« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 960 - Richard E. Grant / Brian Posehn

2018-10-17 | 🔗
Actor Richard E. Grant keeps a daily diary and has done so since he was ten years old. Having immediate access to his past experiences has no doubt helped his performances as a wide variety of characters throughout his career. Richard and Marc talk about his standout roles, working with directors like Scorsese, Coppola, and Altman, and now working side-by-side with Melissa McCarthy in Can You Ever Forgive Me? Also, comedian Brian Posehn stops by to talk about his new memoir and how being a nerd can also be a religion. This episode is sponsored by Squarespace and YouTube Music.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
All right. Let's do this, how are you what the fuckers, what the plot bodies, what the fuck turkey and I don't know- and wine focusing on you how's it goin, what's happening out there, the paper back waiting for the punch is now available in stores, folks or you can go to MARC Maron book dot com and order a copy from wherever you like to order books. Also, the across the divide event. The across great divide event is tomorrow night friday, the nineteenth and I'm going down to the ace hotel m hosting the thing I gotta get. The add together the hosting what kind of fun he's do I want to make. Then I got a all the acts, including bob weir, loose and away ems, John Prine jimmy the vinos musical director. Cajoled me. talked me into
playing a song that I played with him before, but slash is going to be sitting in on that song as well. gus's. Will you before I'm going in I'm going full throttle? I practiced a bit. I know I this problem with my arm and my fingers. My other hand, my picking hand and nail is seems to be add falling off. I can hold a prick. A prick woof not assess that too deeply. I can hold a pic pretty well Pretty well know. I got the strength back in it, so I'm going to go in I'm going to do it boy did. I have a waffling magic waffling confidence wise you all day yesterday, you know when you get that so, sinking feeling your a slight heaviness in the heart. Maybe your stomach feels a little pulled upon. a mild kind of tinge. The depression that just makes you feel like you not good have to do anything yeah a few hours.
And I just leaned into the guitar and unjust. Just oh, I get it out, get it out. Man worked on my stand big job I have that's where it came from I can't just admit I came Anima. I'm a little nervous about this shit. Come up a mortal scared. I gotta play guitar. What's lashing out a house to big event with the sea, my big musical acts, which yell should be fine, but I'm just write off fuck. What am I going to do and then god, I'm going to new york to shoot the joker movie with de niro and joaquin with that scene, and am I I got: that's you, but I'm excited about it, but I have to assume that somewhere under the excitement and the the actual feeling of groundedness around this stuff, there exists the flowing wellspring of fear and insecurity that I can. underground it's a subterranean. Well put some
concrete over the hole that he used to go through into my being but every once in a while yeah it'd, just the there be a little fisher there'll be a fisher, and then it starts seeping out they just like this. The the fluid you be can't. Do this you're not going to pull it off, don't pretend like you're dad you can handle this. You you suck just just kind of losing out of this figure I'm excited is what I'm trying to say. I can't to do this stuff. I have ahead of me. You know are tough in the world. My world is ok. I got some opportunities looking forward to it. It's gonna be fun right. I don't know man, it's like you know, he's going to be going to pull it off or, like I don't know, god damn it. Don't talk to me like that Today, on the show I talked to character actor. Richard e grant.
You know him from a lot of things famously, wit nail and I and in those were, the early movies how to get ahead in advertising. But he was in you know: Bram stoker's, dracula. He was he's been, you know, he's the player. He's been a lot of stuff he sure did talk about this movie. Can you ever forgive me with Melissa Mccarthy, which I thought was very good melissa a serious role. It's based on a true story about forgery in desperation and I enjoyed it, but I was fastened to talk to richard e grant, because he's one of these guys that he's all intense slightly morally dubious in movies. In his Quite a presidency, I didn't know what I mean. I didn't know what kind of person he was seen it His tunnel in here like Richard Burton after a bend No quite the opposite. Great talk to enjoy talking to him. Brian pesetas is
at here as well. For our last, I believe our last shorty, as I call him Brian, saying, doesn't know it, but he's the last of the short form interviews that we do occasionally here. What I tell you about brian posting I've known him since he was a youngster. It seems we started out sort of together years ago. I remember money started his at this memoir coming out forever, nerdy my dorky dreams and staying metal that to come next week actually October twenty. You can pre it right now and we had this. Over the summer when we still doing the shorter interviews and we held it until we were closer to the book coming out. and it was fun, and it was it good idea, brains and evolving guy I've known him a long time, so it of a great little reconnect so is me and brian posts
that you feel and show your your. Your wife told you to get rid of all the things on the phone. Well, yeah It was driving me crazy and effect. Your life equally found the I wake up, angrier and sad, and that would be the first thing I'd go to and then to reinforce it ever I read yeah would set me often that direction, but with it was a positive thing that I would like to lay all my inner. That's good, and now he s the ease our area gone now and now it has nothing right and then she had mad and write. Like put, I started off the election, like on that, just not believing that it was even happening, my shirt night, that it happened once it started to turn around their him go the other way. I went to bed, I went to bed around ten o clock right and I was just pissed off and right. Poor kid could sense. My
did she ear cause. I can't really hide things how old man and he? U seven there and like he- drew a picture, a tramp whom, like the bird sitting on on the house. Man like to try to make me happy. I was already over for me. I like. I can't believe this is I'm going to go right and then the last two years have just the arab reno, in the book, but then- and I talk about at the end of the book out- It was the right while I was that pissed off that worried and that sad and in just going highs and lows, ryan writing about you know my life What the highs on these things, while I'm am self medicating with whiskey and weed and yuna you do it you're back. Reed whiskey, Yeah yeah works,
Take me to take the edge off on rate. Is everything was followed, a pardon and you had to go back into the child, a budget that was there was there. The book is called the. What forever nerdy living my dorky dreams and staying metal. Like I thought that when I write I hate it primarily like, when the last book I did on my own the real shore and in its time consuming and hangs over you any like eu. Even if I'm writing about myself, it's sort of like albert, I still have to write it There are those moments where you go on. These runs where there's a sense of discovery and you framed I will send you see things in a way that you didn't see him before right. Did you have that is there a couple of things? There are a couple of things of stuff for it and I leave talk about it in the book where I'm like. Oh, my mom was a virgin when she met my dad. That's weird,
I kind of put things together. I'd never thought you know like as a grown up yeah right, yeah yeah cause they're, like you there's still so much of your mind is because of your It is locked in child, my right and he refused to see that kind of going through the whole thing and I'm like, oh, I don't think she yeah and then and then the mom's boyfriend after that- and I was like oh She'S- really only had these three guy. What stop thinking about that? it had reality. Real was one of the things you seeing your mom too much as a person and I was also I felt bad for her because I was cause. I don't have a dad so pretty much everything in the book kind of blamed on her right She moved down here during she moved down here last november, so I was finishing this up and
I am forced to be around, or already I am when I'm writing about are right and I felt like guilty, but like there's so much of that she had already in the book react. Did you put that in their that you're feeling that did she got we already in that? No no! I barely talk about that action. Well. What did you do made it harder because I'd see her right and I'd just written about something about how pissed off I was about this shitty thing. She said thirty years ago, right ever they are still stuck in my brain like what oh, just you know, stuff about the dad kind of you. I would. I want would say to her or when I was a teen when I thought. Maybe the situation would have been better if my dad lived she'd, say stuff like he wasn't that into the idea of you. When you were born. He wasn't ro Brian and fight that great of a dude and just like she would just throw him under the bus, and it just made me hate
two weirdo in her twisted minds, use prior trying to help this sort of, like you know the the guy I'll die and he died of blood, a rare blood disease ryan. They add negligence at the hospital in my mom. Didn't do anything about it. What did you but did he know years? Did you ever resolve this stuff you're supposed to let he process this stuff? I didn't think we were going to get this deep. This quick but anyway, forgot here talking to the it, but that we are just on europe you ve heard of minors in sweden. This view where's yoni, my lady with the cigar. We can achieve our poem mom when nobody like, but where you did, you find what is a memoir in nigeria squerryes with that, and I also have explained with alienating aiding apparent, because what I wrote- oh she's, going to flip yeah bet
