Maggie Gyllenhaal grew up with filmmaker parents but didn't really feel like her family was in show business. That disconnect has helped her in her work and life, like when she performs with her husband, Peter Sarsgaard, or when she turns to her mother for screenwriting advice. Maggie and Marc also talk about the sexual politics of The Deuce and how they match up with the Hollywood today, her relationship to poetry and how that factored into her performance in The Kindergarten Teacher, what she learned about herself making Secretary, and what kind of support system she shares with her brother Jake. This episode is sponsored by Omaha Steaks, YouTube Music, 23andMe, and the New York Times Crossword Puzzle App.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
All right. Let's do this, how are you what the fuckers, what the pot bodies, what the fuck's doubles, what the fuck in years, what's happening, I'm marc marin. This is my podcast wtf. It's I do that intro and I've been for years and years, and I used to think about all the different names I could use. But then things become a habit. I going have to mix it up again. I may maybe No, I'm not going to get rid of it. It's it's! Just that you know, I turn on I hit record and and that's what comes out of my mouth, I'm part of the machine It's a symbiotic relationship. When I see the though sound wave going. When I talk, I don't know not exactly sure what's coming out of my mouth for the first few seconds, but I know I've been doing it a long time. Isn't that life isn't that life a bit? If you ever saw
life? If you live any life, there's a certain amount of repetition which ritual ritual Maybe we should look at it like that? Don't look at his a tedious redundancy. Look at it the rituals of your life that keep you grounded in in in your process. What is it self help, Is that what we're doing, I don't think so king to maggie jill and haul today, and that does not turn out to be agreed conversation, that's coming your way shortly. Now I'm teasing what you can forward to, if you really want to right now, you could be like oh maggie, Gyllenhaal yeah, I'm just gonna. I don't even care what mark has to say now. I understand a couple of I do want to say about two things that I need to promote for myself. The digital audio of my netflix special to real is officially available for purchase tomorrow December fourteen
you can still pre order today on the homepage, wtf, pod, dot, com and starting tomorrow you can get it directly on itunes, amazon, Google play or wherever you get digital, music or video, can't. I imagine also omerch is still percent off for the rest of this week at pod, swag dotcom, slash w e f, you just enter deputy f a check out and boulder colorado. I'm going to be there shit. When is that march? Twenty fourth my memory works as quick as I can You know the link on in my browser. That's how quick my memory worked right then, yeah march, twenty four I'll be in boulder tickets, go on sale tomorrow Did I saw a theater, I always like playing there. I noticed the schedule is after me, hot tuna playing there and they're already sold out people are going to see your mind. Man jack noodle around on them guitars.
never seen them I've. Never. I never really walked into the hot tuna experience. So what's going on what is happening? Well, first off? I want to thank all the people that descendants in suggestions about my dishwasher soapy tasting bowls and a silicon Silicon silicone apparatuses. mars and things that just tell em gap. Thank you for the weiss in helping me of my. It tastes like so problem. I think I'm going to try to resolve that by cleaning my dishwasher with a vinegar and baking soda there's. This is will step process. I can't get into a reality of the works and then I'm gonna to switch to a liquid dishwashing detergent has no smell to it, and maybe use vinegar as a rent agent now I've tried these kind of
be the you know, solutions before where you know you don't use a product but use vinegar. You use a apple juice or it got not for that. a thing, but you know there are holistic approaches to things that seem to I not be as good as the chemically ridden products that smell nice and have nice labels. But, Maybe maybe I'm wrong, but thank you thank you for for all of your advice. I will take it so I guess I can be honest about. Yeah. I was a little haunted the other day and I you know this is heavy, but I I mean I I'd like it to be hopeful. In a sense, I just gotta this message out there, because I think it's important because
I think things are weighing on us and I've talked about this before I die. I'd like to be funny right now, but I am not to maybe I'm maybe I'm feeling a little funny, but ah well here's the deal I someone who I don't, who I don't really know but tried to help briefly, but I tried I mean it's not a not briefly, I tried to help this person. There are having a drinking problem and they couldn't get out from under it. So I What we do in the thing that I do, we went to a thing with other people to try to do the sober thing and end ah, and this purse it very square about it and and and freaked out, and they could not. They could not. They just couldn't they. They and, I said, look at you know you can. tat me about this ain't. I've. You want to go to a meeting if you wanna, you know, if you, if you ready to do it,
and this was a few months ago and they didn't do it, and I found out the other day that this person took their own life and it haunted me it's taunting me now, like I didn't know this person, but that they are, define person in my in my head, because I tried to help them, and this is not unusual in the world of the addiction and recovery and in whatever, where people can bear the weight of its free? I dont know what other problems is person had or or anything else by do know they This problem- and I guess I'm just saying that there is help and that the issue with this thing with. If you have addiction of any kind, is that it it locked it it got a hold on your brain. It's got a hold on your brain and you'll put off making a decision to help yourself it because you can't think straight because your brain is seized, and this can happen with anything, and again we can happen with the food drugs booze
ex gambling, whatever it is getting into debt, can you happened with even anger. Anger is compulsively addictive lot of damage to yourself. And others- and I know that if you're hearing this and you're in the grips of it, you're not going to hear exactly what I'm saying but and maybe this won't work for you, but you can get a window of reprieve and there is help out there go find it. Cuz we don't know the alternative. Alright life is life. What happens after that? Who the fuck knows at best you, you know you might get, you might get to fly. And an feel good about everything for eternity at worst napkin nothin. So I'm on set the other and I am sitting with the
we are in brief, were were doing. A scene in were were were needing to shoot and there a another person and actor who's got a small part there and we get we're talking right away and he just you know something came up on set and he said yeah, it's tough man, you know it's tough, being a conservative. Now and just weird, you can't say things you can't just standard kind of pattern. Patter, yeah? I guess I'd be a we gotta be. Were you gotta be worried about everything you say: yeah yeah, you gotta be a yellow, you gotta be careful. but what not hurting people Well, yeah, you know whatever it is. I you I I am a comedian. Am I've I've had these conversations. Or but then we are talking about yeah. He says, while yeah I'm a I'm a republican there, but yeah I'm concerned about the environment and that kind of thing and my while that enough for you to not, just by in you, know that
My point is, is that I did not to me I m day in, I brought up some stuff. That's in the news, and the interesting thing was that he knew none of it. He We didn't hear yet heard anything about the. Going on with the state legislature in wisconsin or what the true agenda of his woody is in in the context of what's happening now and- and maybe some of you are sitting there now, some of you republicans are like well, what is it? What do you know? How do you know? That's true there to be a barometer of truth, but you also have to go, find it and not just the sort of This even a party line thing you can't sort of by into the content. Destabilize asian of the truth, by sort of independent speculative, investigators with a conspiracy bent on secret knowledge and hidden truths that are more. we bullshit. There are facts, but whatever the case. My point is: is that
tremendously, uninformed and willing to to sort of way hold is ground, but not in an aggressive way, he was open and I am relatively open. There was no anger in it your side, and I think that a actually things issue is an realities will reveal themselves at that. Hopefully all of us can wake up and hopefully not because we are all a burning. man. This is not going the way I wanted it to. Let me about. I read this email, because this is this is sort of what I was setting up. The subject line is just thank you, I'm a new ish listener. I think she meant new ish, it says I may new dash fish was in her. I die but yeah I am a newish listeners. I recently stumbled across your podcast trying to find something both my husband I could listen to while driving up to see our daughter for parents weekend in northern.
