as you are in on air report reporter, for which would show, with their faces she would show. Is that no no narrowly for the CBS bureau in Washington and it was the the diamonds in the tiffany network head? going across the role we had marvin cab, dan rather roger mud down our remit.
were all of them. They. I walked into that bureau, my first day of work and was completely dazzled and their offices were like the windows of saks. Av F, Saks. Fifth avenue. You know that the where's in clubs and how are you you walked in and there they were sitting at their desks in these open offices and thought I'd gone to haven't yeah, and so that was in washington. and so then you were a you- were washington, correspondent now hired the affirmative action babies. Yes, what we call ourselves as really apprentices. and we had a different title, we were reporters and although stars were correspondence and we were apprenticed to one of them, one of each one got paired off and we learned by us most. Would you get? I got Dan sure we learned by us moses, just following them around? They didn't instruct us they just let us
long? Why? How much did you know going into covering politics the the the way it works like as well I found is that when I start working it air america years ago, I knew very little about how politics did you did you know any that going in I don't remember that, being I didn't, the answer is no didn't, but I don't remember that being my problem as much as writing. I had a right and a really good television, hard news story or who did the reporting on it? like. Where would you get the information of your writing a piece about a piece of legislation or an international problem, and we will do what is the process? What did you do well in the beginning I followed dancer around watched. What he was doing. This was nineteen. Seventy two presidential election of that year was under way and the bureau was pretty
de because most of the correspondence were assigned different candidates in the primary soaker nick somebody I was running for reelection, so their allotted democrats running right. There were very few p adding Mcgovern muskie and I, like all those guys aloes guys, came vaguely remember from mad magazine, because I was nine years old, so like, I remember the characters by member caricatures of them cause. That's how I got the news mad magazine Weren't gonna send the new kids know their soil with very few in the bureau, and I came right before this unbelievable break and at the watergate of the democratic national committee, nobody thought it was anything except a very local, be any and they sent me. breakin and our europe breaking and entering the nodded watered down. in those days was just the democratic party and no one cent reporters concept, the washington, post and CBS,
and they sent me alone without my without dance or just me, just a report on the breakin just have been There is no doubt on the brake, etc. I was in the court. I went to the arrangement of the burglars in him and the only other order in the courtroom was a guy named bob woodward and the two of us were in the end, the reporter section, and that was it and no one else was it was an empty courtroom. Would you feel that day were you at sums but yeah and bob and I are eyes, were bulging because one of them worked for creep, which was the committee to re, elect the president shirt and they were these. Secondly, numbered hundred dollar bills and phony passport I mean it was all smelly near, but would the end, and I would run to the phone as I was- instructed and record radio
from night from the corner from the court house, I was reporting what I will say had unroll, phones and press for exactly run to the newsroom, and can we found is actually really. I think it was not quite that think I ran outside and went to a pay for sure and put my dimes and recorded, these things ready- and I only found out years and years later, that they never put them on the air I didn't know that really so So our idea, I'm writing, leaves little short. Forty five second summaries of what was here What room with all this stuff about the gnat that creep in the money here went nowhere. even go out on the aware that sad, we're doing big things, and then there is no noise listening yeah, but I was learning the data part was. I was learning by. You stayed in the saddle with watergate through the whole thing exactly and you were there. You know the scooping it to our degree
well in the beginning. Every time the story died, the urgent did every couple of weeks. It just died. It was over woodward with side and failure. Don't give up. Don't let them take this away from you. Well, of course they do was the junior may, as it became a big story and in the courts in congress wherever the story went, the white house, I was always number two stayed with it to shore to shore. And then to fred, graham who was at the who was covering it and the endless courts. and dan rather in the white house, and you know it just kept moving right. It was. It was this block but woodward and Bernstein, like you, were talking to bob woodward and they were the ones it oh ultimately broke it right gap, but they kept breaking, it were, I would die and then they break it again and and each time they broke it agenda closer and closer to the president will tell me how that work,
