Not every global pop superstar would feel at home in Marc's garage, but Lorde isn't your average global pop superstar. The singer-songwriter takes some time before kicking off her worldwide Melodrama tour to talk with Marc about her life in New Zealand, her frequent collaborator Jack Antonoff, and the math of making pop music. They also go down a music rabbit hole as Lorde reveals herself to be a knowledgable student of classic rock, power pop, rhythm and blues, and Phil Collins.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
All right. Let's do this, how are you what the fuckers, what the fuck bodies, what the fuck am ears, what the fuck a delicate, what the fuck next what's happening I mark mare in this, my pod gas, w tia thousand going so today on the show. What I I don't know. It's certainly not an off the grid guest, but it might not be a guest You would assume I would have on the show the singer and song writer and pop phenomenon she's great lord, lord, is here What was she was? I talked to the other day. She was here this garage with me, sitting right over there, big pop star, lord and I'm old, but I gotta be honest with you I'll tell you why I like her a lot.
I actually love her voice. She moves me. What can I tell you so when I the opportunity to talk to her. I took it Buddy John Daniel, who you've heard on this show is, actually her manager right now at this point, his company in him. If, but I don't know, came through, and it must have come through him somehow, but yeah we get pitched great. And unlike I've, I've talked to Lord. I like lord. She worked a lot of new album with Jack Antonov who I've had on the show. Why also like you know, I'm not a pop fanatic, I can certainly appreciate it. I'm always a sort of surrounded by people that manufacture the big pop music. So that's going to happen that's going to happen right in ears here in a minute, I'm going to talk, the lord I know it's weird right. It was weird for me to believe me felt a little nervous. So a generation of difference but I can hang with the the youngsters with the folks, the young people I can
the special is up and out my spirit, go to real is a bon netflix and you can go watch it, I'm very happy with it. I'm proud of it. It looks good It's a whole piece of work. People are, yet I'm getting a lot of good feedback I appreciate it and I'm glad you like it, I'm glad you're getting some laughs. It's very laugh efficient. This special. What else is happening still no nicotine man still no nicotine- and I you know it's made me a little- I'm not sure what happening now? I'm drinking tea cuz. I got off the coffee with the nicotine and I'm not. I don't think I'm very good. and you always tension to ordering online, because I, like the pd tips, I like the british tee. Saw ordered some british tea, but bay rise that I got, bag of
one thousand one hundred and fifty t bags. So this fucking pillow sized bag, delivered to my house and like this is too much pressure like That's a lifetime's work between! I would only mean that I dont know how much on and drink. I don't drink it everyday that tee cut out with me at this point in that kind of by me because then this bag of one thousand eleven hundred he bags becomes is harbinger of doom, like I am I going to out with this bag t that works it's just a lot of pressure. I've got a little tent I can put like sixty seventy bags in then there's another Oh Heaven hundred this the problem with bulk. It's too much pressure. it's the nicotine. The lack of nicotine is not helping clarity per se is what I'm and also there. There comes the question of. Where's it going to go next.
You know when you have an addictive personality like in, you if you really got it any Rita one skin it what's where's, whereas where is it going to show up welcome all business so we're Going to come out, I mean it's either going to it's going to be like, I guess good lord on the show coming up here and I the this can be people listening by with this addiction thing. First, I try to avoid it if you're, young person in your listening- don't vape the nicotine. So I lifelong commitment try to Not do the math, because, again teeth fall out and your hair fall out the weed is a little insidious. Maybe you can handle it. Fine, if you like it. Okay, maybe you don't think big deal to some weed or vape some weed every day, but become your life and it can it can it can since you from reality so stay where that lay off the opiates. I guess that's that
do I want commitment. If you live If you don't know me and you just tuning in I've got eighteen years sober, but I was when the nicotine lozenges for a long time and now I've taken them away so either start eating, which I've already begun. The eating has commenced the. In the pile whole constantly has already commenced, and now it's just a matter of preparing and of healthy food to shove into my face when I eat compulsively? You are mad now lot of work in the kitchen throughout stuff. prepared sweet potatoes, yams mushrooms, I cooks. Cabbage brown rice carved chopped a hickam up. That's that's not an easy thing to get that skin. If a so now, I've got all these healthy snacks on just shoveling that into my face. So that's active now the one you got to worry about is the one that we keeping our pants. That addiction can be a little more. We thankfully I have girlfriend
you know, there's always the internet, and no way to spend a day and feel good about yourself. You don't want to spend a day you had just pull that thing, a rubbing it that thing you know I mean it's it's I said I'll get your way, but I'll finish feel great, I'm trying to right now looks like we're moving moving stuff into the face which can become a problem. it's all part of a bigger cycle it over there. Eventually, I'm gonna, be I got his africa. The venture idea maybe have a cigar and then eventually you're going to hear me. Sucking on those wasps angie's again. I've certainly got enough tea that I can tell you. so lord lord lord. Yes, lord is here now be honest with you, I enjoy lords music, and seek it out and
Sometimes when I'm working out at the gym with my trainer I have her put on a lord station there. this time. I saw lord I saw her at that and when they do indeed, induced. nirvana would somebody please They induce nirvana in they d into their. I can roll hall of fame. They inducted and lord the song, and I was like one who is this girl? What is happening? What is this voice? What is its intensity? What what is it? how and when is where? Where does it come from and then I saw her and ass an long ago and I'm like there. She is again What is this voice? What are these fees? applause see I'm using the language. What are these I'm feeling. and I tried to try to read: I brain or on something that is very hard to explain, you can't just going
why do you move me with that voice of yours? Where does that come from youngster? That's not the right approach, but I think I did all right album melodrama came out in june and the men drama world tour kicks off later this month. This was recorded just three days after the vms, where she did her flew inspired, dance and, on the mend a bit when this was recorded. Still little will fully that's where we're at this is me and lord, and those ladies come those hot. Ladies, the drip doctors do know about those who want to drink the water. You can just pay these ladies two hundred dollars and they will come and just shoot you up. This cocktail could be for a hang of it.