For now. I dont think I'm in your predictable demographic, I'm a middle aged republican, suburban mom, retired chemistry teacher. Yet w t F has become my go to pod cast. You are a gifted interview. And I enjoy every person whether they are familiar to me or not because of your conversational and empathetic style. While I don't agree with your politics, your sincerity and genuine concern for the country are palpable and draw me in to listen to another perspective. You are an example of how we can talk with civility. cause? You speak from your truth, not disembodied ideology and it we d fuses, knee jerk tension, I'm right your book now and riveted by the addiction chapter. My husband has fifteen year sober my father and angry drunk in my mother, s gets a frantic. I know the horrors of these two and they are important to tell it will help people. It is helping me and I've come very far in my
coping, but still there a little ghosts. I just felt they had to reach out and thank you for being an open, sincere voice and for bringing something wonderful and qualitatively different to pod as I enjoy your creative contributions, wherever they are so great, so so great best patricia, See we can talk, we've all got problems, we all handle the problems differently. Yeah yeah way, but a and we all may be. Maybe we all think the same and this all seems futile some times cat. What will it take? I have found that that's in that's a good point that she made. You know you speak from your truth and not not disembodied ideology and it immediately diffuses knee jerk tension. Is it possible
I know there are. There are hard cases everywhere, but is it possible that we can have these conversations? I think so I think so. How about some happy talk me how? How is your life? How are your memories? How do you hold onto them? I've been reading this beastie boys book. Yes, and in a talk to him. I, like it, was one of those things where I love the beastie boys of listening to a lot of the records. I listened to the hell out of a few of them and and but I I I I didn't really know them or about them, and you I owe. assume that somehow or another we were similar but very different. It's why Is there a little younger than me they just that the new york that they Dr in this book is so was so beautiful. Remember from when I was a kid. It was greedy and weird and sweaty and noisy, and I guess it it, but there was a there was a sort of like edge to it. There was a slight chaos to it. There was a or something holding it together, there was a a I self regulating.
democratic stew of freak? she's going on there and the one thing about new york. Go that, like I m talking the maghribi Joanna and she's in the deuce, and that's why seventies and I have vague memories of that, because there was a time where, where might my I used to visit new york city, I used to go to new jersey. When I lived in new mexico as a teenager fourteen fifteen years old, I go to new jobs. You visit my grandmother and they'd. Let us take the boston and spend the day in new york, go to port authority, six thousand three hundred and seventy three seven thousand six hundred and seventy seven. Maybe seventy eight. I mean it wasn't the early seventies where words complete fucking chaos, but it was still pretty chaotic getting out there and like a just when I watch the deuce, I have. I vague memories of that time. Just that that what I was talking about before that that that bit of chaos at the
adds that bit a menace the bit of jessica, garbage and things breaking down, and people talking themselves in the street and traffic in roads, sort of crumbling but being varig and lights, and new york yeah maggie Joanne hall is a is a in the film the kindergarten teacher which is now streaming on netflix. She was great in the deuce which we talk about she's, always great. I was I did to meet her a little intimidated by think. Ultimately, it went well. This is me and maggie talking here in the garage, The EU. Have you been to other people's homes to dubai?
it's never anyone's garage, okay, good good! I just want to make sure that I did a nice one, which was for a backstage. You know, which is like we're basically talking to actors being interviewed by someone who I dunno if he was an actor, but he was into acts. Yeah yeah. I was acting one that was really talk about acting where every? It was a long one. It was as long as I was in new york, that was a new and you went to a place with a guy yeah. I went to like it. I think I had addition for like car commercial voice over another level. Is the figure I didn't get it but edwin therapy so went in with some a little ptsd about something that rejection Do you live in new york, but Have you always lived there, I was born there city yeah on second avenue and second street, really yeah, that's kind of
two if it doesnt matter, but I mean I know, is it added nineteen? Seventy second and second, through their dismay, is there is a good aim, meeting fair fact in the day, and I think it is right that church right here in the basement what year? Does that mean? Twenty seven? seventy seven and then, when I before, I turn one my parents drove out here to California say were you there in the back, yeah strapped in yeah, yeah And then I moved back to new york when I've seventeen to go to college. So you grew up They came out here and they were for show business yeah. There shall be his my mom's, a screenwriter. My dad said director: are they still yeah? did it make- that has he may be movies now, at what my mom wrote running on empty your sidney lament movie and as well as some other things at my dad. Actually just saw screening of em this movie, my dad directed called
waterland, oh yeah are arguing. That is not an old move him in that four to forty seconds, I like walk across his great. How will the fourteen and so there was a screening of it and it's an old movie screening of it, a columbia, film school because they were honoring, the guy who'd produced it and they flew my dad out and they did a q and a and we, my parents are divorced now, but my mom was there: oh, really yeah we get along They sorta do, and it was kind of a nice thing that she was there in a way because, like I don't know if you have a partner but like we're me, my husband is like he's a part of my work right now. He actually sort of hates to talk about my work with me. but it is a matter. We still end of don't I've shocking about it. You know so for her to be there and also for I know I actually thought it was a great movie
I haven't seen it, but I mean who asked did? Did your dad ask her to go? She just gower. Do I have that? Were I dont think she's allowed to just girl went out, and worst of all we are doing is found your as the year. He asked her ass turn. That's nice though it was well received in it must be while to deny did have your movie screen after what is a twenty years, yeah yeah it was was really good movie yeah, you know, I mean, and I don't think they screen a movie again, very often after twenty five years or whatever, unless good. So you grew up in show business. Basically I mean I, I think that that is the I would say, that's inaccurate I mean other people, I it's hard to know because, yes, I grew up with my mom riding in my, but they made like little movies they were in cars, you know, and I wasn't making movies. I mean yes, it's true when I was fourteen. I walked across the screen in waterland and it's weird, it's kind of a funny thing.