and because you know we're witnessing it now, I'm too young to remember watergate. I mean what was the pushed back from the administration. That would would make it go away while the oh operation of the white house was built to keep it away from the President right. and obviously there was this deep throat guy. Having would We meet him in garages and things like that in a weaker the liquor and every time the white house put up a wall, the leaker managed put, cannot get a little hole in the wall and push it further, further with little white house yet- and it was incremental This story went on for two and a half or close to three years, and it was it was if you telescope at unrelenting, but to live through it. It was more
run out o way drawn out and, as I can keep saying it kept dying, and I kept saying too to my friend bob I can't stay on. This is nothing I have to go to cover other stories. I heard advance my career right, don't go. Don't let go we catch. You wanted as many people as possible working on it. Now he was a friend, and not allowing me that this is. This is an ongoing to explode one and he saw you is sort of like you know. He was a newspaper guy and you are a tv person. now we are debating now. Ok, his girl parada, and he was just- you- never gave her the right order. He never told me anything, you just cage languages, don't let them take. This way of thinking journalists are you and I we never did right. I didn't know idea, maybe I should have now by boat you. I was at a competitive situation. Not now. Are you still friends? Yes, well that's nice, so I too like let what's
a little bit about your job currently and and how this works. You know in the sense that you know you spent on how long did it take for that thing, two to three years, three years for it to take him doubt yes, so what we are seeing now like. I think I wanna talk about, because you know you do you do get scoops. You do produce. You do report but like in terms of like the the leakers in the whistleblowers especially in a time like you know now- and I imagine in time like then it doesnt seem that that people We know that their necessary that young innocence tat you. You have to have them when he, especially when the whole thing is rigged against you, and I am saying rigged, but just jesting by this one party dominating and everything is, is insulated, yo executive, really there
if you dont have whistleblowers and you don't have leakers it's a real problem. I think whistleblowers and leakers only become heroes in history at the time, particularly when we are talking about the white house year, those officials who are on the record will put up a huge battle against the leakers because their wealth, always while it's going on here, because they know that they could bring them down yeah. So seeing now an end for the less several presidencies. It's not just president trumpet was obama was Clinton. George w I mean this dislike of the press dislike if anybody within their administration who talks to the press secretly mean they're seen as betrayers and traders. That's I guess that's the way is always been
so deep throat is only a hero in hindsight and at times, do you like him, would be castigate dont forget when, when there is a precedent that means except this time that most people voted for him right, except this idea, but but generally the public is on the side of the president and the beginning. They just voted for him. You wanna, thank, you, may right decision. Yeah you want. If you support your guy, your team, your honor esteem right, and so when you begin to see that the press, or whoever you gonna blame for the negatives where and going after, your guy you're gonna dislike them intensely that's where we are right now and that's where we were during Watergate. So, after what gate. And after that I mean I imagine the ear you know when you bring up, it ain't down that that the nation must be just sort of like what the factors happen like What was the while? I was incremental enough that they knew come here.
And we there was there were impeachment proceedings going on in congress, for a while for a while yet and it was the drip, drip, drip, drip drip and the public, I think they were exhausted and jerry ford came in. I was in the midst of it and couldn't believe how quickly things just settle down how important who is president, is to the mood of the country? Yes, so here we add all the turmoil constant churning churning- earning arguing screaming these. These hearings were on television, all that to all day long grammar memory, priest every night and then jerry ford, such a normal man he made his own english muffins and in the white house, and he had no though it I think here then, is the first lady was talking about dealing with sex with her children by her, and it was Norma belt, he gave
were they weren't? Normally ever he had even run for president was an appointed vice president, and he didn't have that craziness. The people who run for president have and really the whole that bubble. That was just expanding expanding disbursed to settle down. So we as well as you did this as you can. at the white house because, like I was trying to think you know what was baffling when I you know when I watch your interviews with presidents and I watch the you know with with the the one with president elect trump. You know shortly after that. You know outside of the investigative pieces which will what just in talking to these guys who have this amazing power, and you know that they have this power at some level. You know that you you're going to they are going to attempt to use you as a facilitator of whatever.