do I turn it around, because we in our relationship is mostly positive now so yeah I and I she was super supportive of comedy yeah and that's the one thing, and I I make a big point of that in the book of going look the heist years were rough right, but once I found this thing that I loved she realized that you know even though she didn't think it was our some rhyme shooting laugh at what I was doing. But I see that a unified and I love it and saw that I had some sort of skill with it and also that you're, probably out among people right, has not down the basement with a bunch of foreigners the game right right right like he seems to be out. World yes, and that must have been the thank god for sure. So the say go all the way back. You know you do the whole thing. I wasn't going to,
I was gonna write when I started an why'd you here. I will you or did you it was your idea. Did somebody say likewise want you read a book I'd had I had written some blurbs for other as some friends of ours I didn't do it wasn't stand hope, but it was the same attitude that Eric was stand. Hope behind I'd done, blurb for rex browns book he at the base player for panther, and then I'd done, one fur one of Scott Ian's anna nice guy oh that editor said a man. If you have a book in you, we love to hear it because he liked what I had written just in the blurbs I'll write. You clear We can write you gotta breakthrough, blurb, yad and kind of year, and then, instead of going through my agency in and having them shop it. When I came up with the concept I just went to this guy, I said: look you know you, madeleine comedy. I- and this is you know, that's me, that's me so
You want to hear it, he loved it and then we just went through dicaprio and ready. Instead of you know my age and got involved. Then we are one sided sold it on my own right, that's great, we added, so they re kind of the way I wanted to do that in mind. I don't mind because I didn't want to go through the other process of them. Trying to take me around all these bearing wars and neck wilder wooden bench right in my head, everybody was gonna, go mad were good. Hear me, who I do that yeah that kick in the night is rather go to somebody who was into it was into it and they just came in and negotiate yeah yeah and then take their ten we're here we're so you gotta, have done great work, will put the paper together, which is fine, be another thing. What I wanted. I am not criticising and that there is a structure because we don't know how to handle my no. So
originally started is kind of I was just goes on, whereas is no. I was gonna. Do essays right up my life. I thought I d. Do I thought then, and then I just one: started writing about the first ten years cause I talk about venus, but I also do- and I've talked about it in my ad till I think you know you know you're not born in earth, where I find it a you might be borne with. Like oh said, he right woods later into it yeah. But to me you know, started at ten years old, but then I talk about those first ten years and I talk about you know that the darkness sure the death and that kind and then, and what what was your original obsession- that to start did start to finding a nerve. I say in the book is jaws and
and then the first beer. After that was star, wars writes that, like that was it jaws was paled by how how massively I got into star wars and how obsessed I got and then kiss was right. Around the same time was kissing star wars when I first as a pretty good trifecta jaws to start you know and then boom get the machine and all art in seventy six. Seventy seven within like two years in I and you're, able to track it too. If you're handling grief in the sadness and the Isolation of the dad thing and being awkward in general, it's almost like a nerd ism, it is almost like he can be like a religion yeah, guys, like you know, you find these things that fine, you enter our massive right. You can sort of turn your life over to them. Well, even say yeah say in the book that to me nerdy, this is just about obsession and even think religion. Is there just Jesus nerds, nigh hammer. their cars playing is
no more dangerous in general, the cultural implications of christian causeway could end the world or hey. I think that's true. I I've I thought that about you ritualistic religion is like an orthodox jews. You swarms, catholics that you know there's that the idea of all these arcane rituals is is o c d. It's an organized method to sort of keep you connected to this thing. And you get and you have to do it right and it's funny I and talk about? I was christian until I kind of around it's not like. I left Chris, and do you now, I'm into star wars and steady ass, but kind of happened around the same time? Will you be able to get got more into metal, and I got you know,
people were shitting on kiss and stuff like I was like kisses, not knights in Satan's service, it's a yeah right all right, oh and isolated, italian, dude and another guy. Whatever really is in clown makeup yeah, I know, but I think that's true because like for her kids certainly annoying, and I think it happens now too, with the with the with gaming and stuff. It's like it's. President. It's accessible! It's engaged and it's it's now. You know what I mean: it's not like some sort of hypothetical. It's like see, luke skywalk, but you know right right, yeah, so and so it's it started and then and then, like you, kind of moved through the life yeah in comedy finding you know it's about all that. front obsessions I I'd tell you mean I'm really. I do I wasn't at first and I talk about that so in junior high. I heard
it and I was like out this seems like something I would love. There was already a kid that I hated at some it's. He was like the christians bully which is so weird like he would have stuck with me. He kind of was he was the one guy that was like that. I felt like at christian camp and at sunday school and a church group and all those places I felt pretty safe yeah, except for this one dude yeah and and then I showed up at d and d, and he sees me, I walk into the ram in its D n d club in seventh grade it here and I'm like. Oh, this is going to be my place. I open the door, he sees me and goes posts saying what do you do in here and I'm like even be into this, and I just went to the library- and I talk about that in the book where I worked in the library, junior, high and high school, and that guy is now a congressman. Is a facebook friend and I try to always he he asked
So you guys already changed his name in the book. Gatto there's a lot of that yeah yeah! You have to yeah. In trouble, and he can I write about it right, but so that goes the bane of your existence for well at church, get away yeah sunday school? There was plenty of dick set high school and junior high the added. Yet it is not like what is the thrust of the story. Is that you know how you you know we're isolated because of thing we're sort of out of your control you know, and you had to sort of a koi with the other freaks right and then Like you know at some point you know because there was a shift in culture. You were able to own it. Yet will I talked about that death I mean you can now I'm not bitter about it. Either. There's cause there's a ton of bitter nerds that are like hey, I didn't have the the there were hot girls wearing the I hurt nerds shirt and a right, but it is what it is and I had worked for me, I'm not mad about the girls that didn't fuck me still.
Europe is not about your mom. You go to the soil. Give me unflappable, it's her fault, that one is all her. He bought the air, so I but I remember I can we talked about this. The first time we talked there was. I remember this shift like it's weird, because it when I see you guys do it now. I think they're they're kind of lay down when I mention anyone's name, but I remember, like you sure, from the long hair metal, dude to a guy. Wearing glasses. You know with the good hair, and beard think like it was a very distinct shift right. Right. You know what I mean like it's like doing that, but it wasn't like. I went, I'm going to be this guy. That's like the hair was the girlfriend at the time and her friend. What do you? What do you call it when people getting up on intervention daily? They showed up ass, your cutting your hair today, hen we're taking you to a different clothing store in reality,
this shit around, because all you are or t shirt, yeah, sometimes pretty much here yet Like I still worked at escape workshop, which was my last day jot world record store, was my right age, ryan last to data drier, Yonah, skateboards and records but it was right around like the like the mr showtime, Where are you know, you're sort of my god? You go get Brien's old. We I was also like David cross, looks good with a bald head and I should just do what he's doing. I think maybe I co opt in beard from Lou ear yeah. Maybe I feel like there are other guys that were due and lead the bald head beard hearing a year, or least because I experience experimental would go tv. I had I used to have the pearl jammed thing for
back when I knew you yeah when I had long hair, but then I had just the YAP just the flavor sabre, no, my staff and I got nothing just the flavor safer and I grew at along at one layer, laws, stone, gasser, ba right, yeah, you have that we have to be defined by something, but then talk. but nerdiness came from Also me wanting to be less brick, oh there are brick, not brick road by brick, wall yeah, which is what I had kind of been lumped in like I was finding a he and the alternative scene in l, a where I would show up at some of those and they got no. You know your your private eye, your mainstream come here. There I want name some people, but there's people that ran some of those rooms that we're like not now neely yeah patent fits the saturday fits, but you
it fit, but we all started so then I me you blame. We all started in. We most of the people that have us were a brick wall comic. We found that you know that was because that was all there was and Patton had a suit in his first. You know oh yeah, his first eight by ten in a we did all those that always shot her. But you know what I mean like: we did, those that we had business cards and eight by tanzania, because we are all the comics in the eighties did it, because we came in a little earlier We were all like, probably be of middles or headliners by the time all comedy started right, but been writing for a long time. I remember because, like I was a bitter content, then you know, as when I saw mister, show Michael to fuck. You know really all these guys just get a tv show and you're on there and my says on their how this happening. I got that gig. I think, because bob love that I didn't give a fuck.
