All right? Let's do this, how are you what the fuckers, what the fuck buddies, what the fuck? Next, what the fuck stirs? This is, MARC Maron, this is wtf. This is my podcast welcome to it I just I sometimes want to do that how what the fuckers, what the fuck I may have been doing that a long time and there are more throw mike while that, just I just annoyed myself, but but I keep doing it, It's a signature thing I mean if I started taken away all the little should I do on a regular basis? What am I left with? take away all the ticks and habits and recurring bits of business that and doing most of my life, or at least my life public life on this show. What We got you know what I mean, we don't want you guys to things,

All of us from what's inside me, you gotta, have your takes in habits and idiosyncrasies and repetitions. Just so, you don't fall apart, so today on the show music producer and musician don was done? Was you would know you would see don? Was you know what don was is you know who he is was not was? Was his man as a prolific producer and now is he he's depressed? blue no records and doing some cool things over there. But this a good conversation because he's work with exclusively a lot of not exclusively of that wide, even user we're, but but is the last one, blue and lonesome, and he's worked with the stones before and I must own person. So I, given you stones, people ahead up that there's some good chat. Thou producing the rolling stones and also about working with the stones, but thus also some good talk about renounced. instead, the music talk,

but I I was engaged and I like it and I like seeing him in my garage because he was always always one of those guys a bass player generally, and you can see him in backing bands here and there over the years he's got these dreads will beard and usually wear sunglasses and a hat and the like that guy and I talked to that guy and he's done. A lot and it was kind of a great talk, so that's happening that's happening today, momentarily alright. I do want to tell you about my experience at the sag awards. If you didn't, Why I mean what you can we watched so much, but first out of it here, some call me out here in the emu so line. Radio shack question mark wasting our question. Our question mark I mark. Going to radio shack to acquire the parts to fix your cable will require a time machine. I could tell you how to build said time machine, but it will require a parts list from radio shack. Good luck, love the show, I hope the transition to your new home smoothly from here on sincerely bowser I did say I was going to radio shack on the last show and not one

I say I was gonna go I went to wear the radio shack was knowing in my brain that all the radio shack, sir god, but seemingly some part of me- unwilling to accept that all radio shacks are Sorgen. You didn't go to radio shack much in a lot of times what you bought. There was relatively disposable because you buy too many of them cause you trying to fix something yourself or whatever. bite, but it was a sort of a constant by tat. The radio shack is gone and if you want to get that stuff day of You know it's hard. You can get a day after on amazon. I guess I guess everything happens quicker, but what happened to the journey? What happened the journey folks, that's we're missing now. is that you know I got to get a thing. I got to see what store has it? Where is that place? Are they in which drive over there, maybe we'll get something to eat on the way. Oh shit, it's not here, but look there's this store. I wonder, what's in this place, member that member getting out in the world and doing things member where you know

a sort of a shopping rabbit hole could actually require a car. You just go no. I got we passed a place. It works like him. I have that. Let's go there, always shit. I need to know this was here. Do you know this whole thing is what happened that gun? human engagement with the outside world gone sad, and I'm not grieving for radio shack and then there is brief time where they tried to call it. The hut, oh no radio, no the shack. Where Ongoing the shack pick up a plug. They tried to hipster eyes, radio shack to say Let's go down the shack, get some batteries staying out of the shack and he gets a blank cassette tapes at the shack, see again, I used to go there. I used to go down there, get blank cassette tapes that merged brand. The

prisoner, high tech minute, radio, shack brand boy back in the day. I used to go out dry. I did some. I did do some driving to do today for long metcalf, there's a there's, a deeper there's. It is for you was that what's that story about maybe I'll tell you Oh, what was I saying? Oh that sag awards very exciting they were very fun, has some of you know I lost. I was not at to win. I e g, I was up against a. We may see who one come on and there are other will do, but I wasn't expecting to win. I was just I was actually excited to be nominated into be at this thing, so many people have been on this show, but it's all actors- and it's almost like a community event- that these awards were decided. by the community of actors. They were voted on by actors and it's an actor's event. There. It there's a lot of celebrities there sure, but it's it's made doesn't feel like

like a business event or producers of entering agents event or critics event it. Just a full of actors and people were relate. air and connected to these actors, and it was exciting khazar, I couldn't celebrities, everyone knows airport. I did. I gotta be honest with you. It's not a lot to do own horn. I was happy to be there with a purpose I felt part of than was nominated for ensemble, and work and I was nominated for best male or in a comedy and allison, was nominated for best female actor and a comedy. So exciting we're off the table and right behind me. Susan Sarandon was sitting next to Geena Davis. I saw cap was over nega, their ladybird table and so is greta gerwig and tracy letts, who I interview- will be on the show soon, who I love, Tracy, letts, funny story about tracy letts, I don't know I'll tell it now or when his episode is on but everyone was there everyone was there and

I said hi to Susan Sarandon, she's been on the show. We had a little chat said I'd get a girl like I felt okay, saying hi to these people. I didn't feel ok for The critics choice, because I thought well, who am I do you know what I mean, even though I was nominated? I don't know it's. It's not humility, it's just, but For some reason in this room, very excited to say hi to everybody. Didn't I met some people I saw some old friends are met walsh over there. Ve one for a best ensemble beat us by as happiest I hadn't seen him in a while Sam rockwell he's been on the show. He knew he's winning everything it's great. He was. Table over with the three billboards table? he gave me a big hug. I gave him a big hug congratulated him the first joker. The second joke that Chris belle made was about glow and about my podcast, and it got a big laugh again, not tooting, my own horn, I'm just I feel like

I feel like I was there because I belong to not because I was a guy. I just interviewed people, it was a. It was exciting. It was fun I like to I like seeing everybody- and I like that day, that they knew me and I, like not only they know me cause I had been in my garage, but they knew because you know I was nominated for thing. I don't know. I don't think that I add whatever my I wore my suit, I went. Would sarah the painter and I felt part of part of man, part of a community, one part of the community comics which I've he's always been. Last night I was behind the comedy store hanging out with bill burst smoking a cigar with some old pals from the boston day Jackie flynn and al- do Sharm just hanging Talent stories holding it'll court with bird and this again bars in the boston guys the comedy the rogues and gypsies of the comedy world. They're, really my family, but it was nice to be in the acting world. Were here's what here's? What happens.

outside of having a joke made about me, which I found very flattering: and chatting with the different people, jason bateman. I ran into him. He was very nice. He and I ran into Jordan. Peele congratulated him, but I will tell you this story. so we're all hanging out my table. The glow table, there's two tables a table and have a glow and people have to kind of move through the room. There's thin little men between There's there's! There's they're, not a water, a lot of room and then, like all the sudden, I'm standing up, and I see Frances Mcdormand and a few people moving towards me, they need to get by me making I'm at the head of the table. They need to walk behind me and I'm standing up it's on a breaker its before the show starts, and coming right at me and I'm a big fan and I respect her a great deal and I I've always wanted to have her on the show. I was just going to step out her way and then I thought, like did just introduce yourself man, so she's