well shit. They want to put out in the world yeah, so yeah so like as a reporter. Knowing that's the score, because I've talked to politicians before I talked to obama, but I was carefully not. I was careful not to talk about politics, because that's not usually what I do here but when you're doing that, you know what what is what is going on, make it different. How are you not just going to fulfill their agenda like when you walk into that format? That's that's the game and I use that word yet game, because he has the president and it's always been a he. he has his his agenda for this interview yet and, of course, we're trying to get past. The talking point bright, we're very desperately trying to get past the talking right and you just go back and forth. It's it's a tennis match Here's my question to break through the wall of your planned remarks right and to give you a
question you weren't expecting cause they they plan for especially a big interview like sixty minutes. They land, forty israeli, had people all Anybody coming on a senator whatever they have their staff, throwing questions at them ahead of time, a hot and so you're. Trying to get around that an even for a second maybe we can because for a second, even for a look right right, because I noticed like him when in you talking about europe interview tromp most recently. In terms of that, the president elect interview was that you know how you know: you're observant of his body, language, you, you are making assumptions based on your experience with past presidents. An end I wonder how you feel about that in retrospect, your assumptions about what happened that day in talking to him. Well, it was surprising all the way around that interview. I had already interviewed him the day he name princesses, running mate, so
well. I had been in the room with a guy who was up. He had the sense of a cat who was ready to pounce you're, just ready for a combat. Did you know him before from new york? A little I didn't reviewed and before? But I didn't know, I'm really well done anybody. He had insisted that my boss and I go and meet him in his office before the first interview it was, I felt it was somewhat of an audition. I actually felt it when we were in the room you how we could work here I mean that's what he's a hustler like he's got it like. He's gotta see the mark to figure out how, can charge me right. Oh he did charm us believe are you not very good at that? He was excellent at that and he gave us a little tour of his office, which is huge
This is the best armed with all of you or is it a huge? Has the best offer yet look at my view, its the best view in the world. You know that canada, but, but so I expected the first term that I saw when he was still running, but I in view them again the one you're talking about three days after the election year a different man walked in Oh what here something interesting about him. He doesn't. He didn't, at least in those days come with an entourage he walked in the room alone and sat down alone. yeah, I didn't have the usual people around him, whispering in his ear that you see with so many politicians, and he was com instead of leaning forward. ready to pounce. He was leaning back and I just had the strongest impression, even though he denied it that he was. He was in shock then he had not expected to end, and this was only three days later, and it was still you know that the ice
yeah that he had this huge responsibility now was just washing over him. It was a strong impression I have, but he didn't, he, he denied it. Oh yeah totally deny sure how he knew he was going to win all all along. Well, what did you or what have you earned from the interviewing? I guess like what is it carter through trump you've interviewed all of them? I did I I didn't interview, George w, oh really yeah, but all the others did you try. Well, I was it sixty minutes by then, and he was taken corresponding ok assigned wit with Clinton, ah I interviewed him in a group here. all team interview Clinton, only president yeah hey, he didn't like sixty minutes They they here and hilary were unhappy be what the interview that the brilliant interview that steve crafted with them when the still running I dont get it. We have a water
people a lot of analysed, say that made him president via, but they didn't like it so yeah. So we did thou sixty minutes in our view on MIKE they are morally. Was there ed, bradley, steve craft, and I five on one year and they didn't like it well that interview? I think they liked because, like I know it's it's a challenge: egg. Coming from, like ideological press, where you don't, you know where you, theoretically, you have to be unbiased in your approach I and ii, and trained to be right and- and you know, people are going to make whatever assumptions are going to make and like we've already established that you know the ideas to try two cleverly and end get around there talking points you at least get a moment of of authenticity or or thoughtful sore or catch them in I dont know why you're not a lie, but yet just kinda like what you're doing right now that kind of that right, but but what? What? What I'm curious about
in that? You know having interview these president's and then seeing the arc of their careers. After your assumptions and after universe and whatever information you got, what have you learned about these men? who are in this position. You know outside of that each other cagey and Some of them are smarter than others, but yeah is there a common thread to how they hold that job? No, no, no different! I want to ask somebody about this in this particular case, but it's a lesson for anybody at the top of a big organization. This was about football coaches and I wanted to define what makes a success. full football coach in terms of temperament personality, and I was informed there. There is no formula, you can have a football coach whose screams and yells at everybody and net invites the men for a one on one chat. Then you can have the coach, that's dancing in the locker room with the guys right and they both wildly successful and anna