Bob and I met one time. I we he knew who I was, and I knew he who he was through David. I knew David first cross was coming up to san Francisco a lot year before I moved down here, and so when I moved down here, they'd already done and stiller. How do I do now yet, and so they were like looking for the next thing and they were starting to write sketches together. He, our friends and then I met at that old virgin. Magus store me. And I was wearing a a sub pop jacket that said loser on it and I just moved here. I was with Dave rath and was workin inanity ever that hand. I see odin kirk and own currencies me and I shall Ben, like hey man. How are you doing he's like he comes up to me? Yours? grandpa saying right now I go yeah and I'm just kind of a dick and then he walked away from that going across like hey. Is there something wrong with that? Guy like he's funny enough, I think bob was like there
kind of the same guy cause. We can't really talk to people or want to write up. It is pretty much and you know they ve. They said hey. You want to write some sketches for this thing and now is and they had already put me in sketches by that price because I fit like a tie. They add like a grunge thing. They wanted yeah You know that I already had the sub pop thing and they had to put a hat on me and there we go, but I mean part of the book is sort of like you know, hanging onto the parts of that that you you still love and define you right and and and yet still you know you don't eat, you don't have a choice right here, like you, you know like, even if you wanted to to shift their just there is no way that you could let go right. My therapist seems to think that I could let go of that but then you have to as a grown person you make these decisions were you I get why, I try and get. No
Well, that was in one I've made. I made money off being the nerd or being picked on guy, so you know, but there was a point ten years ago and there be where my their preside. You should let go of that you're, not that guy anymore and unlike their kind. Making money doing it, but but do you think you are not that guy anymore, I guess happy while I'm no, I'm not cause, I'm also, you know, I'm a I'm a little kids favor first in the world right on a maniac. So there are. There are things where this nine year old thinks I'm the coolest guy ever in the fire ass he I ever, and so there is confidence that comes with that and in another. So that's it in our having fans and sure and knowing that you know I did connect with some people, but how does that evolve though? I it makes you feel a little better about. You know sure where you're functioning alt right san, diego and you. You know what your your your limitations and what your talents are, but I mean, but you know in in writing the book
Do you find that, like he? Okay, so you don't have to replayed anymore, but you're still sitting round listening the metal, random sure you're, like I don't know what you're your game in take is or what you're telling your kids good and bad. But I imagine a lot of that. Stuff is the same stuff. What I'm turning him onto yeah yeah, I mean just sorta, like you know in in in in in terms of you know how you guys interact, yes, yeah yeah, but I'm I I don't have anything to go off of with the dad thing, so I just tried to be cool and yes tried to be there for him and and also you know, be his friend and yeah. When I get to the phase, you know we're, not is yet where I'm going to have to be more stern or I know cuz he's he's a good little guy, now he's nine yeah, and what are you waiting for in a very tiny year? The turn I like? blind, dad you're a dick, It's going to be the one like trump and sublime, either way
I think they, like you, get a good chance of might not happen. Anyway. You give a fuck about some wine. I didn't I'm innocent ordain right and it may be somebody else, but that's the way the rebel rye house. So what was the big take away? The book, like you know, when you were done, writing it outside of like that's a fuckin relief. You know what did anything did anything sort like come together for you? Why think? There's couple of things in there that you had asked me on the port, but in what we are talking about the if the books gonna be out before the end of the world, and I know it reaching some nerd. I think I think some of the things that eight say about bullying And- and I and my situation with that and and and then also kind of embracing the nervousness beer my ring. True free, I call and it does have big impact yeah. You know I can that
wait you're ultimately like that was sorted. I hope yeah yeah, I yeah. I mean I also wanted it to be funny and and have done things that people can. You know picture coming, I am going to do in audio book to sell yet, but I felt like glass, I was ready and I was I got. This definitely feels I could see my voice and they are kept getting that back from the editor I was. The main thing was like have a beer Will have it be funny yeah have it be in my voice and then an honest, yeah yeah, and I think that's great because, like that, that's the weird thing, with the way this stuff works, even like the podcast and stuff is yeah. There's a lot of people there that are isolated, that don't talk to people much shit, don't like that. Have similar issues that we do and when they just like, if they can just hear someone else talking about it, it's a it makes so much did prince to know that you're not fucking alone in the world right right right? I never really understood it. You know cause the hardest part of me just kind of likes being alone in the world. You know right well, and there was a point.
People go hey if you can get a pretty girl than I can and I was like fuck you and then I'm like. Oh wait. No, no yeah, you're right! That is cool. Should I prove to you that The report also lucky. Why wishes I to work with Mannix buddy is great for having me hey, it's great, seeing you it's always great, seeing the series with the he's the real deal, folks Brian posts, saying the memoir forever nerdy my dorky dreams and staying metal comes out next week october, twenty third, it'll be funny, and those of you who relate to that stuff. It's about You can pre right now. oh, I remember what I wanted to tell you about. I had a a a humbling experience, I decided to go to a party I was invited to. I didn't really know why was invited. It was a charity event kind of the air was at home it was an invite from Kathleen Hanna
and Adam horovitz that you, Kathleen Hanna from bikini. Kill and adam from the beastie boys. I I have not I've never met either of them, but I figured while they must dare. I just want to meet me. They must want to have me over. They must have that's exciting because I'd like to talk to both of them and they would be fun to meet them in there and I'm going. that to my reputation, proceeds me in so was invented their home for an organization called the peace sisters, peace. sisters, dot, org, it's about raising money, to pay for the education of girls in Togo and africa by so I made a donation through the vita, not united. I was pretty sure I'd people I knew their bows thrilled that They knew who I was and that they're having me their house so at there and we walk in and young kathleen come. the door and tonight
say. Hi, mark, marron and didn't didn't seem to register that much, and I said you know I just talked to joan jett. She had nice things to say about you and she's. Like oh yeah, you talked to joan m like the idea. my pod cast his eyes. Oh, you have a pike ass, unlike yeah yeah. I do she goes, I'm just I'm just starting to get into podcasts being part of the event, was a making t shirts of people having Stu t shirts to sell with all the proceeds going to the charity. So there's a small t, shirt shop in the. In the in the in the house there and she was wearing a hurry, condom polo shirt, which is a an esoteric shirt, but you met many of you may know. Harry's comic and I saw a w kamau bell shirt and I'm like oh, I know hurry and the icy kamau. I know them. Yeah they're, a you know, are comics on comics years ago. You do comedy too, and am I he I do do do comedy and have podcast. And then I realized it does. She didn't know me at all
no idea who I was or what I did and now you know I mean after a certain point in this game. Yo you think you reach a certain level, certainly with a certain type of since that the aid you be known nope, and Adam Horwitz, the same thing I did not does not really seem to know who I was so Michael I might their house white, or how did this happen by? Fred Armisen there and Kerry brown scene and Jackie tone was air, and I saw some of the guys from esa now Paul Ross. I saw a lot of people. I knew and Sarah, the painter saw a lot of painters that she knew. There was a nice event and I learned about this cause and was very moving. The woman who it was there and Kathleen is involved in. It there. There was sort of that. Tell you all the way through that kind of weird kind of like nag of like. Why? Who I vital these people don't even know me there.
and I ran into the publicist who handles? Are? They might be giants? And apparently she she recommend. did that I come and I am glad that I had that moment because I would have known why and I do admit that I was a little little humbled by the whole thing by the Is that wrong and if you were invited to a party and anymore ensure you never met the people there have having the party, but you you're, invited and then there and they didn't know you. Wouldn't she be like that kind of well, it did alright it was nice to meet everybody in, and hopefully I get to talk to the beastie boys, maybe kathleen at some why? But right now talk about richard e grant. Now. You know this guy is not ringing a bell. You know him if you seeing the the sort of the classics, wit nail and I are, or how to get ahead in advertising.