It'd be a semi professional sports person, and why would they be twelve? It's like all the all the basil, the says, all the all the electrolytes. You know, but it's like the sound of a corner they like in their little uniforms. They're like so cute. You know, and such are. It seems like such a hollywood thing remains solid facts I mean you could not find, new zealand. They wouldn't do that. That is, I hoping it. Sir, can help me complete, or no I mean how you're gonna write ass or good. How can it be bad? Vitamins are good. I think it's fine right. I think it's like the real question is so ok, so you are about to do with this before you did the veer measure after this was maybe an hour and a half preview. Maize, just the time you want to have a drip directly. So if you like an ivy drip sin, I ve drip. Yet, push it in so like what I want to know is like what was it like. What's probably,
interesting than them coming or whatever that job is like emergency holistic, emergency holistic practitioners, economies, the eye yeah. Yeah is that, like was who, like the real question like who knew them. Who was like? Oh, I know who we got call on which handlers which which, which which department did that come from haha yeah? I have a lot of a departmental heads, my eye just sort of like I mean made to a manager handles people way fancier than I am and is like very used to not my friend, not john, No, this is sad. His name is richard coble. After, like he's looked after a lot of lake famous divas in history, like I mean You know like Madonna, a really really like the whole. Also he's really is run quite a circus. He's He used to like, I think, asking for a vitamin drip. It three p m on their data we made.
that's easy, no problem! I know exactly who to call yeah yeah the doctor, the disposing of a body thing. That's a little trickier, even would be. Okay with that, of course, I will make it as a tour manager yeah. I got a guy what what january in Oklahoma city, I know a guy you're exactly so what you start, Googling like war was the panic what you come up with. What what did you self diagnose? Well, I thought that I had toxic shock syndrome which woman is afraid of you. Get it from lake. Using tampon was That's go with thing I didn't of those I mean, I don't know. I read about one girl who had some amputation from my shot. I think I might that's just really day in my mind, but as I ever go secret fears that begin to get toxic shock, I guess you're. I guess that like to me- and I knew the too stressed about now, I know I've decided on problems if it generally, but I mean I I remember hearing about that alive and then just sort of
was out of the news, but why wouldn't it still be frightening to women yeah? I decided I had that and I was apparently get itchy hands and feet and I, like my foot, started to itch and I was like: that's it, the big shows cooling, your this summoning me up to the big show of the ties. Would you call it the big the big show yeah pop on up to the big you don't want to be sick when you get to the big show? No, no so have you been in town for I've been in town since last wednesday, and you come here or what about as little as I can help yeah yeah, what's your feeling about, like when you come down, I mean look. I you ve been added since you're, right, thirteen and yet your entrance, that you mean you understand to some degree what your business looks like from the top. All you know you, you kind of came in at that. You know there, but I still find it late very.
I know it's gotta be weird, spotlights me ill at ease. It's still a strange thing. but I made one part of it: you ending away the car comes. Went in l, a paparazzi are at the airport. Other there. So you dream about pop rats. He for the next two other guns, eight lord or, of course, and the lord will be yeah, but they like right call you by your face. Oh never know it's always one. Am I supposed to call you because I was sort of awkward really bad. I didn't even make that up you when you was shouting lord lord and I was walking down my hill you're, going down the hill and down that hill, nothing just the patio I should have chicken shed their people have chickens around here. It's a very hip! Did you grow up with chickens? I did not grow up with every other. Animal is yours. You can imagine like worsen
thing from dogs cats address a lot: oaths dogs, cats, getting out of rats, mice, baby mice, what's acts alot of an ex a lotta was like a walking water snake. Oh my god was Is that a patent new zealand? That's a chill pit yeah there are a lot of their exploiters bumping around we had it all. We had literally it. We had many fish as your fish. We got a lot of pith. So so what do people call? What is your name? What should I call? My name is Ella ella Yes, just our exactly alright, so I'm yelling lord, like an idiot yeah, I live just around exam like that. Of course, it's not what you mock your mark is my good. I I'm sorry jack antonoff,
If he goes we're going to the physis, though I'm like come on, I maya it's been man. Yours, australian and it's hard not to make fun of it. I get it. It's different, if you're at yours is a little. It's like it's it's like austrian, but then just a little further tweet like it makes perfect sense. in the proximity difference in the accent right. Yes, as you can tell the difference, right, o deeply, I so you get passed away. Proper oxy. They jerk they drive you after the fancy hotel. It's just it's like so far away from let what my life is and I think I mean just new zealand in america, such different places, It is something of a guy there get used to it. My life, how many people are like I'm coming is Do you know a neighborhood? I should live in, I'm about ready to how how people have hit me up. I've been like, I have a spare room. You know,
you can take turns in my spare room and it's so fucking crazy how different it is, and even like you nope every product here. I feel like is like. Going at the yelling, but the yelling, and this like voice that makes me feel like an idiot doing no out cheese? You know the fuck. Is that even a an like just tell me the product? You know what I mean like to weigh the american economy is built on making sure we later in new content, constantly mass agreed or they do they mass gives a more practical there, like I much more petrol, but also like, I think, is a thing here which is like they. Wouldn't you like if you give Riyadh here it can be an ad for like children's vi men's and any like may cause or you
list of curious. Don't do that! Yeah! That's like a was like! Oh my god, we're really going there laid out right away. Yeah and internal bleeding. Can fucking go there right on tv, never ending diarrhea! Yes, yes, active active diarrhea as they call it and when you're a stay at a hotel, they say to swim in the pool. If you have active diarrhea, I've, never heard that my life, where go to any active we saw he would that little sign will say: do not swim with active area. It says were made I didn't know, really snaps you out of that that, like my tail, riverine fact nerves you out of your spot day, hey just wondering who is like use active, active in not following the rule. That is so. We need to talk about new zealand. Yes, you want to know you just live there: neighbourhood and neighborhood. I lived there in enable its, but you grew up there. Are
I grew up in my homeland. It's beautiful right! Everything about it is beautiful. I mean it has problems like any contriving. What well we have a real we have a housing crisis going on right now, which sucks and it's or that mean too many rich people bought up. Houses pretty much I'll. Definitely part of that problem. Well? You are bought a house in the last two years, yeah it's it's hard for young people to to to buy houses and into rent. Now your parents are both from new zealand. My parents are both new zealand. My mother's question. How did she get there? How did the croatians get to new zealand vera? They are actually like this, like a hungry thousands of dalmatian croatia in yugoslavia, people and they ve been there for generation. A lot of them of differ. Long tat is a lot of wine, a hot omissions, nickel or wine. Valliere ends. I yes, I'm I'm gratian creation.
citizenship, yeah, and I just get that from being croatian, because your mom's curry, I got them from being, like I think, of like a bit of a fancy famous croatian, not a very they're they're, taking ownership so to speak. Yeah and my dad's irish The irish are from ireland. He no. He he's born in new zealand also, but he I his family's, like full irish. You know there are corners that one of seven catholic for catholic, exactly exactly catholic treatment exactly and your mom catholic, he's a shoes. I think she sort of I think they grew up a greek orthodox and very religious, but it's we're not really a religious family or not more abstract. I say that more abstract the religion, I don't, I feel, walk into a church.