I can ride towards me to get around me with all these people, and I said hi francis I'm and she goes. I know who you are mark marron. I know who you are and am I go the oh okay. She goes. You were great on glow. You were great. I thought it. Adam. Why don't? We usually watch things, but I started watching it and I watch it and you were great. I mean everyone knows that guy everyone's known one of those guys so on some level glow, she thought I was grading it as an actor, so I I won at the sag awards. I won frances Mcdormand. Made me a winner. I'd love to ever on. The show willem Dafoe. Actually I have you know chatted with me this time. Like that, remember I said the at the critics choice I felt like. Maybe he didn't I didn't think you register, but there we are nice chat on the red carpet. When you get pictures taken I'm still a little bit of a who's, this guy, but that's all right there you are. I am completely I'm I'm I'm way ahead. It all

the I didn't anticipate any of this and and I it was a it- was a good time. There's a really good time. I'll tell you. Oh one point sir Robert DE there right, after the sag awards. You go basically next door to a bigger to another room where they have. party and you can move in through this one door and then because it separate areas there's like both in this food and whatever side. again with Sarah, in, like robert energy sitting on a couch there talking to another guy, and am I oh, my god is Robert Deniro and Sarah, so he should go. Introduce yourself like what am I I'm not going to what I'm going to get any interrupt to narrow did do what? What am I really liked? What am I getting? I can now I'm not going to introduce myself to Robert De Niro are tell me whatever I didn't feel right and then walk of another ten feet of my car. I e ok, maybe maybe I should go, introduce myself,

to Robert De Niro. I dunno. I'm going to say, but figure I'll, maybe I'll go try. So I'm walking back toward Robert de Niro he's sitting down at a little couch at the start, it's around a pillar kind of thing and there's a people around the ombudsman, everyone's move in beijing, sorted. They are talking to another guy and on working towards Robert de Niro, and then I see a guy, maybe like five to ten. either away just standing there by himself. I do just standing there. Just you know not talking to anybody big guy, and he looks you mean I look at him and he he he. No. He acknowledges me so I walk over and he introduces himself as this guy Chris Sullivan from a this. Is us the family, my work or whatever standing there and- and then I realize I'm like to use. Are you waiting to try to say hi to Robert DE, like yeah kinda into my. Ah, I didn't realize there was a line like how you, what are you going to do so, if we're just going to wait for my window, there's a way for my and I'm like That too, I think I'm going to keep moving, because I don't really think we should

That's it AL gore thing where you go ahead and do it I'll do it another Maybe another event, you don't didn't want to be a line of people trying to act, nonchalant six feet way from where Robert de Niro's talking to a friend is his. Does the growing mass of people. some other guy another guy starts. I was like yeah we're kind of we're kind of waiting. Mcafee talking to each other just going to acting like things going on. So, needless to say, did not me Robert de near. I hope Chris did so maybe maybe he'll. Let me know so anyway, okay, ok, let's get on with it I'll remind me to tell the Tracy white story how how you can to remind me you're the listener tell her when he's on cause. It was kind of funny, but it ties into something at the end of his conversation with me, anyways lorry met so after a hoodie hear her step in with her. So I had to go out into the world. because she needed it. She went to new york to do a play and they were going to do a photo shoot and she needed it to do

they wanted her to wear a thing and sir favorite hoodie. So I went down the post. this and overnighted offer laurie metcalf, Mccaffrey hoodie I got out in the world, you people think that they and I'm the Well, celebrity, I don't have people running around doing things like that, and I like to do it I'm just supportive of getting out in the world to do mundane errands. By things, steve whatever who you? Probably god, like you, stamps wines use the stamps when she's a stamp for the overnight. Don't call me out on the stairs: I come I need to. I need to do it to be there tomorrow. so more. We could ever hoodie anyway. Dawn was I enjoy this conversation. It's a music conversation, as I said you may know him from the guy with the had ned joe dread waxen, the boy. In the sunglasses he was. Was not was He was he's a big guy, music producers, bass player and now he's the president of blue note records

and they just why. This blue note review volume, one peace, loving fishing. This is a it's a box set subscription series and it's limited to a product fifteen hundred sets, you can get it at blue note, review dot com I saw volume. One just came out. I think they're going to come out twice a year. I got it's a beautiful box. It's got a reissue of a blue note record. It's got to a new record of life, performance. Is this one had a different ones? It's got some other stuff in it. Some pictures scarf. They yeah it's anyway. We'll talk about. This is me and dawn. Was so you're you're you're done was you're the guy mega

well you're the guy I've been seeing right there in the background for my whole life and who's that guy on base. What's that, guy doing the Zelig of who's, that guy there's that guy again and then people mention you, oh yeah dan, was on that one, oh, that guy you're, like always there, your presence where'd. You grow up from detroit, really what's the real name of fagin st fagans him yet too close to Donald Fagan, what kind of name is fagin sin it's it's an Ellis island name, yeah. Sure yeah like the hour, but what's the background, my grandfather came over from russia of family friendly legacy, yeah, which I don't think is true by the way legacy is that he said they said. What's your name, he said ferguson, ferguson yiddish for forgotten was a guy who's, pretty sure that I was gonna come over here and take him back to his ear to say I guess it is about to be nothing nigeria yet, but I don't think this through the actually. The name exists in russia. My I've come

my russian Jews yeah? What for am I what am I you know? I just looked it up now. I can't remember but yeah my my my father's sides russian, my grandmother's polish polish, russian, mostly we're on the go It's probably the cassettes that is the only the brand and that brand of juice that comes over the american Jews, polish, russian or the darker ones, yeah the sephardic one too, it's worthy one, but well yeah man. So Detroit there was a so we how the whole family comes from Detroit. Your grandfather moved to Detroit. My grandfather moved to Detroit on my grandparents moved. 'em mama really cause. I don't think I've met a full clan of or heard about a full clan of Detroit jews. Yeah now were they were like fuck new york and I think you've gotta, be you gotta, be my age, I'm sixty five or group and fifty cents. Yes right, but motor

city so like what was going on, how many siblings you got got a sister yeah she's the what is her gig she's, the official statistician of the united states of america? Oh really, she still got a job yeah. Yeah she's, not a government job. Is it a government job? It is a government job. I better not talk about it I want to get it We are right. We got a president that only likes numbers a certain way here in his favor, but so what what was it like in detroit in fit like cuz? I just saw the movie detroit. It was not good The movie was good, but it seemed horrible like a war zone in the sixties, well that week, yeah yeah. No, but you know I mean it it. It wasn't a great place to be a person of color, but right now what is yeah right?

you know that you share with many mopping was great and benny talked a lot about grown up into treaties he's but twelve years over the media so take our use of Letty and put in empty five and the stooges right. You got Oh yeah, the underside of my high school and the other side of town? It was your high school famous icicle delayed. Did they do it a lot? Because I know this one year where there's big it's not that one out oak school yeah, but they played a sock, come on If you is that you making it up, links and we there s kind of their years visit. Sixty eight may be sixty nine somewhere, so they were just making them like. Where did they have a similar local band secret played in my high school so but, like parliament, funkadelic played my junior high school started where they were called the parliament.

And they got that must be made more. They broke it open like energy, they lip sink. I just want to testify that came with a dj from a local amputation and and they moved like the temptations, but david dressed like hippies, and they blew everybody's. My Do they dare really something somebody that was, but they didn't do any long sort of spaced out kenneth, synthesize, the lips and straight ninety five. I heard that that was not an uncommon thing: the whip sinking. I talked to a hunt, sales him and tony were a kid and they do, they live sinking gigs. Yet there were no p a's couldn't sense of it. you'd, go with the dj yeah. It was a kind of early form of payola. A dj would get a gig at a sock, hop right at one hundred and fifty bucks for showing up and emceeing and all the kids loved the dj, the kids loved the right, but the bands played free air and he played the no spam, no PA needed really opening yeah. I believe stooges that must have been

at that time there bad man they were right, I mean like what would they do? What were they doing covers are they're doing you know they were doing it on the first album or did people look dislike? What what the fuck, what the fuck is happen or were they already has, in my view, is the detroit thing man? No, yet there was a whole. You know, stooges in the five were like it Is it really a pivotal experience? For me? Was one night we went down to Joe Landis print shop where he he printed up the year, the fifth estate, which was the local underground paper guy I went to high school with. The empty five where there are members of the empty fire away, was the german with members of fairer Saunders band while yeah. Now I know I, I didn't even have half my wits about me that night, but I do know that I never heard anything like that before he or really after work required those individuals