say the same with president's you have introverted extroverts, you have losers and guys who closed the door and don't want anyone coming in europe and and so that the question about what does it take pretty much indefinable, but yours, to be some idea. Ambition is, may be the only thing, but some guy, or better leaders and others, and sometimes that depends on who they surround themselves, with probably a great deal that I agree with that. An end in then in terms of I ain't, even sauce the times that there in that require an outgoing on in going our person who wants to quiet things down a whip things up it. It cannot just be the isolated figure he's right for this time, but one for them time yet, and I you in and things will change in the middle of a presidency near he'd, be right, the beginning and wrong. At the end we ve had a lot of shore and but like being in it all. The time like, I watched her interview with the with knocking yahoo and Israel
yes, and he's like you know, he's he's a he's, a very grounded, no bullshit kind of character in no. No, To be honest, I don't think there that we would tying up. What's the common thread, yeah, there's bullshit with of a bridle sure. That's the one come alive and well you know about it. You put your finger ran riot. So, You ve got to get around the that's another word total around right, but I told you it's a game right. I'd really like politicians, you'd have due to stick around and however, that world, why are you like what most them, and this in when I meet someone who isn't this way, I'm I'm basically hurt, but most of them come into this business. To do good rare did they don't set out to destroy to destroy. why or take the country in the wrong direction the
Their motives serve are pure in the beginning, and I do I turn I dont look upon them as crooks or evil people. No, no I guess you couldn't in the beginning, but a half a year before turn doing good is relative. Ideology is well well yes, but but good is definitely related to ideology, but I want to see an In the beginning, I want to see that that their that their hearts in the right place, even if you don't agree with the direction that they want to take up and you have found maggie. You have seen that at the beginning, generally speaking s generally speaking, not at present, but, generally speaking, and really when I said to you, were trained not to be opinionated, we are an and I've been at this. Do I have
admit how long, no I don't have to but a long time, and sometimes I think so long that it's it's hard to find my own opinion, sometimes ruined, yeah like even went away? I guess it that is relative to your own place in life. like you know where you are you you, feel about grandmother and stuff, like grandmother yeah, how different the periods of economic stability whatever it is. You know what's important you from a politician, is gonna be different, but yeah we all have a general sense of this is bad. Well, I ass, where I am right now is. I worry about the future, because I have grave Children should in a way I never thought about it before either my own child, so I really do worry about wit. What kind of world my little kids a gun. How do they now three and a half in six, a handsome, I think about
environmental law, to which I hadn't been doing before. But I guess where facing a crisis, so maybe everybody's there worried about really really worried about technology and the internet work, but that's doing to us and babies, mines and all of that. What has it done to journalists? Oh my god! It's it's changed it can you can you do instead of a hundred and eighty cannot just be spinning around all the time. You don't know where you are at any moment mean thing: I told you I started and film so in film you had to wait for the fund to be developed. We have sometimes there's no time for processing. That's it! That's the big difference there is in there is, it doesn't seem to be any real. It takes a lot of energy to source properly to even as a consumer, so like I've actually been nostalgic for three swim for three networks.
in the sense. Exactly I am to you are you where everyone was sort of on the same page and you could go figure out things and in him we weren't getting all the information, and now we we think we're now the information, but sometimes that's not even good, because you know what stood the ability of that information and there's an absolutely everyone has a voice on a social networking platform. So there's no there's no, it's an enemy of tolerance and processing and and thoughtfulness about, what's happening, there's no time that very nursing emotions. The no time is is distressing for four items. May also for the journalist. You you see something and boom your typing it an or you're talking it in a there's, no time to ask for the opposed view, there's no time to look for the context. Historically, I don't know how you do you think. Rightly. What, when what would it seems like
What, if there's a lot of great journalism going on now, it seems like there was that that right now, because of this presidency, it sort of woken up. You have the responsibility of of news outlets to really do their job. I agree and it seems like people really. jumping, I agree there. There are not being intimidated, there not be, forced to agree the air there really being courageous there's a little sense of watergate in their shores. absolutely I mean, there's well sensitive, like there's, there's watergate, but there is also this pressing kind of apocalyptic vibe yeah going on now, yet absolutely ass, Gary yeah. It is- I think it's been scary before, but it seems more scary now today Much going on. It's coming at us to quickly every day, now the reno things and where just not built to observe channel on behalf of his weary I'd. Think it's too to perhaps some not one.