Is it the goals they try to make their journey? There is designed to terrify you into being humbled yeah, I'm I'm so spirit. I feel like I'm so late in touch with the universe and especially women. I don't get it. when you walk into a church and just shuts it right off. It says yeah, but it has a high elaborate enough to make you trying to trick you into thinking. That's the universe. Maybe yeah. Have you been ITALY? I have have you ever gotten. Those cathedrals in italy we just like one. It may be. That would take it to a level. I would understand why dont know if it'll make you feel any better, that's worth, but it certainly designed to create all. I am informed times a fan of of the yacht of the office. Well, yeah the beauty, terror. Ah right, intersection yeah, you know, but it does need to be all gaudy yeah. I think it being a goddess. I mean it doesn't get more gaudy than like a giant beach unusual,
I know where the waves it just like smacking him, you know is that I can well imagine that have not been wherefore. I've been there are strong and that that means nothing. I know that's almost condescending for me to say that I was I was close. it's relatively close to new zealand yeah you gotta get down there, I'm going to be so. I'm going to I'm going to show up at your house and be like hey remember to do that ha ha. We hung out a spare room here, just book it, but but what you grow up with like what was your mom like what? If it wasn't religious house. Did you what what inspired you when you're a kid? You know like walker, what was your, what did they lay on you, your parents? What did they lay on me? for better or for worse fear of life. They just, I think, like my main thing when I think about it, is like my mum is poet. She was a I'm a schoolteacher and was she a real poet?
it's real but she's a big deal. She's, like a real poet like I won awards in new zealand like her she's amazing, a lot of books out she's, put books out yet she's put she isn't putting out in awhile, but they are all like big deals when she puts them out she's bad ass, yeah, and but I think oh, I can imagine behind it, but your songwriter, I mean you do know it's so different though I'm writing short stories. Writing or writing poems, but so what? What kind of form does she is? She like free, verse or she was tightly structured like she's she's, pretty she's, pretty free verse, yes,
yeah. She so good and you're. Reading our poultry like when you were a kid I wasn't, but I think what she really instilled in me was this lake seemed saree kind of like magnification, like Aigner, am such I'm so governed by all of my seats, as in all the work that I make your I have like crazy. Since these are in light of the synergies, yours I cannot win like caesar's. Overlaps of me am colours and I textures in tones correspond with music and words and kind of linguistic staff and oral stuff. So how does that manifest itself? I could do like go into an overload or like when you hear certain sounds you see. Things are a lot. It's a lot like to have do you have to stop talking? Sometimes I have to yeah I medicate herbal. I wish I actually do wish sometimes very overwhelming
I feel like when it's overwhelming, to have that I mean it it it. It like guides a lot of the music that I make sure I make very visual music theory like colorful yeah. I music so like for me when something is like just. Like pink. You know o travilla on your heat blueberry room like heading in the right direction, but it can be a law and it is like had to a sickly after make music. My eyes could like as a lot. I can't you know. Some people have tvs going in this area. I would that's impossible, because my girlfriend has, as the hyper sensitive anything were noises caddis, yeah, h, adamant. I forget what it's called, but it's a real thank. Yet it's real. If you go into an echoey room like I gotta get outta here, yeah yeah, I I when I'm in I've, been in a couple of near car crashes and both times the person next to me has said Why did you put your hands of you, is instead of your eyes, even though most people would not work?
look, but I didn't want hear it like that, out with soap, is too potent. So how did you like what if the music were you listening to as a kid were. You know this when you destroy your brain, I mean everything, sort of destroys one's brain. You know what is quite good facilities. This shit is weirdly, guitar music is not so overwhelming in terms of sonic. Listen to acoustic attire music? You me, like, I, could listen to kneel younger. I could listen to even fleetwood. Mac was not so over wellmere, sinister might how which, which error for your back girls. I only back with we would I go way: fucking bag with I'm back, I blues, I'm peter green. I mean I was just saying is tat. Was that need some peter green fleet would make much because they have room as we would mac merge, IRAN's or tangle of we would manage I just bought the peter green fleet would appear green and I didn't even know about I would argue about him constantly. I'm obsessed with, we would make green and I think you have to think of them is due to them.
there is really a little showed. The liberator should have added a sort of and to start as a room is fluid mac then magazine tire and music genesis, italy, I didn t like the genus, as you have been by the other thing, would genesis like those guys note like Peter green, becomes this mysterious figure out like say: did you see the documentary? I have not seen it I've heard about it. I got to see it it's you can just watch it on youtube. It's a man, man of the world cup of ceased to. A little chubby guy now, like an old like a little older dude. I wish people gave him more credit. I I never. If you know anyone who knows about beer great, I never shut up about it. It's the best and he's the best singer, the best blues player this, or that It was a little more that's a bit intense and aesthetically, but so like stuff growing up that I at which I sort of all just come back to now like when crosby stills, nash and young. You know sure all that lately just a simple grey.