under those circumstances. Right then, one time thing: it was a one time thing, but it was as if it was a first and that really stayed with me. You know mia make something that no one's ever heard before that his years of really good thing to do yeah, if you can do it, right. If you can, you can do and what they say. It is very easy, but by many selling it is part of that equation of it doesn't matter. Well, I don't I believe that if you do original soulful stuff yet comes from an honest place, yeah, that's your best business for sure people dig at someone, but like the more I talk about it. Just thinking about it right now with you, it seems that did that that Detroit was what is important american music on some levels is new orleans in a way yeah. I don't. I know my friends from new

we'll take umbrage. What is there, but I'm a hundred percent with a deeper his wrought, deeper history, new orleans right, but bit by bit roy per history, but detroit to not immune to rock n roll after world war, two people came from not just all over the country, but all over the world to work and not of those cars and they brought the cultured yet, and that was the beauty, a grown up. when actually made currency engineer I write is that you heard every kind of music and when people would come gather and combine the music here. You'd gets incredible stuff sure I was really fortunate to grow up. In in that time it was a huge industry, huge yeah me of making the cars for the world for the world motor Sid. Yeah, and then I guess I guess some of that I mean I don't know. If that's more of a metaphor, poetic idea that some of that I kind of like that, groove of a young man, working machinery liking assembly lines. I I don't

that really made it's way into the music. Necessarily here's. Here's what I think made it's way into the music is that everybody who's was from Detroit in a period of time, came from a situation with a fate was in extricable tide the auto business, so freedom have ambling. My parents are both teachers here, but if otto sales were down, they lay off workers. Workers move away to another city at a fine new work here, and so they be fewer kids in school, so they lay off teaches did laugh barbers waitresses, sir. Everybody was in the same boat and there was really no point putting on any airs the because everyone knew the story right. So no!

was rented mercedes never saw a rolls royce till I got here. I think there's maybe one limo in detroit when I was and is probably like parked at the airport or that- and you never saw that step because there was really no point in pretending. You are something else that's the beauty of. So you get a really honest population. the music and the art and the culture of detroit reflects it. It's it's basic and is raw, and it's for real. The only hooker to me is the epitome of detroit, music. When did you start playing in the in the in the late fifties when, as you know, in like six or seven aha always base now as a piano and guitar yeah, and then you know like a lot of guys, my age was born in a

fifty two were twelve. When the beatles were on at sarin yeah. I hear about this at that moment. That's it. You know and a twelve huge. You know you looked at it that I could use edge with checks. That's what everybody says a guy! I got a little. A little help me out would go a long way and at twelve you just done enough to think that you can actually pull it off. If you are a little older, maybe you'd have said well I'd like to do that, but maybe I should get that law degree to fall back and fewer ate. It didn't register for a lot of musicians. My age, an inordinate number people born my year, and I really immune to that. So we start a form and rockets will then see the beatles on solvent you're like that, that's our window. Absolutely we just gotta wear this im close and play. Ok, he goes yeah. Well, let's see no, it's a little more complicated, but

it kind of works yeah? So what was the first band? First band was called the saturn's and we went to a local tv talent show originals covers what we we'd had. Some originals are very good. I think we covered. We did, let's twist again a hot shepherd and not the twist twisted to devise twist again like we did last unless some sir, and the word he choice then he put We just want to make sure they keep em choice. Through only part of that anyone, it won't do not accord we No, we want a portable tv set four guys one tv set in NASA. We sold it to the drummer's, dad had a drugstore for sixty bucks, yeah what'd. You do with that split it up properly. Parents grandly by records here,

and then what did when was? When did you start like? Did you do you? Do any records with bands before your bands, When was that was way back now. It was hard you had to you had to earn your way into studio. You know really well, you didn't to have a raj band right laptop sure, so you had to have some money yeah and you had a backer. Have a hit I have a song, so I wanted to move. We you had to earn. It learn the slot, and so I was just. I was just playing a lot and ultimately I took a class in engineering where they taught everything but it got me in studio a real allegory as badly my early twenties at that point after high school did you go to college and went to university of michigan for you, but here, but in Ann arbor in ann arbor. Here that's good town is to me

but this is like so you're like kramer and those guys are a little older than you right by what two years. That's it, but that's a that's a big difference in that you know when you're the difference between being fourteen and sixteen in the same sixty I guess yeah, but I mean you were of that age, so you know you saw the culture kind of breaking apart, you're old enough to your born in fifty four five thousand two hundred and fifty two, so I was born in sixty three so bye the five I mean you're wide awake. You just saw the whole thing: the wheels come off. Oh yeah, here now it was an exciting time. You know not too dissimilar to this time in many ways, but the damn, the the the the of culture has not quite infested the way it did then, but why that no one goes outside anymore man. It takes a while to get people out and also everybody can live in their own fucking world on their computer. They can just cherry pick. The community therein, if they're in any at all going outside, is to is to forget

The thing not like how far away there going be parking at the protest are we going to recheck yeah randy's jam for now. You heard what I get an end, but a, but did you go where you part of that? Did you go those empty five chosen, yemen to empty fascist, went to war ryan, Cause like sinclair was sorta out there and he was doing player he's. He was my hero and he's still we're still good friends yeah, I love John. Oh yeah he's the guy. He was the leader of the city. He was of the counterculture yeah yeah, and like it. So you were hanging out with that at his place as on the young side. I couldn't move in right to the camera and the fact that it probably saved you the fact that you couldn't move in probably saved you a life of drug addiction and horror yeah,

Maybe he dabbled any of the act, but again I'm queer item out of it. Alright yeah you did alright yeah, you don't look too beat up. So sorry, the engineering class and am aware athens. How do you get come away into a job at a studio and just started? Recording detroit yeah? What studio? Who he, who has a guy named jack ten had a little place called mast, mind studios ten dollars an hour on top of a an abandoned, ah like the which the westinghouse building yeah, and we had these cardboard boxes and on the walls, and it was it was fun but it was making records yeah yeah and who were you making records of? Ah man, just anybody who come through the awesome, jazz yeah. The first session I did was for a jazz saxophone player named SAM sanders, someone just put it out by the way are railing in the uk. Someone licensed it in a year this, the first session I ever did and

just what you just and engineers just engineering here, so I put it out because you are because it everyone's put not theirs it may be a tremendous global race on who can find the weirdest most esoteric records to put on one hundred and eighty gram. Vinyl re release as an it's exactly puts assist oh yeah, I found one I found one she had atkins under his car didn't even mean to be playing for me. Like those our taste the out their sheer, like I like that, just or on what I'm doing shit right sort of like where we go, and I think the eleventh of people go like what the fuck is this if they are sitting there with expectations. But if you just let it role Well, you can kind of like edit. Ok, we are. The stuffed will jump out here at a really important thing happen to me when I was about fourteen his run driving around with my mom running errands, and she left me in the car, with keys, so yeah play with the radio and has on a sunday and the local jazz station broadcast on a m on

and attuned into the station, just as a a song that I later discovered was part of the blue note catalog mode for Joe but Joe Henderson came on, and if you play that song checkout, I came in just as the saxophone soloist area, and he wasn't it wasn't about notes. It wasn't about techniques here he was like howling with anguish, yeah yeah through the horn, and he was speaking to me to, actually, as fourteen mad at it. I was stunned to hear this and it was just listening to so angry that it was anguished yeah. He was in pain, yeah and then the drummer Joe chambers kicks in about twenty seconds here and the thing starts to swing like crazy and any falls into the group and the message that came through to me as a fourteen year old was down. You got two groove in the face of it,

firstenergy and immediately it? It really struck me like what kind of music is this? I I went out and I bought an fm portable fm radio, just the within the gas station, just to listen to the b c h d here and yeah soon found that a lot of the music that was speaking to me was coming out of what was then a very obscure little label called blue, no records backed and back then him and my buddies, and I we we we'd ride buses across town just to is to hold the albums he couldn't afford them. There were four bucks and you could you could read the liner notes and see that he checked the names, because it was like a record to a company of musician, so that was your first year jazz guy at heart, yeah, because you know that's why I don't really differentiate. I mean Bob Dylan was super important to me and still ride super important to me right, but but yeah not the jazz really spoke to me from the time. I was a young teenager,

