« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 983 - Steve Coogan

2019-01-06 | 🔗
When Steve Coogan realized he was good at doing impressions, he also realized it was a really good way to get attention. But Steve also knew he had to deliver beyond the impressions if he wanted to get funnier. Steve talks with Marc about that evolution, with some help from "Michael Caine," "Sean Connery," and others. Plus, Steve explains how his new Alan Partridge series will force the beloved presenter to adapt to a changing world, how his new movie Stan and Ollie is really a love story about comedy, and how he became friends with his co-star John C. Reilly much the same way the real Stan and Ollie did. This episode is sponsored by Tigtone on Adult Swim, SimpliSafe and the New York Times Crossword App.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
All right. Let's do this. How are you at the fuckers what the fuck bodies, what the fuck an ex what's happening, our mark marin. Here you back at work how's. It going I know right right, you get relaxed, sort of into a different time. Since you can do it. friend grew he kind of that. Get grounded and who you are in your eye. Generally in the world and now you're back your boy. back at work. Making the ass men too in the mountain of emails. Everything alright you can be okay today, just hang in there. You know this is life, we're all excited right, y'all got pretty excited now or what seven days into it and I dunno why we our selves every year. Maybe maybe
just the ritual. Maybe we actually know in our hearts that yelling it'd be a little better, might be a sign posts of some kind, but really just another day and now we're a week into a tender we're back we're back at it. Maybe you took that time. think about what would it be like if I didn't have to work, I think out that all the time I am constantly work in and I don't know how to really not work. Because I don't know about you, but I get about ten days away and then it's just a exist essential whirlpool of possibilities, none of them good, but welcome back welcome back to work folks, have added today. Steve Coogan is on the show great gas, great guy and great movies, and actually standing ali with it. Steve playing stan laurel and john c reilly playing oliver hardy, I loved it fuckin love that movie, I will
recommend that I recommend that movie. I will and I am recommending the movie stand in Ali talk Before I bring a mind, I certainly will talk about it with the with steve. I just thought it was a beautiful little film really well I didn't just beautifully shot and I don't know man. May I maybe I'm getting soft. I don't know I just found it very touching, maybe as a performer as somebody in the business marginally, I found a then ali to be a tremendous movie, So I had bunch of movies. Because an interview I'm working on in some of these movies were difficult movies and in- and I am not I'm not a close I did person and it's interesting to do not a close minded person, you know, because when you're not close minded when you're open minded, you may have resistance to things. But you know the thing is, is if you let things in because
open minded and you're curious and you're interested, and you reserve judgment until process at the ear. You have a four, show intellectual and spiritual life. I believe, because you, take a lot of things in and you can sort of yolk things and feel things different things and decide. You know who you are in relation to them and what's you know, what's good for you and what's not good for you and how do you accept other people, and you know like, there are things that are difficult and I just think that open minded is stronger position. But it is interesting that that, with that comes a certain amount of insecurity in the sense that too, I guess apple. Is I am watching some early films by a yard or latham most in. I e probably should talk about this I give you the interview, but it's on my mind. and I d as we do some worthwhile, I'm watching so
this films and watching an early one, and I do not understand it. I dont know what the fuck is happening. I do not. I know that there is intent in it that dead, that was designed to it, but it's not making sounds to me and it's provocative, but it's disturbing and it's not a it's not. a story, and I mean I'm getting frustrated in its taking me days to get through a movie and I you know I'm just but I'm open, and I want to understand- and I want to I to know what what is trying, be communicated to me or what the effect is supposed to be an m over thinking it obviously, but the thing noticed about myself. Is that if I don't understand a movie or for something is to challenging, creatively like if it's an art film and I'm not getting it. I rarely if ever blame the movie I We think like what that. Why don't I fucking get this? What is that? What is wrong of me- and I sometimes it's just it just supposed to go in sometimes art- is
supposed to go in and roll around in your brain. A little bit may not make any sense whatsoever, but you never know what it's going to start in your brain. You never know what it's going to tumble or trigger, or or more fin to were how it's gonna pot back at your and how it's going to resonate or how it changes the way you see things and you gotta, let that happen going to hurt you. especially if you don't get it and it's not expecting anything from you. But my point: I always think that I'm, the idiot you you watch a movie you're like ah fuck. What was that fucking idiot, and then I realize well, maybe that's what art supposed to do. Maybe you're supposed to walk away gone like I'm a fucking, moron and then think about it for the next few years and on and off for the Decade after that and one day, you'll be like that's just like that dang in that movie, I didn't get the movie, but now like see now, I'm looking at life a little differently, but it took ten years so keep an open mind for fascinates me about clothes. Minded people speak,
in reaction to what's going on politically is most open mind people can can weigh things and process things based on their own experience. You know and their own willingness to be a and engage in a bigger world so they have more foundation to to understand. Who they are and who other people are who they in in in what the world looks like and what is coming. no one is, and I believe that to be true. So I, chronically. You open minded people, are in a stronger position, because it is me just me how easy it is with clothes people how easily manipulated they are and how easily mind fuck they are and how easily misled they are and they think they're right. they are the most vulnerable, mush brain. People that I can even conceive energy and they lock into it, because you know belief offers them a portal into being connected to.
Something bigger than themselves that data eel. If it's beaks to their anger there on board, no matter how wrong it is an that's. What happens that cause? The open minded thing: if you're open minded person, you can weigh things and processing and somewhat to see the difference between right and wrong and moral and immoral on a human level if you're close minded. If somebody just pops out brain open, they dump a bunch of angry shit in there. fully on board with a whole fuckin ideology, so close the people are much more vulnerable to being mine, fucked than open minded people, and I think in that balance you lies future of fucking, humanity, The wall. The law what a ridiculous fucking it's literally. This is it. This is like some sort of
strange last stand of a particular. I of ideology may well, may not the wall. Build the wall between you and your neighbors between you and your higher mind, but what the case. This is the fight of the day. And I kind of hope I didn't you know. I'd I'd. I certainly don't want the the Democrats to cave good. God knows, there's a lot of different things. You can do a five billion dollars at a more proactive. Obviously, immigration has to be reckoned with, but that's not the point. The point is, I hope that this guy, I hope that king baby gets his way, find his money you see, I hope he just figures out a way that we eat, whether we agree with it or not. He gets it and I hope for the wall is that it just gets half built maybe not even half, maybe a third belt, because I think that all trump wants as a legacy is something bill
because, as a rogue, a chance at his legacy is just going to be infamy and contempt and shame thrive that being the builder that he is unwilling to take care of his contracting buddies yeah. You want to get something up there, can put his name on that's the wall. That's the trump was that mother fucker, he did it, he did it. I just hope that he he get started and then did just craps out it doesn't get, done and then, like years later, when you, everybody is turned on him, except for the thirty five percent of the minded mind. Fucked minions,. they'll never go away, but history does not to who tyrants in in a positive way. I think really speaking, except for a small contingent of people. I just hope that wall just becomes is weird. Monument to failure.
and shame and humor. I just hope that it's its in the future, the half wall, the famous half trump wall, people travel miles to see just this war it just stops somewhere down at the bottom of texas, and there's ways are kids. Yet we had this mad man was president, and he had this big idea, but he didn't. follow through with a laugh and am mommy He he died in prison, yet the story upright learn about in school. You wouldn't have if he was present in it with success. But you will now so this is just this was going a bigger wall, to go all the way across the whole bottom of the united states nooses. This it'll peace he up here hold my hand, take a few steps. mexico. Now not take a few steps back. We're back in united states reads a big silly wall it's funny he's a funny man. I don't know if I'd say that this just didn't get done
now it's just a monument to a horrible dark time in our country. Come back from mexico to step back over here, so Steve, coogan Is very funny man very bright man and I've been yeah. I I've always liked his work. I was glad I had a chance to talk to him, but I do want to talk up this movie a little bit because I haven't been hearing much about it. I don't know I imagine some people have seen it, but it's a lovely touching movie about the the sort of towards the end of the careers of laurel and hardy and in my generation we we watched prize, got, cdm on t v when we were younger, I remember in new jersey there was a station that ran laurel and hardy my grandfather level around thirty, but we all certainly have a, sure of laurel and hardy. Most of us have seen their bits before, but they're just sort of like these old timey guys who did a thing?