listen to you, like Graham nash person You don't know he was still spasm. I can do I like It was even more of a stills, grimness and slave for the lady. I guess is very useful to most. It's a monkey yet still says like. I like stills. His early guitar plays great singer. I had crosby in here he's great shit. You said things about? You is a randy newman, make it it's really yeah he's like I'd. Like your write, a song for I like to write a satirical song for like someone like lord elmwood rain. He said that said, yeah thanks ranging you may rainy newman's great, so you go back those guys, yet the harmonies and stuff you of it yeah. So I sort of like well that and a lovely mamas and the papas like that gets a little bit intense synesthesia wise for mamas, and the papas is because of other voices. Well, just not the voices by em. You know well you for this is crazy modulation going on with we're in
front king in its like that, can get racy. Since these wise, put on mothers and fathers that's like here and the illegal, but is it? Is it a good feeling emulate sucker talks again its community tierra horrific in its wonderful, it's very valid its built in its full, you built in you, don't have to go outside yourself there getting off the strain. It says what I'm doing without find Peter green. Now, like now, you mind you just reigners you'd gotten each summit return you on- and I remember I got into this- I was only youtube and like a youtube hall, when I was at fourteen found the sir Just like a twenty minute wake and leads us must have had some way. Might going in there just suitable here, just sort of talking to everyone in the sort of start, the sort of depth of sadness. Feeling in his playing and his singing eyes. Sort of mine boiling of fact show? Is
Oh yeah, that's a great source of an integrated just with the eu to play that before before. Performed a down on my mac, so men yeah love that one it's It's gonna be one to find it yeah executive right, that's. Why is it that bizarre little clip on youtube the sort of thing like talking to each other and building it, and I was the way that I have a little with the degree, all building the song. What's that experience cause, I notice like like when I was working at the credits, because I've talked to antonov before and he's like a little wizard, and you know I like his whole store It's kind of amazing, amazingly such an amazing but it's also got an incredible feel for things like the difference between what is it still true and and bleachers is kind of profound yeah and that, like he just sort of at you know he kind of appropriated this sort of hippy trip to to ease him through grief, absolutely and then like he was you of done with it is like he looked. He didn't look back on that that album or those albums with, but he obviously is.
Gun, an amazing talent and intuition for music. So when you see something like the green and those guys just building up from a song I do it cause. I noticed on the credits it there were no I looked in at an hour. I lived in a month, maybe I'm working period. There were people involved, but it didn't say who played the instruments, people mixed or for it- was a bunch of producer listing yeah yeah boy who the fuck is playing piano. What's going on, that's a good question fucks going on so so our process is like and everything with me stats lake in the smallest possible Yesterday, I didn't like to write with anyone in the room like it's very minimal. You know really just be two bodies and that will be jack and I and the bridges. Show up with the songs. For the new record, I would show up with a big arms of them. I liked him and wits have happened in a room because they think it can be kind of amazing and we would sort of sit at the piano and kind of
Things would stop growing and then, like a lot of that product, yeah stuff is because we lady women now room rugged. Have we seen devout, get it back at the session? Take tiny little moments at them to our like one of those moments are gonna be like for me like a record some guitar, and here he might be a good thing to do things are, are much more complicated if they ever level that electronic music, like it all, gets a bit kind of weird I mean. Obviously jack is playing a lot of lake and look since all the time he played the piano the record thriller yeah yeah. I think his actual p, realty tickling the ivories played. The title is hot sense and they were just programmed much drums, and that was it.
it's kind of it. I mean my last week. I had literally not one real instrument and not one in the whole record, not even at a nice analog synth, we were fucking Brooke, I just got the makes me sad why, areas magical. I think it's definitely magical her for you. I come from that like a culture of like no one having any instruments interest. What does that mean? We just like you. Sounds come from computers in life? You know what I mean. It's kind of. I think it's a really magically something kind of like communist about it, like you, don't have to often as you get I like more into music like it. You know I started making like a second album which, by that point people like should we show you some rich staff and they, like put you in the rich studio unitary. Are you like the rich mixing? The asking you like this doesn't feel like
like any kid? Could you know I love the sure of you plugins. I got like you're from the internet right and like that's how we made the song that, when it's a gram, it's literally cracked plugins that that's how you made royals yeah- and you didn't you didn't and he didn't pay for brussels deliver like a year after that we should stop paying for this thing. Brazil's we pay now, it's! I guess it's not a culture that I come from. You know I don't play any instrument, well I freely, but I kept it like din children, the shit out of a drum. You know your year. If that's what you grew up doing yeah, but you didn't when you first started singing a writing songs. When did that start? I guess I know it's all in has to be relative. Recent memory
because you're when I started singing and stuff yeah I mean like, did you do it in school? Did you were you a performer or what I didn't really do it in school cause they feel like you had to know how to like great music school, which I couldn't do, but I was like in and out of the lake. Is there isn't the barbershop room like putting together some crazy, barbershop quartet paste, which I feel it's very much my roots. Now you know I'm like stacking vocals, like how you're like what's the barbershop room into a quartet musa sure I can oh yeah yeah yeahs. Are you putting together like baritone and bass and so you're doing that by I gazed bleeds. Now I be without the other louder singing nerds under so humans evolved the way that sometimes other humans evolved, and I did I like a theatre company. When I was a kid like a local kids, theater, kids, theater so you're a show person. I was somewhat to show person, but I was like clearly movers and like would have to steps.
So far outside of myself. For that to even be something I could do I am even now I like that had for me. So let me be an outward person. Is it so, do you have to go into like a trance almost because it's when you perform it's very engaged in very, like you know like it, has an effect, that's what they say yeah yeah mosaic that makes people very uncomfortable. I could have em in joint looking at this hammer, just as aside know, what's going on with this burden broken hammer, yet it was a baby. I think I like Peter green it shorted off when they are used for your greener, artifact effectually peter green tamar. Are you have found on the street. I like that. I don't need this piece is declared. I cannot yet that's it. pressed record right there that aren't bit o fact. If that's what you shall, that's it that's right before they squish it into a record, that's amazing. Is I've never seen that before I love that
Sorry, I cut you off, I know yeah, but was bringing yeah, I mean it sire I really have to just I'll, all the way out of the rest of my life, in all the way into that and like totally live inside it tomorrow and do it yeah? Do you do you choreograph do know? I mean I, I choreograph a dance for the first time it amaze the other day. So you don't do that kind of show one I used to let happen, have fun all of a sudden you'll think it's great I'm on my knees. The grass and you can a few hundred meters away from Mr H, where they get back yeah. Does that happen? Do you go that far? I run. I really run as an fyi. I've gotten way five before, and it feels good to do that.