When I watch that I was nearing, I already knew. I wanted to be an actor right, and yet I'm sort of getting this time gig from my dad and leg, you felt terrible actually to have this weird job for one second and have nothing to do and I had a little tiny little scene like that. Another movie they made together where I came in and said one line are actually on my birthday when I was like sixteen, in working, which reveals how dangerous woman- and they were that together they do my mom road it at my dad directed at is that would lead to the divorce, I think, actually truly might have had something to do with it. No kidding they really didn't work. Well together, my parents, oh, so that's sad, as you are in something about people when you work with them the alike when you're in it so interesting? Actually, because I really work while with my husband
it's a peter sars peter Sarsgaard yeah. We we act as a great actors separately and together. When did you act together? We did two plays together in new york to check off players, and it was like we fought, sometimes for sure It was also like Heaven wait, he's an amazing actor yeah and just to be on stage with him you're like okay, this is going to be fun whatever right. I and also, as you know, I am I it's actually today. Today, I I'm twenty minutes of work away from finishing the first draft of this adaptation of doing of a Fuck and- and I I showed it to my mother as a screenwriter- she was the first processor as well. So was you know the pages where you're twenty minutes twenty minutes of work away truly like, like you know it has at the end on it. You know I'm just a little tinkers before I send it to my producers, but it to her? And I remember heard about my mother that I actually
get along with my mother, notably better when were talking. Bout were ten like at thanks giving fox. Yeah and what she supportive when she say she give you notes yes ice. I gave it two people here to my mother, and I gave it to me hurt saw goes a great playwright edra, who I worked with another project and em. They actually bow gave me the same note, which is. It was just about when this reveal happens and now that I have to put push back, and I thought that was interesting and em and they were both very supportive. I I I've. I dunno know how to I'm like thrilled by by working on this adaptation. Book. It's called the lost daughter. It send alina frontier novel. Is it recent? I wonder when that book came out for anti made like a big splash recent leaves the pen name. Nobody knows who she is on italian author. Do you know who she is? I don't
you don't either no how'd. You get the rights of the book. I am I wrote to her. Sure is knowing that I would really well. I asked her publishers, they read write to write to her room and they would get my letter to her and I spent like, but three weeks, probably writing this letter to fraud taking her hand written note It was like a wax seal now by a guy deliver. I I and she gave me the rights. So that's how I haven't met. What was it about the book? What's it about what made you This cause like in you're, going to write the film producer film and be in the film I'm going to direct at I'm, not just acting. It is it, but is this the first one you've directed yeah? Have you directed you direct any of the deuce? I haven't had you direct your show, what which my own
I am glad of glow. You now know it too. That's a little big for me. I when I did marin, I directed a couple, but I was in every scene. So it's not really the same experience, yeah you're, basically just asking the dps. Is it good Gary goods move off re. Also, I came in I James franco directed the mercies of the do said he would be like in costume here in a direction which is in its train. and he directed how many all due to yeah, because, like you it's hard, but it I it seems to be. I think the key is get the good dp I think that a key anyway yeah right matter, what right, but no, I'm not going to act in this that the person who would play them pardon? It is it's. It's too much a mean to me. I can't imagine doing all of that, but I what is it about ain't? I haven't
I'd have to say what it's about without giving everything away but I'll say what's interesting to me. I wish I gotta figure out, obviously, but am it sam what it would appeal to me about them and also about all of death ferrante, because they're a bunch of novels that kind of came into my life at the same time- and I read them all- someone recommended it read it if all of these books made a big splash couple of years ago and and she writes out. She basically read it and you're thinking, oh my god, this woman I am reading about is so fucked up and then like a second later you're like oh, my god, totally relate to her and then and then you get this feeling of. Maybe this hidden fucked up stuff inside me- is actually a common experience. Especially for women talking about mothering- in about sachs talking about a a feminine?
in the world. I think that there aren't all that many examples of an articulation of something. That's really really real and that's what that's. What made me want to work on the bus? what's interesting I mean, can you do that? You've done that many movies that, like I as a comedian, I I sort of make a living off of sharing my fucked up this right. And that's what I make my living off just now funny when I do it know it, but but it's important because I I don't know what stops like you know in terms of talking, gender! I mean I'd. Imagine that there are certain expectations that everybody has, but there's a culture shame component to to exploring you're fucked up now. and as soon as you, let it out like every summer, People are like, oh my god, thank god, yeah. I feel so much better yeah. I thought I was the only one sitting here in this shit because everyone's so separated and isolated in their own little worlds, and it takes people through a film or through a podcast or whatever, to voice some of that stuff.
yeah and it it really helps in a very deep way. I I agree, and I think that is so often what I'm trying to do. When I'm acting. I I think she and these books, I've read of hers, went further than I you know or if certainly as far as I'd ever seen and inspiring to me and I relief right doubtfully. It's a relief and also, I think, sometimes when you watch someone else doing it or read about another. A the character you get to have a like a little activity You know, and I think it it. It allows a little more empathy yeah. You know you get go like. Oh, I have a little space to look that- and I I you know as opposed to what is happening in your own life- something painful and you're, just sure of it or else like you
if you're one those people is not aware of how you're broke in then you end up just judging people who were broken. The shame way you know with what the fuck is wrong with that person it takes. God knows what to make you go. I dogs, time that yeah yeah, so that at the front ada or I think that you know sometimes that's it- I sort of thing all of us are doing like on the do this, like a group of people who, at that culture is told if the marginalized and pushed to the edge mean I follow stormy daniels on twitter. Sometimes she she always responds to this mean stuff that people I want a general right to her and said: please stop reading it better, and yet I see all this awful stop. People say- and I think they will look, this de humanised group of people who are called the cultures dehumanize dominating. In a lot of ways on the deuce we're going like, but hang out a little bit with an imagined version of this group of people. Can you still dehumanize them? Can you still call them
often name right, I'll, read them off if you see them as human being with that's always been like this word. That creative struggle like get like your baudelaire or or anybody. You know the the poetry of the disenfranchised and the the vice ridden whatever it is that there is a humanity to it that there has. standing that people who were frightened or trying to behave a certain way, don't have you know I was thinking about actually em, my daughter, whose well yeah Peter played her, and why was he playing her queen may because that if he'd seen a documentary about queen, which I guess was coming out because of the movie as though he was playing her of bohemian rhapsody and then he played her. We are the champions which, of course, I'd heard that song, but I was never like that into queen, so at your anyway, I listened to it really carefully, because Peter was playing into her and I was like you know, ramona. The thing is, this is not a.
on being sung by like the head of the football team were whatever this is. This is a guy who is a gay like out. Here in the west, that song written. I don't know early eighties. it seventy is. This is I have to say we are the champions for that perspective. So different than saying we are the champions after you just won your senate race for such a beautiful, oh yeah, oh wow, yeah. That's a good lesson! Yeah so the deuce yeah I mean I, I you. I think you do bring a lot of rawness to that. That part but a lot of strength to the whole thing is kind of eight may vaguely remember new york when it was like that, but weren't. Bore you right now, that's like white. Seventy one, the first season, a seventy one, the second season, a seventy eight here
seventy one eye kind to remember it? Seventy eight, I definitely remember cause. I was taken the bus in from jersey when I visit my grandmother to go, walk around that with I'm seeing Michael college. Maybe freshman year I went to a live sex show cuz. I wanted to know what exactly that was what year is that that had to be like nineteen, eighty, eighty one, eighty all their less like the third seasons. Gonna be eighty two, a hobby ass. Well, like it was. It was sort of like I don't know what season it is, but once they figured out the booth, so it was that second season yeah! He was that thing if you go in and any put these tokens in the thing comes up in just people fucking or whatever they. I don't know what was going on on a rotating table, but there's an awkward nest. Fuel costs cause he hears like those people in there doing whatever they're doing they've got this half semi, circle of faces?