but this movie, like it's very hard to do a bio pic in general, because you have a point of reference, but we don't really have a point of reference other than those old black and white movies for laurel and hardy and and they they did seem somewhat, one dimensional in what steve Coogan did in John c Reilly did was really create, stand marlon over hardy from the inside, and these are, I guess, I'm I'm sympathetic to it. it's such a me, because this is a desperate times in their careers where they they wound up broke because of bad. Doctrine deals near your sort of forced to tourism live in europe and they were already past their prime and you're, just a car stations, in the reality of being on the road and having a partnership and it's a real it's it's a beautiful movie about friendship in it. Is it's also a love story in a way, not a platonic love story, but but the way that they just inhabited these men It was really stunning and it was shot stunning and it was just to shop beautifully and eight I found it to be
touching and very moving, and they did they both did oscar worthy performances. So I just highly recommend the film and I'll talk to Steve I about other things, because the film does open. What's its playing now in new york and california. across the world, The country on Friday January eighteenth, it's called stan and ollie, and this is me talking to eve, coogan, so weak. So that's the cottages you may house just a house right next to my man house, just outside brighton. I know nothing about brighton. Is that nice? It's where all the mods and the rockers had fights on the beach in the nineteen sixties, I've ever seen for the ga. So it's a beach house. It was no it's back from the beach it's like cottage. We have lots of old, old building old buildings,
is it like renovated? Is it like yeah I mean did that is the area Ben is like it or it's brightness? brighton used to be the place where people would go for. Does he weekends in the nineteenth century, our ok I have no sense of england in every time I have somebody in here from england. I seem to me to history of england yeah well, it's been going. The thing about american history is like two hundred and fifty years old suffered. So everybody knows it like back to front and just goes over and over and over again yeah, but ours is a little longer and it gets muddier and muddier the further back. You go see everyone. Nobody knows all of it. They just know little bits here and there right right and you can always. You can always be surprised when they tells you something about it king or or a piece of property or ill or how I didn't know that yeah. I hear everyone's like so steeped in the in american history. The note if they don't know a part of it they get like a rap on the knuckles dog. I I wish I wish people were as educated as you're you're, giving them credit, for it seems that here the history gets erased daily
already written yeah completely so went so you grew up where it where what part I got a in manchester and the north, oh yeah, so industrial, it was australia electric cars, like a kind of I think I can pretty much desolate chicago yeah lots of irish diaspora people that I'm haifa. You know irish, so I, like also one of your folks, is full irish. My mom grew up in ireland during the war. She was sent back that she was actually born in england, but I'm mom and dad were like why I called bog irish, yet super poor irish here Everybody left island that those network, the ireland that threats facing the country was dying, yeah, yeah, with alleging that populations is population, since the famine in ireland was going down the aisle eighties. there's only like ten people there now crazy. Yeah yeah yeah the whole country, it was shrinking and then it went back up anyway. My my mom's parents came over to england and ninety thirties and she, send it back during the war
so so yeah, I'm a ma'am, I'm on my dad's side, for the back is irish, so Iowa's So, even though I grew up in the north yeah, there's a bunch of irish catholic diaspora that kind of naturalized area of irish catholics right next to the jerry manchester? manchester, really the other amendment like chicken compared to chicago Riyadh, astral town. It was gonna gritted little too, thirty, but is kind of gone beyond that nice, like a post, industrial town, I get so light. So there was a jewish ghetto. There too, the jazz yeah. This is like a jewish area. Oh yes, right next to the the irish catholic area, how'd you how'd. They get on hurry, didn't really the day they lived in the soviet side by side. We didn't hang out, but we didn't fight. Wherever I wake, were they orthodox user? Just right, you are dreaded pretty author, oh really, I pretty, I know no regular jews them. They. They would assimilate mob and write the other duck
in canada, is an enclave, so yeah yeah and there's and there's lots of you know. Britain has a pretty. You know a pretty diverse history of accommodating people of different yeah yeah. Having said that, you know the irish did have their own. You know there was a. They three signs on doors that said no blacks, no dogs? No irish avoid ws I mean that's, they don't do that any more, but they did one yeah. I mean I talked to cleese John cleese, you know and it it sort of seemed like that. The irish were sort of they took the brunt of the the the humor and they neighbor. They were always ostracized sure they were yeah and it was and it was okay, I mean he had growing up when I was growing up. It was alright till irish jokes, but but but but this I mean funny enough. I Because of the terrorism in the will and that the nationalist movement and right now, no, I mean not to turn back in the diamond. I re was the idea. I mean that was really quite that then of his, like you're, a social price, the whipping
england, pressing for the irish. If, yes, yes carry a car, I and iD d if, just if your irish, because you might be a terrorist and seemed so crazy love his way back in the day and wine would tell you what is happening now with muslims emmi. These your axiom thing is happening. Sure I mean, but now of course, it's cool to be irish. Every pub claims to be irish, and then there are not enough irish people in the world. I think to justify the number irish pubs, but, but it's Where does not? Even a hundred years ago that history, where they what it's crazy. I know it's it's funny. I had. I mean in ireland I have two sides of my family on my. that side of the family? I had to hit his brother was wealth in and they were targeted at one point by the right areas to kidnap rich people. Oh yeah, I raised money from the kidnapping, the ransom by arms. Right
and on the other side of island, my mom side of the families, actually the iron ready with people who supports their. I, who were all who were kidnapped being the same people that will targets in my dad's brothers, and that was two sides of my family and who had connections to a different eyes of your own. It was still felt like it set up freezing and that's how my parents met diego back there I mean like it with all the time, I'm india print pretty regular at me. I could I ruined and I feel like some weird connection to an armful on. You know, ask analogy jew and I can understand what my connection is, but I go there and am I I want to live here. oh for what is it when you grow up anyway, if you're from oil, and it gives you a kind of an entire stabbing fervour. That means that you don't for example, growing up, british and I and I supported the england football team is her, but we were always liked. You note the don't forget the british screw, the irish big time for ever,
forever and and and so we never quite bought the well flag waving. We expect the royal family yeah. We were kind of slightly bolshevik but kind of like they should take them all into the salah and yeah. The only thing was that my mom and dad saved the the queens okay. She earns as for the rest of them, they can get rid of them. The evergreen, the queens, like nine hundred years old she's, always been there. It's weird that they don't its reverend sir just sort of amazement that that this queen has lasted so well longer the victoria or any of those I mean. Yet you kind of it's kind of like your entire life that that's been the queen yeah, of course It's a hermit yeah. No one says his. No! I don't think I was old enough to remember someone saying his majesty, her majesty yeah and it's going to happen eventually sure sure is there, but I think I would think by that time. No one would give a shit. Well, you know it's like he keeps it. I mean forever. They were saying the end of the royal family into them, and diana died with him yeah. But you know people love that just
than the british suckers for wooden array, often depressing about them, the vicious alot swathes of the working class want to be told what to do and just want to doff their cap yeah and say and say. I don't want to be, and I dont want to empower myself. I want that guy to be in charge and tell me what to do that's doug into the culture, I'd that his army, some aspects that women gloves love em the whole union movement start in the north of england. Very proud of that we are a diffidence and a kind of up an opposition to establish here is to show right. But but if that was the case, then we'd have a radical government and the fact is that we have enough to do. We have kind of fun very up. Services with a small c government is really the end of the day. It doesn't matter how many people are bang on the table. Is this too many people who had just kind of roll over and say yea? Ok, just you know it's weird thing:
No, because we don't like in this country, there's not a lot of conversation about class because they they just hide it. They subvert the I the whole idea there's a lower middle or opera glass, but in its sort of established in in Britain, because here it seems, people that don't have a lot they're they're they're either angry or they think it's only a matter of time before they get. I know I know that this is the. This is the big difference I think between the british and the americans, and it's it's the fact that they're not class obsessed and that it's a Well, it's saw there's good and bad and both are terrible. As in the uk we don't measure success by the size. You bank balance right, but that means we. I'll have snobbery like if we think even if you have a lot of money and when people can look down their nose at you sure if you didn't, if you're, not bread, if you're not,