If anything, I always take my shoes off down there as well, when, when you perform yeah, if it looks like there's not going to be a bunch of like used syringes down there, I'll just take a shoe, often yeah yeah go for a run. That's good! I'm glad that you're at least care so so doing, barbershop music with other nerds you're in school, your performing a bit, but in some there must have been. You know. How does it come together that you start writing and performing music? It wasn't all electronic the beginning. Now good, though been pretty. It was it's way less electronic. Now like right, the fact that I had late you know I have had this big renaissance with like with this sixties and seventies, guitar, music and yeah. You know I am at like a truly come from a very hip, hop free electronic backgrounds and and and the vocal stuff was kind of the the main live element for a long time, but I dunno I. I was
If I got into it. I guess, like I started where I mean it was just a voice with a singer: there's never been a guitar guy in your life, ha ha a guitar guy you know. The guy that plays guitar I mean it was like. I did like a handful of you know. I played some light covers when I was a well yeah short time but you're saying that, like it was a long ago, but there's like a year before you became a solid nine years ago? Back I will have you know where you are on the aid yeah yeahs. I think when I was fourteen. I said the late prophet. writing music. I was for we wrote rose. I was fifteen and way his way Joel and I, Sir Joel, was and may the guy who a first started, writing songs with, and he was you know him for yourself. We met in new zealand is a new zealander yeah. He lives in l, a
well he's a producer he's a vicious amazon radio. Did he even find you he did not. We were introduced and I like basically was sort of approached by the record company, because you are perfect I mean where, because I they saw me singing at school talent to at least or video of it like highschool intermediate school, so that's junior, high yeah sort of yeah, so they're like see that somebody said someone's. Did you go to someone as parents, but word tailgate? There said this is the guitar. I short lives at moment of guests. Had I his parents, your eyes, actually seated in microbes like what are you doing out day? You do as labour. It's like. We want you to be a lawyer like don't do that you're on the days with that guy in his parents shot it s, time, tat, china, anything time it he's playing guitar- he's playing the guitar. They was Louise, very sweet boy. Okay, now,
Are you guys still friends, I I am going to he lives in different country now, but I'm going to Tracy I'm onto oh okay yeah, so Louise. I louis parents are like these kids got somethin and they send it in. a friend of their soon. They know where I'm I'm actually like that part of it is widely unclear to me and it something that have never like pursued as just one of those busily moments of face. I think, but a long time the rigour company late we want you to do. This thing- and I was like no thanks. I don't, and what was the thing was so funny they initially were like all we could? You say you know just stopped you? You know just like seeing a bunch of old school songs are loved. I mean she was wonderful, but an ina. I knew that. I was already writing the NW and, like you know, making my own clothes like my room was just a insane fucking collage face like it was never going to be like everything we like sit down and sing like a change is gonna. Come you know what I mean
I was like Lemme just make your own think about a way this is going to work, and so they sort of introduced me to a couple of songwriters. Then I met Joel right. Then I realized oh fuck. I've just met the rest of them. I like this is what I'm going to do for the reason he impressed you this. He he just he he showed me what it was that I could buy. He didn't understand how a fucking compulsive writing a song is and having it tick. A really boxes, to take in your brain, and that was like the first will really make my since these are in a big way, writing songs and still is drugs. You know seeing and just sitting in the studio and chasing it from eighteen hours. Cuz. You like me, just have to get this thing down like I was like. Oh god it's very clear to me I've, like that admit, the thing that is going to compel me for the rest of my life was so like when you talk about challenge like that. Like cause I've only
recently watch the the Jimmy ivan- oh yeah, doctor dre thing, you seventeen hours on a song like like going. Ok, let's take a song I'm sure you talk about royals enough relates like what's now that you know this is The new album when the single is greenlight, which eyesight remind me that I, like you, because and the one my only experience really in it has been visual both times and singing, but it was with within nirvana the induction right. Like that's the first time I saw your, I was like what what is happening. me too, because those algeria, what am I doing stupid by birth rate, the challenge of assigning. That's your sitting with jack now wait. What do you do for seventeen hours? So you have words and what what's the nit picking,
all the nit, picking I mean like went logic, would happily not net picked the level that I I mean I'm just I really come from such a like a great listen to all the slack classic seventies music, and I also just was absurd- with pop music. I was a kid in the pop music time ever, which was even right. Okay, you like fine, well Take the eighties. Our ignore these garters. Tell me, as I and I mean just you know it was like- was the timberland mocha areas like you know, we have now if a tide of making sure the most profound pop music of the two thousand like it is just You know we ve just until blake. Makings of these views takes love sounds like right. It is over. That was your aspiration. I just I saw how powerful it was when you really believe.
in the light tenements made me stick to the rules of it like like what what are the rules? Just like you know, if you extra syllable, onto something to avert a pop song or are fit in a word that doesn't I, when you sing it like you're, just shooting yourself in the foot, you have to be so When you look at it, I hope to right. I mean even in wales. I think on the first day at when magnitudes may, back time is on its like magnum of champagne, but maggie may back. That's the fucking saying like, even if you want the word magnums a there christa crystal, is this shit like that that you have to obey, and so I really like so the material. This comes from light dark. Well, you don't now guy
sick. Why don't I just making an example, my all that civil rights, the album so late, with the sunlight, green light? It's like it's just that I'm very specifically, tints isn't subjected yeah just you can just say this. It sounds good number. No, no, because using that tints completely transforms this like whitewash then an or now kind of thing I don't know just like little things so the first book at first this goes, I do my makeup in somebody else's couch is like a specific vineyards in my life literally sitting in the front seat, trying to do my layer in the different boys caf areas. Is that very like boom, your new relationship? Second vs suck as I do, may make amends when his next one is, Sometimes I wake up in a different. In a tiny little things that, since your pop song, together india in the best way yonder their poetic and asian they have that they have legs, there's map, but the images.