looking in these windows yeah and I'm ever wanted. The woman came up guys. Are you tipping and I'm like a guy get? I guess it. I wasn't really there to do what people do there. I was there to see what the hell it was, but it just seemed so human in accra. and we're yeah yeah yeah, and I read a couple of em out of agrifuels of people who did it You know in the way they describe it and like the sheets were dirtier, you know even things. I come that it's cold. You did it like with there My friends, but I would have to do so. Many shows a day that things are to figure out that they would have to be fair, have to fake a feather cutting cambric gallery, and do it wouldn't be a it, wouldn't be a very a fun thing to watch a guy trying, although very interesting, I get a gm, come on and Larry very that every everyone feel good idea, and I guess I'm just like us if everybody, so what what do you think I like? What do you think
show, because I've watched a bunch of that. I think I watch all the first he's out of old caught up toto in on the second season. What what do you think that David or or you in that sense is? What's the point of it? I that time, white white, what it, what is fascinating, culturally cuz, like you, know, he's a multi level, Simon is yeah, and you know- and I I don't know cause I Don'T- I see the mafia stuff. I see some politics usually there's many tears of civil society operating in his things. What what do you think is his? What's or there is our all the civil staff with the state governments and what's happening with the cops rife, the real estate. They are all good and a lot of hope and whose labour force andrea, who is art of middle management, met how David talks about here and I think in order from well. What is the point of it to me, it has so much to do with sexual politics, and I actually think like transactional sex is, though
so much of what we're all talking about now too, you know What way like in isn't in a way. What we're talking about in terms of well, you give me a blow job. I give you a job, in this movie or whatever, and how and I think it's what I think is really interesting in this is little bit off of the deuce. But is You know, look women, women couldn't vote one hundred years ago, yeah happened late last one hundred years ago and you know actually and mary poppins. I was just watching Mary poppins with my kid and there was something where light I remember the little kids go with their pennies to the bank and the guy from the bank wants their pennies and my daughter was like. Why can't? Why doesn't he want her penny and I was like? I don't think that women could have a bank account right,
This is how you tell her that hadn't. I could be wrong, but I don't know women could even have they couldn't have credit cards, okay, so like without their husbands. So then, how, as a woman, do you get where you need. If you can't make any money right or if there are very few roads open to to make money surf x, becomes a part of that conversation right, sexual, sexual, wiles, how'd. You get a man, whatever all those things that are so our janet, I absolutely isn't contractual sort of ownership trip it used to be a future make money, or so then till I just totally vilify sex workers, and I love how it's called like the oldest proof. in the world and yet it's like so hated, so I think it in some ways the sexual politic, of all of it and how and candy then all of a sudden is she has really big needs. No, she has really big desire. I created and I think, even though not an intellectual. It
in her mind in her hard in every way and em, and what does she supposed to do with that? and what are all of these women supposed to do with that? In? informed me line with interesting to that, like you know, you're, saying in that what we are talking about before is like our prostitutes hated or are they just disregarded, because it's one those things were, if you About the way you're talking about transactional sex, there's very few, I would think there's a lot of people that are in relationships that are not perfect or desirable because of of transactional necessity share right, and I guess I, I guess hookers prostitutes. I I think the thing that that's the the most sad to me is just they're. Not you know they're not accounted where's humans yeah? So I think you said why they hated or are they hear you? I think they're here
Earlier I ve not accounting for them as humans as no hatred, but, but I also think is interesting. David was saying to me. We had an interesting conversation when the first reviews came out for the deuce this season, and they were saying like this is it this is this: in about the women and David? Was in some issue with that and saying it's, it's not actually it's about the interaction, We need the women and the man and the way that they together sort through this broke in element. of our culture, and I think that still true still think like it's something we have agreed to do together. Yes, what? we're backed into a corner when they made the agreement, but like it's together, we're gonna have to change it. May I think of a lot of I agree with him, and I the days in which the men on the show I mean they're, not heroes, I mean who's the hero on it. it's interesting in the how it that it seems that sometimes the prostitutes
are more human to the cops yeah. that. You know that their relationship with these cops, if they know cuz they get busted every other day. You'll have a sort of human understanding of the situation, unlike yo the eye. the johns or even germs franco's cared, whose once removed from it and the pimps, have a very specific thing in a way which is based on fantasy, which is less real. I think they are right. Then the cops relationship where were they like? Ok, we're in jail, is his opportunity of chinese food pre, the exact now he held. This is a great thing. I was an immense in fact, could really for eastern and they understand the than they understand the reality of what of what really going on from all sides the cops do and in it. You know, unlike a lot of the men in the in the rest of the cast, well like what are they selling it's? It's interesting, they're selling, something very real their physical body in the most intimate way physically, along with a fantasy. You know
kill a guide on you, not on purpose. He dies from getting a blow job. I don't think that she can that. Okay, that's true So when you're doing it, I mean how why it was it dumb, because your to sort of like it has a great arc, because you're you're going places by I just watch them Where is your dad? Won't, let you in the house in its rent on very last year, oh my god. Well, you know what I love about. That I'll. Tell you something here. I love! Basically, candy does candy and the first season totally obvious and then a second season is just her. Like way motive. the operandi say it like her way being. She does Have the luxury to feel sorry herself or the beast. Heard even sad. You know like that. is somebody who
it has a little more leeway in terms of their survival. Has the space to go like? Oh, I'm feeling really bad today and you know candied as in half that, and so she gets told no over and over and over and over again in the first phase and she'd you know, gets beat up and she gets the uno. This met this second season, its moral like she's, like I got a great idea. No okay, let me come in at this way. I got another Never falls apart. Right she's, like it's cool, it's cool, I can totally handle this. I can actually handle anything and I started even feeling that way when we were shooting it like. I remember the first season. They were like your candies, always like cool with everything, and so they would make it worse. For me, they'd have a a rat go up my arm, while am giving a blow job in a movie theater and then get hit my head on that you know so many then I get the shit beat out we then this, and I almost felt like we're going for you can appreciate the old and I was like now. I'm not gonna pray, that's your choice, but then, of course, in season when she does break
What gets her off the street for a minute, but in so in season two I just was like I'm never in a break. I'm gonna, like she's, gonna she's, doesn't have the luxury and that review holds that there's so much at stake for her. That reveals that it's life or death right, someone says says you will you like? I don't know, eat this scorpion. or you're gonna die. You eat the scorpion right, hungarian and yet then, at the very end, theirs seen scene with her daddy ho and she's like She can't handle it. Wouldn't you put it like when I thought of asking questions about the character about what, as an actress, Why didn't she? Why wouldn't that character, do something else? What do mean as for job Why, in the beginning wisely I mean like you do do. Did you put in place in your mind for that anything? Well, you mean and like
he's in one year before she finds out that she's a filmmaker here. I think I think some ways, that's a question that a lot of people have asked me, oh really, in a way people are like. Why isn't she You got the money. She's got a nice apartment and be nice enough in ozone that sexually end in general. At that time, just post sixties, there is a different point of view, a about it. I think, culturally, we ve we ve grown to assume from from your people talking and and that that people in porn or in prostitution or somehow find mentally victims where, whereas I I like that, it's not address because you're coming off the sexual revolution, why not that's exactly what I was going to say? I don't think it's as simple as why not yeah, but I think that's how it started yeah. I think, like she came from this really uptight family. She
and she like was like out here with it with a I ain't, no I'd and again and not addressed were how her fathers such a monster, but you do see in the first is that he's basically destroyed her brother, whose you know, and I just think she was like fuck all of this and she's while we are, and I think that it gets then absorbed into survival, and I think she gets pregnant and she had you know, and I think she fines finds that it's so actually like a viable way for her survive and I don't think she has a lot of other skills. Or gels, and I think? Actually, when you meet her in the beginning of season, one she's surviving, but she's kind of dead inside and dry, and I think, that's always an interesting place to start a character. She's dead inside and then by episode, two of season, one she goes and makes her first movie and she's like lit up. Oh my god.