He's been in. You know, he's spending a lot of stuff, L, a story, the player, Bram stoker's, dracula age of innocence. He was in oh gosford park. That was a big movie whose great nat, What are you just one of those guys you see around and you like That guy is that guy apparently he was in love into which I didn't see and easing the upcoming star wars. For what I understand, that's what he told but anyways new film can you ever forgive me with melissa Mccarthy. It opens in select theaters tomorrow october nineteenth and it's good. It's good just me talking to richard e grant old houses are nice, you have an old house, eighteen, seventy were you in london. It's got a lot more older stuff
very excited here. When some things lasted one hundred years exactly there you can live in a place. That is four five. Six hundred years old, I dunno I dunno. We can't even make it through two hundred years in this country. Why? I don't know It's going downhill richard things in england exactly the same units should show wherever you go and I was reading roman diaries from ancient rome, oh good and I applaud his and all those guys they were just saying it sooner. It's the end of the world well everything's gone down the pan? So I think it's just it's. The nature of stuff do not speak to people who lived through this world war may say compared to what they went through right is we're living honey yeah. I I economy right. I have I've talked to a few people talk to you from from the uk. You know the older guys callanan, impetuous, steward and people there like the out eat you. I remember bombs yeah. You know that
do they were. We are in tunnels exactly and the family I don't have the now. You think. Well, that's an improvement. I guess so it's it's this. It's the very proficient and a and a focused psychological warfare. That said that said damning right now, yeah just turn on any device, and now you're gonna just shatter your brains, ability to function properly. Absolutely do you stay away from him, I plunge into every single possible thing that I can hide information overload? Are you all the time visited the other with you do this? But if you wiki idiot somebody. You google him beforehand on the course. You think you know everything and then, of course you meet the person face to face and all that stuff just the window. You go as a human being that I'm talking to you, look them in the eye. You subway, the tube or whatever it's what what of the trains the atom. It is and the silhouette of to be everybody- is the head is even a crossing pedestrian crossing oh yeah, you to the to the the yeah getting
by car. That's my alpha, my biggest fear of being of walking down the sidewalk or crossing the street a sum ass. I was going to be looking at his phone like I do, but I like these grumpy old gushing to ward off and stuff, I not re, read: write ran right, but by the way about what were also old guys into adapted. You know my dad, I don't think he's ever listened to. What am I pod cask, as he kindly can't make the jump to your pusher arrow on his screen, and how does that make you feel wide. So we have covered it fairly thoroughly. Very, not good! No, no! I you know it's. It is what it is. He is what he is in europe. Whatever damage you did, I ve transcended some of it right now. Do! Ah yes, but you know what you've done is remarkable, that you're here in your garage, yes and you've done it. So for the world to you, I have it was a hit. It was sort of a bit of cosmic timing that finally worked out and just be yeah yeah yeah
yeah having some sort of talent for him. To do that. I didn't know it was all born out of desperation richard. It was not as everything is. Isn't it yeah for sure, but the google thing or the wikipedia thing you say is true cause I do I do that often with work I always do find there's a person over there. Like I see you, as a person might adoptions about you after doing a bit of research, I don't like to do too much, but a lot of times two things. Wikipedia can be way wrong like way right there, is made up people and it has made a paste, and I learned early on that to make a you know like I started if I start leading a guest into sort of like so your dad was in the army huts waiting there right now like he was It also, the human being is because I assumed like having watched, work for years that
and that you would come tumbling in here like richard burden, now you're up all night with a cigarette, just reeking of alcohol heightened and so that I can fulfill this fantasy velvet. But I dunno. Why would think that? But you know I mean some of the characters are a little gnarly yeah, but you're very you're clean your showered, you're allergic alcohol. All of that helps that must have been a rough thing to find out. Were you told that or was it a an experience that I couldn't keep anything down and when I was sixteen, I went to the doctor and said you know. I am socially embarrassed because I accounts you know I can't hold ho in a macho culture that I grew up in in this tiny country, the smallest country in the in the southern hemisphere, swaziland? That was you've seen it I'll drop. You a drink here and he's a blood test, and he said to me that you have asian blood, and I said that I know of why you ask not he said, because you have no enzyme to process alcohol whatsoever. You can never ever drink, it's completely toxic to you, so so you'll
although he avoided the alcoholism trap. He said older, ginger, ale and people leave you alone and I've done that have since yeah the no smoking either. No, really I tried one nineteen, seventy, oh my god, you're like completely, not the guy I seen a movie, they like dope, no good, so you can smoke moved out. That's nice in swaziland, like I had to research that I had to I had to because I was sort of like what am I gonna talk to him about the size of glendale. Is it really that small? Yes to what here is you there you were born there. I was born there because my father was that, mrs of education, while it was still an english protectorate under the last else, with the project and then they gained regain their independence in nineteen, sixty eight and weak precario living now, and I would was it because of my fault job, so he still had the job even after the wait. How does that work so he worked for the disease. is there an empire he worked? the empire and then the empire was pulling back.
He works for the british government an often opponents he was kept on as an ordinary advisable, easy fluent in society, so stayed on many died at the age of fifty one. captain air sort of like just stena work were not in power, but given I am thing and take him like you. Let us know with her. Action. so where, where what was the culture like? So how did that define you? Do you have siblings? I do, but I haven't seen his my father's funeral of one hundred years ago and but you haven't seen your siblings, not as your fathers. What it essentially was was a hermetically sealed. more english than english colonial bubble, So as so, you didn't go beyond the fence. Not and was carrier rise by the three bees booze boardman bunking, here banking, I've that words no longer in operation is no guns are old, I am, but why did that was? I did that evolve into shagging.
I suggest jogging honking bonkers doping, stopping wherever you are, he could go yiddish, matey yeah. I think some of the youngsters call it just hanging out now hanging out because we want to hang out here, but alright, you, you weren't, you didn't experience the the tension of apartheid? Was your? Was your father? You know: do you come from dutch people I come from very liberal white caucasian, highly educated people and was, it was a it was. It was nicknamed the switzerland of africa, because mountainous and it was between marxist model beacon the one side and fascist apartheid, south africa, on the other seven they tread this neutral, so all in south african political dissidents were sense for me ass. He said they kids to school in swollen, and so I went to school and it's cool plays with nelson mandela's daughters and stuff. So that gives you did it. I had a very liberal. You know such white middle class education or that. Well, that's a gift tactic,
so yeah set you up for tolerance in the world and hope and idealism. those to the last two or trouble by half it'll be big. Now tat they had a life. Tolerances is something that I think that that is actually one of the interesting things about the possible crumbling of liberal democracy is that was the hinge that a lot of people just couldn't handle that way, necessary for walkie torquay. You have to have tolerance and it's not an It's necessarily you're not born with it. You have to engage it, you have to learn it yes and now Hanna's right and now that the all these shameless tyrants and weirdos they're taking over people like you, mean we'd all have to put up with this shit anymore and they couldn't be happier yeah exactly it's a fucking nightmare. But let's agree back to you: have it so you're in switzerland of africa? Where were you when I was younger when it all went down, I will when Kennedy was shot. I was two months old. I grew up in in new mexico born in new jersey, most of the
coronavirus as second grade through high school new mexico. Now you frank sinatra, metal, streep and bruce willis about what jersey yeah, but I I well there's more there's springsteen, I mean the list goes on jersey, jersey, produced a lot of people. I do feel genetically yeah, but I am not tat. I was more new mexico and then I was in Boston allay new york. I got around chastened, so where do you feel that you belong where's your identity, the where my brain goes. When it seeks comfort here, probably knew chicago? I would think Albuquerque yeah. Why it's: northern new mexico in general, the feel of the air and the now that you know the kind of It's weird that this guy there there you're something about that draw me back. There is not my high school buddies earlier than my parents were so terrific millions of the air How do I use made of it yet so the exact same thing, but when you are like yeah, but do you find that breaking bad has given object
bad or good reputation was that your experience with it can bring money into that city. I think, is good, and if people want to take little tours to the dog house where there were the hot dogs were you know, and then here and there I think I think it seems fine. I think that the tell em the studios that were built out there, and I guess the tax incentives him. Then we will shooting helps economy, I mean, I don't know breaking bad was it's a fictitious story. but I do think that the economy of new mexico has its problems and they do have a. I believe, a method amphetamine issue. What is it landscape? this real homing pigeon instinct in you, I think you yet is beyond your friends your pants. Whatever you just oh yeah, you're drawn back to that one there it is something like if it if the landscape- as I remember new jersey too, but what I remember about it is sort of humidity green tomatoes, like my grandmother's house, but you know, if you're forming in your in high school and there's some sort of you whatever
struggles, you're going through as a conscious person? You know if you find something you know if you find some, reprieve in the environment in new mexico is very beautiful. You know kind of it sits in the back your your head as s like I constantly think about moving back there and it has this increased as you've got into your later. Fifth, second: half of your fifties and a why just hit the middle fifties or just hit fifty five. It's increased since I've had the freedom to make choices about my life you before I earned a living which was you know to up to forty five. years old, that there was a bit of panic. But now I'm sort of like when you be nice to just now you can in a mansion in glendale I guess so I dislike. I don't have a wife, I don't have kids, I don't have much debt, so I'm like what am I saving money for? Why have? Why have you had so many wives, two wives, yeah You did do your homework yeah I just had to yeah, but how many and well that's called a lot because they weren't long lived. While I mean there weren't so long once no flaws, the first one