not covering washington. So I'm a consumer of that news is exactly as you and right listeners are, but it does look like there are attempts to distract us from Ex I'm gonna, have your mind look at. Why right? I feel that there is a lot of that boy and I think that some of that is on the is on it. I think that journalists are somewhat responsible for that as well, that in in thorough you at all levels and also competing to get information out there and create you in finding these bits and pieces that you getting all the pieces at once all the time yet on speculation about the pieces and in an analysis of the pieces like if you, if you ve, got three or four he's out. What's coming in on your phone, it's it's nonstop and you haven't feel you have an obligation to report every one of them right and so no time to put context around any of them and they had it. I d no cause, I'm not
putting on it, but it feels deliberate, but it seems that some of this stuff, you do, does your take the time to process it when you do an investigative peace, when you spend their time would not in yahoo or you, you do the peace on get more or the new court our plan or the one I watched about police informants, not something you but, like you know you and you know in some of the interviews- were you you get the yankees these great scoops. You know that allotted that there's time to put together a lot of time. Tat we the amount of time we need for each piece, unless it's it's hard, is run. Then you just go with it, but usually we take months me, and you know what you want to do you you ve got the ear producing you. Ve got this story and you, like there's gotta, be more to this story exactly an and that's. Why have the best job certainly and broadcast journalism nea, and we're still doing at the same old way right everything's the same you're still go out with two camera crews. We
still take a lot of time to get the opposing views in the context, I know make a difference. I mean all the legal age difference. You known changed policy change to eat. You know safety situations in these that the voice, important thing was in charge of this. This, it's the moment where I watch. How old is that that was what was it last year and the year before to two seasons ago? The moment that that that that you show that college interview with the guy who was in charge of this, this inform all the units. Yes, yeah that you know what I sensed in it was this sort of like I'm, going to get these college kids, who they think they are. It was a little bit of that I eat right and and like they're at the end, that is sort of a a thread. That's going on in politics, now anti leaders and anti intellectualism, no bitterness towards towards education and towards people that seem to have a better go at it. This is what is
stunning to me about working at sixty minutes, as opposed to covering the white commits suicide. We we deal mostly with what you might call upon. My hands are going quotes our his family's gonna find out. He took some dope yeah, you know, and the kid can hand you know and the kid can handle it and he killed himself. It's it's way down at the group. and he is being called upon to tell on his friends or he's, got his family's gonna find out. He took some dope you know and the kid can handle it and he killed himself. It's it's way. at the granular horrible life, that kid's fighting find themselves in its real life. Real can that's worth stuff ass, the sort of start aging yo error. That's where that its most important there and it hurts to cover these stories and when but you're bringing up. Really I suffer you once up. You will suffer watching it and it's you.
It feels ok, yeah yeah, but these stories that you're bringing up. I really I suffer you once you will suffer watching it and it's even worse when you're in the room with a parent or someone else, who's faced a tragedy to a lot of that yeah. But he did does you know when you take the time to to to flesh his stuff out, and you have the arc of the injustice or the yo dubiousness of of what's happening there, That's for sure. I never it's what I do want to say. Never, but it's pretty rare that we do a peace and lets say it has a huge impact. it's. I do want to say never, but it's pretty rare, that we do a peace and lets say it has a huge impact, but the things really chain
I worry about that all the time we have a lot of lip service pay to ike working to check it out. We got a guy on it, TAT you were re, investigating and then and then yeah goes away. It goes away deliver value up. way but follow yeah. We follow up, we try and then that's. Why I'm distress? Could we follow up and find out nothing there? It was a little bubble of news and and your pointing and then right back to normal. It's true in washington with legislation is over. Then then it's true in the case of these local uglies will have you not get to you know depressed and and were working on our next stories and our next stories are absorbing completely totally absorbing and we don't back there very often some may a copper yeah. I you know, I understand that I don't know there's another way to be. You know you can only do what you can.