you know it's not the sex. The sex is incidental, worn, she's, making she's here she's like oh. It makes a frame our own there and leg. You put the frame here very well versed in there. You know- and I think she's also, I think, a medicine she's even like- oh my god, we're all made of late You know, I mean I think she's just rosa and then there's no going back and then she's led up and cheese, and I think that's kind of great. That's great yeah, but she she she's a strong character from the beginning, even though she's dead, and so she is, but I think partially being dead inside is what's allowing her to like make her money. Underneath these guys, I mean I was learning about it. I mean you know. The sex workers now will take issue with this. They always have whenever I've said this. But to me it seems like a very difficult,
a hub that requires this association. In order to do no one. Ever I say that in the press I get a lot of tweets from sex workers who say every job takes this association and the sort of weird false equivalence I mean to be honest with you. Neither of us have ever done it, so you know I can't like, but to me it does seem particularly difficult and and when I started to learn about it. You know nineteen seventy one, maybe like six to eight, eight men and night near you know. The lot you think. It's also. It has something to do with right with, while sex workers and and the porn industry and and the prostitution industry has as sort of sought and six it did normalizing itself for a bit, you know survey.
and I think they deserve respect as people and I understand their argument. But I think that when you, depending on how you feel about sex is, is really going to decide how you feel about whether whether it's a job or disassociate really has to go deeper work as we have this idea. That sex mean something other than just a job and it's kind of hard to shake, Well, and also I mean I would Imagine that that sex workers still feel sex mean something in there in relation to the other one where you're like really how to work. Then again, it's also like what about my where job, our, where job, where I can know you could go to work, and you can you know like the scene. Your time with my dad. I can we on they wrong. I gotta go through this whole thing and then it can also does have a relationship with my father, my royal father, a shoe though, and- and I think our job is really weird and eyes. thinking that more and more lately are acting yes
it is weird in in its it well. What else is what's also we're about his eyes argued in I'm not. Obviously, I am not the actor you are, but I've argued to people that think it somehow like especially a right wing, a kind of people like a hollywood types in there. They ve got an easy, its relentless, your job and in whatever they think we're doing it's very tiny. Consuming: it's it's very sort of like it. It can be chore, work yeah. I know it's work for sure it really is sixteen hour days. You know, I mean you're, not you know. You're you're not at adelaide, now know your character, but but it is work. What are you thinking about it in terms of weirdness Why is it dawning on you now. Ha a. Why now I don't know total the answer that I mean just into what is wording I mean, so it's not even so much the labour rights, easy likely, the kindergarten teacher we made in
When he two days I mean so much work. You can't even stop for one second changing my clothes in the bathroom understand now and ferry. You know I mean for real an end and many other. Strangely I says you're and going fur However, many hours a your problem with a budget issue that you shot it like that yeah yeah, I mean yeah. Sure. Of course nobody wants to do that, and yet it does put a trailer on the ferry it makes it have a great no trailers. It makes it have a great feeling and age and energy is because the agency- maybe that too, but it's not that it's not that that bothers me it's I we put it this way. I really just feeling like okay, weird to put on someone else's clothes. Go through. All of these feelings, whether they're sexual or pain, fall or whatever
They are and they're not me and my story and the kind of are mirrored in my story. And then I read this quote my friend sent me after she saw the kindergarten teacher. This an carson quote nearer arson did all these some, these translations of greek tragedy on whose rang by tragedy- and she was basically saying like we're sort of saint talking about this. Before she ways we sang Why do we have tragedies? Why do we watch tragedies and may be comedy is similar in that you're saying like you're, going to the core of what most fucked up here and she says with a little relief involved. that may be even tears are another kind of really right. So she says she says we we we we we mean tragedies because they, basically they expose our rage and our pain. and if you have an actor doing the job of putting it on a stage for you as they go
objectivity, no- can have a normal job than the really cool things. Do I have a happy than do that? That is a description of what are trying to do with some time buying. We I know when I like, I don't know where it's so fun, to put on six entails and hot pants and crazy wig and walked down the street, actually the more fiction, the easier it is no like the kindergarten teacher where it's just me and my hair, and not so different. In morally challenged to a I She is morally challenging way. Candy is not brought just she's, she's she's, really trying to figure out what's wrong, something's wrong, but she misidentifies it experience with poetry in general,.
I, my some of my very, very close friends. My very best girlfriend is a poet that she's a professor at bard, and she sends me her poems very intermittently and and they're like it, takes me awhile to chew on them and think about them. But then they're like a sort of straight line into her mind, which is cool into her mind, and you know her yeah yeah is very, very like deep level conversation that someone, I know really well here. You know me I feel like how are you really know? You're right and I've never been like a really a good reader of poetry. I've never been someone who is moved by every once in a while beer. I moved by it, and I was sort of takes my breath away, but I find it hard. I wonder how the poets define them, like you just had that moment with these, and what's her name and carson, how it that's even more esoteric but like it's all. It's been so essential for us.
long for some reason he had that poetry is like, has been ever since the beginning, and there are these people that are carrying this torch and it must be important to somebody outside of academia. I would think cause I've. I read it. I still have a bunch of poetry I wrote parmesan his younger there. There is an equation element to it that their there there's a weight to solving something with it will because it's almost like a kind of alchemy, like you put a few we're just together in a certain way and it sort of makes this feeling or makes this expression of something, which is why I think it's sort of an interesting plays an interesting role in the movie like. Basically, the movie is about a woman who's, an artist who isn't heard, and why not and what happens when a woman with a vibrant mind, just pushed aside and not heard now. The movie is a kind of thriller horror, roller coaster, version of the answer to that but
and when all reverse revolves around that kid's poetry right. Well, I, I see I don't know. I think it revolves around her unmet me and I think she sees in that kid what she needs to see because she's so hungry and of course she tries to feed herself mean you can't feed yourself. Off of a five year old child a five year old child is supposed to get fed by the girl, I and I wish you would have told my parents that yeah well, but I think that's part of why the movie resonates, because you know like peter used to say in a horror movie like what's the real heart rate, so in in what's the one with them ellen burstyn, where she's the actress super famous horror movie Oh Rio, excesses of the exercise well in away like at the root of that is like this mother, whose ops entering windows or other and that sort of every mother, I'm level and so the feeds into that fear and either you are a mother or you have a mother, and you know
same with, like I'm rosemary baby, you know like or what is this fingering? If I mean that everyone can relate to so here, I think I think every grownup fear of children in ways that They said in an appearance of spirit that I got think that if you get to a point where Ye you're so bitter or so compromised or so hungry for for relevance. Definition that you can end the child right there there's a purity of vision you know that you wish you could have as a grown up? But you know you you can't really so interesting, I mean honestly. Yes, I think that's very, very interesting, and I think envious. Such an interesting part of all of this, because I mean for me, I again a kind of relate this little bit to sexual politics, of that's been on my mind. Right who hears a woman who has not heard gale Garcia burn. All his character gets to decide what poetry is worthwhile and were poetry. Is here?