It's interesting because that form you know you you you're kind of a If your music, I really production wise right as a producer, the area you have because, like they're there there's and level of of chops, and I I don't know you know how much jazz you play much anymore, but I I came up in I did. I played bars, played bebop in detroit Now you I was a majority to relay embarrass. You violate stand a base. He had a family, really see you so. You go to engineering school, but you still playing I lived in. Did you pick up? The bass picked up the based on us. in high school, because they were a couple keyboard, actually we were better than me in a couple of guitar players who are better than me. There were no bass players, so it's just a practical decision and yamuna. Although Paul mccartney was

Pretty cool baseball was, and I can relate to what he was playing yeah. You know, RON Carter was a mystery, Paul mccartney of slack. This is genius and I can play I kind of do that if you can figure this out, I dunno where that other guy's going, and that takes some more all right, so that so that was you in your plane behind who the the ne, the the main person I worked with? It was like a hard bop piano play a woman by the name of Lenore paxton played with her for ten years, and we just did bars in detroit and mostly the club called bob and rob's lounge. I out in class in michigan, and I probably learned more about music from her than anybody for the rest of the record. Really real yours you're with her. Maybe maybe longer what are in a drummer and horns

no, no one to as a trio and the owner bob and rob's. I was a singer, a ha who had this kind of dick hames. He was good as it is really too good to be like one and just a detroit detroit hot and and he got up and simonis it was great. Man is a great period of time and do for such a night, I wouldn't know any of the songs that have to let she'd start and she'd help me a little with the left hand out with cords, were here and then one time through better remit. as she was taken off and it was used crate and it was great for, my ears and my mama chops and and for exploring things and also the whole scene and plain viruses. much fun jack, you just walk round and- and you just talk to the while, people and hang out with a and who is really cool

doing that you're playing with her. You point with other thing, anyone else all kinds of stuff. I played bitter grief but look awful musician in TED Lucas once we adopt, the strangest booking we ever had was we had a multiracial, full band that somehow got book to open for black sabbath it that the two leaders, sports arena or ear early seventies- and we didn't make it through the fur some. If pelted with bottles and the drummer was bleeding. Mr, oh, my god, but I met Ozzy there, and that was after, like the second sabbath record, something like that. Neither the first or second will be on a us tour, but it's pretty early on, but they were big enough to sell out to the toledo sports arena there, and after that you pray, yeah, thereby couple records india. It could have. It could just as easily point seventy four thousand. It was what was it like watching them at that point? He's great yeah, that's a great band yeah! This is great

and as a young upswing- and I was I was record- he did he sings tat story mandate We had a song that none of our singers could sing, and so Michael Zilker, who ran the record, said there's this one If a girl from Detroit, you should use if she's going to be a very big star yeah and it was madonna right before she put out her first record. So we recorded, we spent a couple of days doing it and she was great, I loved her. She was really sweet and she worked real hard, but it didn't sound like was not was right, innocent Michael then we can't put us out. He said you're, making a huge mistake, she's going to be very big, nah man she's. A discussion with his is the first record you talkin. This is is born to laugh at torn ok. Yeah yunkers shake your head of gas on second em and So we took her off and then was like

We going to do now, SAM, my attorney also represented ozzie, aha and he call ozzie ozzie, now years later we had ozzie and madonna on parallel tracks, and so we redid it as a duet but ozzie and madonna, and to her credit, madonna, nixed it and Kim Basinger. And saying it and it's actually it was a sign of the united states is our biggest single, which one is called shake your head. Do it Kim Basinger and Ozzy osbourne asked was so sweet man. She london, and she did a video Kim Basinger is not known for that kind of thing where she could sing mash yeah she's, a wonderful person man. I don't think people have a clue as to her by different worries and actress. I don't, if you're singer a good yeah. Alright, but that record it seems like yet the admit writer on there to a growing or was on their way on a dim marcia quenches on the figure from the neck they detroit. Then I am well done.

but I was in a ban with him and now when I was twelve really and his good friend there I was in high school when that shit hit my sharona, so so all right so you're You're playing all these different games with this beautifully put together was not was it was sort of way? What was division of the band division of the band was too because it's sort of a funk band, quite a eclectic band. It was very eclectic all, although, if you're from I tried it makes perfect sense. It's just everything we grew up with and for our first album had wayne kramer playing guitar and marcus belgrave, the great jazz trumpeter, who played with Charles Mingus and barrels. He was playing trumpet and we had guys from p funk. Plant larry potential load of percussionist right so it was just an amalgamation of our roots, of the ditch

it sound yeah with David's lyrics on top, which were you know, heavily influenced that wasn't so Detroit that was more zappa and beat poetry and and him he said, David was as a as an original man. Does no one like him. Is he still well guys around here lives in oh yeah and and we're years. Abigail loves, APA, yeah yeah, but the first amendment, airport they may were on a local. A tv show called swing in time. A hat right. Sixty swift, promoting the upcoming freak out in the first release. Yeah they went, they blew our minds. We saw that and then I saw him at the airport the next day and he gave me an autograph picture, and so I, do you work in and they need you put out there in eighty one was not was record, the first one zero, adoption in records gets a little odd. Doesn't it means in period of time in the eighties were the style of production. The guy gives a lot more. Was at hand in hand with a star amendment, but it was before the computer

right, but only where we did those things like we didn't have. The drum mission did right. machines right and they they had like the lolita weights were around that kind of. But what we did was we we'd have a drummer come in first year and play the beat that I had my head right and then we take the two best bars and you'd cut a tape loop, which is you'd, take the two inch tape, uh huh, and had Should the start of one bar and and cut it for two barzee, the out on the base derive next and then you tape, together a new circle. Then he set up. These mic stands all over the control, room and you'd keep running it through the cap stand and it would play over and over a hut, they didn't have samplers and, and it was it was beautiful man, and so it had the feel. live daddy and it had the sound I analog tape and super steady yeah, and then we would build the tracks. On top of that, that's how you got your groove the base. then the drums Z, and then we build up from the drums right, and so you did.