I think so yeah their heads. They think they're very concise I think the air I I am late, the biggest cover head of all time. We like you, I can t I like it. I can t, I said if you like raymond car, for tighten sad and that's the live, dancing and crying titans, let's say yeah, but so there was like four years between these records right. What are you doing having a life. I was They worry people again on that first record on napster here when you re like what is it? Let me find it on the table. had been less into its ok you're you're in the year you're an easier artist, research there's only two fuckin recorded theory, good, you know I'd, even if I, even if I like somebody here doing you, get paid a greening and if the way I've had no young- and here I know she- I've had people with like you think that we have
you weren't? You love fibre, they're ready, I maybe they have ten records in yellow, look like others, ninth out dear, but yes, we'll giant, but you it's missing, though it's too records but like I because I talk to anti off, and I know that this math you're talking about it's, what a fascinating the idea of fully cautiously making a hit record. Do you know I too, to try to make em pop song yeah yeah You know I can, and I in I, when I heard green light for the first time. I saw you on essential and it gave it goes into the like that. Caribbean gather free, chasse moment area like this can be good. I'm moving around. yeah I can come was that was that and the like, because the song is about moving on right. So where the island theme come from the island fame. Well, I would say it's more french than
and I'm going to I'm going to hold it to that okay part of the world, but I dunno know was just like an interesting vibe that sort of actually came from jack that the idea of that french piano kind of knocking in yeah? It felt so sort of joyous, yeah, important, Is there an idea you had in the moment that was part of building the song yeah? I think that was the words already they came. We had. I had the actually. I have the first verse It's like was in another song here in this really different context, and I had the that said that you would always be in which is very like a single as syria that it did that, whether the aid as they had like a lot of its would have coming together and the kind of introduce that piano pattern humor away his jack ryan, like referencing that he knows where you're going with these references. Is he contributing references Definitely I would like play him. You know
I'd play him at shangri la staff, writer, yam yeah. We eat the heat differently. we don't sit around playing a load of references, but we do will put. It will take a lot of songs to the piano. So we'll take like a high note across resells nash, in which one tear it apart, like which one enjoy those guys most separated get the most out of them. people I mean like we would play our house and light, Oh yeah work these little things that make it such a special on the idea of sweet song. Graham's image done, but I think cosby's, a big healthy tracing the sweet. I if you tweet Adam, Can I can I can my heroes too stressful? For me my fear, is that I'm gonna meet pull Simon somewhere and just
is Paul Simon, how fucking good is poor assignment and how underrated, I don't think, he's underrated. I think he's done alright for himself. I think you gotta worry, I don't think people, I think people think of him as late, not one of the cool guys, but he is cool guys I think, there's true and I wonder why that happens too. I get so. I could also, I quite on more people know appear green I've taken the pie so for the last five years to champion peter grow more iranian in Paul Simon gets a little trick. We're a yeah. It's easy to. I can. I can understand why people don't like I go like lately. I've been championing his very first record, a bit. Oh okay. Me to wait very, very hard, Okay, can we just have a moment to talk about run that body down? Oh my god. How good is around that body to hell yeah? I mean it's crazy. That really does it because they love baby pool. So many sad I mean like duncan, he sounds like a little baby kills. Does he sound? So you don't think about that man who's going to sing he's the child from
first maids and you can even you- can barely picture when that kid? It's I put you down, I'm like oh there, yet you can see the kid that's going to say that Paul, you do do do do do do do do to think the ticker on that body down yeah, oh man, I see things that you can do with you. Boone do ou, say: okay, good yeah! I do I tell our current. We now moved him on a me out, but you did what we had. We sound, so this is making great slain documentary he's driving back and forth from what more talk or something and is this type in his car, and it sat lady Psmith like mombasa any here. We can't find the source of the tape, and so he has to go to one brother, then be let find the sentence like so far russian earlier, like a blank tape and they have to find it, but he says I in baseball voices. What is this tape? This is my favorite tape and we put it.
The album that makes so happy that he's on the lake graceland was really. I listen to it in a sort of way listen to it in a while and so sort speak smacked me across the house, in the way that, like you know, may beautiful dark twisted fantasy did when I was like twelve, which won the kanye record. That was the pink cover you know yeah and it's sort of like. Can you record great platinum is so fucking, succinct and like this is what it is. It's just so kind of It was pretty amazing. I mean the best and yeah and I just sort of listen to that, and I was like oh these disciplines are what I need to apply in this record. I gave me to just keep it simple enough but simple, but keep tighten sad kind said saint man tightened said how much like ok, so you were doing forever because else, came out when you're like what for fourteen thirteen fourteen xyz actually succeed when it kicking, ok, see toward
the union really have much time and between these records very contacts? Will we started story? That was the question we hit on literally out our going. It allows rapport german for your strong pull around it. So I was turning the lake. Almost two years after that came out. I stopped touring you wanted to, though you weren't being like Two I didn't, but do find it. It takes a lot out of me. Touring You go all over the world or we go everywhere. I think we are going to hit every continent antarctica yeah. And how do you? How do you handle that on the road you just take care of yourself? I mean: do you just like you're, not you're, not party, and by I mean it is not really have a debt like a structured, the who do you like? I don't sleep very well, so I find it difficult yet I think
do buses and hotels, we do buses at the buses quite a good sleeping tool. We do buses in in america and then we do hotels, a lot of other places and yes, so he did that records yeah vien. It was early. Twenty, fifty I row with people around nothing, really, I'm done anything, nothing I have another album's worth of stuff to write anything on anyone else's records. Did you show up people? I did one thing he does on my friends who I am disclosure who, like it and electronic acts, during all any. I created a soundtrack for the hungarian language. I was there come up. which is sort of like. Let's have this. This lord girl do this. They will eighty one db in credit song and I was like I want to do the whole album and you have to I do what I want and that man would getting an insane song from grace jones and having teenagers wouldn't use businesses greater turning up, you do. Is it so they
allowed you to curate this, and and did you were you a fan of the books, we'll find the movies I I seem seen that first movie, no moving so gripped by like how good it was, how soon It was really not buses that forget. It was all. Can a handheld the angry ass? If I can good, it was just her in the forest the whole to match rushdie. I was like I'm gonna gonna. Do that and they just what you do They. Let me do it a literally. I just did it on a wanna to us for five months and we, like how we got Simon the barn on their doing late this autumn, verse on my friend we saw it was fine. We just did all this but you did you decide Simon the bomb. I decided Simon, eleven and a half. If of all emails with 'em whoosh, Inlay writes when he writes woosh, which I saving is kind of a very simon le bon to let whoosh the email out into the atmosphere.