I I just a guy, that's always the way it is. This is one fucking guy, it's always one fucking guy leading the thing is, I do think it's often one fucking guy in every business, in every situation. Right. Why didn't? The movie go well Joe ray who's. The fuck is Joe he's part of the team. What the fuck is wrong with that guy exactly, but it's just saying it's not as often one fucking woman or a mission in euro, and so I think I think not that that's never the gaze. Of course it is, but this is sort of- think about like what is feminine work and what happens when it isn't hard. So the kids work, I think, there's a way to watch the movie. Don't think it's the way. The movie is actually naturally constructed, there's a way to watch the movie where all of the coming from her were in a way she's. I mean in a really trippy reading of the year. She's actually really just kind of imagining all of this, but also also it could just be
five year olds, say amazing things all the time they do. How who writes it with you write it down and you put this line break or that word, and you put this word: who is the author? Maybe that's just my subjective take on it because I think that would would have to be the characters. Take on that's right, yeah here. So what? What? With your kids like? What if anything is trippy, because, like my brother's got teenagers he's got teenage boy and he's upset right now, because he can't communicate with the kid. And it's like, it's really kind of hurting his feelings liking. Why can I decide can't talk to him? We can't talking and, unlike I think, that's part of it man, you but I mean I mention that parental needs that I don't have kids, but it seems like that. It's a heartbreaking endeavour. I think it s. I do. I think, once you have children, you can't not be heartbroken either cause you miss that thing. Also it does fuck you up it just cracks your mind:
open in an incredible way, but it disorienting way and you're living in that decision. Taken all the time. I d love constant change, missing the old thing can: used about the new thing. You know it's hard core and then just that I would imagine just the pain of empathy watching them all drug or through a special every a chastity for me once day, like avatar, I don't like to talk about my kids, but publicly just cuz. I want to protect to now see a twelve year old, a seventh grade, or I have deep in tat memory values. I'm you know in a way that the pain from when your sex- I don't feel it quite the same way knows, of grade was like one of those like that was a big year, a lot of things and their in seven great over. Well, that's exciting! You keep those channels of communication, open stay on top of that year.
also you're, doing everything for the first time I like mess, you know like how you don't know how to feel you know if it's good or bad or like well. How will the other one six last big picture? Big gap there was adam purpose. Well, I started pretty early, you know and when you know so, in any hurry to do it again and when I first had my daughter, I serve local K. One is good for your own is enough. We really waited until we were ready, woman It's a nice gap because then you'll have like one will be moving on and then you're going to be going through twelve with the other one heartbroken heartbroken, and I you know, face timing. A lot see like you say it's good, though it's productive that at peters, an actor in that you're you're, both in the same racket, You say you I could we're talking about your parents, but you guys work well together is how does that look with actors I mean just at home. I mean, I imagine you don't mean work well together only on
age or whatever, but do you write well, I mean there's the very simple staff of like I'm. So sorry I said we're going to get home to put the royals to bed so that you could be out and The thing you wanted to do, but, like we reading, seen in here and when you coming home. I have no idea here now. I have no idea. They re truly understand there I you know I think yea I first I have a huge amount of artistic respect for him so like if I didn't, on our blessing every hardy. You know because he'd give me some idea. Mr Karas, I asked him about an ex haven't seen any of the stars diamond. I saw that destroys any one, but no just that one is we're both in the same game, but one becomes huge, the other one we just sort of stays. I think right heartbreaking thing, but do you do you approach the the craft in the same way? Oh yeah? I think we do, and I think he had he he's older than me. Seven and honesty is older than me ended, firstly
if god he liked blew my mind with some of the stuff he was saying about acting. I was like oh shit, how he did the number on your it's part of how he did. He also showed me all sorts of cool. Like you know, japanese movie stuff in his bed on the lower east side, he totally did I'd, never seen anything like that or your mind. Never came back yeah, that's right and- and now, though, also we had the same, acting teacher for many years who was like who is that she died at Two years ago, her name's penny Allen. Oh really, where is that new york know here actually she's the most incredible woman and she also ended up being a really like one of my closest friends. She was almost eighty when she died and now her good. Well, let's go back then and come back to this. So how did you start? How did you start acting? I mean with discipline, you know how what was the training college or I acted you in high school. I didn't all these plays and I took it super seriously right and I learned all
could learn. Even though you look back and you're like, I played nurse ratchet at fourteen powerful, alright fast nurse ratchet, but at the time I took it just as seriously as they take my work now, I'm so, as you know, doing things that they went to college and I did plays there. But then, when I was in at columbia, I started to feel like. Would you start either treating less, and I studied English, because I was like waylay, I met colombia. A marine mania should take it since dead and m. I'm so glad I did and fan then I got out a sorry working in it and have allowed a technique and em. When I made secretary, Steve Sheinberg who directed secretary was working with penny Alan and I did power working with how, as a director he was, she was helping consulting, I guess
we're matter. I just once heard her voice on an answering machine where he was like you gotta. Listen to this and she, I guess she'd said something like oh no. Maybe this is just the story he recounted where she was like. So what is the scene pouch? Is this really funny accent, even though she's from boston and he was like. I don't know. Maybe it's about. You know like their interaction or their whatever like getting to the bottom of their connection, and she was like no darling. The scene is about fucking, yeah, as I heard had heard, that story about her and it her funny voice. Sunday answering machine, and then when I met Peter he with her and he introduced me to her and I fell in love with You know she really taught me. She does deserve actor studio technique. What's the event of the scene. Whatever to the event, I can send you a dollar
and why? What are your needs and where are the obstacles to your needs? So the event is the most exciting thing, because the event is basically where you, as an actor, have some artistic say over. What you're doing here are the words of the scene. But what is it about? What do you, what needs to happen in the scene? No matter how it happened, you could laugh through it, you could cry you could do it sitting at her life, but what so they all relate to the conflict or the whatever you want. It's you could have. You could have a very literal event like you could say. Oh these people are saying I, oh I want to buy a sandwich. You could could a swell the event is buying family or what I'm more into is: okay, they're saying they by sandwich, but really this scene as an apology. So you got to sort that out. to create that where you get to have a point of view and run you get to go in to, but I only sort that out a few years ago is that while I'm in your six, what what why likes
have six movies in before you did secretary really like carrying actress like in the background movies. You know that was the one that broke. He wrote, that was the banks. I remember that got a lot of sort of like ooh yeah. No, that was an amazing experience. Artistically castillo chamber was like really interested in what was happening with me. You know not trying to jam his ideas only into the peace, but his ideas, mixed with mine, mixed with james, is, why did this piece come too? I said this moment. You know what is it that I need to work through by doing this movie, you know, and and all of that was a plain secretary- and it was a good deal to go out to risks yeah it right I mean that was you you. I d plot was your boss. There was, what was it that you were? It was a bliksem kind of trick, and it happened organically? It wasn't you weren't doing
going here. No, no, it John. It turn its basically. Basically, it's a love story right between two people who love Egypt in a way that unusual run in a row and that's And I you know- and I mean you Didn'T- have a lot of technique but did did doing that. Could it seems like we were talking about setting a transactional sex about sex in general, I mean how did that at that time boy your mind in terms of of that, this sort of scope of sexuality. Well, let me put it this way so I had just finished college. I was probably twenty two when I made it in and I had been at columbia in ninety nine. Even now, I nine thousand. We shot it and I studying like feminist literary
diseases like reading half of it and they going to the nice. So all that stuff was on my mind. I thought. Ok, I'm coming in to make this from this. I'm an until she wore a feminist. I know what I mean to say, and I say that is not even close to the most interesting stuff. That's happening with me in that movie all the stuff. I didn't have any idea about like a twenty two year old and and learning about, like being a little bit of a and I don't I don't know exactly how that happen, but I mean really the point of all of the lake technique and everything is how do you let your unconscious into your work? How do you just create a space where, what's on your mind, is both consciously and unconsciously in the work right and that happen there we're and then you know you have to be able to ensure that it happens very difficult, the job as the job right. That's right, ha your unconscious going to do what I mean that must come,