right right and get it through the family oriented and gave rise? You got bad taste wreck, then you you ought to go to hell containing, whereas in the u s that doesn't matter, if you made money, that's it you ve arrived, you want, and that also means like. If you made money and your horrible person, it doesn't matter you can you may resident yeah exactly so. It's fine, so there's a lack of snobbery in that, but it also means that you can have assholes that do very well, or I would get. The lack of snobbery is is, is essentially what's killing us culturally right now, because of this fucking monster office, I mean he's the he's one of those guys that was in never felt like he was accepted by the people that had the money and he had money. So it's he. He is the exact example of why snobs that's his whole platform. It's like the elites. I know I know I know, and I know have to talk. We can solve that problem. So you grew up what I imagined catholic yeah yeah
yeah I grew up. I did, and I did a movie about that called Filomena about five years ago. I saw the editor right. Yeah yeah I mean yeah, so I grew up catholic but- and I- and that was my kind of way of talking about that touching movie that would that yeah. I forgot yes yeah. I I have a cuddle. I I don't just does a lot of stuff. Screwed sexuality, never like repressed say right, hello. He I was there, I will now. I have a theory about that. I really think that that that in neighborhoods I think that some mothers saw that their sons work. Word hetty, that way push them into the priesthood. To save from my life. I think you're right and I think some of the thought hey. You know and I think some guys themselves will I I have these dark thoughts. He I've I'm a priest, a logo away. I think I shall yet- and I had to say for all a kind of horror stories
if there are, that, are that there are there are- and this is what filomena was about. There are some decent people, not normally the people in charge, the foot, the the people by the bass who just trying to live a decent life and trying to be trying to do good stuff, quietly service, just service tat. Evil was people of simple faith, I'm not religious, I'm an atheist, but but I respect those simple those people symbol, faith who just do try to do the right thing will that I've found in specially the catholic church and ends in a lot of those religious institutions in general. It gets the point where they, the only ones doing it The government must support. You know that you're going to show up show Has someone ever article saying what I read some article about hey, you know those guys that help out at soup, kitchens and stuff like that or not liberal intellectuals, yeah people who are actually kind of helping people by giving them
and then those some people are and some ways socially conservative. Some of them might be believe thai gay marriage sure. So it that's kind of your war higher. Second, you, like those people, I'm saying that it's it's a lot of the people who might be not socially progressive, quietly do decent stuff for, for some, you know for, for, for, for people on the kind of classes as the basis don't ask in omega in there. But that's part of the benefit of of of having a sort of faith. Is that the idea of Selflessness is rewarded I mean it it it's it's part of being human. You know you have to train yourself, the do it, but I there is a benefit to it. Wherever yeah yeah. I know it's, but it's kind of learned behavior. I think that's certainly not for me, and I would like to announce it's kind of weird. I would like to just go off and have a good time the autumn, We just like you know they will join as a living- is easy with eyes closed yeah.
go off and just have a good time and have a head in this big time yeah, but then it's like you know anything, it's I, but I think when you're there is a thing of herself as she races and if you're as a catechism of the catholic guilt, he asked them that you feel I feel like I have to at the end of the day. You know the the crappy stuff here is like a line of cocaine and the the goods, It's like a nourishing meal right. The the line of cocaine might seem like a good idea at the time, yeah putting don't didn't, get nourishment from it. Ultimately, unless you do, the line of cocaine then go to feed the guys at the soup, kitchen yeah or, if you're like how pablo escobar and you sell the cocaine and use the money to buy a nourishing meal for your family like her right when, but did you like, where you put was the fear of god anywhere? Is there a point in your life where you're, like I'm done with this or yeah I mean, I think it was super religiously I mean I I've got to go to
if you know I mean I was forced to go to church, you got a lot of siblings. Do you have the yeah I've got? I've got to four brought for four brothers, two sisters, they've all got kids. I got twenty five nephews and nieces wow. We are a kind of, but where ex bagginess some people m. Some people don't think it's all be other people, I would say once a devout sounds like a weird thing that just that, just that they are all liberal, even the ones that are catholic of their letter, a liberal and a natural fighter, and we all We have different opinions were abroad, church, even the family we get together and we love each other, but those who drive each other nuts score. That's like a normal. yeah marginally dysfunctional family sets up like the whole world here, but but I know that but said There is a thing I was raised, a kind of so illustration. My my my my Jesus, was a socialist right. You know he hung out with the paw and he hung out with the the the the the
criminals in the process that that's the progressive line and yes, exactly yeah yeah and then this, but then you get some people. What I find amazing is particularly in america year is the people who managed conflate christianity with cash, yet I said I me they'll Jesus wanted us to make lots of money. I'm, like I don't remember, reading them. I really don't interpretation system interpretation testing the super church doing christian deeds, it's christianity for means of personal and power. Now it's it's! It's crazy it's a racket there may is how you will just so you can. I just honesty. With this whole faintness we're living in an era where you know you could I could show I'm holding a white mug heavy lovely team. For me, the therapy I would say you, you know you think that mugs right, but you know it's, it's kind of black and white
may I go I've been doing to bid on stage about that about false equivalence is where it like you. Like you know, you have a concrete, I say like I'm sitting on a stool and the response for the would be to that. Would you like to have it there's a lot of things out there that aren't stools. So can we really be sure that I now its enemy at its its way. We have to have some parameters, otherwise we're gonna talk cells into a soup. Note the aid- I did the way that the truth is being dislodged and then people's ability to actually want to pursue the truth. Isn't afford it? It's ideas like the trouble is- and you know I had to say this because it's very an egalitarian thing to say: okay, it's when the What's that thing that the Bukowski said about all the smart people are full of self doubt and allure and all the and all the stupid people are very confident yeah
Well, that's the era we're living in right now, what what's the eighth one from second coming, lack all conviction, the best lack all conviction. The worst are filled with passionate intensity. I know that's right, that's the site, the club. I was trying to make it more accessible, my version, but nobody broke it down to smarten stupid. He left it a little more. That's right! Yeah I mean hell, but when did when did he drop out for you? When did you realize you're like hey? Maybe this Jesus isn't a flying man and all that have went pretty early on. I mean really yeah It's an crazy. You never believe in Hell, wool did for awhile, and then I was like, and then I met all the liberal them and then I I was, I was as you get with his brothers very liberal, never saying! Oh, it's! Okay! evidence, everything's a metaphor: yeah go your way: ok, okay, that's good! That makes it a more tangible. They hang on a second, I by the metaphor thing. I just think it's just it's just a load of stuff, then
and you know that hey there's some really good people and they don't believe in any of that stuff and they are really decent. So why do I need that stuff? Yeah? It's you know, the people who are great really good people if the family or people I've got. You know I love and I have huge respect for who who are who you know, adhere to that? yeah. What's a good people who do and em and then there's somebody who heard don't hit or anywhere else he's in wonderful had contributed to humanity, and here it seems like a lot of time. People do it out of just the community element and indeed take. I think it takes a bit off their plate, as parents and stuff Of course, I tell you what and also with the trouble telling people about that alexander pope thing.
a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Drink deeply or not at all. Here we've got a lot of people who had a little bit of a sip. Think that the einstein- oh not a problem. I know a weird myths, people, it's like comfort, the slot, a lot of these confident people who are saying I know this stuff cause someone's I dunno it's it's it makes me think you know what, in the for five years ago at a didn't, let alone, if you read the bible, rising, that's a tough. terrible thing, let my liberal instincts air, but but when I look around, I think I feel like. Maybe they had a. If I read it I'll, get it all wrong well, yeah. Nancy thing is that that kind of stuff I believe that that if once you buy the bible rights are once you you, you sort believe it then brain is open to any other kind of bullshit that make us have em is the thing is that this is what I think about. Let us miserable to see such on tromp without incomplete is consumed. By is the ideal the people who has base? Don't it there's no point
arguing with them with with intellectual, because someone saying I'm sorry god, doesn't exist because, and auto integration, is to turn the people who have design right, these are the fights and his the evidence and that dislike that that doesn't mean that I am I am, I am, I believe they believe the lie and they're the end. It doesn't matter what you say: they're, not even talking about evolution or or or Jesus they're. Talking about you know, Hillary Clinton running a pedophile ring out of a pizza parlor, you know yeah it and then, and then, when you do present them with truth, they'll say that's a good theory. I know I know under the problem is it's like. We know one of my mesh one of my parameters for whether I I when the longbill guff my happy. I just met someone re here as if someone mentions a conspiracy theories. That's it that's why I'm done about I'm done.