I bet you'd put another wife drum track on top of that at the end, you'd have to have cream come in and play it's. The pull the loop out then input to get the the live game after everything setup that sort of backward way doing it terrible with much of it, but I didn't know how to do it any other way. That's all! That's just how I did it mainly because we didn't have the bread to to pay for a room full of musicians. So in time. Eventually it merely the first live ban that I produced was to be fifty tooth yeah, then that record love shack produced and how many? Oh and eighty nine and then I had to change my way of making records. I remember asking them both you know, when it's the take, we didn't have multiple takes refuge. Building from a loop is only one taken you and this week it's like you just adding things you're not actually playing together. You just plan together you're building on one, and then you did all those records. You did all your records. While there was no muslims or something like that, how did you get yeah? what hits right

yeah later in the we had, some big hits here at the end of the eighties. Yet what was the big hit? Big hit? His song called walk the the I saw one called fry in the house of love rain. We had a few other ones and over in europe, were bigger and you're right. So that was so so that it was exciting. It's really exciting fun. Many great word It will do it for years and indeed, just put other than you put out. Didn't you guys get together again in two thousand. Eight now been like almost your head's at wildest yeah yeah, and we did one more. How much I actually think was our best record meeting and we toured then, and I'm not. I still get together with the guys and we played we do show in Detroit every year. not enough everybody, but was it was at the dream ultimately, or did you always was production? Always something you're like was that your lot was at your ears, sort of like you fall back in your

and know you had these other skills or were they all sort of coming together, as at the same time I wasn't separating them out or something happened around the time of sergeant pepper. I think we're we're production techniques became a musical color yeah and and saw that to me was another instrument stillness. You know what you do in the studio. Is you don't approach it that differently from were you play your instrument so, but yet, but you ve sort of evolved as producer overtime. Like I mean, if you tell me that from eighty one to eighty nine, you're, not really letting then play live together in others. We will please. You have all of your offered In that time you work with car we, Simon at all. I don't know these ward brothers records is pretty

group carly. I actually might have been a no. I think we cut it, took a click and finally to nobody, wait. No bonnie raitt was just after the b. Fifty two, so one ontario, I guess what you can have way together with Bonnie, was going to have it any other way. She can't she cannot and will not play the drum machine, and I learned a whole lot making nick of time and just being around Bonnie cause. She says soulful and honest and genuine, oh music, as a musician as a singer and as a human being. is anybody? I ever met yeah she's great she's, a real, a blues legend, oh man. I love it so much in us. She I get so moved when I hear her sing. Sometimes I can't play

Records because I get too emotional and I loved her long before a newer. I I remember seeing her at the Ann arbor blues, jazz festival in in his night and sixty nine is something I bought her first album when it was new and as just a always a big fan, so he was thrilled to be able to make those four records with her, and it's still a thrill to play the duty, the one that has angel from montgomery on it. Now I wish heard cover this fuckin saying- kill the aids heartbreaker higher in you got to work with it. Two and I like that record by bro, brick by brick, yeah. Thank you. I've done a couple with them. What was the other called avenue, b c huh a weird one, It's a it's! A beautiful album! It's an underrated, album! It's a song. I won't crap out on break by maria. Thank you. I did that one too, a that was a fun record to make me so I'll. Add you guys find each other I mean? Why why you? Why? Why do people like what they when they were like? I want that done was saying. I don't want it.

Come on. Really I dunno, I guess cause. I had other records on the charts. Probably knows nineteen. Eighty nine, who was in fact well, you know in in fairness, near to him. I left the session from I said. I got leave early, however, we're Brick and I left a session. So I gotta go to the gram and nominated for something I even talk about it, and that was the year we won best album of the year. For nick of time I saw I saw it It's like he was jumping on the bandwagon because there wasn't really a bandwagon hot. So right I would say that was the home of the year, the bonnie raitt record, yeah yeah, that's nineteen. Eighty nine! in the studio with- and I just left Look around

I know you're out here without her it wasn't. Then we just went back to work the next day and, what's he, you know as a vocalist you're exclusively a vocalist? What is he working for what's a relationship with him and a producer with you specifically what in that record. What were you going to do for iggy pop knowing iggy pop's, having seen him in high school? She tell him. Oh yeah, Did you know something he as wild as he is on stage, is also a very deep. Am I've, had him and he's very, very thoughtful, intelligent, dude, brilliant he's three surprising he's like Keith, where you're like. Oh, I get. It dates a character. You do. Where's the altar. He is the other party, it's a party yeah yeah yeah, and that's for real on conan. It's like Alice cooper, something where he'll tell you. Right right, stick! Yeah! No! No! No! It's definitely that! Well, that's what you know. Rollins said that to me said you know yea, you know you you you, when you're talking the gym, it's different than the

yeah right, but you see where it comes from. I think he just good tracks. He just iggy azalea to make quality record, did you want to make a like, as I guess, there's like- there's a single on their right, Emmi and damaging losing oak and hand here I m in? Was he thinking in terms of that it? We because it doesn't seem like Certain artists are ever really thinking in terms that what I meant producers are always kind of thinking. In terms of that. You are here today is a matter of always been a little removed from popular the top ten

I reckon I've. Never I don't really have a whole lot of hit singles. I have worked on so my orientation is of producers just to try to get an artist with a great vision and help them realize it whatever that vision may be, and if I feel I can be of assistance, MIA I'll have to do the racket and sometimes I think, I don't know how to do what you're talking about, and you should probably call this person by the record the day it comes out who have you sent away, but I have help you man. It does. Might there have been some people that you work with that where you're a on other side of the arc of their career a little bit.

In a way. You know someone John Mayer once said to me: how come you always do the album after the big one yeah and vietnam Johnson is a real good friend yeah. I love them, and I know he did. He was just being a bit of Our humanitarian one devalue answer. I dunno busting your browser. We had a didn't bust him in the chap I ask in, but I thought about it and I thought well get you It is usually if, if you have some big hit single it, it may not be an accurate reflection of who you are oh yeah and maybe people. Why get back on track, where I think that I think that's the kind of record because you did the id and you sorta did that with Elton John right, yeah yeah, a piano, we'd implant, electric piano. We got him on a grand piano without a time. Was something he was shying away from a really good and you do like love it here in the dylan record, what was ally well you know bob's my hero. I believe we were

woefully unprepared produce their back under the red sky under the risk. I dunno. If I know the record specific, I dunno, if it's not hailed as one of his masterpieces yeah but there's a few of those. It's not your fault. Well I'll. Take his. I can tell you what I did wrong and that he asked that I went in thinking. Alright, let's make blonde on blonde part, tourists and yet rack em. That's the furthest thing from bob dunes. Mind is repeating himself right was the furthest thing from most great artists, brett that he was trying to do something else. There's the assistant engineer ran a a cassette of the talking on the between songs on the first session. I did with him and he said man you know you may want to. You may want to have this as a souvenir, and I plopped it in when I was driving home from a session and a landed right on the spot.

Bob was. He was telling me something he wanted to do, and I was telling him why it wouldn't work before we tried it. He waited all my life to work with the sky man, my hero here and I didn't even chase up his idea and I pulled over. I want to throw up but it was a good lesson and here What you can hear and under the red sky is the beginnings of what he later went on to do, which was to skynet routes, the american right succumbing business or invest and the weird the the the the sort of ghost troubadour, time. Traveller have America you that that's actually really good description, and I think he would like that disease, but was trot. He was headed that way and I was probably not helping him get there and I learned a lot from you guys have friends are not yes defensive?

but, like friends, friends are liking. When, when see him, he said we just did something fairly recently that I can't talk about how you act as doing he's great man- and you know I still love his music so much I watch all the shows. I follow his tours on nanotube, there's, always some some header with a phone or a tape in it and I think, he's a great singer as he you have to really listen. You gotta! get about the original versions of the songs pad. If you really listen to what he's doing he's inhabiting every word of those songs and approaching them with a beginner's, mind a fresh mind every night and they ring he's. He's he's a deep. I'm here, he's really a great singer. Now I agree with you. I I think that, like there there are periods where you know he was doing something up there. That was either out of spite, or or or exhaustion, but I always think it's funny.

