Like the guy. all right. Let's do this. How are you what the fuckers, what the fuck bodies, what the fuck and ears what the fuck stirs? Oh my god what's happening. It's me mark Maron. This is my show wtf, I'm still abroad day on the show. I talk to mandy stat miller, about her now, book on wife a bull to available wherever you get your books now. This was an interview that actually took place in the new garage were born. Of into the new interviews we ve had a few states happening. I just got to dublin, and it was a whirlwind of food. I always have been here at ten minutes. It seems I got here Sarah and I got here a little early. We were swept into the drawn by the guy in charge of the hotel, where we're staying hazy, guest services guy, he said he'll take care of our lunch

All I know is within the last I dunno I'd like to say seventeen minutes, I believe, If I believe I ate a soft shell crab a meditate, in salad a piece of soda bread, a piece of guinness, bread with butter slathered with butter, and then we some tea and then there was like a three minute break and we got to the room and then were scones in the room. So I had scones clotted cream a jam and some other tea biscuit type of things that were sort of the question in a boat, because I know what the fuck they were buying start ideas. Me for meeting him one of them sort of rice ball like a deep, fried ball Rice pudding that you injected jam into one of you ever heard that so now more jobs up on sugar and tea and shame what I miss on the menu was something called dumb duck fat roast ease. I don't know what that is to you. But are you like me in that if you saw that on a menu duck. Fat rose these

you probably order it. Even if you didn't fucking, ask what it was. I was very close to it, but I started the fries and he said no they're potatoes roasted in duck fat. I'm like okay, yes I'll, have some of those, and I think I ate, but probably the equivalent of six potatoes maybe I'm exaggerating the I'm, probably exaggerating, but you get the drift away. I don't need to. this entire intro about food. This just been my. Last hour, since I've got to dublin and and I'm incapacitated, because I'm full of food we're here for four days excited about their things. I want to do this more things I want to eat. I have a shot tonight. There's still. A few tickets available at vicar street and not many tickets. So if you are in dublin and you're hearing this, I believe you can still get tickets. Oh my god, I ate too much. I I I Amsterdam wanted to tell you about it it it was you know it's. I love the city, it's a beautiful city, it's an old city, but

It will a little city which is not bad. The show was great. I had a great time with the people that came out. I chose I chose not to do sad. You things I did not go to Anne Frank's house. I did not go to the the jew museum at the jewish museum. I did it was either. Do I want to be do I want? the sad you stuff or don't want to go on a boat so feeling see I thought there was probably the possibility that If I didn't do this add do stuff that I would feel guilty that I'd be a sad you on a boat, a pensive jew, maybe looking upward just floating around Amsterdam's canal. Sad, you on a boat which I discussed in my amsterdam. Show there a lot of improvising. the guy who open for me this guy Adam fields did a lovely job and he took me up with a guy guide, actually a comic but also owns a boat company businesses guy neil Robinson and his partner, a jesse

oh and they add they have a a boat business, those damn boat, guys, that's the name of their boat business d, a m get it like amsterdam, ne any nice guy They offered to take us out on the canals just me and sarah, and drove us around and fortunate elegant with the pick up spot, was right across from the m francs. How so I did see the house from the outside, but It's not a. Maybe is it? Am I a bad jew for not doing the sad you stuff, I'm not going to forget, I'm not going to forget. Never forget I'm, not forgetting I'm, not I'm not trivializing. I just I just didn't do it. We chose to walk around, take a boat ride. It was proactive. Alright, I see now like now, I feel I dunno mandy step mower is is on the show. Today she is a writer she's written for many things, she's written for

new york magazine, XO jane. Oh she's, also known for her dating column in the new york post, called about last night well, she's written a book on wife, a bowl, and ox about me a little bit in it, and we talk about that so that camp, telling isn't it so this is me and Is that mower talking back in the garage I'm in dublin. This is happening in the past. Across the ocean yeah. This is the half done garage. Not even half done is like I'm just trying to make it sound like, but you're you're among the first few guests, while in the new spy that's really really cool yeah I mean. The old one ina legend right, but this is. This is great because your closer to aids good to put your life,

you're. The agent is yeah. Don't you think why I'm having a weird time? I'm not I'm not! I love this place and I But it is a big change and it's weird I it's it's been fine but yeah and I I thought yeah. It is good. It's a good way to put your legend above your liking. What am I going to stay in that garage for the rest of my life? Just because it's the place that that thing happened first right, yeah, you, you build the next part of of the story in a place. That is better for you personally. So that seems like a theme. yeah your book about. But I don't want to I getting want to like. I had I'd rather no letter I talk about the story, then, because trying to remember. you're, obviously no one likes to get an email saying here is a passage from a book. Whereabout me right thought, you and make sure you're okay with it, yeah, yeah. Well I mean I I said I would,

I took certain people out because I didn't want to I I just don't want to be that person right and So you took him out without even asking you just right. I'm not gonna. Do that to that person is now known. Well, if they, if they say right, aren't felt aerial, then I say that there was one well when I touch Jonathan aims. He He he about yeah and I mean my feeling was that's why You are, I didn't. I didn't put him. In a in a light where he did anything wrong. The whole book right laughing at myself and making I solve the asshole right so you a memoir, though, isn't it

yeah. I did that and I threw some people under the bus in a way by high dad. I didn't think I did like it was my dad ran. You know, but, like I thought like will, this is my side of the story and I have a right to it, but the boy he was mad me for years really yet yeah my sister, she disputed to the death certain things, and I really I took those things out and Amy was in strange re having to call teddy s story right. Yet weird, how memories you know don't like someone else's perception of the same event is just like about this yeah. Well I mean and and that's why I tried to show everyone. The only person I didn't show where's my ex husband just because I I just like the value and engage with them. Probably yeah. Pretty much anything is a totally fine per se right.

I mean there's a reason you marry someone sure in the first place sure but yeah I just I didn't want to get in to all of that, because some people have the ability- and I mean any probably still well where you can write an email to someone, and it just is, history, its you to add your cellular level right, the it's weird like I am all I mean my point was like I'm not. You know I I when you send me that, and I read it and he said, there's an option where you know I don't mentioned but can I read it? Am I tell you know like you if that that they that's not bad? Is that What happened? Why am I going to be a dick about it? Yeah, I I mean that's very that's very that's very cool of you and I and I it makes me respect people who tend to open up about their own lives when they aren't just super intensely control, freaky about always control.