fuck religion, because you can't prove it at all, and you know that it will do but the thing about conspiracy theories. As you say, you know you know the truth. If the truth is okay, there's all these possible theories. What is the most likely? One was the most boring, yet it you're generally. It is the most likely explanation of some of the most boring one yeah. That means you can't stay up late over a drink poring over the infidels of your infinite endless. brazil. Is Truth is normally bore the energy its. I think conspiracy theories to support the point with that we sort of dragged through the converse, is that it makes stupid people feel smart or it does. It tells you this it's like are you and they think that, because you don't believe and express this, you drank the kool aid and had the ide drives me, nuts yeah yeah yeah I can you can. Ah, you can engage with it. So Did you start like? When did the the comedy start happening bullet? I just used to watch tv. I wasn't I was suddenly. I was just in work hard in school and I did.
Impositions of teachers in school in and that that got me that that kind of got me off the hook. Us I would have been given a lot of crap, but for the fact that I could do it so teachers would say: hey Coogan, come to the front of the class and do impersonations of all the other teachers, and I go. I don't want to do that and then ill to say: okay, while everyone can open the box and do some work right and then everyone say, do it kogan and go okay and I go to the front and they do impersonations of the teachers, take assemblies as teachers say do that you can do the assembly this morning and I really the and I believe it will attain and I'd be going up till it sets stay in seventeen year old kid straightened the ties and tying them smarten up, and I was like thirteen or some of that, because I was impersonating. The teacher would laugh and laugh and take it and the Igbo got mantled a lot of trouble and it also gets you access with other kids right. You know it's a way of social, I'm not off. I wasn't I couldn't. I wasn't tough, I a hot not, and I wasn't super smart, but I have my comedy, but I wasn't the class clown I like I was little
snow. I have my group of friends. lights all comedy and we didn't like, and I had an brother, who is in a rock band that had some success. Oh yeah yeah there will mock turtles and it is this or that how old are you I'm fifty three to thirty five, If they had data that I had my the older brother, my older brother was cool, so I wanna, thank god, sign up with music, exact, music and culture. I mean you know, there's a headline in the onion monster said parents' record collection deemed hilarious. Now, that is what I my parents had they had. As my dear brother pointed out, my parents had had snide conversions of authentic acts, so we had like an actor not going to go. Mary Hopkins has kind of like a lightweight joni mitchell, sure, and then we had the seekers that will like a lightweight pizza, Paul a merry, and everything was like. The kind of
faked lowbrow low grain. They just where the writing the coat tails and they ate ice is it. This is the aim that was the stuff my parents bought out like any alice the procedure, you listening, brilliant all latvia and dumb soda, how obama shoulders you brother five years earlier, so he would tell me this is called the cool bands I mean, and these this is the cool stuff on t v, not the main channel this stuff and that I'm here he that she is a god by this record, this come out next week is call hungarian by susan, the ban she's gone by this people gonna be talking about it and I got ok and that's how I learned about stuff that was off good. The grid slightly left field its way cuz I'm the same age as you, but in Britain there was still big singles market like there was like you'll go by forty fives yeah and there were tons of them. I remember being there at that time. He will italy after high school right right, nor to record stores, urgent hundred the area and and and and that a music and kind of that was a way of escaping from a maker.
smart choice. I made I mean I was a little I didn't quite. I was figuring out a little up, my own ass. I remember like refusing to go and see greece age. Thirteen, because I told my friends it was too commercial and the older brother that was my older brother, told me. This would be so Usha yeah, I'm not I I know, as a cell phone with his band a punk band, they were kind of punk new wave is all I am, I'm a my dad screaming at my my brother cause. He had orange hair earring saying what's wrong with you, you look like a girl. It'll, look like like society was breaking down in the home because his age. No sun was looking on drug in us, so that was like through that that period when it was in in the in the movie, their twenty four hour party, Paul yeah yeah- that would that have been the time but yeah yeah. Well, it was the earliest cause of that earlier right, wave, it kind of
ran to her is twenty four hour pied. You will like the end of the nineteen eighties that the esa and then I d, seventies, rival, joy, division and and and the pope. and new jersey and the banshees to a part of that pair, they were like new new atheists, punk rock after seventy seven. Seventy eight yeah not a lot these these bands that were kind of a refined I wasn't new Irena right and then add and sat in the eighties, those kimmel outrun actions. The area like us, our house, kind of cool under and as bans, and then there is a follow up here. And then thus of those as the happy mondays and stone roses were guitar band salute came back. came back and now and that the movie covers I pay by governments too. So I the guy I play movie tony wilson who discovered those bands? Yes, what cv percent I I am I knew him and I presented the tv show with him before I play them in a movie yeah I like, etc. Yeah, let's
local celebrity how like tony tony was a little on side, because the people who are really cool yeah, he was a bit of a sure like murray, the k or whatever from that, whoever that guy was from there in the old days like these dj's are like dj's yeah they're, not cool, but they're, opening the door exactly that's not to say that they wanted to be like the oldest guy at the party yeah yeah, but also he was a. But if you were watching the t t. If you saw him as a tv presenter, he seemed like a a youthful edge, we present have a little longing. They sometimes didn't wear a tie, but like a day when, in the seventies, where are you because of the older brother, you were, you were at because in the states waiting at that shit till years later now you know, but you were there, so you and you had a brother that was on top of it to you. You got it experience the sex pistols in real time and all those bands yeah. I remember I remember I bought
and hobbs with my buddy on never mind the bollocks, here's the sex pistols and we hid it in a perry, como sleep because they had the word bollocks on which and was my father, would consider. a rude word and he was pretty traditional, and so I couldn't have that album cover or, as he put it more to harriet in a perry, Como and I had my buddy become borrower and he would take to his house in a in a perry, como sleeve, and it was a good record yeah yeah. It was great yeah yeah, so went now. What were some of the the sea cause? I don't know, I'm not well versed in british comedy other than talking to people about money. While a lot of sitcoms I used to watch and I used a monty python hunter. There was a cool edgy thing, but a lot of comedy in those days before vcrs it was on vinyl so you'd, listen to comedy and even older comedy, like some american comedy. A lot of american comedy was ahead of british comedy like and, of course, hot and and mel brooks and stuff like that and
suffers on violent errants have that yet I had that. So that was a kind of cool, but the remedy had that any headlights impede sellers stuff. He was thinking Oh yeah yeah? That was an angle that was that was that the goons were like a pre money python. Yeah right, but so you are grown up with that. So I wasn't a huge stand up scene in Britain yeah there was not as used to it was kind of very old or regressive. Billy Connolly was this Novelli. I've interviewed him yet so he was, part of a strain of folk almost like make storyteller storytellers to come. with a guitar sing, a song and in between the songs they talk and and the talk got bigger and bigger, and the songs got less and less until eventually they put the guitar down just tall and that's that's what Billy Connolly came out of- and he was Billy Connolly, was kind of You thought to tell cheesy gags you can you can real people in yeah, yeah, storyteller storytelling and that that kind of come. and so she, the figures like him were like they once these ox
intellectuals, and neither was he like some blue collar joe right here is right in the sweet spot between them. That's what billy colony was. Could he he may be smart and yet from a kind of working background in, and I think that his style kind of defined a lot of what was going on in the uk and in ireland because, like I went to end borough, we were right to thousand six and it seems like snow. That the format for even young comics is like you're, the going to put together an hour they're going to title it, and it's going to be inform is not going to be like necessarily punchline efficient tanya, but Tommy tiernan directly. Tommy, he inherited that I saw tommy and irish imagine twenty years ago- and I was already like I'm getting some traction on tv in the uk. You're doing my thing and I said imitate them blown away by the sim, the purest simplest If what you did and then saw saw you did something with that guy. What's his name, Johnny vegas is that yeah
produced to my company produces tv series he did cause. I remember him when he was a stand up from the outcast and by his new generation is yeah yeah he came my way after me, I was I mean I was that there was gonna, be there was a place like this, like after the time before the papers. I was like this pit. While there was the goons than the idea of his lighted, penis salazar, you'd, know dudley, moore, more Peter hook would be on the friends and after that there was the rowan atkinson and that those eyes these interests and talent. Isn't he ever quiet whites it over and magic? Almost the old school like clowning any? I almost so, but we did study like wait when you have it did you study, theater and shit I went, to their ended act in the hole in the stanislav scathing, but you didn't, I just bought it brought the pants off me, I think you want me doing yoga what am doing. Why am I not even sunk in because you have become a better actor? I think walt