So you really, like you, know, you're sort of like obsessively feeding this personal rabbit hole for music. Yes, it's very selfish. It's is because they give the obvious different points of reference. I think so I think so so so kay, so you were working. In other words, it wasn't like. You took like all this time off to you, and I was writing were no. I haven't had life, I really but work as they hated feel a need to relax as workers needs time to work. It's like I'm feeding my soul. So so you know if it was just late number crunching or something that would be terrible but yeah, but once perform once you get it all together. Once the song comes together, I mean it seems like doing elect me very briny nothin brian Eno fan,
and rainy no fan, I'm a brat I need to late. I think I need to go there more to unlike Phil Collins. Like that's my pop shit on I dunno man, you know god's back yeah man look, I know the songs, they played them a lot. I don't seek them out, there's something about him personally. That annoys me really. I don't even know what it is. Are you friends with him? Don't let him know I mean I'm, I'm a I'm a troll from new zealand. Why would I have met vocally? I don't know yet. You'll meet people, you know every Y randy newman would would play piano for you happily icon hand with my favorite pop males, the guys that sell a combination of your boyfriend dad, let's fell he's your dad and he's your boyfriend okay, but I'm not going to begrudge you it, and I know that I wished you liked fell. Oh god, I talk about it.
We I'd rather sell me on Phil. Okay, give me the boyfriend anglais. What is it about which which feels solid collins songs me has inspired you the most ooh that I may think the disciplines of a lot of the real poppins of light inspired, beat retention. But the one that I would play you if we were like dark outside here would be. Take me home. Okay, it just journeys into these, like he eats singh from the pursuit of a mental patient, but it I know it's so simple, is the drums it say, save me. We, of course the dough remember eggs. A me is very always harmony area is six minutes on. Ok, I have no fire who rising and allied to go outside You gotta listen to it, lay in the rain from
I would like your amir helping me appreciate it. No, no! I can worry us and on the way to you, I am late to the party with a lot of things, because I dont know how to get in and just in just here. That's a great poignent pew. I don't know I showed you report full sugar ochre part. I can understand that near I you know it's really a personal problem, I'm having with phil, not you not, I can understand. I know that he's musical wizard, I know he's one of the magicians I get it. I think when you're like a little drum kids, you know someone like Phil Collins is like Jesus for sure just play a total of us had to ear. So this record, I'm going to I'm going to listen more intently. Now, I'm going to I'm going to take your advice, like when you talked about because what you do vocally, which is you know what you do right,
You know you, you have to have certain launching points, and you know when you just captured that moment of what he did vocally. It would make me appreciate that more o d c, because I thought well the I, but I don't even notice those things all the time like I know when, when bowie change, pitch on heroes, and I am waiting for of goliath. Yeah yeah, oh shit, of course, so You know- and I can definitely appreciate him on his nuances. Absolutely I dislike am much more interested in him as a person. So you know I've got to somehow get past my judgment. It right as they annoying little guy anglais eurythmics person, no The northern went away and align relying on the island. You like him It's he's annoying, but I can, the, u rhythmic record causa her eye, and I liked him tom pity some votes I d come round. He had, of course, states to it. Yet I yes, I got on promoting store. our two: do you have fallen with me, calling it the best, some petty, so water?
a little bit little. What's your favorite, I actually believe it. Very my dear somewhat songs off the second there's like that country, song, mystery man being on the second reading, and I think- and I like I'm, a big fan, the very first record. I love american girl, but also of the council, either so many tom patty song is yet I mean I just got the though they are just got the box very spoil. You owe you There's two boxes. Oh my god. They need the boxes. You need. The box do vinyl, no whatnot. I've had a few moments where I've put on record and I've put it on at the wrong speed. Why would you diviner you? Don't even do instruments. I done it's a little past my I mean it's like all the cgi stuff. It's not though, but I just not a not a final note to be. I would want to be oh it's! It's talk about our. I really took it out a rabbit or with the Phil dave, Stuart Tom pity. Now, I'd like to
like unrhythmic in theirs by here's that song that she does with them. I think it's on a european scale. It might be, so I'm not sure, but now it's out of the woods as with Elvis costello, oh yeah yeah. I like that. I liked that the one that I liked that, like and again it's like it's not the same with philly What yeah? I think, that's why people find it hard to get an entry point, but, like all that suffers the reason I may put me that lesbians, I can in ancient must be turned into an agent. Is the area? How little would I lie to the banana submit it is I get it? Ok, But do you think the funny thing about you, though, is, is that your voice, yo, just by virtue of of your natural gift in meant magic, is that it brings a depth to it? Somehow in q and I'm trying not to be kind and undercutting. I get that because I know that there's nothing you're going to tell me that, like oh, the reason that happens
I know my voice, yes, you. Maybe what? What do you want to not? How how do you like us? I read a couple of or what how they described your voice it's hard to describe, but it's very moving- and I guess you know, because we talked about earlier- that you're not a choreographed person you're, not a person that yeah does anything. But fully immerse yourself in the performance that you make I was very emotionally open to to having yo. It seems somewhat, though controlled raw feeling in the voice. I'm so like that's my projection right now that that sigh. I think that's right. I think it's late. I think it's a strike. Balance between total and total like the
if things meat able to like carrot in this very controlled environment is what I find really exciting. Well, that's that's the it's what makes you different and amazing is at length that you can have that. You know because you like pure pop, is great, and you know you can dance to it, and sometimes the words are cute and sometimes they'll make you laugh or cry titan said titan's, say exactly but like how much of this was like. I know it's like you know. I read some of the press is a breakup record and and whatnot. Is it Oh, are you? Are you just hitting that bell or too hard? That's a good way. I think I hit a lot of bells a little too hot and you know what I have thing where I'm like, I realise this about my music like I'm not trying to immortalized. Anyone is sought about, like in any one else. A statue remarkable man only
to crystallize my own experience? So if it's about the reaction of someone saying something which makes me feel something which makes me do something, school. Mere that's like ie is like something can be a break it. We could, but I just the p full away so fast when it comes to my you notice. I never really go to linked to describe other people like it. It's more just someone will be a key, list or something they said the moments reported yeah for a second, it's not about anything I mean. That's. I guess that's a paul Simon thing too. You know these characters appear yeah, but it really is about him personally and in the colors of near his spectrum area. In its also, you know, it seems, like a lot of good songs are cryptic another vague to to mean a lot to a lot of different things to as many people as possible, everyone's going to have their own relationship
pop song her with a lyric specially? If it's not that specific yeah I think white dancing between the specific and hyper like like you, like, even putting your makeup on someone else's car. Yes, that, like that to experience, but it means something, but it can mean like you know, I didn't automatically think it was a dude's car. I just saw that you know you. Your wife was Somehow anyone your out doing something and you weren't driving. I'm leaving a living right, ayrshire, its metaphorically and it's the right. Yet you guys I dine, and someone actually raise an interesting point, which is so way. Songs are coming from this, the since the early, what's how's the muse the change when you sat driving followed
the river down the highway through the cradle of the civil war lincoln it are. You gonna. Do that my how I'm gonna, I guess I'm gonna, do that. Are you going to take their grace? Why are you you're the delta, I gotta? Do it misread elsewhere, but but okay, so the heartache in the heartbreak was not some major, crushing turning point in your life I mean. when I was a more what happened after that I found it really transcendent. I think joyously so much more transcendent than pain. I think it's really easy to make work out of pain, everyone can make something really burnished and special out of pain, but I think choosing. Joy is like quite difficult and quite noble. It's our chic joy is not speak now. Its misery is very. I have I am a joy as you as it doesn't come easy to you. You know what I think it does because they think, like
to be as insane as I am. You have to like find something like that and just the other relief as a yeah I mean when I'm like you know like I can If that can make me cries latin deeply. Move me. Is so small and ridiculous that I have to like find an outlet fine join in the world. Also, you know really. Are you saying that you you you get em saddened by trivial bullshit? Oh man, I mean I'm just like you know. I do. I was leaving new zealand last week and I drove past this glitch sports field and, like the Son was kind of out in late. Some kids will like training for like playing soccer or something I can handle on this yeah. You know why.