a lot of it must come from experience and being comfortable like relaxing into the role and not in not in not assuming that it's not you in a way right. I think it is we are right, and I was thinking that fifty feet or has sometimes at all, I love he's had actually over, like LISA spinelli, the kindergarten teacher that just loved take her out. For the dance he does their girl. You know you're, sorry robe weighing again, but it like it's an. I think it's not just the experience and having I mean, I think yes, having some experience in work, so helpful. I think there's also a You're sort of asking me like there is a craft sitting down and going like what is on my mind. That's part of it. That's within the event. That's it in the event that that's part of it and then there's another part of just
don't know how you do this prayer, like just making space for other stuff to bubble up an and you don't know till later. On. Wow, isn't that happened because looking an exodus of that and it saying this and that I am trying to do the same thing in my writing. Raw you know just sometimes is: let's have come up, and then I relate gleamed, like all kingly wrote that, because luck or yeah pages later, this thing has to happen and writings, because you really don't know why you know, though, like as you're in it, you were things or reveal to you and it's a solitary trip, whereas reacting You know you got whoever you're dealing with here and now you can surprise self in a moment, but it might not have anything to do with you yeah right there it sort of all I kind of like louth that kind of like, and I think it always has to do this you even at, but I I have been like total but is interaction that I'm so used to, like you in fact,
That is what you are you you know you're like trained. I trained to like interac right, that's how we work and even like okay you're, the director kate, I'm going to what are you going to give me and how am I Also gonna make sure I have the space I need to do it. I need to do right in all. Directors are different and all directors are different, and so then it's like this constant exercise and interacting people, but the pleasure of just sitting. I myself at my desk, going the speed I want to go at like taking my time not having to negotiate with very right, so amazing that I went to. I was just going to say this thing about being trained to interact. You're like okay you're, I have work do the scene for four hours. That's it I'm going to meet you right now. What's up, and I there was this thing in new york recently that was like this opera. And then it was on the high line yeah and you just walked down the hall high line and all these singers and actors in this really trippy way, we're kind of like looking at you and singing these things and thousands of them, and
both Peter and I and then my brother went another day and he said the same thing. It was super intense for me because I kept feeling like I had to like act like certain meet each of them for and like after, like one hundred of them. The shell out what will you do? It was like sort of like weird professional courtesy like you were used to agree. I once said I am going to convene an they ve got three line. You're like I'm, be right here with your exhausted hundreds alive. You made it through a hundred I found. I was fighting with myself the whole time not to just like There must have been the one day that every singing act or new york works, they all got a gig for go few that went on for so you got the event You got your needs and and then what
then. Yes, sir, you they say it's an apology and they are talking about sandwiches. Then what do you need is for you gotta learn how to figure that out. Yes- and that is like that exciting. That's one of the most exciting artistic things, as the director no matter how the director never forget good. Alright, even though- and I still fuck the software like this, such great idea just totally have to tell them and they always get freaked out. They do. Oh yeah, always can't just do. Your work is highly. I really chippy things and there foreign from talking directors. A lot of them are like they hire you d, be deep. Does you got the part frank here they did just do wait you're. Eighteen, I hired you for a reason. Don't bother me with that yeah I say: don't ever give anyone a chance to tell you know yeah cause people like, Do that. I think we just do it and if they go, I cut, can you make an adjustment, yeah, okay and then every once in a while. The things that they want you to adjust are so exciting
yeah. That's really good yeah yeah, so you have you learned a lot from directors mean having into this. This this proud You're doing a mean who are the ones an impact on because you work with a lot of. I don't even know you work with John sales in that it must have been kindly trip. I have learned a lot from directors that mean one thing. I one thing I noticed when I was pretending to be a direct, you're on tv play candy and was there'd be times where seems to be written and she'd, be sort of a little sort of snarky with actors get irritated and stuff, and I I always took those same lines and made her kind, because I think candy, me, she has she's been naked, lying on the right yeah that I've seen I've seen that choice I think is that in the shy always do it unless there's this one guy, this one character is such a mother fucker at the end she's just like I'm sorry, but you need to get
fuck out of here. You know and that's fine too. I mean, of course, you're, not just gimme. Your walked all over, but I believe that kind. This really gets you somewhere with actors, and I I think I remember him scott cooper once who died it crazy heart. Oh the air you got nominated for that, that'd be that'd, be great and that that's a cool movie thanks. I like him Jeff bridges cooper- oh yeah, Jeff bridges like it's just like he's he's such a like a kind of like a he's like a whole hippie, yeah, just his grey of interviews, rivers. We regret, and I think I got married. I asked him to host the screening of the kindergarten teacher recently and he was like nope can't do but here's a video of my buddhist teacher, I the guy, was thoroughly and any with wearing a red ray and salute. You are the greatest eat your work here and what its got everything,
I cooper one day and we were just getting to know each other and were was just like. I was standing outside a motel room door and we did a couple of takes and he just comes over to me and he just cause. I I love you and I was like yeah great yeah. Ok, you know it just it does help to be loved. Yeah sure does does every way, and I so I I don't understand holding from actors. I also I know from my own experience like I don't understand what good it does till a jam. Your idea to somebody wrote, I think, like oh, I worked em just on a reading with some MIKE Nichols, oh really, and after one of our rehearsals really the only note he gave me. I was playing marie curie, the physicists and he was like she's feral but he was the best known I've ever got in my life because
basically, what he's saying is you cannot go too far like anything that that means to you? I have just given you permission to do it or and and what happened to that project, play. I was a poor who is a play and it was we just be performed at lincoln centre as a result rating, oh yeah. It was cool it an amazing night. Actually It was here. We have shy. Bros in it bell camp was in it. Moran he's like all over right now. bill. Can it's true he's one of those geysers like where's this guy been and how was he in everything? I knew him when I say he we did theater cats, theatre people know these people yeah. We did I'm a homebody kabul. This amazing tony kushner's play together twice yeah here in l, a and then also in new york. So I knew him when I was twenty three wow, so kushner that must be a formidable guy to work.
he's amazing yeah. I mean I saw angels and I saw the musical I'm trying to think of. I saw a homebody, a carolina change. I loved me too. Why did where to go? Why dunmore I loved it. I think they should do it now. Yeah it's gone by. I listen to that musical. Some time, though, great. I loved it. Such a sharp guy right I mean indeed did make that like to make that musical, so deep and like it did something that other musicals don't do right. I don't see a lot of musical dot, lys cuz. I end up crying for no reason which is not terrible, but I don't see a lot of them when there's a lot of people singing I get we're deceived this release. It's it's one of those things where it's like. I don't have the courage to yet singing is so vulnerable. I did it. I did I sing for one night at a.
On broadway last year, almost a ye almost a year ago, they, the roundabout, does a fundraiser and they did damn yankees like an old fashioned and they asked me to play lola and I was like I, I wonder if they ever. miss Meng. I do think okay yeah! Well, that's all you need a musical. I don't know, but I I I actually. I have never had more fun on stage in my entire life is amazing, scary at first well, it was then they did about a week of her soul, but I, for two months before hand worked. I must spend ten thousand dollars on singing lessons marketing the debris lag behind in vain it out. I worked so much. Energy also is re when penny died says I kind of like a mist. Might a teacher. I five went to this woman all time and I learned them so much and then, when it came
to the day to do it. Yeah. I remember I felt this switch in my brain or I was like. Oh I'm gonna do this to how I do all my acting. Alright, I'm not going to like do it in some, not like. I was ever going to be like musical, but to try to have to be perfect or to try to have to like hit everything, and dancing with like with like beautiful chorus. Boys are killing you and, and and- and I flipped it in my head- started listening to something like beyond say, Cardi b I was like oh she's, a sex goddess, this woman, I'm playing like. Let me get a little and and also my brother, wrote me a text cause. My brother really actually is an incredible singer and I actually think my brother actually is like what musicals need what his world is telling me do it. He just did sunday in the park with george, and he was amazing yeah, but he's a different.