I did was I just. I was just about size, moonlighting doing, you know doing voice adds. I got more traction from ads for local radio stations than ever did doing any shakespeare or check off in dramas again. Will you do that? I did that stuff yeah, but I was not and I saw it getting good at it not really knows I was. I was get out. I just want to say I wanted thing is I knew supposed to be trying to I mean I I was lowbrow. I just wanted everything right now and I didn't want to have to tread the boards for no money. Zero, and I got some traction I will go into t v- show are doing comedy two years old- and I was on this tv- talent, show in london, but it was pretty cheesy and I knew it was cheesy, but I thought how it's a gig I got my foot in the door maybe and get my foot in the door. Then I can get small. Would you do I did my presentation I didn't post of our time period
I do like Michael. I can do like you know. I did do ogden buckle K quite but I'm ok. I know how to do those voices. I speak. It's good that crusty voice leather I know I knew how to do people out in chinatown the two right leaders on people, a lot of people claim to be. what lot of people claim they do show because they got your shelf at a party and, of course, I'm sean connery and they do, but they don't get the depth a much sharp part of the secret garden adapter. If you can the depth has no point doing it at all sure you do the load of the roger moore to the southern accent like this binding like that, and I do with people like I do. Sylvester stallone doing shakespearean soliloquies, so yeah I'll give you that the question was nobler in the mind, so the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune or to take sidewinder helicopter with
I do stuff like that, and I just I was listening. I was twenty two twenty three. I just applied all the throw all this this stuff or you had a framework like that. Classic sort of impression is framework where you take the guy and he put him in his situation to switch it up. So I'd have like Arnold schwarzenegger as a social worker. You know I didn't martin sheen, I do we entitled martin machine that my injury He has yet I normally do. I show some food for the top of my mouth. I got broken biscuits these make I bought a president. United states already gets aggregates real horse has voiced it's not as critical as that show like the modern, jean grey. Rapidly that shit, as you say that I could just do that stuff and tell you what what what was good about it was because that's like esoteric and martin sheen impression is a town like it's like you know. I know the was, but you just gotta I want to that guy. I can do him. It was
at what what's good about it is that, if you're trying to get on in this business, you know everyone you are. I mean everyone looks as you. I just starting out in the business you trying to grab wholesome as cozy. Look at me give me a break yeah when you do We know that you might not show that europe profound profound, some, some some silly profound, incisive throughout very quickly become go. That's pretty impressive about thirty seconds ryan writers on what the end they minor thing, but to go! Ok! Well, you can do that right, thy son, If we go with it, we can work with that. You've got their attention. Then you can say I and Jonathan my other stuff, this not quite so funny yeah, but is the rest of the realm yeah. That was the first ten minutes I going to talk about this What's what? How did you? What then just you started working doing work roma do I gotta do stuff. I didn't clubs and nightclub in manchester before this that I want to call the alternative comedy circuit when
when comedy that an already been established, good stagecraft comedy Comedy been well established in the u s, we kind of reborn in the uk in the nineteen eighties and die, but in manchester, when I was there wasn't, there was no room, for it was just kind of working class working class to kind of gag based on the lazy and crummy I had to support de bands. Yesterday, my comedy, I decide shovel club with us band on stage and I'd say Ok, before the ban, this guy wants to do some funny voices, half men and I go on I'd, I'd I'd just ram if you down the throat and in normally within a thirty. Second, somebody will wait, wait wasted and he's good. He I write and then I have a man. I do like fifty minutes of silence. That off. That's how you started yeah and that's how I started it. So it's a baptism of fire. So there was no can a pc can have go down to london, the sun either, but he's gonna, vague and then use where people go
want to be given a very easy time by the owners, because they want aggressive, surprise, surprise. Well, that's what you get if you like. I I started in new england doing like pubs and shit like that, and you get this edged where you're like what this ad there was a shout. There was a there was one venue in london called the tunnel club, and that was a baptism as you could survive that you had respect and you one stage and they would throw glasses at you. I mean that again, plastic was mentioned and I got a chair thrown at me. I mean within thirty seconds I got jethro in atlanta and started doing like really stupid, like kids tv show, voices yeah, but then screaming, but doing of them did. I just did kids, soon character, saying of seeing things on their sad, a fuel for he asked. Yes, that was pretty. How could put it accessibly to even dumb people. They will go way. This is funny- and I might say, goin to stuff that was a little smarter beer and I did twenty minutes in and account
and they were chanting MA ma. They said you wanna, go back and do an encore. Welcome the ever beat them John I'm not coming by risk. It yeah yeah goodbye. Don't don't ever get a second chance, though. Well, that's it so you get the yeah and I and I, and I just I ended up writing code who is around when you were. When you did you do circuit there, you did the comedy store. Instead, I did the comedies still on a lot for awhile and those lumpy like eddie izzard contemporaries eddie was you know he was. He was before the dress yeah before- and I remember eddies dying out me- I'm thinking caught his terrible. Why the amendment the ion If I was thinking, I was thing you want by going to sing you really guy, but you really should quit comedy, because it's really not your thing and He is a testament to tonight just hard work of people can get funny ideology. I had as a stand up. You know you start with guys your ideas, never gonna turn for this guy bath, but some dude like I
Think you're! Because of the the impressions and liked some guys are going to go after this comedy you're It's funny, no matter what, but then there are those dudes that are just that. They can't change their there's, no need now and you just look at them and when they're starting out on my guys, can be a slog, you're not gonna, make it, but then all of a sudden it clicks there, this innate this inability to do it differently. Eventually, if they're persistent and the sticks, I will say that the march into different drum yeah, you back in the crowd you thinking how can I not do what everyone else is doing and then eventually throw the towel, and then I'm asked to join the crowd via what they do cause it kind of works If people don't have that they can't well yeah, it's I'm a thing as as as when I was doing comedy, I was thinking I have seen this this impersonations or something like this is so boring. I I was I I didn't. Have other people like what I did blatantly what I did and I still I figured at all I'll, just I'll, just dumb out to others. So I know a bit of acting so I'll. Do stand up comedy characters rather than just instant I'll, do a character in front of the microphone and start doing that, and I got some traction with that character
one credited about a bunch of different characters. You know I did a woman and her brother and those are a one. Man show thing you can do to edinburgh. I did adamant. I won the fringe award. Edinburgh wanted it and at twenty six years ago, and that kind of ide Why didn't this cheesy tv shows? But when I won that that gave me some credibility was he's not just some cheesy like flash an guy. He can do stuff that smart and funny and then also not an impression that I didn't do any impression that show to deliberately to set to see if I could go height nothing else, cuz. I don't see people like how he's the other funny voice guy yeah. I know I can do other stuff like yeah. Everyone can do other stuff whatever so so I did this with an mba and and why did all these characters and and it it it it? It was
is that, where is that, where Alan partridge came from just before that, I started doing them on radio with a guy called Patrick marber VM, a screenplay writer, and he wrote a musical, closer and notes on a scandal, and he sees now successful screenwriter, but he was at the time trying comedy which he wasn't great at did it s, sort of the team thing changing and I join him in a guy colombia. Armando iannucci has done some movies, like the death of stalinism, I just saw the devastation. He did that other one that is in the loop. He saying that I was in need of something to do with veep too yeah. He he wrote he he wrote creatively so mandate was the guy huh I met and in radio comedy with nothing on party came from working for haiti is eat, but radios great, isn't it will radio for but public what you have let public at the bbc. Radio right they, the good they might be received, was and that one of the great things whether he misses, because it was publicly funded through a through a levy, is not no one. Has it
you. Yet if you, if you, this, is a weird about it sounds like communist. If you own a t v, you have to pay the licence fee and there and and no choice on the bit back in the day. So many words BBC will go. I like that guy I'm going to give him a tv series in IRAN. There's no market research, there's no like the audience on the same. How this is measured would just be one guy, the seat of his pants. Go. I like that guy, what happened with python? That's right, yeah and, and the you know, the the sometimes people make mistakes but really odd, misshapen genius, stuff, finds its way finds its way through, because big, in a way that wouldn't, if you just relied on an unmarked research for the development process or sort of like your room full of executives going well yeah. That's the only thing. This l thing that a camel is a horse designed by committee, and I write just because it was state run you you, you you, you didn't have to deal with that process. Oh no, they just go. Okay, give this guy said