The narrative sure matter what I was just Can you put it together? I mean like, I know it isn't awkward started, it's not really awkward, but it. It was on my mind, but I know that this book is about. You know, sort of your journey from divorce through this fucking booze fest that you had self hate in fun yeah and onwards into recovery and into a good relationship. Can it kind of them feral whore yeah stops being fair ah ha. I was trying to remember how it all happened. Like did. Did you Have you me and then asked to be in europe in the pilot thing right, I remember what happened. I know. Did you right in the book I read I read now. I didn't include all the things I had to catch the eye, thousands and thousands of words. I knew you knew my friends. I have like you, I didn't know you, but I dont know how what I can tell you exactly, because I think it's an interesting example of how people can meet people that they admire righteous

I'll just go through it really quickly throw we have I'm in I'm, I'm I'm in Chicago and I'm in a pr job and during the day. All I do is watch comedy online. Well, I'm writing. This is before he moved to new york before him into Europe and one of the sue, Ann taylor. Negron are the only two people who, when I saw them, I then look them up immediately and I think I was watching something of you on Conan and so I joined the email list, your email list and then you know, cut two years: later when I'm at the new york post- and I get your. email, saying you're doing somewhat something with Janeane garafalo and I'm. You know huge janeane, garafalo fan and so I asked the post if I could shoot some video of you guys

and I went- and I did that and they put up a little in the art post, video and then I was working on a story about stocking axes of x. Is there and in terms of you know, seeing who they're fucking right exactly the end, then so I quoted year joke for that peace. and then I was out in LA and I had a good meeting with hbo and we talked about doing yes, The show inspired by my life, and so I just was like I've gotta shoot something right and yeah I reached out to you too play the role of my boyfriend, who I ended, the relationship by fuck two italian pilots and I met on the street. That's a true story: yeah yeah,

yeah, I'm not very good. At dealing with emotions, I decided. Suddenly everything comes up and then I do thing like that, and I'm trying to be better about that so you emailed me. I think I called you were like yeah, okay Could I I think I think you are like this girl, my b. I don't know whatever what it hurt. I I checked you out because you had your new comics, like you somehow integrated in the community. I know in the book now how you met everybody, so we go to your house, we shoot the thing where we get to a crazy in the shooting he had as we ought to make out right yak as europe my boyfriend ryan died, though the little student who is shooting it she's like now slap her ass. Now, do you know yeah or the shocker? I mean she didn't say that, but like it, it was just because- no boundaries real quickly, yeah, yeah and it was to a tape I do yeah. I do have the tape

yeah. That's how does it work? I mean it's funny? I my body definitely looks tighter. I think you look the exact same. You know it's yeah, so yes, so, ok, okay! So then we do that. We make our fake and then I said well that felt good. Let's make out real right and then you you, you were. You came out to queens yeah. I remember that was quite a trip for neuro of drunk right, yeah yeah, I mean not. You know, I mean niger that fun drunk right and then we we we we had sex- and you told me to this is a funny. The book. Actually, then, I would not wish I remembered it better, but you told me to slap you you're right. Yes, I did right. we had sex one more time right and they were sober yeah, and then I slapped you again and you're like what the fuck ied and I'm like. What are you talking about yeah. I I just I boys

I had ever in illumination into drunk sex versus sober sex, so yeah yeah cause I'm not I'm not in I'm, not a slapper. Really, no, and I'm not and asked me to. I think I just I think I wanted to like show that like look how interesting I am oh yeah yeah, you know and well that that seems to be sort of through the through line of the book that you know the two, your work. You know I have on masking yourself right, yeah very much so so like why What is the whole journey of it before we get into that the journey to? Are you sober now? You got so yeah yeah, seven years yeah. Seven years, yeah, yeah, two thousand and ten graduation. Thank you. That's pretty amazing! Yeah! It's a big life difference it's everything and you know I have to say- and I have asked to be- you know slapped inside ex riddles were similar than on me, but that's fine. Yet no! No, but I was going to say it makes said exciting exit. I guess

just want to give a little lake p. Say advertisement for sobriety that you know this. Oh yeah you you have and survive yeah because so aware? It's almost like you are on a drug yeah that that can become a problem okay sure yeah with the reclamation thing yeah, which is kind of what I did after initial so when you get sober like right after I saw you like two thousand and one june tita. Tank wow like you, that is so. I got you right. Pre bottom yeah career, yeah. What would I remember at you weren't, my bottom? No, no! I wasn't it couldn't have not with two times. I'm sure that I am someone's bottom for? I always did wondrous in question. Do not why you can you can probably

oh, if it really was that eventually the reach out to make an immense sunken yeah yeah. I did those during the book as I had never done. My first step- and I was just so consumed with that men and just talks when you got angling, arise out of pity lobbying. Sure when I got sober, but also during the course of I wrote this book over the past year, and there was a time when I just was as having to go through all these historical documents of emu. I'll, send voice recordings and you kept area and clearly yet taxis, yeah, I've always kind of had died of mine said, and so I want mine said that belgium in need this. I'm going to need this shit well. The mindset that the one thing people have always responded to me in terms of my writing. There is, when I write about my life right and so Evidence of your wife needs to be kept yeah

so narcissist act natural. I mean you eat like a lot of times. You want that stuff and you don't know where to find it. You know it's weird how much you do have saved. Even if you don't know you have saved, you know what I mean like there's tax, where you thought you threw him away. I don't know I've got all this shit from a decade ago. will in now. Sometimes if someone texts me something that pisses me off, I just I delete the whole thread because it's like a living thing, in my phone right, but then it still there habitats directive, you text don't it comes right back, yeah yeah! You can never get rid of anything, it's kind of scary, but I guess it's good, but it's weird that shit is africa yeah you could yeah and obama yourself and go off the grid. People are doing it, but so what you are resentment. While you were writing it yeah, because, I just felt like I just fell like oh, I never. This person doesn't understand the context of this,

when you were reaching out to people. You mean no no even before just when I was so like, and I would give this advice to anyone who works in a corporate job. You can export your mailboxes just find a tech person cause a lot of times. You lose when you knows yards of your eye is actually, and so that's how I had a lot of my post office. I have done that and so, if I'm, if I was looking through just e mails from someone who may be had cultivated me to be their best friend because they thought I could help them in their career by placement or whatever, and then you know changed her out whatever was that cause resentment or you know just guys whatever I I just my mood cause. You know so I I got married to pat dixon has a comic and he he was the one who suggested it when I was writing, because it was interfering with the

our lives. I was just you know, sitting there crying or taking out my anger. On him going through this stuff, you yeah yeah, and when I did it I just like. In an hour I wrote out a three hundred different resentments like I was like Jesus. Rice gun road. They now yeah aid. It's weird how how much you carry inside yourself, oh yeah, inches riker, like into each at you, makes ya'll tighten fucked up the head its highly any taken out, another people, that's right, I mean yes, yeah yeah, because you can't take. You can only take so much out on yourself before before it just the odious It was over yeah, give yourself a break, ruin someone else's wife. it's like you wanna it, like you wanna. In fact people with what you what you feel you become a toxic

being right because you're not letting you go, you not being honest with yourselves for you're, not you know, processing why member white at the one day I do remember like, and I wasn't even drunk, but I remember that small, your small part minimum rang out you, but You remember you were like hostelry sexy like yours. like. You know there was like it's. Not it's not not! it's no. Now I may I have a very, very cool turn of phrase you know but you know I mean like, like I remember you being like you know like I knew you were angry. I dont know what, but I like, I felt We like one, but there were moments or a like after I. I is this enough, but me what else can I do do I need to get right right, right, yeah using me to beat you up somehow sexually