Level of talent than me and not in that or in this form, but anyway he roaming this tax rate before where he said like why? Why do we do this part of why we do this is for the terror and I'm like, and can you what'd he say like? Can you take all that joy, yeah and then I remember, I was like okay, either If this is going to be literally the most horrible two hours of my life, it's going to be the same as like holding on by your fingernails to the edge of a cliff or I'm just going to fucking. Do it and I did, and it was I have had high of that for weeks really, and I was far from perfect right, but I was like- and I literally daydreamed about it for weeks, always have that great. Can you take all that joy, yeah? That's a good question in general, I have a joy, a very
Really you dislike, it seems I feel like is a vulnerability element to it like I can be pretty open and pretty vulnerable and in a conversational way and be myself, but I think part of being myself is sort of fending off joys of well. If want joy. You have to take the terror, I mean, I think, that's what saying we re, I'm terrified, I'm so scared, but I'm putting myself in this position where there is the possibility of a great terror and great joy once that is done, stage yeah, but I mean a musical- is just a vehicle for georgia, Emily grape juice, its wide open and tear you. Of course, I mean writer areas in the world, an easy dancing in front of people. I mean cohesion and that I think that's true of life till I get terrified. Sometimes it's like, I believe we all do, and If you like, get all tight and push it away, you don't get the joy, I know I gotta I gotta, I gotta knock it tight,
I mean you know, and then you do, and then you remember just what a little joy and yeah cause I just start like any. If joy gets in me, I just get start crying a little bit really. I feel it yeah, even if, happy. I think that's why I have that response musical, I'm like stifling loud caroline or change, though, to go back to the tonio sure I remember seeing an early reading of it and this friend of mine who works with tony kushner. A lot was sitting next to me and like early on. There was this line. My father was a clarinet and then he says my father played the clarinet. and something about their poetry. I just like started sobbing friend, who had seen an earlier reading of the place you just like handed me a tissue, when this kind of knowing way like get ready. This whole music goes into me. So so you just took the penny kind of like
she was always. Therefore, you like, we do you use or on every move. We kind of data is after a while. I started using on every one of the first now and you know it happened just to clarify your your instincts primarily or I would say there is probably a period where I didn't. Even let myself have my instincts as like. Just tell me how to do it, you tell me how to do it and I'll write it down here, but then, of course, which that mean I stood up Do it. You know my own way, but when we really went deep penny in me with them pending, I was when she her husband's was out between us partner for many years his teacher and super sec for a long time and m penny, and I were starting to work on the honourable woman out the many thursday devices eight hours night, ro worked on something that long before we're just staring and work on it just getting into it and all her one day, just not there
my own, and I call her house, and she says that her husband had just I and I was like ok will. Obviously we won't work and she said all I wanna do is work, and so we see spoke almost every day for awhile work on this aid, our long peace when her husband just died and that's when she- and I just like, if I understood her in a different way, I got my own voice and she was working through her morning. So the amounts That was the big shift for you and for me I was, I think I was thirty five and I felt like and that's when I learned how to work, how to work yeah. How did like do the work yeah? I learned on that project and the work since then is way better yeah. You can see it yeah. You can feel it yeah, that's great yeah, yeah and yeah. It seems like everything's going pretty good for you.
yeah. I feel I feel so grateful lately. This thing that you're writing that you have? Twenty more minutes to ride on what's the arc of of the woods, I might add that then you gotta attach somebody an actress in there. I think that's what I'll do I'll go out. You know I'm sure the script will need a little more work. That'll be interest, two? Have you already been thinking about people? I have been thinking about people which is such an interesting thing as a fellow actress right reckon, you probably know them and you're like she could do that. I love them and then there's this really interesting thing which I'm fascinated by, which is this combination of admiration and envy, are right, like you're going to cast this person you're, not doing it and one I would not want to do, and I did it. I get alzheimer like just in general, the people, I most admire. I also to be totally honest, sometimes feel a little envied towards like
I mean I I don't say who I think if we really but allowed or prevent another like in general, or that it is just that the actresses, who I think are phenomenal because, again of your generous of my generation and also a little older, because the characters you know probably should build a round. Fifty maybe lay forty than I'm forty, four. What margaret turned forty one tomorrow happy birthday. Thank you, but I'm says, may be slightly older, but you know the thing talking about about not sort of jamming my ideas down someone's throat but working with an actress who I feel so much respect for that. I am fascinated to see let me gregg, found brain also comes with it. Probably a little bit of envy shirt fell and then also, I think I like that terror. In that joy thing I mean to be in the director's seat and a half to sort of like know the other side of it so well yeah and then have to sort of find a way to work with whoever this amazing person.
gonna put in it, but I will say: I've shadowed some directors on the deuce and I could watch actors acting all day. I mean there are things I find boring. I don't like watching bad, acting without being able to help them say something interesting to them, but but actors even struggling, hitters cause god we're struggling to entire most confident bunch, but have it a you know, like you, moved through sitting watching someone struggle through something and land somewhere different than they thought, and I could watch it all day. I love it. I love it. Yeah every take real. You can just you. Can you just yeah yeah yeah, who are some of the directors your phone over there outta breath sweat, who is also a dp, so that was interesting per cent to shadow because I think the thing I know least about her lenses.
I didn't officially shadow Michelle maclaren, but I I did sort of unofficially shadow, her she directed on the first season, the first and the last episode and I'm fascinated by her and her work. I think she's, like a sort of she, was directing these huge tv projects at a time when, like it, was really pretty much closed door for most women and watching the way she kind of maneuvers, with all of that
the funds that was really interesting and what about houses like you, europe, your closer your brother and you I could do. Does he do you guys talk about acting yeah yeah? How about acting in? Oh, I find how much what's yours difference. Three years, I'm three years older and my brother a two week about acting like after we ve seen each others were right or even like kind of her. Yes, p thing like I was like. I know, I'm ever seeing him on the street, where, he was like. I am just so uninspired are not going well and I was like you need to do sunday in the park with george. I know he was thinking about it. I was like do under that worm. How did I miss it? How many months it was? It was short and they only meant for it to be short, but it was last winter right
just saw the movie he did with Paul and Zoe. Oh, I saw that yeah. I liked it a lot yeah me too. He was great. Now he was great in it. Yeah yeah, I agree. Showed up for work and didn't you like a it's. Like those characters where you're expecting something horrible to happen, and it's not they're, not really that horrible. You know like he just had prob, homes, but you know he just didn't know what was going on. There was a menace to it that there is an edge to it and he produced it. Yeah yeah his company. Well! Well: good luck with it! Thank you. It's great talking to you yeah great talking to you too. We feel good yeah, alright catch. as that was great. I love talking to her go watch. The kindergarten teacher watched the deuce, the the teachers, are netflix. I think a deuce is on whatever cable. It's on h, b, o is it and boulder colorado tickets go on sale for my march, twenty four show tomorrow
The link is a wtf pod, dot com. Okay, alright I'll play a little guitar, you might wreck. You might hear that I've been listening to too much beastie boys
We are living I am.
Transcript generated on 2022-07-17.