May a copper yeah, I you know I understand, and I dont know that there is another way to be. You can only do what you can do right It yeah, and you know something: that's not our role. Our role is to keep moving forward and some one else needs to pick up the ball when we shine light somewhere. already working for next season writers, I'm finished for this. I fear they will have an run yet I'm already working for next season cycle about about for this out. They will have an run yet, but I'm done report on her and now their wallets cycle about about the books out before you. Oh, please book, that is their grandma, both a grandma book here. This like a word now. Will you a good mother. not particularly, but joys and science of the new grandparent anger, but you asked me if I was a good mother. I was working I'm in grandma the joys science of the new grandparent anger, but you
asked me if I was a good mother. I was a working mother, and we don't think we're good mothers, because we have this image we working mothers that are good mothers. There yeah, I think my daughter would probably tell you. I was a good mother. I sent on our case twenty four seven, because I wasn't there twenty four hours and you turned out- ok, turns out great, but now I think what we underestimate is your kids are pretty resilient. Do in there right loved her. I took care, I guess you know it's it's it's interesting. I dont know what your role as usual. Your mother is- and you know I guess people do the best I can do is so they say. Let you know What we underestimate is your kids are pretty resilient to and they're gonna there their own people, so they need a lot of times they find their way. If it's not abusive well enough, I met Somebody was taking care of my daughter, my husband worked at home. We had day care from what you know of a nanny here an end. I think that my self worth was not tied up
with her success meant a lot she was. You know I wasn't honor something to do out of school every day you now she had gymnastics and painting and all of that stuff she would find their way more we're themselves, although I did keep her pretty busy I was hoping that if she had something to do after, Well, every day you know she had gymnastics and What would it? What is familiar leg? What are some of the advice? You have four new grandmothers. Why would allow approach to this markets? Not an advice book has. I am the last person believe me. Anybody wants to take advice from as apparent What is some your leg? What are some of the advice you have four new grandmothers way would allow approach to this markets. Not advise book has. I am the last person believe me: anybody wants to take advice from as a parent or even a grandparent. I it's kind of a sixty minutes That's another one! Seeing your baby have a beer
First of all, why do grandparents have this physical love for their grandchildren? It's it's. Full body for sea, sick and chances, part of west responsibility in someone's, let that's another, one seeing your baby have a be in saying that they do a good job as part of it are one where parents, where policemen we have the whip you little to shape. You can't do this clean up your other great vegetables, and when you're a grandparent, your job, your whole job is to say yes, just love period that send who else is gonna love? my grandmother was very important to me. it's a very important and it's to say yes and just love period that's an who else is gonna love you that who else is going to think that you put your right foot shoe on your right foot. Amazing! You are genius right. Who else is going? Tell you perfect and every-
I didn't think when I started the book here, then that there was a whole book without grandparents and then I would talk to someone they take me in a whole new direction. I kept going in new directions, step grandmother. grandparents and then I would talk to someone they take me in a whole new direction. I kept going new directions: step grandmothers, surrogate, thing, because when we hold our little babies, we are our best Are our brains, change and we are infused with a high hold our little babies. We are our brains, change and we are infused with a hormone called oxytocin, and that makes you just no, how many animals have grandmothers only three with better. In the king in the animal kingdom, when you can no longer reproduce. You die right, so elephants whale
with the only three ma? I wonder you they all feel the same. We do assumed I'll watch and the role in all three cases, the deliberate role why we have grandmothers here, baby sit baby sitting at her sister, even with grandma yeah? oh why we have grandmothers here baby sitting exactly sure, even with grandma, yeah and they're happy they're, happy babysitters and you don't have to pay them well and we don't say no, that's right. Well, look I I, it sounds great of his great talking. You haven't had a good job with the interview. Did I I loved it. I loved it I think I was smiling serious smart. I presume you come in and you know take care and enjoy your grandchildren. Thank you marked. That was me and was we stall nice talking,
I know music today, except for that, take care of yourselves and other people around boomer lives, one
Transcript generated on 2022-09-02.