oh very much, yeah, yeah, no and and- and I tried to I mean because I I tried to make that clear and when I wrote about sexual encounters that were kind of sketchy or abusive, that it was a joint effort because, I mean there are times when I may I read about losing my rigidity in the book, and that was you know I I I wouldn't say I had a whole lot of culpability for that cause. I was you know I was fifteen right. I was what it was. I had never really drank up like a drunk but as an adult I had been in the world and I wasn't being manipulated. I wasn't being grown taken advantage of a lot of times it was yeah. I wanted someone to debase me because that's what my pavlovian association was with

sex right and we allow new track that in the book, like I mean where'd, you grow up here, evidently diagonal yeah and in europe. What what's the story down there, both your folks still down there they're both down there and I have kind of a weird dysfunctional family. My dad is blind Yet not that did he was Is there a yeah yeah he lost. He lost his job. He lost his eyesight in vietnam when he was twenty one in nineteen. Sixty eight and has kind of like a a rage, aholic, a frontal lobe injury that leads to a lot of unpredictable behavior and then my mom is severely depressed and has obsessive compulsive disorder. So has a thing where she has to wash her hands and my guess. The fact that he's blind in a rage is a is a little bit comforting in the sense that hunger,

as you are concerned, get out of the way. If you I desire I just wanted my dad to just like me and approve of me, and I yeah I mean I think I definitely was just one of those. You know. I think wayne fetterman has some joke about having benefited a lot from a women's daddy issues wanting to go back and you know think the fathers sure and yeah I mean that's. Obviously I used to do joke about that about my business, a business card, resolving daddy issues since nineteen, eighty, nine exactly yeah yeah, but they don't get resolved. You know, that's not going to do it. I think that I have experiences

In my family that are somewhat similar to yours that I went when anna and I feel like I have a you know like pat, has experiences too. I think this must be a commonality for a lot of people in entertainment. Is you don't? ever get the great job really really impressed. If anything, it starts to become a weird kind of sadistic mine fact: I was yeah. Okay, you know like there's is a tone to it or or they pretend like. They don't know what you did yeah or like it's not that important. I or or am I yeah. My sister's reaction was I to my book advance, while you're gonna have to pay taxes on that work, And I was just like you know, bra oh hats, off

I I had a. I had an interview with artie Lange that I was proud of recently and my dad has told me to always call him and tell him when I have something in the daily beast so that he can then listen to it on his blind. Send reader or whatever, and so I did that as he asked me you and after that, he his reaction. Was that took me a long time to read? and I and I and I tweeted that the back of the yorker, tv writer, and she said you know: bravo, excellent neg, Emily. Exactly Emily there there's some. about just other people, acknowledging that it is a dynamic and that you're not just a crazy person. I am because it helpful yeah yeah

when you have that when you grow up with that, you assume even good things that people say are However the I guy, I can't take a compliment without thinking like what what do you like, so it is hard to tell but pretty clear. Yet you know women, but by the with somebody who I have a relation. Whether I've decided doesn't like me or I decided to judging me what even if they earnestly say, hey that was great. I'm like nah yeah yeah, but as much anymore? I do. I do. I just have different levels for people and I restrict how I taken whatever their saying so that I can kind of protect my heart and head. So it's like. I have certain people who are in the sadistic frenemy, but yet they're wildly intelligent category they're always going to ass run, then you have the people who

You know I don't have. Some agenda are playing games right and then I heard you you have Alan on meetings for the rest right I can't keeping boundaries when you grow up with the rage and weirdness is like that and no boundaries. It's horrendous. It's horrendous, like I, there is some people like I'm pretty good with I caught like angry people with the boundaries like I know when somebody's like now fuck I and need to deal with that at all, but needy people as all other different thing, yeah yeah they are taking crores, under my fucking skin, how how sal? Just like you know, some people are are are very kind of like I can feel when somebody's sad and needy and like I can't win, if someone's just an asshole, reduce bag or something you know over your compensating alpha dude. But, like I see him an m m were round and that with their friends kind of I have it, I can hold that boundary. But if someone just exuding like sad neediness loss this, I feel it

like I feel like a guy, almost get mad at them, but does that do you tend to go for women? Like that? I mean. Do you hallo. Ok, though, as I was wondering is lying were sperience are integrated experiences well yeah. when you, when you say, gets into your skin. Is it because that person's my dad oak, and yeah. He just always sort of like sad and always said my dad gets kind of like a misery. Boner you know like just cannot wait to see and amenities had the look I always feel like. I have to do a long qualifications or people listen and they're, just like what an asshole to be talking about in anything but a hero, worshipping tour terms, Does this guy? But I mean you, don't know until you know right by but yeah just he he I mean when I, told him that I was getting married and I'm

thirty nine and every conversation as a woman when you're in your 30s is Are you seeing what's going to? Is there any possibility? And so you kind of think this is a slam dunk visit this lamp downright and rosa and yeah. My dad said I just don't want to see you get hurt, and I got silently body but me, and I got very interesting and very interesting and an end and I got really upset and then he just started screaming and saying. Well, why don't you give me a scrapped, I'm sick of being the families asshole and he got off the phone and then my mom, I said: oh, you know dad yo aaron ogre, go to yeah affect very accurately. Very much is Emmi. She is a fascinating woman. She is, she is how larrea she is one of the Jews driest funny.

People, I've ever met and she had me one time type up her essay for one of her continuing credits to be a teacher right She was having to study. I think, like microcosm and macro has microcosm and macro chasm in school teaching areas a judge in education and so the line in there, that was really revealing. She was writing about choices in her life. She started out by saying I married a blind man, so I would never have to be alone she literally just wrote that and oh man- and I were I mean party- you, you kind of respects that self aware and then part of you is and they always be needed yeah. Always be needed and the my parents is they may he. She married him

after you got back yeah people, love yeah. That is, everyone is super interested in that yeah it. She actually cut off a engaged to a man who was super normal with both eyeballs you know an upstanding guy in washington state and she cut it off when she met my dad because she got a winner this affair. He while I mean he is very charismatic, and I will I will say, there's something about that: alpha war, energy and the fact that he I mean he does he really shouldn't have survived. It was thirteen hours of surgery to get em the to get shot in the head. Yet he got shot twice in the face, and oh my god and a yeah. So there there's something there's that kind of you know x factor. Think about people like that yeah

if you drink or two while so didn't drink for a long time because he has a metal plate in his head. And loud over the classic metal play vienna version ahead, guy, yeah, yeah and and and by the way everyone in my family. I feel egg above else worships comedy and- and That is the one thing I love about them because, like work, everything were saying they would enjoy it good. You know, yeah and, and just that to me, that's a very special thing. Yeah. Definitely so, and it's a it's a pleasant way to avoid feelings. It's a Actually, that is yeah. That's something pat has taught me, which is weird, because I just I thought he was going to be just another. Dick comic and the fact that he had all these years of therapy and sobriety and didn't like little