I don't know, I'm just you know I've. My life is like we is. I think a lot of things are similar the thing that, like the simplicity of it or just the vulnerability of it or just like that, was just what they were doing. I mean like. I know what you're talking about how weird how normal- it can be moving without really. You know you really can attach where those emotions are coming from yeah, but like every moment, is that so I just find like too much stuff moving. So I think I have to make an effort to just bang like simple. joy in the same things, you know yeah yeah so right, so you have a problem with joy, as you say mir. Why do you think because a target you like a like, if you're prone you holding onto pain whatever it is. You there's a consistency to be an I don't know the joy has a consistency. Y. No, no! No! There's! No! There's a steady joy right here. You know and I think that pain, if you're prone to it or hold onto it. It's a control thing right, yeah! I thought so
So you know the joy thing yet, like you said it's the reason. It's not cheek, is as there's a type of vulnerability to it, your very hugh. yeah and, and I think that sort of embarrassed their wars down experience in tents, joy in your way, more than paying you let out just leave you to do this, and even as why people find what I do quite distance We must play this females thing, lay people, just I don't even know. If you know people that late so angry about me before me, the vienna, why? What did you I know you were sick. I just heard you were sick. I just danced with. oh fucking, joy and people alike, it some people like we get it. We love it. Some people like this is a fiend save that I have to watch this and, unlike all it's because you it is so private. Seeing someone experienced such joy,
true yeah. I think that's a sad thing, because it will ultimately that that, if anything, we should be comfortable with around each other's joy, I'm uncomfortable with it when someone else having it I guess I get embarrassed for them a little bit. You know, but You know you, don't you re like there's a vulnerability to area It's really. I ain't right life over their up to two, the joining very unafraid of intense joy public in here. privately yeah and that but yeah, but you got you can't, do it all the time cause. Then you know what do well done on getting one end up in the hospital that joy that they'll go. Okay, we'll just put this thing on you medicate that way: yeah! Well, don't medicate your joy and patting woods. Yes, thank you for talking to me. So much talked about a lot of stuff. Sorry for knitting ass. On that, I'm phil collins on Phil collins,
no that, like me, you got anatomy, and maybe you should all forgot. Oh what what What compelled you to cover that Paul? burke song, that beautiful report lanka, this talk about it and and there's your unsung heroes in advancing here. You know it's fun, I was I I was Someone just played me a lot of music. I never heard before lot old, music. I'd never heard, and someone played me that song and I was just like some songs. You here really infrequently and you feel leslie just you feel like you were robs. How did they get there before you they express that seems, went before you and that I was just like this. I wrote some I wrote this.
Someone knew me in another life and wrote: the songs were just a camera and we just did it really fast like it was a quick thing. It didn't actually yet was kind of adjacent to the album, but god I love that song forever. I haven't thought about that song in a long time, swim party such a good one, they did. Did you talk to Paul Westerberg? Never, guests are mean some people. I can em two eyes to match. What am I gonna do when I meet Paul Simon? What do I call Simon? What do I say to him we say a man's life. I know now. Is there no you just sort of like I really. I really love. Why should you noted wait? What you can do is you cover or fucking song. I did we did that we did jack in a me and julio outside lens. The other day gardens, dates and dick drowned and sang www. Why wouldn't? Why? Wouldn't you just throw a cover what was run their funding. I guess it cover, and every day why not? I shed
the only thing that happens is like you. You do this thing that you have the artist and and Paul Simon gets. He can put another lack of money on a stack of money yeah that movie feels like it is going to make very much money for meeting room at what he's done. I do wonder about that. Oh goodness, I yeah. I do I mean who, who who have you met? That's been let your big number one idol Couple randy newman was pretty big for me and yeah keith richards I interviewed And- and I just stumbled. Oliver myself, you know their those guys who then there are the people whose work I really liked, but but keep richards was sort of a big deal and- and I didn't handle it that well it's better. If I have a little distance is better. If, if I, if I know somebody's work, but I don't love it
right, right, right, yoke is lying about it. Will they have a good conversation about or about guy? What about the time? You're goes all that will be made me and fill this adding it. well maybe you'll be on the same show and it can be sort of a respectful kind of thing. Just I just don't like. I will need and again but we're going to end again. Oh shit! Sorry, no! No! It's the second ending! Okay! There's two endings thanks for talking! Thank you so much okay, so those enjoyable since you guys are enjoying from dirty I pulled out the pulled out the dirty yet when the dirty gibsons I'm going to plug in the dirty old man in this? Let a ripple, but you know just just raw guts. No noodling
Transcript generated on 2022-08-01.