was something I did out of an attempted to normalizing yeah second one abnormal, why feel. Like you know, when you live the life of an entertainer, an actor. I would assume as well where your security is. You know, do what you have to say. Yes, you know, and also I was a drinker and you know little out of control and I met a woman who was it's familiar to me in in the know, the social structure, you know- and I and I thought, like wow- that that will shape me up but didn't and I fell in love with some other woman, and I got sober and I was I was crazy. and sober and unite elliot yeah, eventually drained her of her life force, and she went away and who is currently reintroducing all. I thought why think I a fairly non dramatic sort of stable, grounded the woman who's. A painter, abstract, paint, Does that mean that you you're addicted to people that created drama, drummer, algae,
Why don't know like? I think that if you do the research at the yeah you're going to you know whether you don't know so immediately. You're going to the the people you're most connected with are going to be what you come from, and I found that yeah, your income from drama the income from insanity, oh yeah, hi, thai drama, abusive alcoholic father drank himself to death, basically unrequited love for my mother, and he tried to shoot me when I was fifteen because he was because I emptied a crate of isps. down the sink. Oh my god and you all that stuff puts it's where they were divorced, they would have. And I didn't realize that he was still in love with her. He told me the deathbed that he'd never stopped loving her, and so in that moment I understood the tragedy of his Oh my god yeah. It's weird that with the finite nature of it, yeah that that No, it's not that long of a run. Anything if you don't make some minor fixes- like what? What about your mom,
Oh she's, eighty seven and final cylinders o really yeah. Is a chipper ye she's, very chipper yeah, because her second husband's, not such chipper, but she is on. You know she has great longevity in jeans and she reads: ramp eight books a week and she's she's on fire stuff. So I'm very impressed by her and I've had a rapprochement with it has been good for my mental health. He I lay things of important is so you are holding on to some darkness. He here additives breakdowns forty two? How would you know I am sixty two? So let's go back for a second senior, your kid? in swaziland. Here you ve got a sibling that you don't talk about or talk to him. Don't know what happened there was used. I think ass. He has issued. Problems, rivalry me as the child and that's the he has in his head that I dislodge and it's an aggressive narrative,
it has? Yes, it has been here so they're just boundaries ensure just boundaries yeah. You finally have to drool yeah yeah yeah for your own safety. That's true! It's it's! painful thing when you have to do with family, they believe have essential rights of you? And you know that don't know is he older? obviously our yeah, it's just it's the same thing. They hang onto a deterrent. Did it like it's like in your ear, said father with the unrequited love like if you I can do something and it feels deep enough yeah, no shaking it exactly so europe, As how will do when they got divorced, I was eleven and I woke up on the backseat of a car and inadvertently saw my mother shagging, my father's best friend, on the front seat, so that that said it got me started diary. Writing is a contest. But you know your bureau, you know it was bad. I knew that I was seeing something I should say so
just out you're, a sweeping is usually get away with that of sleeping yeah. We're shouldn't have too many choices about wishing I know, but it maybe it says something the two to her british nature- that they would be quiet enough, a clump of trees, I feel it stifle the noise to of excitement, but you know discuss this and it's all been out in the open now and it's patina that sort of thing at forty two, but what? If forty four I finally confronted or about it in peaceful way here as a result of help from a psychoanalyst and She said, the three magic words which I'm sure you will know the power of these when she said. Please forgive me. Oh my god, and that was you know, the power shift was instantaneous and my mental health improved incrementally by the nanosecond That is why, on this happy, when it the person get because he felt it, You, like you know he wasn't, it was real yeah does shield roblee been carried
it's somewhere and as well actually can imagine carrying that knowledge. You do have a let stuff. It's inverted it's insane what we carry for a lifetime yeah? This seems to be the theme Are you? Are you positive nature or are you kidding for eureka image me like Lee, Israel yeah well, now, I'm not that much of a curmudgeon sitting in a dark, haired and cobwebs in misery, I'm not as much of a commotion as we israel in the film or air or in person, what should I enjoyed it? A lot and we're going to talk about it, but I'm not I'm not I'm not through with my vetting so this diary business Is you know? I know you you hang onto that, but you still do it. I still, because I, pictures of the country that I grew up in the second said: there's no television and the huge three
my childhood, we as neil also daniel Moore amanda, Moore they're, making a movie about exactly called first man, and I saw that I heard that, on the on the wireless via then coordinated, sixty nine, when I was twelve years old, when you were still in diapers and why was six at night? Okay, maybe I wasn't. I provide problems. Young yoga, handsome and it seemed as unlikely to say that he wanted to be an actor as it was to say. Well, I'm going to be an astronaut we are said to to have ended up. having the world as I have done meeting the people who have done sitting here or was it you near, misses a big one. It's it's a way of making it feel real via the diarrhea yeah. It is, I think, that's a, I think, that's a good thing, because I've never been able to stick with it. You know, but at eleven it was more. If you record everything so you've got record of white buddy? You know this stuff. Your life behind the face is really worth the important stuff yeah was out of the face you now. That's all you're yielded the smiling
and you're you're a peli archie, because you're you're smiling at me now, but you're. Actually, weeping in misery not misery that yet, but I could we pretty easily. Okay, could you that comes with age? Oh yeah having a child. I can't, I don't doubt immortal using me weep, and I mean that genuinely no, no I this sensitivity thing is, is kind of profound, but it happens in weird ways. I I don't. I don't get it from the news, but I can get it from moments on the street. They seem huh, you're, painfully human. You know that that again, tolerance and the other that you have to earn. Another thing you have to learn is empathy yeah. I don't think we're naturally prone to that notes. Selflessness or hot and on us and completely undue me because they're not the norm. In my experience of life and how old were you when you had the child, I was. She is twenty nine I can't do the math I was
ty one. However, that's alright, I mean so you so you've had this crying problem, for you know twenty five years, oaths yeah twenty nine Since the day she was born in nineteen nine yeah since then this thing or somebody, but it seemed like the diary was more of a confessional thing. Like you know, you needed to sort of account for that that the by the darkness, you are carrying yeah. I tried religion and whether you tried that, but I got no answer, went how old were you when you tried when I was eleven, oh and that was now you may want to tempted eleven you I tried to about six months, Would you try? I just gotten. I tried the I try the bible and trim to pray We'll let you come from a church family! No, and I got no answer. My father said the Heaven and hell is what you make your own life. It's the end. be reassured that there is nothing beyond that when you die. You go back to the un of before you're born being I kind of like that, and I found that very reassuring yeah to have
so, then they now you know in retrospect that your father waved in a hell. Yahoo is death. They sell equal we chose hell and you hell yeah. So keeping a diary was a way of yup. I couldn't tell my friends, I said: could tell my parents yeah, so it was a way of of making it that that I didn't go nuts, that I thought this has happened. It's a recording of what's going on, that's a truck ingenious, because as you get older, I can't like I met. If you do a diary in the immediacy of of it. If you do it every day, I would imagine that you can at least die if you meant the moment in your mind and in reality, because as I get older, I don't know, what's happened in what hasn't and in what really happened and like I've, I've lived in enough cities now and I'm fifty five people walk up to me and they're, like hey man, you remember MIKE you're going to have to earlier yeah you're going to have to give me a city at a time period because
click quicken right now. So how do you get out of swaziland, which would the? What? How do you end up an actor africa's? I always make assumptions about the british actors like that you're all hanging around the same lofty kind of classically trained shakespearean model Actually, that's not true. In my case, my father said your brain: is who good to waste on trying to be an actor. There's no present a family for doing out. So if you find a university way, you can do a fit of training. The same time do that bright, sunlight due to be what he wanted me to a lawyer or a writer or a journalist, or something with a noble purpose. and if he generally thought that being an actor was a lifetime. Wearing make up, tights and avoiding burglary, but it is interesting. Those are basic concerns. Not they like you would pass. We not make a living or that it will develop areas waiting for you. There, like use a thought, I'd be destitute. The outright
If I didn't care about money- and he said well, you can only say that because you're young, because you will need mama, that innocent rising business was out. So I found there was a local architect who told me that there was a drama training. in cape town, which was twelve hundred miles south of where I grew up here and you could go and do a university degree there and then make an exception. According your academia of doing the fit a diploma at the same time over well, yeah. So that's what I did in cape town, cape company, I left the after two years emigrated immigration Well, I was a theatre company. It is called the troop theoretical and was multiracial was based its at a political, the space in character the space and came down what years is. What are we talking? Like? Cities is nineteen, I graduated might someday nine a month which ensued accompany nineteen eighty. Ninety ninety one,