duping jokes being made when you're in the middle of a real moment her, like whites of right, what he's high you know that we do It- has tat yet is bury it more with funding as yet so my my dad was adopted and tea was given up for adoption, because his birth mother was an alcoholic cocktail waitress I had an affair with a married man and then his adoptive parents were both alcoholics also the triple winner, yeah yeah, and now you then vietnam. So he got another doctor. I don't know when it was ten years ago resuming, and he said no, you can drink just not liquor. So yeah my parents, beer here, wine. They share wine so now hardware, because he knew that would escalate

yeah. I don't know what I don't know how the whisky less metal plates. Oh, I mean and that was another. I mean that was another fight. We it was when I, when I went home to live with my parents in sight diego. Ah, when I was thirty six and I was at So I'm forty two now, but that was two thousand and twelve and I had I'd come out here. I had met scott iron singer, who used to be like a p at howard, stern, and then the guy- and I had done my charming song and dance, and he said, while all fund you to leave the post and come out to l a and you know we can do business together

and then I just we had a fight and kind of yelled at me and I decide will fuck this shit, I'm going to go live with my parents when I'm thirty six, three hundred dollars in the bank. That's a big life yeah yeah, you were sober and I was Sober yeah, and so, but in those it was like my second year of sobriety and it's only living with my parents, which I'm sure they were thrilled about whenever you're thirty six year old comes home and has quit the new york post standards, like this is what I'm doing now guys staying here in san yeah and they, but my dad felt like it just again that I mean he would he he's really into his wine. So he would ask me to like pick out the bottle for the night and I would try explain that I'm not one of those people who is just like you can, drank round me. In fact, like I, you know right,

by a gesture but to me I felt like the lack of sensitivity, I've even wondering rat right, yeah you're, not doing a toast to me and my sobriety and I just would like a just. Sometimes it is feels like those of devils Yeah. No doubt that the idea that that's his connection, that's how he in engages with the emotionally but about, but I ll You know it's like. I hate talking shit about him, he's funny and I love him and grades just he's a very unique human being being very diplomatic, which is a nice word, fur codependent, protective, but yeah an idea. I can't I can't the idea of no, you don't want throw your dad under the bus and also I wouldn't be a writer if it wasn't sure my dad well, that's what I say is that eventually you get to a point with these. people where you realize their shortcomings and you you know even

enough about yourself to detach from the shitty ones and actually be able to say, Now I am not going to change a guy right yeah in that's just the way it well, then that was something that I like. I never went to AL anon because I didn't think you know my so like my dad when he drinks actually I like it, lady, like you, know a tiger under sedation. no it's a great that no but when I called him, I think the first time I was trying to work on my four step and to talk to him about resentments, do. I want to hear what a shitty parent I was no, and I just I was such a wreck when I went to my therapist, and that was when she really asked me to go to Al Anon and that's when I started kind of implementing the boundary of detaching with love. and also you know, go where it's warm out of the hardware store for milk and

not not trying to continuously close that that loop right of getting that closure and that healing, because all you're doing is just continuously re, wounding yourself and MIA. Like a hamster on a trauma any do that now you relationships right, yeah. Why you got to figure the guys got to have it pretty good chip on the shoulder. From pretty good reasons, sir. Yeah. So when you leave home, when did you how many siblings you have I have? I want older sister. What did she do and has she's been very successful in retail, life is down there. Yes, she's she's right around the san diego area yeah, and- and so I was, I was going to write my my book about the post or whatever, and then I got a call from exogenous and then I went back to new york. So that's how I got out of san diego. How long would it? How long did you actually stay home? So it's not bad. There wasn't like you weren't, like you didn't dig in,

now you're right, I don't get my old stuff out. Can I see the mild room kind of shit now now it why it was really interesting, though too I feel like everyone who has a dysfunctional childhood should go back as an adult when their sober and re experience it and see all the things you went through when you were a kid and how that must have affected you, and how could I mean? I know it's still there, image affected me as an adult comes right back yeah yeah I mean I see. I see it all all the time and it's like it's disturbing, really cause it it. It still affects you, no matter how fucking sober you are like. I don't. I have very little patience for for the emotional dynamic I have with my parents for more than a couple of days, and it's not even that destructive. It's just sort of like the yeah. I I just I just want to like focus on like an interesting thing is: is that

They adore pat, you know, and, and so I feel like if I can always have pat there, and he can just be pulling Johnny Carson and jack benny, and they can be talk about your harmony and my dad can be giving his philosophy Richard pryor and robin williams in and that's that's all. I want to do like. I don't want it, but my dad is really funny like he said at the end of the trip when pat and I went out there, he said dumb well This has been incredibly emotionally, exhausting pat, said is so cool. I can imagine my family saying mad, and you know those are the parts of my family that I love is that extreme honesty, so yet woods, have someone you have to go there and kind of step in front of the bullets for you, yeah

need a even if you're, not in a relationship, I hastened somewhere near the role of it, but only on your yet visitation visit, my pretty pay. So this as the bee maya. I did that with the women for years just go. When I go to florida two thanksgiving or whatever, even if I wasn't with them for that long via nokia yeah. You can go meeting your family and I'm like they don't just it's just. I just needed somebody there to step in in between when she looks at me. It's like a distraction and like enron or more When did you leave home to initially to go to new york? What was the big idea? Well, I went to northwestern for journalism school. Ninety three to ninety seven, and so that was when I left yeah, that's a yeah evanston a little north of chicago. Do I know where those yeah it's a gig there yeah

rogers park, there is used to be a mainstage theatre, nicer, very much say ah and then a kind of travelled all over working into french newspapers and then doing straight journalism? Stuff, oh yeah? Where am I going to from paper? So I can go home township no so part of northwestern's program is something that they call either teaching newspaper or teaching magazine and so, depending on what want to go into or teaching tv they place you. Actually add a newspaper and so for one quarter, you work at that newspaper, so in the oj J trial happens and when the northwestern wildcats won through bull and was all historic in ninety five. I was down at the fort lauderdale sun, sun sentinel and I was doing cops and all of those things did you like the yeah yeah, it's fun yeah. It's it's. I mean the thing about a newspaper

people is that they're, just like comedy people, they have incredibly dark humor yeah, it's there's a certain there's, a certain seen it all understand. The big picture, honesty, it's being. That way is just the very job. You know why pitch that story and I felt another egg die. You know. die don't worry. When I come back, you'll be spared, you know I mean just a That, for me, is the entire comfort of life, because it's filled with so much tragedy and I I just I think that is the most healing thing there is- is really dark humor to be able to like, instead of just be like a victim to it to be able to, I don't know, get some kind of like life

worse juice from we know you grew up with it I you to be spend your whole life with a guy I who in a went through at your dad, did and then have to deal with that. You know the balance of of having his own sort of issues and then how its manifesting in the family I mean our and then the humor part of it. Are you really designed for dark humor and it- and I think the other thing about you know my dad was, how just just completely phony and fullest shit people are because you know you would see someone who might be giving a speech about giving back to veterans and then just not want to get anywhere near my dad, because I have to deal with.