For years. People the be song as this is dunno. What saying he do a whole tour like that are you with how that would weigh with goin? What's going on, release a record of like crooning like you them completely clear, perfect, audible, local and to me that sort of white near one feel and fuck you in a way. I I loved after records yeah yeah. I think he's really found it it. First of all, it's really hard to tackle those songs and follow you can't follow Frank's footsteps into your doomed yeah, so he's found a really a totally original ant way to to to inhabit of songs and and be himself ray. Is it's brilliant I think you like it sort of it's a very interesting, because I have to assume that you know he he doesn't. We need to tour. Other than for his own. You know emotional and creative that he tours, because that's what he does right you play,

musicians right, and I think that you know his commitment to it at this point in his life and the way he was approaching which is sort of like a performance piece and every you're good at this? This particular manifestation of dylan is sort of it. It's very interesting and it's it's very sort of timeless I think, he's great. I mean I saw that he did it that that desert storm concert air. I loved that show, and I love this tour that is on right now. I I keys delivering a hundred percent every night. I think so yeah. I agree with you, but, like you know obvious, we can't go through everybody, but you know you got to work with Seeger on record that I don't know the fire in silence if you're just playing bass or you know not producing a play based near. Do you play bass on a lot of these? If asked, I never offer, did something You did some what you did another with the b 52's Glenn frey, to try to rest his soul,

roy or reason there must be some beautiful sweeter. And then, when he opened his mouth just like wow, I l yet waylon jennings did a country trip in what was you did a you did that to Brian Wilson dock address It is a documentary, but I think I saw that doc is good. I just wasn't made for these times. Yet it's heartbreaking he's heartbreaking to me. Well, they're, just not not because it's It's sad, it's just there's a couple of people, and I've said this before on the show where I have a hard time listening to it, because I can feel that on ability in the pain of it. Well, that's what makes him good artist, no doubt quite soon, like some people here, the beauty of it. For me, it's sort of like when I hear it on my isis hat. It says like it's hard for me to hear. I understand that you, don't you don't think at his best. What he did was make kind of.

Sad wistful songs with this great harmony and other and more n a beat thing at random, neath sure, and you don't necessarily, as I think we can act. Williams wrote the darkest satis most depressing song. but he was going out playing road houses and he knew that people had to stay in drank right around. So he put me in a cold cold heart. Let's look at this eaten it's up at major key and so and yet you listen to those lyrics that was hanks thing. We tried to copy that a little bit and was not was you know that I tried to do music? That would be the opposite of lyrics haha. It was based on a theory that, if you had, if you had a beautiful diamond- and you want to show it to somebody air put it down on ice, you won't see it put it down on black velvet. Yeah people can see the dimer I saw it was a

Device doesn't always work some rags if you go too far and it's just an alienation device sure, but it's all blues device to right, I mean that's at the heart of it is, I think it has to do with playing bars. You know right, you, you've got to keep people drinking don't get paid at the end and they don't ask you back. It's like hard bop, like the transition from you know, into interested in hardback. You know what I mean like you know like. Maybe can't go all the way out there when we tighten it up a little bit and give people something they can into wellness. Very you know, that's that's something everyone wants. I took the gig at blue note a I really had to figure out. Ah, I was hired to move continued, the the aesthetic of the previous seventy three years yeah. So what is that is that? Well, it turns out the are the guys who founded label, alfred lion, frank, wolf and a couple of their buddies wrote this little manifesto, a railroaded nineteenth, thirty nine and they dedicated themselves to the pursuit of authentic music

and to providing uncompromising freedom of expression. I that's the essence of the manifesto, but if you really follow the history, what they did they they just pushed the anvil open every air union. They started doing like stride piano. players, but by year, ten years in they wanted to get into bebop yeah. They chose monk of all the people mega the most out there cat at the time, but they made these incredible seminal records right. Loneliest monk that changed the face of music changed the way people wrote, songs, changed the way people approach, solos, change, the way, people voice chords and how you played behind a soloist. Is so so influential, but they saw that and no one else was really seeing it at the time jump ahead to what you're talkin about hard bop stuff that was, that was horace silver in the act like you act like he's, throwing in backbeat or silver's doing this funky gospel stuff here and you couldn't do that at play. Playhouse you right after bandstand for that

That was revolutionary music. He listened to it now it sounds pretty much. It has become such a part of the musical vocabulary. Right sounds normal, but I was radical at the time he jump ahead to the sixties, the herbie hancock and wayne shorter. He and his modal jazz records reflect and what they were the miles, as that was pretty radical. So what happened to Buena at wired, the all these two they're they're, japanese. We know for a while and what was that? Well, it's gone too. is of ownership, but that you know it, it costs money every time you got a reissue, I could remaster it. You gotta do some. He had costs at the front here and there have been times been owned by companies by haven't, appreciated, haven't, appreciated, devalue. in denmark investing so in those areas where their time periods, where there were shitty reassures, like inequality, wise.

it's uneven, hey know that there's a whole philosophy to remastering. I think it's something you can dramatically alter the character of when you remastered, you don't want to do that, though right. No, you man, but a lot of people think well, let's improve it If we can improve it is now with the technology. Weird man, it's a weird. When people do that, I know there's some rock acts that are sort of like. Oh it's. You know it's reissue, yet they consume. But again you can sell a thing. You know nine times nine different formats, a story we were were in nineteen. Ninety three, when I started working with stones here, the signed virgin records and they were going to reissue the catalog. So everything had to be mastered from the beginning, the that, but from what they owned, which before Monday the wichita post out about it. At first thing, that is sticky thing is in exile with first too, and so we got the original tapes and sent it to the lead by stroke of mastering were. That is, as bob ludwig attacks is a genius area just

look at his discography air your mind, but we didn't give many instructions ass, a bob went in and made it sound up to par with nineteen. Ninety three like added, knocked of a low end. He will he he was doing what he thought the record company wanted, but we listen to it and it would you couldn't recognised So what really isn't sticky fingers and we like what is that welch's to it, sounded different yeah? No, not really not bob's fault right. He is he's the gingers. You know, but weedless what's wrong here. Well, let's put up the original tapes and see what we got. So he listened to the n mastered as one sticky fingers and that doesn't sound like the wit, the album you remember, the that I removed that dave from him it does now, it's because someone mastered it and did some original that's originally, and that's how you heard it right here at wrong. They're all really different. Every song is different. Ashley exile, which was made

all over the world you work on that remembered exile. I work I work on two different versions: eggs. I didn't do that remain I didn't. I work on the remastering in ninety three and then a few. Years ago. He ended a second disk of where they finished some f in his songs, and I worked on that I I got that a couple of those songs are pretty good. This there's some cool stuff, yeah yeah, but yeah. It's definitely worth hearing now, yeah, it's great and so the so anyway. So we so then we started. We got all the cds together and you listen to all the different scenes, these and the cassettes, everything for and they're all radically different, and it turns out like some guy work in germany admit on the midnight shift, decides to add treble that's the new sound of exile on main street street going forward so with that were going to. Finally,

answer to an ad in gold mine magazine, air, a guy had virgin vinyl copies still in the shrink crap from nineteen seventy two exile and yet a version of sticky fingers ass. He brought up to my house a mall how and where we were recorded, voodoo lunch not now That is bringing the two making keys at his that's where you wish date invented iphones only get out. I lay great me, but we put that on the way comes over with the records of these producers. The guy did he just now no blues. My list is great, is one of the greatest things ever, thereby in their own record from punch out. He was cool yeah and he he could function enough to know not to charge them for it, but to ask them to sign a dozen

all right, so everyone made out like bandits on the doom. So, and so would you do it? Those rack? Will you put it on and ah there's exile, so we sent that to Ludwig said that this is what it's supposed to sound like, and he got it this and the the remasters from ninety three sound great because they adhere to the with the aesthetics of the original artistic him, so he didn't rip it from the wax. He just got this. He he could. He could hear, hear what they understood, but it was oh. Why does? But you have to have some frame of reference and even the stones then have a frame of reference injured been some Expect them to with exile were either surprised that reframe reference for that decade or so same thing, a blue note, but I