because he doesn't know what he's doing here and the kind of didn't really answer much and then that the cia seems to know what he's doing I'd give it a drive, doesn't work, it doesn't work yet yeah and it's light, and it's not my money. It's like the government's money, so yeah, so so that meant you could do stuff. That was just different. Is that some things only like, because I've noticed it and I respected a great deal, but I don't think it's necessarily intentional that and that some of the greatest british sitcoms are only like three seasons or two's yeah yeah. Well, fawlty towers is like there was two seasons of that. I mean the this too was, and we always area we had three. It was three seasons and a special specials. That's right, so the radio plays, so that that was the first time We started. Writing scripted bits, not seem right to. Let you do right, so tat people get burnt out more quickly
white, said things are written by like two people, mostly by two people, and they they they go. I'm done. I'm done. I just did like a, whereas in ninety ngs yeah, so I've done everything, but whereas here you have is more of a aka, it will. It's always been good at getting an idea and going. How can we make this generate as much capital as possible, whereas the brits have never been great at that? They have a good idea. If at a lot of good ideas we have, and then the americans go okay, we cannot now we can mass produce, this new will take, it will buy from them. I will make it and will make it so everyone can have it right. Where are you like? It is yet by their that's, I don't know who did they pay for? Those things are, I might add, is that work of you sold some a tv well. I'd do know which we try to have it production company we make. Some shows us that we need to be have showed skull, camping that Lena dams do an american version was yours yeah, so the that was the regular way, yeah yeah-
when you're saying that when you do the bbc thing know you're going to get experience writing acting producing. We recall that we would go along and record the show for the BBC. We'd go have lunch here and we'd be having lunch amigo we have an, At lunch yeah and then that afternoon we go and record it and it will be broadcast at the end of the week yeah I mean there was a fast turnaround and stuff and so that and then but so saying. I want to write- and I want to- I want to do more seriously as well and and and there had it Alan part, gummy versions of the on part. You showed you do. We did light one two three c b says in the uk with one talk, show them to sit come to two sitcoms, then we Did some stuff on radio is to for guy sky. That's murdoch thing, it is younger and we did sues for that and then, now a back on the bbc really so, we just finished tv series. It starts next
brewery another. Our partners in alarm, porches series, but this one is like a magazine type shows is like I like her liked like a sort of a morning thing with a female and male co for any age him he's weasel is old, as he would be, has always been about ten years older than me here, which has worked out pretty well here, but as I'm getting older, I'm making I'm catching up with him slowing his age down. So he's about seven years older than me now, but but yeah we've got like a new. It's a great. I'm really excited about the show. It's a it's In the same way, Alan tackles serious topics like the whole. Me too thing as a whole episode about that, as we were saying, is that that's such a difficult thing to talk about for anyone and anything about, but as you're doing it right, but we had legally to this licence to you can get things wrong in a big way and its fine, because
It's him doing it and also you're, not saying you're, not a saint you're, not sanctioning or agreeing what is and you're saying this guy makes it things wrong, so you have licences it at that, and this is the crucial thing, because you gotta come at character. He can say stuff that you go. That is so off message, but sometimes he can say stuff. That's true that you don't that I can say the andrews that loads exact, so the rule, complaints and something out the full compliance. Only as the every one secretly knows to be true to good point, because, like my when you're telling me this my first ray She is that we do. no dialogue around that stuff. So, Europe has a men in general. I note that I am not going to of course. So so, when you can just do it that is already an asshole and insensitive. You got you how come you can tell them and you can an and you can kind of, have you cake and eat it, as you can say, and what we do is we haven't tried to jump on the bandwagon say you know: hey,
and he says I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm apologize. I made mistakes. I stood on the side of the sidewalk and tried to send slow, hang clapped. While I watch a woman try to parallel park. You know- and I feel bad about that. And now, if it, if I saw a woman doing it now, I would I would shout instructions, rights likely now I got- I mean I'm afraid to laugh on the right that those I've terrified that not everything. But the point is it's him and we have light. We have access to have on the show putting the view and we have access playing, but both and I really looking in an exaggerated way, you're actually servicing the side of the dialogue. That does not is not enable yes, exactly and and and doing and cover its work as a safe environment. You're not saying that he's right right. You not say he's raw. You endorse it, and, and sometimes, and an you too due to sometimes and a to to
little humanity on arguments to become very atrocious, yeah rats. That's what it does wonder if even now he's am choosing. I was very goddamn carefully way. I am with you because you can. I have to go and it is like there is nothing unreasonable about the intent of of what's happening, I know I don't know what else it is, but the cut when, when you do come, when you want someone you writing coming, I feel like I'm very ethical and what I mean is I don't mean that I I am a pub I'm I'm sanctimonious, but but what you do in your right companies. If you feel ok, I don't like. I don't like to use comedy to attack people who don't have any power right, some people, some people do, that
I, like it, it's like hey, aren't you blanche out on punch and punch up, of course, and a lot of people don't get that? But to me it's like you had to do that kind of ethical responsibility and are you laughing at a prejudice or you'll I or is the prejudice, laughing an area. Now I dont sit there mocking myself, but intuitive That's what I do and I don t also have the parameters of the character. So when because when you start doing character, work in your making these characters up your infusing with the humanity. So once you- and you understand- certainly Alan partridge, your bottom- the you understand the depth of that guy, so you can also sort temperate with that, like is this gratuitous. Is this something he wouldn't say? Is it within the realms of the humanity of the character? Because that's what's going to ground it in the humanity yeah you can't. Can't be a monster. You can't
if you create someone who's, just obnoxious, then you know and and his son to ignorant and and an unprejudiced hitch, but the one thing is he try used to do the right thing early on, we made him a little too surfer, unreconstructed unreconstructed and a little too, Predictably, conservative that look like peggy s future fishing, but I get your kapital whereas now do him, some of whose like who realises that that say, he's gotta get on message as it were, and round is struggling to just two to do the thing you suppose to not unlike a lot of men, his age and a bit like what sometimes I mean why at some I remember you know my father, my late father trying trying to be. You know like my mom saying you know let the older generation again to grips with being enlightened about
Gay relationship is well yeah and and skins. The skins to save him and my mom can say, and does he have a friend you know, yeah But that's what like before trump came in. You know what I about the nature of cause, tolerance, it is what it is, what it is in order for democracy to work or do you have a social fabric? That's an elo progressive people have to. his tolerance in that means like it starts off with with guys going like oh fuck, the gays fuck this shit, but as it becomes culturally infused and fought for they're like well, it's not for me, but as far as move it's it's moving, moving, moving and and and for some people or people are open to that, and I kind of like if people it's it's all the do the intent. My you know, it's not it's. What's your intention Is your intention to be mean spirited, urgent attention, intention to try and do the right thing, and I threw the measure of what you know
Is it sincere or is it what's the motivation behind, and also that did just that conversation are weighing that stuff out? They give the characters depth with it, which is what like, when I watched the stand in Ali that having see you do not a lot of stuffy. I didn't grow up, watching you doing impressions or more or without now, partridge, but but seeing that movie and having experiencing Filomena the trip tropic thunder twenty four hour party people actually lotta velma arm was that you know I grew up. my grandfather. We are your age, so in new jersey, the the the laurel and hardy stuff was on. So it's part of my childhood, knowing that those those guys- but these are two guys that Nevin not two people know any more. and your end. But if you do know them, they're they're, just these broad clown characters and the fact that you were able both the you to give them such humanity in depth At that stage, in the career and behind the scenes kind of mind blowing to me that
like knowing now how how adapter you are at impressions. You still had to fill this guy out show you know, on on the level of having heart and an end in also exploring that relationship. The owl I mean I'd taken this job on a personal. You are right about anyone under forty like who the hell are. Those guys need shown photographs of all the fat guy in the thing either way those bowler hats yeah those right they can have the image, but It doesn't matter by the way to see the film doesn't and you don't need to know who they are. It's a really. I mean I, to do this because a growing up, they were very important to me, really beyond that what they did to me. It's a bunch of things but I've china so sum it up. Is a love letter to comedy. I think, that's true that a way of celebrating those because you I've I've I've had a few years in comedy and and as well as writing movie instead of dramatic stuff and there's sweet spot. Where comedy too.