You know and the angry wine guy yeah in seeing you know just people stare at him and seeing people's reactions. I think really informed a lot of my appreciation for authentic people versus just you know, users and and status climbers yeah. So why mean you talk about that? A lot like just even in this conversation like I I mean I don't I I have a hard time identifying, but your users That is climbers a lot of times, because I've never been in a position to where I could be used. I guess, but I mean You're kidding right, not really, I mean and even now I mean you have now what will sure I know when people want to do the podcast, but you know I know also like know you're not going to do bucket.

in writing. When so there's that I can't be duped by it. Ok, but a bright like I I'm sort of a sucker. Sometimes I don't always know when summons being earnest, they're just ambitious, ran to like into after you know it takes time yeah. I don't always know it right away. I'd have sex with them. First nights yeah, but but like how'd, you get the gig at the post and why the post? I mean I proposed the post, so I got it because the he's now the editor in chief of the post, Stephen lynch he had always my writing when I was a student at northwestern and had kind of followed my career, and so I do and what we are doing with how did he see writing? Well, so I had the places I had worked up and the point where I left newspapers I had, and you know, interned at the village voice

yeah and I had gotten. Erica, yeah, yeah. I work for leslie seven and I I got a competitive internship right when I graduated working for the style section of the washington post, which was like oh she's, got some on her in journalism in feature writing and Then, after that I went to kind of like, what's known as like a kind of stepping stone paper or, like I worked with Jeff Zeleny, who then went on to become the obama corresponding now is on tv all the time and die at at the and register in iowa, so I worked there for a year. And I all that time I I dated for like five years, my college sweetheart and I just was really unhappy at newspaper. I left it. I got married Yan iowa and I took a job working p r. I was

was writing for northwestern medical school's alumni magazine. Oh my god and you were married, didn't marry a college sweetheart. I did yeah yeah, so I was with him ten years total five years married right from when I was like twenty to thirty and then so. I started at a certain point I was. I was on a track to become a word at northwestern, you get. You know huge college discounts, and so I was like how can I use this, so I did everything I needed to do I got into the master's program in education at northwestern and I was going to have like a safe nice little life as an english teacher, add to this guy who didn't really like me very much and then the first course that I took was a story telling because I needed a public speaking requirement here and I had this. Teacher reeves cons and it was right when nine eleven happened and why

I did was I I. I wrote the story of my dad that I had tried to write virgin Weingarten, whose kind of like a big deal editor at the post. She discovered dave berry and he had been open to me writing about my dad for the posed, and I just I couldn't do it I was that age when it was ninety ninety seven. I was an intern and I'm I'm interviewing my dad's trauma surgeon and asking him about where the bullets went in and the surgeon is disgusted by me saying: will your daughter's developed a very ghoulish interest in your injury, jerry and I'm just I'm just trying to fuckin put it together and make it work and get the clip, and I just I just didn't: do it and I only wrote that story for this story storytelling class and it was the first time, really written for myself and in a way that was more more myself. in quite a while and every one was in a very risky.

Oh, my god, you're an amazing right and getting that kind of feedback and and feeling how that felt. I suddenly. reevaluated that me we might cause. I thought my life was over at twenty seven. I thought it. You know I had my shot and was way too old and I couldn't ever do anything different and it made me just think what did I ever wanted to do? I always said I was going to write for a alive and vanity fair, and you know never took any steps in that direction. I just didn't think you can t take that right and so yeah then I just started taking screen writing courses and to start taking classes at second city, and I started doing stand up and up. Open mics and develop friendships with some. You know, makes on the chick ha ha, go boards or whatever and see mailing when oh yeah, how canadian, like you know it go guys, yeah yeah and a storytelling class yeah, and then you to read the story yeah

yeah and I and from there I decided well I'm going to just going to start raining again create a blog, but I was so embarrassed, because I just thought that I had had all these legit credits and to be doing like a blogspot blog just what a confession, of failure yeah. You know I mean I'm sure like when you initially did the pie cast a mean. We are living at windmills and so so I did and so yes, Steve play, saw the writing. I had done on my on my blog and so talk to me about potentially unit working at the post, and it was very much a long shot at me. He had to really do a lot of convincing cause. I hadn't worked in newspapers in years, but they they then hired me and it was like. I turned thirty. I got divorced. I got the job at the post.

and also something has started to say earlier, but I didn't finish was that my parents divorced each other. Five years ago, when I was married, they were divorce. Then time and my dad had two different fiance is right. When I announced that I was getting divorced, they re married each other, so well. It was. A lot of changes, and chaos did you finished masters now? I never a single education course. Not a single one. All I did was take it storytelling that did it. that did it. That really did it and also, I think it just it. Happening no right, I had to write the story of my life on september eleven to turn in the next day and there's it it's just two of a very intense time for a kind of you, no question

I mean I just remember asking myself: what did I ever want to do with me, and I had known people at northwestern who had gone on and been successful as comedy writers, and I thought why couldn't I do that, and that was something I had. Never even just consider it. It is like do any comedy writing for digital sketch and stuff. When you were there. What I mean I just I mostly took- I mostly took a ton of classes. I took you know why, sharing a helper in it. I in second city classes, I took acting classes, which taught me so much about writing, And I I did some You know I. I worked with a lot of kind of people who didn't We have any poll in the industry, but because I didn't know anything, I thought they did so I just did tons of free work on

that's what you do yeah until you kind of learn. the world ever acting it. I better free works on terrible. If you do the work, you know it's not mounting to nothing. No it's not it's not, but I just in my book. I try to give every single seat. that I learned I wish that I could have given even more, because something that I have noticed is that people are very protective, sometimes about crucial bits of information. You you know like the fact that amendment years until an entertainment lawyer, Jamie roberts, his is a lawyer for caroline's and that's how I met him. You know was just droning on and on to him about. I dunno that I had met one of the real housewives and what was that going to do for my career, and I think I had an item coming up in page six and all these exciting things were happening and I you know someone

and then they were interested in me for reality, t v and he was like Mandy. When people want to do a deal with you. You know. And you know it's very like embarrassing to just be sitting there, You know I'm a naked like an asshole, you just having had everything pulled out, but it's such a gift. It such a gift, because everything, changes after that and you're able to realize that if someone is unable to, and I'll. Give you a deal memo fairly. initially sure that you know they're. Just holy shit, yeah they're talking and There is no harm in that, but it's not gonna lead anywhere, so you know deduced, do you? Did you see it yourself at different times in your careers? One of these people that was just painfully opportunistic? Oh yeah.