So much more simple, I mean you isn't it was not. You know it's simple but having gone to that exercise, but if you put up the unmasked tapes, it doesn't sound like the records you remember, but rudy than guelder did his own, mastering brute event elder whom engineered all aldous classical Jeff if decent sixties, and not just for blueness, aided impulse wreckage rattle of supreme, so he'd master him and there was a sounder than everybody, like to hear, but over the years to the reissues get fox, sometimes it amazing there's a company called to music matters that does our audiophile here at work and they sound incredible, but they figured it out, but you got to go back to the original version final that everybody approved and matched. The feel of that? So that's what we do so listen to the record, don't rip it from the record or derivative. The record just get a guy with good years who's the genius that she had to take. Take it from the record cause. You know like there's

things you isn't too. I gotta think it's a boon, a record on a hoot who did the giant steps record Johnston with coltrane its honour lennox, so, like I got the re, the the new one, the vine on that it was ten inch. Forty five speed hundred a year grant them and it sounds like it's in the fuckin room. It's so clean. there's no mess on it at all, and it just feels like it's just a balance thing If can I bring that up that bring that level it out and as it is I like isn't that how lot of that jazz was recorded, while the the bluenose stuff is considered to be classic, was they would they cut it. I have to try that they mixed it as they were. Recording you don't have the option of bringing the great yeah it's crazy yeah. So so now you just don't mess with it. Man, that's really! The thing is: don't don't impose yourself on the

So what is what is the vision that you have four buena? What is that thing? I got an amount that I listened to. You no review yes, but that that overall vision for blueness an ice box at the heirs anchors pictures in it. This paper, this reissue of old record than as a new record that recorded lie is summer theirs. Scarf in there. I think John varvatos blue scarf. We got magazine. The idea was We are about the liner notes for the frank apple record, right and and just my experience driving around detroit I trying to write on hold the to restore that kind of experience holding something and connect. With the iron icebox areas that I was there I didn't have. Whenever I get somethin, I then am I shall even play it. This. Actually it's a this. piece of it is an anthem, gi of new tracks right from artisans. ass. Did that aren't available anywhere else? They don't stream.

I've tried his right of a couple, a liar, but if whatever here but a new and they ve come out and and in some cases were created specifically for the box run box to know where we are in it and that's all stuff recorded specifically to amf for the back with the theme. The theme is the theme of of the outback or box. Two is or it's about tony williams, the album and tony williams, great drummer play with miles Davis in the sixties and and really totally revolutionized. The approach to drums He made some great albums for blue note between late eighties and early nineties have right up until the time he passed, waverly six albums that are kind of really underrated classic, so we're trying to shine a light on those. So the drummers on the roster are reimagining those songs so that those

new tracks calliope. What other way and what reassure you put in their lives can be a bobby hutch smack. So ok, so that's nice! It isn t a bit twice a year thing: you do twice a year and then well by subscription rana, which is trying to do coolly stuff? That's all just a sudden that one of the things I felt taken, the gig was it because in a locker stream a cop every danger. I love it. I miss that connection from the line or no man from the package. So how can we get back to that and maybe go past it, and so it really trying to woman a vinyl hall, I'm doing I you know I got no of records and I got good equipment to listen to him on and I like it and like he answers On top of the newer blue note, reissues to your area, you oversee all that stuff, great- we got an eightieth anniversary coming up in two thousand nineteen and got some and because there's a lot of audio files around now we're into the vinyl again it that it. an amazing, sound, really distinctive.

It's a kind of distortion. Really, you know it's it's not it's not pure and that's what's good about it. Miac it's got some. we know that gives it sold and feel some more than others, depending how many times has been played? Or you know someone aid off if you buy use record, sometimes you like? What would you do? crazy what you do. I give you have a question or I go find the original wax put it on, give it to the guy telling a match. You just trust the initial impulse of the artist if everyone was if they were all slapping hands at the insane yeah. This is great

Who are we to editors lies right when I ran romanian us of sharon and if it especially if it stands the test of time, why would you change, and there was one of all the reissue we ve done in the last six and a half years, one of my favorite albums or new common live at the golden circle is just a trio david eisenstein, charlie effort and We discovered that the to the left and right side are out of phase and original take a yea, but because of that, the symbols got this crazy, sound re, but also because of it. The base is a little blurry, so we put it back in phase air and crazy, sound and the symbols went away here and but you could hear the bass really well here, but what would you do? Well, it's tough question philosophically cause. If you want the right of the people know the euro to me, but but that's also one of the things were it's like. Well, you fixed it not, but you didn't

fix it in a way. That was the idea what it was like a preference thing it was like now. This was engineered wrong and this is what it sounded like work, here's one that did that on purpose, and I guarantee you he didn't. It was done by an engineer, stockholm who didn't realize mics around the face, and we we put it in phase but figured out how to get the crazy sound out of the symbols, and so it it's gut because the it's got a real quirky character, so it took two weeks and we took I, I a a lotta lotta people involve meticulous though we got the quirking us back in, but got an phase and that's the one we editorial now I gotta get get record records. You can lose. It's no, you gotta renew reissue yeah. There were a few years back, but we gotta talk about the stones before we go show do some stones talk cause I talked to Keith and it was. It was a

it is a very fat boy interview his goofy. I got him laugh and he was he had a good time, but You know you did like what this was boom lonesome as a fifth stones record. You did Some live ones to profess studio em. They all have these enormous personality, air and- and there are really differently poland different direction to have you listen to any one track you go, but when you, when you put it together, you realise that its this perfect blend really corky but really perfect and there I don't like that. other great man I you know I've played with them a number time. Yes and you really understand it when you get inside of it because forget all the hype say and everything it's a really jocular loose fun. Musical conversation has gonna air

it's so much fun to play bass in the rolling stones and, and they they're great listeners they like jazz musician it they never played the same way twice. Someone does something to hear it. You Uke, you can tell just by talking to keep his fast year he's quick. He asked his sharp unhappy. The smart air charlie do some little thing in the high had Keith to react to it. Will impact on mic sings ronnie a place think it's. The interplay is so brilliant in this band they're, really on top of it, that much in it so yeah yeah, and they still are. I summoned stockholm in october, air on the snow filter too. They were awesome. They're not they're not mean backtracks on there. They're playing live all live, they they can't yeah. We did

went with them to the superbowl air and they were the first. Maybe the only band to play completely live on this, so you have seven minutes from the end of the second quarter. To get the entire stage set up on the field and everyone to be balanced and to knit yeah and they didn't have ronnies qatar for like the first thirty seconds and was like. Oh my one where I was sitting and actually you know where my gig was here. My gig at the superbowl was that the a b c or whoever thinks a b c. The sensors here didn't like two lines in the song. Wherever

you make a dead man. Come here start me up here am I am still your roost baby or am I just want a cock, santa rough justice and I had to hit the the the blind mute button, a x, microphone on cocks and cum air, and if I missed it, it was like a five million dollar fine. They had to pay. If this is yeah, we got it, I got so like, but this classic like. I was completely blown away by the the most recent record by boon last year. Thank you because you know people. well, like me, had been talking to. I talked to Keith about it. When I talked to him, I don't want you guys, do a blues record and there Is that done make like so so when, happen, and you know- and I got It- and I was like- oh my god, they did it, they like, I felt

you know it. You know like I just felt like. I was cheering in my car like that it it it worked because that's what they come from, that that record could have been there. Established yeah? Do you know what I mean in terms of the song liska Ribes absolute, and I was so impressed that you know not only the production but just how they got into the songs? And there is the problem with Blues, if there is a problem, is that you any idiot can play it and god bless the idiots and, I hope, you're having a good time but to own it. You knows covers is no easy trick now, so for them to own that, like they own that whole record, because they're the fucking rolling stone was one of those things. Of course. Of course right it was. It was an accident. Said. Let's do a blues. Her can never would have happened. Yeah we were getting The new studio were at british grove studios mark knopfler place in london, which is a great studio. He had never been in the air for such as getting use. The headphones was a little awkward