immigrated? Okay, so like the world was very connected at that point, you weren't, living in the other. People got information not as quickly as we do now, so I'm just trying to figure out the tone. Was it like expert theater where they confronting political, Everything was anti apartheid right, yeah, I get with did it was in the nineteen ninety two, while I'm Adele was released from prison. So it was provocative, dangerous theater. You were doing that's what we were doing, but unfortunately, as you will know, all too well, that's if you are doing fit for a liberal. middle class audience there you preaching to the converted right now is the audience being a. The audience has a hard time, the bringing in the youngsters such meta. It's because do much Well. I don't know what it is, but you know when you read about it. I'm sure you have to when you read about day, the weather is
the theater of cruelty or whatever was going on near him with the julian back. Are you read about even the group theatre you with these noble sort of de as if you're bringing peace tree and in populism to the masses. There is still the old people that were shuffling in and filling up half the house to see the new o play. I don't think it ever is romanticize. I don't think it ever had the traction. I don't maybe I'm wrong, though, in some theater you're upset, but like you're doing something you do. You feel like you're changing the world here and there, and so the do. You feel personally, that you had some effect on the decision to release mandela from prison in the denial, because I realized that, after doing it for ya doing every political writer good lay hands on having actors within the group, plays yeah and we aid. Not an answer. Differences counted the most right wing, extreme africa. Our party's people meeting the most extreme left wing
african national congress meal, and they were the people. That's you know. That's where it happened. Sure, But to do with the liberal, like I guess, on some level, though, like I think this is probably important yo in terms of looking at historical. You did, you know me different pete, Oh, you did engage in different points of view. You did work with. You know like. I think that that that sort of micro, level of Integrating and in embracing and and doing that kind of stuff doesn't mean nothing good, but I'm glad to hear them my education- was an entire voice I I have to believe that right. You have to believe on some level that you know if you do good things, and you know you take chances that that you know you don't know the butterfly effect. That means he's looking so, but you what were you doing like and you know regular kind of experimental weirdness naked plays, and you know
I yelling ways- and we did- we did all of us- the yeah uh you're out in the audience making them uncomfortable plays exactly yeah. So but you never had need training fitted with our boys know. We had training really three three as of drama training and work, They training was that, based on the does left, method and they use the curriculum of the colonial way of the royal academy of dramatic art in london as a tablet of what do. So you had the royal academy, template and knit one guy who taught method exactly exactly the opposite of a smorgasbord of stuff exit, theatre of cruelty, mime, restoration, drama, how to walk and talk and there's also be bold enough to take all your clothes off and keep a conversation going, same time. An shakespeare, yeah yeah. There lots of shakespeare, get a little obsessed with shakespeare. When I talk to british people, why
because I I don't. I don't have the love for it that I should- and you know, in Ian Mckellen, sir Ian Mckellen sat there across from me in my old garage. Then did a monologue to my face. Wow and I was like a keg- I get it. I get it. You want somebody who say I did Tom. What's that, tricky thing is like. If you listen you still going to be difficult but you'll get the hang of it dear. But if you check out for a second, you know: you're, like you're fucked plotted wise your store. You don't like me talking mongolia me, I don't know, I guess, but do you find. Finally, you understand it because I grew up yeah. It was read to me it's something that's familiar yeah, but I began to stand. That's my daughter doesn't, have it needs at the same time she likes to go into theatre to see it, but I certainly didn't read shakespeare to her. Does she want to go into show business? She is a casting director. We'll see that's a reasonable job in show business, yeah, yeah yeah,
have you had to go before her to audition, for as she has she took me, a job in a movie called the nutcracker connections really worked out for you. I wish you put me up for the job here. Do they get it exactly gap? Nomads, my old age so say, you're, loaded up with method, shakespeare and in a sort of unique racial tolerance? And you go back to britain and then what happens well, when I got there in nineteen eighty two, mrs thatcher, the then prime minister. She decided to invade long, island, sort of of argentina yakima to what effect I have no idea. Does anyone know who knows seattle I think I heard her poles were very, very low at that pleasure, jack great. Chile and follow up, and I thought I think she thought this would be the way that would save a bacon right united by having a generation of people going where that said. Eighty to you that your you're going- and you want to make a difference in england now writing to
right into the provocative theatre scene exactly twenty five years old, and then you find that all you can get is a job as a waiter in covent garden next to the opera house, these that's about as radical as you can get solos. You know the ideology goes out the door, but you don't have you don't have this big wall of apartheid to fight right, cuz, it's happening on another too little indifferent different hemisphere. But you do have the fight in in england, but for some reason those fight seem less pressing yeah. They do. Yeah invites that when people were sort getting hot under the collar about what mrs Thatcher was doing, compatible a party it see in relation to was the atrocities and in humanity of the part. I asked him, it seemed small, seem political, yet seem political, So you were waiter and you're like what do I have to do to work enough?
this treaty illogical executive just kept me a jewel and were in what was the first big acting? I got. I did a lunch hour play and then from that I got an agent and then in a sort of doing dribs and drabs, EU absented classic routes or, what's your lunch lunch hour point, oh you going, soap, opera notes in up in up a pub in a bar Rita. Yet that point you could do a play for now on people used to take lunches. they didn't anymore, they go to a pub to see they go to see. Let's see, Pena some young actors perform here. They get some poor agent dragged in there to come and stuff their face with a savage, and see you act and then give you can become an additional unit an agent and then, as I get started, and so then start doing tv work or what now doing fit a work. I was the theatre, work, yeah, whole theatre? I got. The tv job in nineteen eighty five followed by nine months of unemployment, and the job was with an improvised thing for the BBC, with gary oldman of all people
when it came out the day after it came out a year later, I got a new agent and he has a film called with never lie because Well, Deleuze turned down the part, really hadn't. I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you I broke you got to make this a date. To this day is a is a cult favorite of sorts which is in england. yeah. Well I mean it is about here, be we have the anglophile. No populations are quiet here, but there's a lot of them and I don't know what it is. A very specific thing I can anglo files, it will just be like, oh anything, anything english, throne, pbs, sort of mainline, a waiting waiting out here for something worthy for downton abbey here at downton abbey bet. He used to be what upstairs downstairs and then a monty python and there's likely a masterpiece, the english people, the entity they loved it they're like why can't we be as together, as those people proper and what not but like what who was with now is so when he came out in england, was it popular?
which came a went very very quickly and it was and is a result of being on dvd onto video, dvd and students taking up that. It then develop his cup fully. The item if the guy is interesting because he did a couple of movies with him in the other movie. Was I get an amazing again a cult favorite, but I don't know. I think everyone should see how to get a had, never told that they think a crazy fuck and moving. Then what about a man who grows a talking boil on his neck. Is so good when you know when it first starts talking it's insane and anti thatcherite rents from the director right, a breeze winsome. Do you like that guy? What happened to that guy? He lives on a farm he's. Seventy two years old in in border in england game. I see him very regularly. Do we take great friends? I think he saw a brilliant guy here. He is. Did he do a lot of work after how to get ahead? Never tell he wrote what he region where the killing fields, which made his name and all my nomadic that movie sham waters- and I am now giving those great movie, yeah great idea,
and thought about that movie in a long time. So he wrote that on these he recently published a book a huge twelve hundred page doorstop, a called jack Ripper? Is it a historical thing or is he he believes that he found who the real jack the ripper was and was a tad? Was it part of the royal family night wasn't know, I'm thinking that that's a an ad as theory, though, wasn't it yeah there are so many fears and but his nailed it then you work with. what were you and Henry and june I don't have a husband to have a twelve inch penis, we went over the heavy mirror instead because he was much more interesting, a lesser sized member, and that was a shaved head fred ward in my russia, fred ward yeah, because Alec Baldwin was going to play the part yet and then he pulled out. I think two weeks before stop shooting and Daniel day Lewis pulled out of with now he he was offered it because he he had. He had broken america, essentially because he he played feet at warden in rome at the view
margaret hunk near my beautiful laundry right, my dear falander, I thought we were released on the same day, which was an absolute yeah, just genius from his variety point of view, vedra people It was the same person. Do you know that guy yup? He was opposite up. Absolutely everything yeah and chose to do the unbearable lightness of being. Instead, the unbearable length of this movie yeah yeah, so he was so. He chose to do that, and so there was scraping random. They found a guy who the one tv show with gary oldman, and so that's how I got to play that part yeah do you don't they are you friends with Daniel I missed on I was on. I had small part in school age of innocence, the refs. his wooden all and on the first day of shoes, I prostrated myself in front of him- and I said oh daniel- I owe my entire career and life and he said, arise and in character still
He was not encounter that point and then it was in character from the next day and didn't speak to me for the next three months and thence spoke to me. The last day that I was shooting and came out of his character, so it an external experience with it. What do you think of people work that way well, Wheel has three oscars, so you can't really count really in argue with the man's method, but you tried to do that. If your approach is my precious the is doesn't, I don't have any oscars myself, because I think that's enough the day you have your own life and you are pretending to be somebody else. that's right, but I with island. Let's not did you, let's not be. The oscars is somewhat of a political ordeal envy. You know, I mean don't just talk about it like it's. Some sort of weird justice and I mean he's a great actor- I'm not going to deny him that, but you'll get an oscar.