Of course, you cop that yeah I mean, I think, that's pretty I think that is a pretty crucial. quality for anyone who is successful. In media, because the entire nature of it is to seize opportunities and that by nature, a lot of times can lead to opportunism but I do think that entirely. You know just opera stigma. Market were matter right. Will you I mean I I can write, but also. I think that I really developed a sense of putting the person before the story and working at the post and seeing you know what happened to me and stories that I did for them like

in just writing a story turning it in and the headline initially had been confronting oh some I passed, and then it comes out in the newspaper and the headline is how I went for chill to psycho, You know and just knowing what can happen at a tabloid or at any media. You know when you agree to do it. I started then telling people Just see you know. You know this this. This could happen because I don't want to. I didn't want and you know, set people up for 'em and I didn't want to have that kind of on my conscience that I was throwing sacrificing some one else's dignity. For just you know some dumb clip here. So what yeah I mean uh right because you didn't have control over it and then you know you never do he never did. I think that's something unique to what journalism. I guess

have wide writing or whatever that the cut throat nature of quick bade in in ending the story, and then I imagine the concessions you have to make. With your own principles has got to be a pressure. That's percy always yeah. I mean you, I I mean I was told by more than than one person. when I would agonize about things related to feeling like I was, you know, hurting other people. Ah you just you just got to you know not think about it. You just got to not to just you know just I put it away somewhere and when did that bite you in the ass? Well, I think that it I mean I don't know that it ever really, I didn't ever really have anyone who Let me mean I had various people who were. You know furious at me.

and then a lot of times what happened would be whatever had given cause to their fear, play, some outrageous headline they Call me later and say: oh my god, I got all these tv booker's and producers calling may be a well but bet for, but just in terms of like how it felt alive. You know for me, starting to just feel gross You know that the story that I wrote about in in the book is when I was I was asked to do a takedown isn't bethany frankel, who I had encountered and she's some one of those real housewives and she'd always been, you know nice to me die. I certainly didn't have anything against her and I just felt like there surely has to be someone else who can

right this story- and I was told that you know I had to do it and I will say, though, that dumb he is someone who has a lot of enemies in the business as never. You are assigned to write like a take down type pisa and the word gets out and you get this. This influx of calls you start to see how the enemies. someone someone has and when you stop being nice to people when you're on the way when you're on the way up here, yeah You saw that action yeah I yeah and then I had I. I had told that story to aaron Sorkin and that became the genesis for like fur the newsroom and evil gossip character who they

bad mandy in the writers' room, but you know cause he wanted to make it clear that it wasn't me this. You know character played by hope, Davis, who was just ah you know just using easy sexuality and saying to the lead, overman ask type character: Jeff Daniels, Jeff Daniels yeah. You just passed up a sure thing, you know and watching mad and just knowing you know that I was exactly like that. In the end, I think I would say you just passed a sure thing but derive right, regret, organs, kind of weird nineteen thirties rhythmic writing her eye, which I like, but so you got, but so, but at that time were how was it? triangle. How did that sort of unfold you Sorkin overman yeah, So that was just like I kind of became I kind of

whose sobriety like a like in a way where it was like. I was so aware, and so you know instead of like doing the steps and like being this more authentic person, I just yeah, I kind of the whole. You know star fucking opportunism you know social climbing fang played out- I I would I would read these. I would read forty eight laws of power and the art of seduction by robert Greene, as opposed to the the big book and yes- the big. If I didn't drink so I mean, I guess, that's good, but I just I You know I wanted. I wanted something that was like, like thrilling and exciting and yeah. So I just I, I met a sorkin, and all were men and lord grove who set the daily bees. And I would just kind of like

mail them about oh and overman's. Taking me out- and you know- and it's really it cause. That's one of the bits of advice is try to create love triangles and and it was his eminence- I the only one I really dated seriously I dated lloyd seriously for about a year and overman. I just went on a couple of dates with and then sort- and you know it was just like hookups and dates over. You know a matter of years, but I it was it was. It was something that was in my mind, not in it's not like any of those guys were sweating, in each of you know? That was that was to me the center of my exciting years, big guy sure yeah, because I mean I couldn't. I couldn't be interesting on my own, but if I could attach myself to a man who was then I could derive some sort of self worth sure cause you

the way that you get self worth as you, you fuck it into yourself So is this? Is it part of the advice therapy alimony and the, but there is a power to it too, though I mean it's not I mean on some side. I could see it. You know the the self esteem you know acting out and all that, but to have power over the can on some level. Yeah yeah, you you're, not the other thing is, is that I now, but now you can make them things yeah in and you I mean the other thing is- is I went from like a size fourteen to a size, six and I started dying my hair and wearing makeup and doing my so I kind of when I came to new york, sex, and I started dying my hair and wearing makeup and doing my so I kind of I came to new york, I kind of had the first experiences of being

like a little bit of a piece of now look like like a seven may be either you know like. So. That was trying to use that specific kind of power, thinking that that was something that was really important to capital. as on a limited right lifespan. Now now did you do any of the enemy as other than Jonathan names. Give you pushback about the names being in the book. in the book, but just because it was about drugs, and he said you know his mom really. You know, say his name is included in the book, but just because it is about drugs and he said his mom really you know, follows his his No, I and then and then yeah another another, pretty famous comic. I just took out entirely because I just it is not important round her and if I would have had to take,

everyone out that would have been that would have been ok or by it. I just felt like you: dont do pied cast If people anonymizing them, you don't. You know, I mean it's a and also of really big theme. in my life has just been being. You know the girl in high school, who you invite over to help you with your homework and stay up all night laughing with and then at the party with the popular kids. You just don't sierra yeah, and so I think that I know it is so sad, it's very heartbreaking, and it's like that that right there is like high school, well, you know I mean, and- and it is for like a lot of women who just don't have that

socialization training of like a kind person to say. Oh, you don't have to worry about that they're all just going to be. You know they're going to no one's going to turn. More thing or even about talking frankly or candidly here What I learned about the memoir thing or even about talking. Frankly, your candidly here yeah you know without in nodding. relation was a woman I visited thing of advice that I got the that in a way- you do right, your site is something tat, the their person doesn't have a voice in it right. You know in that, like that was when the things that stop me from getting to personal about relationships, I'm in you're right because, like you start talking or you write stuff- and they may want a rebuttal, but what are they gonna do right, ere I

yeah in, and I mean when I say when I said the portion to overman beer. You know he had notes heated, haven't noticed this yeah yeah and you know I was here not at, and in incorporates I mean it wasn't like it wasn't like. He told me to write something not at all, but it was just took a cleric. location of, like you know just something like a you know, nice of him to remember. Well, I mean I don't know if you've ever I just went in a couple of dates. How do I know in you know? I would much prefer to nice of him to remember Well I mean I, I dunno, if you've ever read David Carr's night of the gun, Heaven and so he's like one of the most AMOS nor you yeah, ok, you know he is, and so he in his memoirs he kind of sought out to do the anti and James Frey, where he used all of his

source material, any interviewed people, and so I tried to kind of keep that in mind, I have a reading out to people yeah yeah, so you all the places that you work, that we would know like the post and then you did what xo Jane everything right. Yes, I did James researching pratt hired me worked there for two thousand twelve. She has, cat marnell had just quit and then you were doing the dating column. Yeah I mean I was writing about me now my life, who oh your hooking up, where the area who I was you now good gig, though yeah it was. It was fun. I mean it it. It was just dumb when or you are mining. Your life for content. That was called this added, like cunt, tent, bessie, still gotta hearing problem. A tent No! No! I now Gallagher so