As an end in itself is a great thing that I do. But it's it's! What it's it's it's a motive for the comedies more useful as a I wait to sugar the pill of difficult subject matter via if people laugh then not scared, you like that- will go into a lecture, yeah, hey! You can laugh at this stuff. You can laugh a bad stuff here and you can learn about it and pay learning can be fun, write another but am but but withstanding all it was. It was a way of saying you know we see. I was thinking about looking back and the research on the the movie, the jeffrey up phenomena with me. He wrote Stanley myself, it won't wait. was it a what what compelled him? He would just don't you I don't know I do know that he thought that he knew that they don't force of europe in the far right is, and I wonder why the hell are they toying? Twenty years after the heyday doing lie gigs in in in europe and then started do some digging of yeah. They were broke. Why would they because how roach stiffen on
the deal yet and so a says, limb or about them in them through them and the form that came this idea can't the relationship between two men who the whole lives here. The people that come and gone to the professional life wives have come and gone, but the end the and all they have is each other, and it's about learning it's. It becomes a metaphor for living with each other. You have an understanding. The person is in the same space as you yeah. I in also in terms of the love letter to comedy what was sort of amazing about it, no matter how begrudgingly they were doing these two, or what how they were getting screwed and even with them. Popular, ready dissipating if, if at all being in a stallion Adam is m once they took the stage and did those bits and they worked every fuckin time, no matter how many people were there as a comic, you see that those questions are answered. It's like yours, guys who are older than you, and I have been doing the same act or twenty years, but they get out there and they do it and they're in it
and then you whatever happens off stage, is what happens off stage, but that professionalism exactly things. we would that we all know about the other tears the clown and and the kind of you that's what what what that this darkness behind. Humor, but nobody looks at it looks at the humanity of something which I think is cliche but laughter being the best medicine, it's it's never been more apparent me how important the is now I remember. I did a lot of live stuff, onstage, the apple tos. Why do big big audience year before I got into to doing the movie studio and it used to? I used to look to the audience, and this is something I think I'd help me. I doubt if I, with with the stand law who wrote the comedy of, is that when you the sunny, How do we we to that? We you look at that. You think it makes you laugh at six. It must be lowbrow, it's right. It makes this vessel reaction. Is one of the few things from some of the that touches you emotionally can make you cry, but but that's a kind of a the can be.
thing, unless you bawling your eyes out but yeah one when you find something funny? make this noise? it's unambiguous the the gray area, if it, if you didn't make that noise, you didn't find it funny. If you didn't laugh it's something that has no it's! It's unambiguous yeah! Now, if you have a big if the people- and they all laugh at the same time, there's a lack of bullshit in the near there laughing? That means they found it funny. That's indisputable right now, you've got a group of people in that a crowd and I might by two thousand people in the venue- it might be millions- be watches on the screen they can be. Have the most dive his political views, the most diverse ethnicity or religion right, but they all laugh in that one moment they're all unified in that mo, however fleeting is when they all laugh at the same time. That's when you well, that way weighs in that in that regard is mind. Blowing oh sure that you that you can make all these people who might otherwise be at each other's throats yeah be incomplete
union in a moment, and they ought that's what the greatest comedy doesn't here. It is kind of like that. The respect for that year, and and the fat the stand that the long hottie when you look at some of the movies. Some of the best of here is timeless and quite nuanced cause it some. It works as in a child lightweight when a brick fallen, Oliver had his head and he takes his ball. How of scratches rubs his so head and then another one lenses had done it and another and another one yeah. I mean it's kind of like it. it's never goes in or out and dumb, but but you see that the expressions of humanity to it and the kind of love of humans, the comedy they It was never vicious mean oh or aura or cynical beer, and I was looking back at the movies it cut the shit this did they making the stuff well, ism was on the rise in europe here on the great depression is sweet. in this country and
They were doing the stuff that just made people laugh yeah and I thought well, that's some. That's pretty powerful understanding the context. yeah and so in making this movie. We just wanted to I think some was tell a story about about something: that's important and and people who have the ability to make you laugh and unified you let that that's it orton and his worth saluting, and also I you be it a love story to comedy. It's also a story about a relationship between two guys who who, despite you know, whatever their emotional liabilities were, whatever they were. Unable to communicate, had had this depth of feeling for each other then the in that was sort of a fascinating. Oh you see where you do see it and it's you know. When you see some of those political, I saw documentary John Mccain day and about him in Lindsey? Graham
yeah. I showed his friendship with Joe Biden yet people who don't agree with each other but have love and respect for each other. That's that's! That's whether that's why this the hope of humanity is in people who he beyond in the era of yoga damage in the differences and find a way through near, however, imperfect that that's her way through, as does negative, gold at the end of the rainbow right, but the zone does a kind of away way through by people accommodating those I mean that that you can do that? To an extent mean if someone says I want to kill or or are how a whole race of people that's there's no kind of vat is no compromise on that that that's that's! When you know the chips are down. You have to. U have to just stand up against. That's that but beyond that people there are people who disagree fun?