sir Keith and I know he had it in the back of his mind anyway. The way to get everyone focused was to he was holding onto blue and lonesome. This ok yeah yeah, and he said, let's do blue and lonesome here said they played it and it was magnificent yeah. Thankfully, Chris sharma, the engineer hit record and we went and listened to it and is undeniable. So I said well, let's do another one and it sure, as heck and at the end of the first day, we'd done five blues songs, Now no one said: hey do another. Five! We've got a blues album right, but we came back the next day and did more, but no one talked about it's a little like a guy, pitching a no hitter here. No one talks about it in the dugout. You jinx it right. No one's mentioned blues out right and at the end of like two and a half days we had oh record, and can and still no one said great, let's put out a blame all playing life. All love does now

not a single overdub. The thing is they were all in the same room and a lot of the drum sound comes from the vocal mic. For example, with areas. Hunched right punched line, right you'd lose the drums singer. I couldn't fix anything. So that's exactly as it happened. That's me Is there any like you to make his right? There's causes me other sad thing point that woman used to date like there's a lot of fucking recent blues in that guy, and you know why played the hell out of it, the harmonica any saying the shit out of some of them. He he's great on record. it's like I'm believable, neither there's something else. You know they do really than did the giants, who walk the earth, being hyperbolic, and why was when I saw them live and I hadn't seen them live since eighty one in san diego and they did a year in the uncalled they did midnight rambler. Maybe it was the last song and like how they to know that that song is just five guys, and you know when you

like as the original, as is its own thing. It's a studio think, but but the lie version on on on gets requires out is pretty standing within just hear them. Do it might just basic fuckin rock, and they did just so big there are one time a thousand years in the ninety yelling about telling it now. I appreciate your enthusiasm and I share it. There's one time it we were recorded bridges to Babylon is the nineties behind his, wherever in hollywood into which now east west studios and it's a big room, studio ones as an actor recorded with big orchestras here and now that making Keith and Charlie were alone in the room. When us was on dinner break there and I walked into town sometime and these three guys that their personalities so far exceed the debate,

injuries of their skin, that the room was full with the three of them stand that that the person, if you could view that there was a charisma camera yet they're like remember, we used to have those blow up dolls on the stage that were like rive stories high here. That's who they are right, yeah yeah, and they have to contain that in a in a normal body, but they're just the larger than life cats and when they play together does nothing He also did David Crosby records willie nelson records, Chris christophersen z, worked all angles of all types. Yes, it does. if the cooper kinds of music, but like do you walk towels always around like and then there's a few other guys that are always around like the David Crosby record? How is that working with him I'll have to disagree he's been over here? you wouldn't moved in trying to sell them. How do I go jewelry dave, I'm glad you doing the same, a boon out. There was great talk, india is put repose.

Currently we cover enough. I feel confident about that. Good work on that blade mills, I'm too, oh, thank you yeah. He sees his brother. Good and there's a real honor to play based on it. He's he's got good sound like he can like he's one of those wizard kids, where you like now my guys from outer space, this guy he's can be around for awhile yeah. It's interesting, though, because, like you know, he's got a great sense of as a producer himself right, yeah and he's got great feel for a guitar and he plays. He plays amazingly well enough. He seems to really be exceed ex excelling as a producer. he's got a real sense of of color me. I know he he paints an impressionistic canvas like he beat it's, it's really hard to do cause every summer, It has been done an already miranda's, so many tragic ways of getting to sounds that to come up with something fresh yeah, that's not just sound for the sake of sound, but as yet the contributing emotionally to the record and he's great at that.

an odd cat. He likes that he likely old toys. Like I talked to Neil young, I, like neil young, literally, gets on stage with a rig for an amp rig where either a no fuss going to make it through the show and that drives him he's, like you know, there's a there's a whole lot to be said for this something about old gear and Well, certainly, if you're talking about real instruments, I just got it. Carlene carter gave me a nineteen sixty seven fender jazz that belonged to her dad Carl smith, and it's been, Christine new, but on a wood, his age, do you ask one thousand nine hundred and sixty seven and there's nothing like old wood. you cannot manufacture what that does to the sound, even really electric instruct. So this is just the greatest

bass. I've ever played wow man, I have been using it on every two hours, played precision errors, and I say I even said: while I play positions as jazz bass, I left it sit and pray. She gave it to me few years back this year, I pulled it out and with the fashionable yeah it's just The old stuff sounds better. I know I like I tend to buy new stuff. Like that thing: that's when I got over here, but that's like I eighty six, it's not even that old, but that's old! Now! Well, yeah! I know it's got some patina now yeah yeah, I years ago, the guys in the fund a custom shop. I came up to my house when no we're doing stone today are largely made a guitar for Keith any and get in the gas a black actor and he's really good. I was the one that he made exactly off, that old blonde tele, that that was later consciously made him a guitar strat, but his all new looking- and he said it is great, but I'm never going to play this thing and I said to him: it's a catch. You

We had a mite cabinet and was like some suddenly got over an hour tat. They make. Oh, I am sure, is two years old, but it looked like it was three hundred air. So can't you just distress a guitar and the guy came back. A copy is lady said you gave me the idea for defend a relic series, for here is relic number one. He made me a precision base area with all nineteen sixty three parts on it and. and- and it is really good base yeah and it says relic one on it, and that was nineteen. Ninety three! So now it's older and now it's getting it's own patina, uh, huh, and so it it's not only a relic actually got some the irish on it? Here I don't I don't. I came, I ve not by a really old thing. I'd these acts are, that's it s, an origin, champ there. That's our eighth! If you plan to the bell and how that's That'S- that's, that's you know his blake ska e, a boy scout yeah. That is that, is he lives around the core?

austin. Oh yeah yeah. I have one Bother me, I don't want to get the guy shorts short or is it Austin Austin? yeah right off the hook it he was around the corner, and this is the first one. Is the prototype, I dunno. If he knows, I still have it, but he said because he was sixty. He fucking fix that old champ for me or that older deluxe, that's sixty five champ this beautiful year but he, like you know he said he wanted me to play through on it. So this is like the one his dad made the cabinet, and he gives me, should I just keep it so I don't sell it. So I don't like this I just had it: it's been years now he's going to know where it is, They sound quite standard. I don't understand how to work it. It seems to be, it seems complicated to me. You mean like, Why you plug inside and then there's the two plug holes and I dunno what you know what that means, or what I played sometimes just mess with all right. Yeah, I don't do it

is messing cause I mean cause everytime, I mess with someone. Might someone knows how to do this and I dunno you know, but that's the all, the all the cool came from having no one round. Who knew how to do it and raising really. Is you note let Alison so that, like motown wreck errant and a new those guys, I got to play with a lot of the skies when I listen to try and they were jazz musicians who were trying to imitate new york arm be records and they got it wrong. He I came up with Sutton. at least as good and as enduring yet, but it is because there is no one round to tell him how to do it. I know that that's inspiring to me. I am not going to be a daunting. I'm going to go fearless into just playing in my garage by myself. I dont get jack any pleasure that was done was pretty stuff about the stones. Right. If you want me, I

everybody: okay, everybody, okay, so I'm gonna play with start Yuri everybody. Alright, I'm just going to do some wala and get out alright, so the guy can smear cement on my house. Okay, I'll! Do this, I'm going to do it. it wow wow wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow,.

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