I I wrote about things that were happening, but because it was such a commenter heavy. environment, you told kind of constantly I would not only like hey I take does. Does she have a lazy eye on them or you know she she's had so much botox that you know I mean just things about your appearance, which is one thing, but then also just do long like five hundred word ruminations on why you would never find happiness because you're, this type of person and you're saying these were the comments here as a member of a mean you're, not really lovely by it. It is it that's a difficult thing.

I have coming in and have be have part of your job that you're supposed to interact cause. How do you interact with that and so I I would say I do not recommend that model for anyone doing. That type of writing. Or that no, no, I think I have a writing is ok to a certain extent. By me I wrote a piece for new york magazine. That was commission, and where they wanted me to reflect on the first person, industrial, complex, meaning the game. Now you now see big newspapers with headlines that are you know quote. I slept with donald trump or whatever yeah it would never. And that headline years ago it's that first person writing that has changed it because respond to it, and so

peace IRA unclear whether it's a good or a bad thing really yeah I don't know I mean I think that sometimes it can be a good thing. I think that sometimes it's I mean I just I honestly all of the sexual life of politicians that something that has now really been my jam- he amazing is how many of them are utterly. Walkable yeah. I mean it's like when I look at like some of these dudes yeah, who is fucking that guy ryan I never meant to be part of the problem. I remember when I was when I was dating the guy. That wrote about it in the new york post dating column. I did for two years and I call them super preppy here and I remember one time I saw his bank account statement and I im a blow job. I think it was like a best blow job I had given in my life up until now weighing it because I was just so. I had never been around people that much money.

dumb so I mean which is you know disgusting on my part to say I'm not I'm proud of it, but I'm clearly not a gold digger, because I didn't exactly that's! No! It's not that I didn't it's not that I didn't succeed. I mean I've dated may I have other wealthy guy, where all I had to do was just pretend that they were remotely interesting and I could a lock that shit down here. But I mean that's, I think, that's a soul there. although a blow job did, it was a reactionary, turned on by the amount or yeah. Sure I definitely yeah. and that way I because it then that I can have stopped b in that way is because it just makes you feel morally bankrupt, get getting getting turned on by like a bank statement is the same thing as getting.

The turned on by ah ecstasy cause you're just rolling rolling on drugs. You know I mean it's a similar kind of a disk disconnect from like your true self. So after like what tell me about the sort of the catharsis the the den you more, the chains, the bottom, what happen while I mean I got. I got sober beak as I just had one bad experience too many, and I there's no topper There is no well I mean I. I met a guy who I had had eight days of sobriety and I went to a going away party for I someone who is leaving page sexier and. and I you know, I think I had that sobriety glow and

cute young man approached me and was talking me up, and I thought I was so cool, I'm even meeting like cool guys and surrender eight days and then he say yeah exactly you're and- He only world he said, I've never met a girl who was cool enough to go to one I've. I've heard that there are these sex club parties, and I ve never met a girl who was cool enough to go away, and I just kind of realized. It was like the switch that it was just all because he immediately laser vision. Point me out or saw me, as you know, the girl that you could die take to a sex club party. Evil said, but you know give me a drink, so I'm not going to go to a fucking orgy sober,

and he said you know, there's actually one tonight, and I said you know alright, you little shit, but you know get me a drink, so I'm not going to go to a fucking orgy sober and and then I e mailed, every one who I talk to about sorority initially sang. I think it's great, they people do it, but I just I just have the legendary nights that are just these epic expire, for me because so I just you know, I don't think that's for. for me because this I mean who has this happened? The rise- I know this moment and then I Also thought that guy genuinely liked me, which is so mental demented mental bright, and

Yeah I mean I was I was I was the best you know I mean I was like a small crab. I ended up yeah I mean I was I was I was the best, you know I mean I was like gum, a small crowd. You know gathered because I just immediately started in oh games forever, you know hey, why don't you go down on that girl and then you know you're the the the counselor the camp counselor, the? I think I say this that I said drunkenly to that cab driver on the way to meet Jonathan ames. been like me. I I think I say this that I suggest drunkenly today cab driver on the way to meet Jonathan ames. I I've it's been like ultimate slumber party girl, where it's just like. Let's play truth or dare let's play I never. Let's do. Let's make the you know, most of this moment, fear and

I, and so I started that game I have a dare or dare I guess it was then I was dared to go down on the girl and did it it's the right way where you are, you know like in your ass up in the air so that it looks as much like a porn scene. you possible, you brought me saying and then the best girl dared there, You know and the enemy way. So though there is like a coke dealer whose the whole thing and he's like you know, com Jeanne, the guy who who who brought me saying that you got the best girl right there. You now and died No one was bang any coke and he said I decided to give you a line because it is one burned in my brain of year, doing coke off that girl's, big ass teddy's. So did that

and and went back to. The guy's place fell. Are his hore got a huge bruise, my knee and then when he was fucking me. He You are a horror to, and you know that dirty talk is fine when it's done. Where, but there is in a sense of it being an honest western sinister yeah yeah, where it where it were where it isn't lag. Where it isn't like me- you are just a worthless, disposable, fuckin set of holes. and he had been so kind of, like you know, just charming and how funny I was and all these things, and so I hooked. With them another guy and it was doing you know.

can and getting fucked up, and I was like about to have sex with him, and I just like I don't I don't want Do you know I'm just doing this to ballade out the fact that I feel so dumb that other guy hasn't called me and the six party go the sex, sexual heart of darkness journey together. I know in my mind, because he was like he was again. We can go on like us, sexual heart of darkness, journey together. And I was just like- were a yeah less. so I reached out to again the same people who were a little less indulgent this time cause. Given them now my big speech about why sobriety wasn't for me and One of them said you know Mandy, you can keep calling me up every three weeks or you can change your life, and I For some reason that just really landed- and I,