If you keep working and you live to about ninety, they have to give you what will happen well gonna live for another thirty years. Maybe do keep trying my breathing, like is it's weird. You work with these great. Do you work with cobler, nance or safety when they decided to do things that were completely different than what they had done before? Exactly where you you know, I gotta miss the gritty sort of in a hands on guy. In your age of innocence, I mean what was like that was like a study in table settings completely and What was your did you ever imagined because of your dracula? You had a bit more to do what did you, what was it working with Coppola? Was it something he was like a circus ringmaster and he likes to work in a self confessed state of chaos where family friends clear dogs, music, everything is just into them If he told me the rest were and sort of of him, because we were rehearsing at his big estate and then APA,
before we start, and I had he said I can't cook for two people. I can only cook for thirty people, and I thought that was exactly the metaphor of her. He will worked as a director here where scorsese was exact opposite. He worked in monastic, silence, people whispered on the set and have people whispered louder than that he may literally blow a gasket, no kidding yeah. So it was very, it was the exact opposite, and I worked one from one directed to the next without I think of a two week break, so it couldn't be more extreme and whether that was because of the subject matter of larger upper class dinner, east wharton society on its engine york or whether that's how he always is. I don't know but michael by hustler, much about the sentimental reformed dracula, an age of instead said to me that this is how he always works
he's got a lot going on in the tense white warrior with copra. I think there's like a young, pre aging and premeditation Coppola, and it sounds like he got in under the wire that like ocean, he I feel like, I think something shifted in his disposition, because if you watch out hard is a dark, the documentary hearts of darkness about making I could see it was clear that he was just like yeah it. So you got to experience it yeah and as well towards the end? I guess we have with what that was. I was going to say the player. You were great in that. Thank you. Like. I think you have a knack for for slightly morally bankrupt characters, but- true, the president will out right exactly but have mean there's that moment tat that it was a great turn in that movie and in any one of the I think few comedic turns, the player was when you know you shift
you start out like you and artists, and then you know you're a dead sea it when you come to recognise the authority julia roberts and bruce willis to complete out complete just yeah what about him as a director, because that was seemed a little more controlled for him than usual that movie well, because that movie was scripted and so his his what he really added to that was. casting everybody who was an extra as a movie actor I'll really so that was. That was the thing that really was the kicker, out of the player, yeah yeah and a but it's a it's a great movie. Do you like it yeah I loved it. I loved doing it and because I'd seen I'd seen Nashville twenty seven times when I was a even so so that I'd never live long enough or what he would live long enough. He had ever get a chance to work for him, and I was told when I left home school I looked too weird to be an actor who could make it so yeah
I never thought I'd work with with with him, and so I got three three goes with him and he was. He was very loyal to actors and he loved them. He asked If that was you, think that would be the norm for movie directors, but I don't think it entirely is, but he certainly he loved people and he was very loyal if he did player, pretty poor, tear and gosford park. Oh gosford party, that's right! That was sort of a return to form a little bit again completely scripted with improvised bits around it, but essentially centrally, was Juno a strip that he had to follow they had their vied, though, why that was one of those. Oh, you point there, but like them with a head, but butler guy right, but it had that? Because you know the difference between you know, the serving class and the upper class like the chatter, so that it was
is the play in that movie right, the the the the way humans interacted exactly yeah, that was a that was a that was a good omen movie. I'd forgotten that he did that what of directors just think like? Well, we hired you to be to do what you do. So what do you want from me except to ask yeah just go? Do they did so that a stunt bumped advantages get on with it. That's the I would think I think it is yeah is that is that was at the disillusioning for you. Initially, it was a big surprise when your fear to trainee comes to the fore that you know that you've got enough. the stuff in advance and make decisions about it and not now, entirely rely that the directive can be the person who's going to do. provide you all the answers, not daddy the no help, not the wizard of oz by the media. He pulled the curtain back and you see somebody who's, not thinking about the actor by
although in in Henry, in junior work with kaufman, yes and he he was like an under appreciated director. I think I think he was here or is he is he still was engaged he was, please engage in he and his late wife rosa, had co written the screenplay and they were passionate about yeah henry mirror under the of the they'd lived all their license in san francisco, yeah right. They they had all the sort of liberal arts credentials to drive up to take up the area. I thought it was a pretty good movie. I want to talk a little bit about the movie that you made that I did not see okay there, because it was an autobiographical film, yeah and set in Sweden. Where all the stuff that I taught you right at the beginning of may add, and the movie opens with miranda richardson who played my mother shagging, a guy that was my best friend, played my father and Emily watson played my stepmother
so it was an innocuous hope played me when I was fourteen years old, so it was very cathartic thing to do. It was painful to write I am an amazingly cathartic and rewarding expanded to direct because going as a middle aged person in control of one hundred and twenty people, creating your life yeah It was amazing thing of course eccentric in extreme, but to do it in the act, locations where the stuff happened was really bucking. The theory that you can't go back in time and it like we literally, did go back in time and you out of it yeah was it a struggle to do like I took took five years and you know the maya fell through all the time and yeah. We never thought we'd ever get released, but you got shown at the toronto film festival and Wolden thing things, so you know that's, I'm just a we ever it made. Do you do
I do direct more now I tried and have the other two personally, that I've had have called a financially collapse three weeks before. Shooting start, oh my god, so they kind of just put a dent in it. For while I thought well I'll, stick to the day job. I'm always amazed at people that do that, because it really does. He like you, want to make a movie on an independent level. I mean, could take five ten years of your life. It's masochism. I didn't have that many years left, I started making perfume instead I read that I was sort of like what is that about. Well, this alone. from obsession I fell and met in other than american cultural betsy clap who derive in swaziland. Not he sixty nine. I couldn't afford to buy I for her, so I made what I thought it's going to be opposition are number five out of narrow, Damien rose petals, but a bold up and sugar wat and bade him again on a course of just stink bomb such men. Other fortieth professionally make it so now made it with lime, marijuana mandarin. You can put in l a and you can buy it online. What's it called it's called jack and it's unisex
and this was like this was not some sort of like, as I was looking at that, unlike what we have company reach out to richard grant the I guess he like got that much traction unknown world. I don't do not make a cent self finance itself. You know the whole thing. This was an obsession yeah, it's a one, man browned obsession, That's insane it seems like that. You know that somewhere he knew your your your father's son, you have a little unrequited love. I do for that girl. Clearly, yes, what happened to ms clapp, I dunno she left. She was out a year later. I've never seen sadness out of a sense for boy that that in that bottle stuck with you. It has certainly done how's that how's that cent selling he has done really well. It has yeah. Well, that's it there. You go a whole new business, whole new business, morrow, more rules, I will then try to make independent movies. That's him that's insane, so alright boy. Well, I guess what people have seen recently. Is that jackie? I thought that was a great movie. Oh thank you great movie,
did you enjoy that movie yeah? Because I thought that's not important. It's an extraordinary job, it's sort of it's kind of a meditation on grief here. It is was We kind of a powerful, interesting movie yeah in c I'm not a superhero guy was F on. It was very testosterone used. Yeah is that is a lot for you on a salary of three hundred people, as opposed to working with many hella and all her predominantly female crew, on how to get beyond ten. You ever give me what is the complete opposite That explains. Why do I mean it's like you? I would. I would assume that overrides is the extreme example of alpha grew through entered men and let you know little good muscles the size of a head and you're the bad guy. I was about to one of me at you like that
yeah spine to do it in the end and also I I have to pay a little attention to like I'm, not a doctor who guy, but I imagine, there's a lot of people that you know they love you for that. He did it, weiss. Yes, no, no, and I did have they did a radio image one points, and so was never, I think, was animated with voice over and stuffs play the doctrine that men I played the villain and christmas special of doktor, who If I know other people know from that, a certain type of arson. Yes, yet these do you do a common stuff- and I haven't- but I've heard about them- raising doktor delighted isn't and it that's at world, isn't it yeah yeah any will go I haven't gone yet. I'm sure I will and what is this star wars, business was business? Is you reads, get sent a generic scene and you self tape and you sent it off.
And you have no idea what it is goes out of the ether and then two months go by and your agent calls up of my agent called up and said: are they sending a car for you to get his pinewood studios to meet jj abrams? The director For what star wars right? Okay, so you go in there and he says so you're going to do the part you go what's the part and He from then onwards you sign a confidentiality treatment. He adds you can not mention any other you're in it so you don't know that you don't know anything about it publicly, not at all, not to heck, but apparently I've been doing it again. Yeah I in costume them is that exciting in it is because it's you go into Yonah palo, a parallel universe something that I'd seen when I was eighteen years old at drama school muddied. Seventy, seven and sudden, you're in that place. Where spacey
Things are going on around you and also your part of the history. Now you're I mean it's like it's a it's a a rarefied kind of you know what I mean. The cynical part of a terrified paranoid. Part of my brain thinks, will I be in the movie when it comes out next christmas, or will I be cut out or replaced and that's always a possibility. That's the problem with the acting thing. Exactly so you weren't Zuzu stanhope stall was just big briefing here life than me. That's right! Maybe it's! Maybe you can do it man but the new movie I watched last night. Can you ever forgive me and you know I've. I've talked to melissa before you have, and we all know a comedian. You know, and I this serious role is it for her and it was it was it it's kind of an abrasive, Emily heartbreaking character, and you I. I have not seen this much of you in a long time. In a movie I mean this a big role, haha and it was a you know again, a guy who's sort of a heartbreaking abrasive character.