I realise that I had always thought That it was you go out and then, depending upon the signs from the universe, you act a sofa guys cute enough. If he's funny enough, If he is offering you a very unique opportunity, like a sex club, so you don't normally. You know that that ok, all signs point to this is that it You have to do this, my path, dumb and so instead guy does. I went to meetings on my own and then like twenty two days sobriety I heard from that date again and maybe go to another party, and I went with him and I, right. When I arrived, I was brought an alcoholic drink that I didn t know,

her and then on the way to the club. They were skirting vodka into people's mao's and I declined inside the club. There were also doing that. I declined he brought me a drink, I declined and then the fifth time was after the party and, of course nothing happened. This time of the party I just was like interviewing people and being like, and what do you do to the you know, woman getting like fucked in the ass by another guy and she's? Like I'm a corporate lawyer, and I just decompress saying after and I ordered the pellegrino and I was brought a champagne. I just suddenly my my you know mental lies started kicking in that this was a sign and really cared about me. remembered, like I felt in my purse, the little for our coin You know that people had passed round and aid tides and met

all these people actually really cared about me and that this guy I was with like didn't care. If I lived or died, you know- and I that for me was very cruel a moment, and I didn't have the drink like I. You know I decided I didn't have to just be. You know a passive participant where life was happening to me. I could actually make choices that I was going to decide That said to the big moment, it's a really big moment in its and it's a weird thing that you know it took me until thirty: six to have because I I've always been someone who I mean I got gotta, I got a paper route when I was like twelve years old, this guy showed up at the house and just said yeah, your daughter applied for a job, and my parents were,

you know like I've always had it in certain respects, but I think that when it came to something drugs and alcohol has. I was told so off. And I mean I remember one time talking about sobriety to a guy who worked in in newspapers and he said: there's nothing so unattractive as a woman who can't hold her liquor, and I just things like that. I took as being like absolutes that this was off the table that I couldn't be, that an fun drag that couldn't hang here. You are an alcoholic yeah, you know, I mean yeah and you know learning that it your way whether you're drug addict or alcoholic I mean I mean I was, I think, thirty five forty. I was forty thirty five, thirty six! I I mean you know what are you going to do ramp? You know you're, just lucky that you had that moment.

yeah it's not an age thing, it's gotten, you know, and you know that it's it's got no bearing it it no matter what you do with the rest of your life or, however, you know you define yourself yeah that fucking thing you know, it opened up the whole all this other shit yeah, my everything started getting so much better even though just all of these everything started, I mean together, even though I was you know still fairly like rotten on the side, I didn't do any of the work and I just then tried to create new. Like addictions. And and dramas and so forth, but I yeah it's like you have with that incremental epiphany type, is just weird that a lot of stuff sort of falls away. You know you're it's easier to beyond yourself,

type in also ikea issues, weird that a lot of stuff sort of falls away in a year, it's easier to beyond yourself. When you sober, like you know, when you Acting out of you do another shit. What It is when you can accept. Have that and as long as you're, not drinking? That's the tricky thing about yea that that when you have that sort of type of disposition, looking for other shit to you, know Jack you up, like you know, I was when I got sober. I left my wife and went check that that got me sober and a mariner ran is a fucking disaster. It was just a fucking disaster because I didn't exist. I'd put it all on her. It's just the shit, that's happened, sober is crazy. Yeah! You, you have to be. I think, okay with whoever you're. If, if you, if you

a partner. I think that you're not gonna be a good partner if you're, not ok, on your own yeah and if you, if you are used- and I think that's how I used to look for partners was like this person will save me. This person give me an identity. This person will consciously or just you back on it and oh yeah. I I look back. I mean I, never I never I never. I never realized that that was what was going on when people tell me where, like. If I talk about a relationship, people say this is what you are doing. They're still part of me. It's like! No! No! No! No! I don't think so I get when I drink was so rough to listen to, but it was also so eye opening there was. There was a tape from college where my roommate was asking me: are you okay? when I drank, was so rough to listen to, but it was So so I open it there, but there was a tape from college where my room

it was asking me, are you ok, Mandy and I I just said: I'm fucking great and is it so it's so awkward, and I now when I have drunk people- I just I it's like. I never tell them the things that they you know dead or sad, but I wanted to speak like record yourself. Some time cause that's a gift you can give yourself, I'm not saying you're anything but just its unsustainable, It is at its fairly unsustainable, I would say, but I also you know a thing that I like to say is that you know drugs are really fun and that those nights can also be than that I sometimes when you tried to just you know it as being, though

it's like that work, everything you can accept fast and not close the door and it's like right. You know, I don't have I don't I don't Great exactly where you get quick, it's that this recovery thing you can accept fast enough, closed doors. As I cry I you know, I don't have Adam red feel like I have too many regrets air, that's good. I may I did some ship, but I don't like it was. I ve never been that fucking out there. I think there are the regrets that I have our when I have

I said out of anger and I have and just been on a nasty just castrating fuckin bitch to people, because I I just it really makes me sad that, knowing like that that I do to myself, like that, I put that out on other people, because you can't ever really take that you know back except by being honest about it here, but you can definitely fuck some yeah. You can people, and they can never never forgive you sometimes aol, yeah yeah. Definitely yeah I've reached out to people to make amends and they're like. No, you don't get it. yeah yeah. It's like that's great. I respect that have a good life at home, now thawed

I just do it again. I just think yeah, that's the thing right when they'll be great. If I just was just like and by the way you have the worst breath and you fuckin are a no talent, yeah right. No, I just but I mean I have to like. I have to take out my anger somewhere, you with it. I mean, I think this, trying to be funny and just like talking to mentioned, then when I mentioned before that you know I but doesn't help yeah in an and actually like the reason when I mentioned before that you know I went from being. You know just like chubby wife too, then being kind of like a hot

piece of craigslist ass, like when I got the reason that I got divorced and the reason that I started the blog. Also besides doing that class. The other thing I was and am sure many people have said this this thing to you, but I started doing good morning pages you started doing as in two thousand for and that I lost sixty pounds. I play, and I had such a better day sir writing, for myself again and dumb. I haven't because I've been so busy writing the book and everything I haven't done them in a while, but I did I'm recently and I had such a better day of editor. I was able to in don't say exactly my side of the story and why I was completely right,

wait. You know, and I thought that was a funny thing in writing. The book was my editor. I would turn in the occasional section that would just be kind of like you know, should have been I like Mandy, settle some scores, you now yeah it was just like really. She was like yeah, you don't really need, interest, you let that go is not essential to the store, the only one who cares about this app and you and has been, are getting on good yeah, very much so nice talking, the great tat can t it. As for having me. Can I tell people where to give the book? Is that okay, of course, I'll? Do it too at the top? Okay yeah? So if you go to unwatchable book dot com, it takes you right to the amazon page on wifi. well but dot com, but now your wife, I know. Isn't that ironic? No, it's! I think. That's the whole book right exactly as

I think I got. I got one more coming at you from out here on the road and I bought her memoir is now available. Ever you get books? I be home soon? I think I got. I got one we're coming out yet from out here on the road and then, after that be there for awhile not going to be beyond the road again for a couple more weeks or you know we'll get to my schedule later. Okay, I have to, former, alas,