But it was. It was great. I really enjoyed the film and I thought you know you're either captured that particular guy, all his flaws very imperfectly. While thank you, but that's entirely due to the screen play by Nicole hoofs interns, Jeff witty and miles direction and how it is working with Melissa and how is that working with Melissa, she's, very difficult, now, she's very, very difficult she's unkind, she's unfriendly. She never shipowners, align she's, always blades and just terrible breath. It was. It was a nightmare frankly, but I hope you don't publish we would you believe we would dare put that on the page reception, extraordinary yeah, everything that you'd hopeful she's I know this sounds pretentious, but I am what I mean. I mean it very basis here, she's credible, as you will know, sitting across from her she's emotionally present, oh yeah
blushing paper. You really something to her and you see the effect we re. No, this no subterfuge, there's no calculation or whatever the hell. You just feel that you're getting to the genuine person. I think that is why people love her so in reality interesting to see her do at such a difficult ang. Yet in in angry yeah angry one yeah. I just thought whole thing was was played really nice way that you have that the center it like the story itself being a true story about the end, this desperation that leads to this fairly, gifted writer doing these forgeries. You your relationship with errors or partner kind of happy? It happy happy as it happens out of nowhere. you meet in sad, lonely, kind, I am gay bar, but I What I thought was interesting out is that the focus
it didn't shift to the sexuality of the thing I mean it was there, but it was really about the the relationship with these two sort of broken. You know desperate people that were doing what was necessary and also exciting to sort of live. He happens to be gay, she happens to be a lesbian and it doesn't seem to be of any real it not ever made to an issue movie and that when I thought that was the great strengths to it, the It was just his yoga. It was in avoided. Obviously, absolutely I mean the the scene towards the end where, like that moment, where she says, watch your house, I'm watching the movie going like now, you can't let that guy wait. What are you thinking is going to happen was sad when she comes home, yup the itself don't talk about because that's actually a spoiler in that movie You watch your apartment. She comes home very sad moment, but but oddly you know that, as as difficult ass she was in you know as somewhat can
the boys, your character, is you do. I thy emmi. There you do at the end, you know going to be ok here, and I think that what was mile hell? I really did as a director was she. She was uncompromising, dealing with the loneliness and desperation of these people, yeah, it's like just muddling through licence, What john John Lennon famously said, just before was murdered in your life is what happens in between your plans, and this is exactly what happens to the two people. Yet in the inn in there, this sort of the desperation in the loneliness in your sort of a house where the young- and she is just you- note, a desperate and and bitter yeah and it was like yeah? I think that your a lot of people can relate to that theory. I got that she, she just innately mines the dna,
comedy of evil. It is fascinating that junior she gets laughed out of things. You think, while on paper is that funny, the out she makes it because it's it's very true. your nature, but she can't like yeah, you cuz, usually in now at this point in culture. When you see her you're kind of like is it it was just go to vegas. She doesn't a really do it that way. She does it very much in character and it is a hard character and enact. I thought that the the the surrounding actors were were kind great as well. that woman, who that who owned the bookstore and that was shot really smartly. You know in the sense that when she sitting there, you can't really see how tall she, how old she is. You know over. You know what where she's coming from, but then, when you know, they're out, it's like a whole different, thing and she played the vulnerability that characters like devastating, but this story Is it true story now when it it's? If people don't know it's about a woman who, had Britain successfully a couple of biographies and been on
sorrow s, but could not really mean her own way writing about herself, and she was obsessed with writing about fanny, brice somehow or another falls into forging letters of famous writers and selling them right. nor to pay rent in our judges? survive. So it's a kind of active literary ventriloquism and successful either because she could the voice of these people and make it convincing She convinced experts, that's that these were letters known let by dorothy home and no in a great integrate jesse around rightly, I managed to clone hassle into being they were her name was lee shapiro Israel? We israel now and in this all happened to her now when you got the script? Was it offered to you? Did you have to additional for it or did you you know when you read the material where you like eyes is great store? I got cool by an agent who said you have twenty four hours to read the script. A major make a decision start shooting in
months time and in what two months manhattan me two years ago I said who has dropped out who has died and she said that is not what you should be asking yourself very concerning with, or do you want to do this? Not so who's playing the israels have miss him cause him. If ever you read that three times higher than that, because I know it's all fucked up that show business is it of like you get yeah I jumped at it anyway. He those are the questions you shouldn't be asking, except it's happened to you twice three times: yeah, it's a natural cause. I knew so fucked up about show business is sort of like you get offered these things. It's like you have ten minutes yeah. So how did you get? the outline. How do we get to the ten minutes? How much did you find it anything they'd make it bad for you. No, I didn't know, and I tried to stick with the thing of not asking who or what or how at who That's not the way to go. But what do you do when that happens? let given know paranoia, which I am to that's not the before
way to go. But what are you doing? That happens I mean if you find out Debbie found out before you till you started acting and then you just comparison to that person. I think you do may even do that dealings. I people unites. I try to ask what somebody was like the person that the who with now. That's they wish doping before it's. You know you may have enormous curiosity to find out about them. He s best, not to know and setting out see a photograph of them. I am you'd only gonna feel it probably inadequate. yeah. I think that diminishes a little bit with age when you get a little bit of confidence or narrate. What am I going to do yeah, you know about confidence. It just doesn't, unfortunately, that sort of like juggling with jelly and water it doesn't. It doesn't hold for long. It's the worst yeah The worry feel so great, a mundane. Somebody just comes up inside swipes. You need just year, like jenna, flattened all over yup, yeah or when you have to show up to do the work, and you feel that heaviness that every hearted thing kang I'm not
intuitive marketing? I can't go out the door yeah yeah. You get that still, oh yeah! That never goes away. I just accept that. That's how it is, but fine that like right, when you start doing what you doing, that you cannot have a nationalist and but you does it diminish it. When you engage you won't you b s amendment in this situation, this movie Can you a wednesday- and I said, are we? I think there was a planet and were hearse before we saw she's gonna Monday here and then I was told ya. Melissa had been making annette. Seventy five moves in full concepts or whatever she was doing. Writing publishing three books and we're a fashion line. She turned up. The fright I beg mariel head, I said: can please just have half an hour ten minutes anything just a week there was not on the first day having to play these people. really as other members have felt the same way- and we know we spent the whole morning going through the script and having lunch together and talking- and you know you know- from the malcolm Gladwell jump blink book essay-
That's you make a decision about another human being with you. Gonna get on with them on out instinctively within fifty nanoseconds means actual yeah thanks her so well you have a very go animal instinct ensnared rivalry. Somebody here and we got on right, trauma get go, and I think that that was a godsend because then meant that when we started work on Monday actual shooting I felt like I I I when lately knew something about her yeah right in a way that, if we met on the first day on my nerves had been so shredded with jet lag and not sleeping for seventy two hours trying to get through the window, any I hate my guts idea about, we'd gone through that, and should we all that's that we I would think that you would have to be a real tremendous asshole from melissa Mccarthy, not to like you great, and I knew I would think that you would have to be a real tremendous ass over Melissa. Mccarthy. Not do I give up believe me.
yellow leave me. Please also fooled she seems so embracing. You know she is and was ecstasy jane curtain to higher. It's you ain't, so good. I love when that hand compromising unjust straight down the line being absolutely at united graced yeah. was it. There was a sort of a nice comedic balance to the thing a little bit suddenly a year, and I like one most mccarthy, I guess her husband. I cast his area of business scumbag guy, you know where the other guy who's right- dear shady yeah yeah, but one of the ultra autograph book booksellers the idea that she essentially got the part by sleeping with him of my being asthma, because he was caused in the foot incarnation of the movie. When that, the austin director went down. He was still attached to. It, and militia then read it. I'm sure of it was a fount of nicola centres. Writing so then melissa, gots young, very keen on this project and kept saying that this is a great captain. This should should get made. Sir. She happened to be
to the guy that was caused. He was the heat, is the common denominator yeah they make their own movies as too, if they do so Lee Israel is no longer with us. No, she died twenty forty did. She die. if you're happier with more money. There was a guy that was hanging around the Judas bulb to the oldest gay bar in manhattan, the area we was shooting web of Lee. Israel parked herself regularly air with headphones on and the walkman cassette to shut the world out, but not to be harassed by people and a guy came up to Melissa, went up this guy. Who was hanging around a lot and said you nuts, side in a who you are you on the crew were known. friend of liese, and he said it. And can you for me to be seeing you as liza now because I to sit next to her and he's she said to him? Do you lee would have been happy with what we're doing response was happy
not really anything that lead it. I think the knew how the daughter who's the producer David, yeah to encourage lee to write the story eventually about about her. I four during their life near, he thought that she would have been incredibly thrilled to have a spotlight on her work and her life. did melissa get her. I mean, like Amman, was yet the book, a new girl, she's, absolutely nailed who this person I've got I enjoy the movie and greater canoe. With the rest of the junket, thank you very much that's it. That was great. I had no idea what to expect. He wanted to know a bit about me. I gave it to him and then he that's it. That was great.
I yeah? I had no idea what to expect. He wanted to know a bit about me. I gave it to him and then he told me about him, and it was an interesting story was unique and I enjoyed his company is a very sweet guy and great actor loved Hey have a good weekend, maybe I'll see you the thing and, if not good have a good time with that thing. You're doing hey! Good luck with the thing: you got going hope that works out, don't worry about, it'll, be good it'll, be good, it'll, be good. I will play Some simple we're done guitar now
the I our lives.
Transcript generated on 2022-07-17.