Anthea, but are equally noble and also like. Maybe you know, there's that sort of thing with with people. Where the either you may not know why you may not understand it, but there emotionally they're connected sure whether it's an elbow or not yeah, they they they they get along on a level. That's not necessarily explainable. No, and you know however much they, because the normal rate, the normal, a narrative along out easier than trying to get some I am the china struggle that kind of blue collar work as the kind of a little poor and the eyes, but the time get on it and style all screws. It up follow of a hottie and, however mad oliver, how to get there but he still goes come on. It'll is like, if you can't bear his body, but he never abandons is, but it is a surrender to another thing them We showed, if you don't remember it or is it lay despite the fact That they were how roach players they may not have known each other before and that outfit you have the bowler hats were something that was established by,
at one or whatever was that they are totally unique. in their presentation and in their act. There's nobody like them. Note that, they didn't know and they just they will put together. They were like the kind of, though, like the in the case of rye pop world, you know we were talking about before your parents records that there was a lot going on culturally, that was popular in comedy and they work and how rose wanted to the micro. I had some great songs couple, yeah yeah, and so ah you know that we, we would discovered these characters. They created these characters and interest the chaplain Stan laurel came over from england on the boat together and and a stan laurel was charlie, chaplin's understudy. In fact, you to see rafts of foot stellar wearing the charlie chaplin cloe, really gaia with the muscle
in the bolton and the stick that the walking stick at united artists are like before he beat before that when they were doing the stuff live okay for a year or so, but it's a pro style oliver hardy did that stuff together downloaded all the what behind the scenes. So when you I talked to dick Van dyke, dick van dyke, okay, yeah this at this, is up to you tell me you don't know he just like any tells a story about when he got the hollywood, how much you have stand or on the neediest looked him up in the plans are right and he called him. I know a relationship when I know that's what be, though, that while I was gonna go gonna say: is that the risk? it's that I did on Stan laurel was: because he was in the phonebook, dick van dyke famous again hold them up, but a bunch of other people just phoned uppsala recorded the conversations down the phone, real yeah on tape recorder, and so there was a bunch of the court of salaried! I with own that I listened to to down just talking about long. He would talk to known rang up aid, given that I think he said to the day. When data,
I think you said. Does your mother know you're calling phone call and see how it's going to cost a lot of money. How so It was in the late fifties. Early sixties stand eyed and sixty five year and dumb, but that those those those phone calls a real. I opened to not only have the rhythms of his speech, but how we used to think he was like consign cost about things like he was a ass jackass and him being kind of rude about some evil, which is nice to hear some ready because he's the hapless kind of any rise this this the powers generous of it, he said one, was interesting. He said when talkies came in before that laurel hottie made the transition very well. He said when talkies came and said people were talking nine to the dozen. They were just wouldn't shut up on movies because they could talk. Suddenly, he said But we me and Ali we just kept it to a minimum and we stuck to what we knew what so he the cap, the physical stuff they put a
wood's inherent that they didn't go crazy just because they could speak for which a lot of movies at that time did when yea yada, yada yada yada all the way through clear. They didn't do that, though. They said that was interested in a small way to adapt yet and in also the baby out with the bathwater right. So for you like, since you have this you never natural ability to sort of. You have become here too, to take on an impression. So these fall. cause and and and and the research you did were able to inform this impression into a full kara yeah look when you, when you were when you people, it was like when you play him like a real carrots ivy. If like pages more difficult- you got someone who lived a life and they've done a bunch of they've done there. for you stand laurel has left behind a footprint in the movies he did and some of these conversations and saw a few books, his letters, this stuff there yeah and also the thing was, is that, like you, bio pigs can go either way depending on how familiar people are with with who it's about like it
a person still alive or thrilled him contemporary you're up against this sort of like way doesn't doesn't quite look like behind behind got him, but these guys are far enough in the past in the makeup and and the attention to detail was so what it was, but I feel as bio pick, the depth of it is much different in anything I've ever seen before, because it doesn't really mean it's gotta work you have to. It has to work yeah, but if you don't know who they are, you just need to what you need to look at it and said this is about a relationship to two guys who are funny and show them being funny if you show them being funny on stage and then you see okay, this is what goes behind people who do that funny, stuff and and you just see the the any kind of relationship, you see that the tensions you see that their arguments the that they thought they, the canvas bag to be, will carry around a relationships and bloody. Let it faster than a summit bursts up and then than and then you are the resolve it. Oh, you don't hear and dumb, but they did that sort of this earth on stage purser now a persona as yo
the backstage offstage realities was and so well so how? How did you and in John work it out. We will first of all me fascinations that's the way I did John was a little different from me, but the bedroom It was I after well. I know how he talks he's so to speak s type. This has kinda strange way of talking. It's like mid atlantic. It's it's it's kind of a little bit british, but it's all so slight. The american can't quite place it in the fianna, and as these sort of closes ams up and as these strange expressions wade cut quite show what it is to do that for five expressions in the pay space of thirty seconds, each one of them different thought process here and you see and his face. So unlike site you, you have some like because you have this visit stuff on screen and then Some conversations is like well, I know the outside of superficiality of his,
car, the physical and you can use that as a way of going back into the carriage or a little girl, cable or gotta. I got a handle on him, a knock and If I do some research, it's like working backwards, yeah. I guess you're right. I've got the answers. The area where the question is how k I know that that was come out. I went about bringing stand to life We had the opposite. We spent four weeks rehearsal, John c reilly. playing oliver hardy I sat in her house room for four weeks and we learned these dance routines will lend some of the physical stuff we had allowed. That is clown adviser and he loves clowns of John. He was a clown. He was for awhile early on and do had this guy called Toby Sedgwick, who taught us how to walk, taught us how to move where to learn the routines were to learn dance routines, that they did yeah and then learn their mistakes and put the mistakes in as well. Alright, it's like a band. We had to learn each move meticulously and then make it messy via, like like a good band that complete tight, how to make it like they would do it yeah unplayable, loose. He
that where things are not quite guitar slightly like was- and it was great fun it's hard work, but it was fun, and that was that that, but in doing it together, John, I got to know each other. We become im friends the same way that you we say hey. This is just like. Like standard hollywood put together, we've been put together. Let's find out who we, let's learn to trust each other, and we got became the it was all designed to make the movie work, but the byproducts it that was that we became course inevitably became very good friends Israel living each other's pockets and having to take care of each other on screen, yeah and guide each other a little too yeah like yeah like out for me and like hey, you know, when you did, that thing was better the first time you did it alright k. What about me? You know yukons to each allison, saying, hey gimme some feedback or do do you think about that was pretty good right. Maybe we can do it
it's great it must have been a very light because I was really in a I'm. Not I'm not cynical, but I'm judgmental you know I. I was like completely blown away by both of the performances and the movie itself. I thought it was great and I know what to expect when I saw the trailer I was like holy shit. This is why this is going to be insane. and and it just like it doesn't matter. If you know who they are, you know it's, you know it's it's really an interesting portal into not only of past time, but the this sort of kind of eternal dynamic of of real relationship and guy it's I just feel I feel like it's in the sam This, especially right now were an. Conversation because of the war we living in a most conversations were different. I opinions or add, tend to spiral. Escalate into this kind of you
well melt down your time and again yeah and it's it's just about two people figuring out a way through the fucking mess, yeah yeah it's great and was a rewarding for you. I mean in terms of the yoga what you've done in your career as it was. I mean I I you know I I did this when I wrote this film Filomena few years, yeah that you mentioned, and that was to me that was a kind of a a little epiphany for me I was like hey, you know I comedy is isn't just an. steam thing in itself. It's it's it's more interesting as a component in and as a result of a two year, weapon sure use yet to try and tell the story is he people's heart open. He will yeah and, and it's big I end Norway telling you that's why I fell in love with a knife like set what, especially with of course, keep their mother.
It took on the global landscape, having of people who are each other's throats and the attrition nature of any kind of discussion via and and when you put comedy into something it just softens things. People just a more open system is like any kind of stories or if you have an intellectual discourse, you and I can have an argument me up awesome where I all my that the merits of my evidence about. Why do the same? Whenever I mean you, might you might accommodate a bit it, but really she really want to make people think that it's the idea of a considered an oliver cromwell said you. I beg you the depth of christ, we consider it possible. You may be wrong, you know just the notion of self doubt. He answered that that that's a healthy thing
sure you might not be right about some very healthy that ah yeah amidst just a good thing, and I think, but the only thing that really makes people think about this is, if you tell a story, be the bible. Is the stories yeah, and that's that you know this. It's not about you tell us. If the story touches someone air make them think about something. Oh, absolutely, How fully then a whole spreadsheet of status, any to any done. Also like some of the other movies, you d know you ve done you ve been part of white cause. Really good. Satire is not theirs a lot of it and I think that you, the british, are a little better at it generally, but also, I think, tropic. As one of the greatest satirical move. He said I mean it's like it's really deep movie yeah it is about. The funny thing is yours, I think you re is about its about something here. It's that one is it's not just funny it's about some thea
about something. That's about human nature says something I can also show business and vanity and showbusiness and shallowness losses, but it's a commentary on something, and unfortunately I think because it's comedy that that that it still it's sort of a thing get because they don't wear their importance on the sleigh comedy by its very nature, doesn't wear its importance on right it because it makes. Yeah. You think what it can't be that important. Yes, it can. I get. It's underrated in terms of the intelligence of the whole thing. How'd you get involved with that with anybody who's still up or am I come away by? I knew him just because he knew my stuff. I knew his stuff and I think king's island and met me and said: hey. I really dig yourself while I dig your stuff and he said what would you do and then I and I did those the museum movies we may have been after track, I think it is after he was asked to wear anyway the the but he said, come and play. Will you play the director player? Destroy it? Interestingly, he he said: have the funding
I work for some reason why I was spend the british directs ass. He wanted me to seem dislike. It will, but I wore confederates like yeah, I wore a confederate flag on the on my sheesh. I was my choice here. They put a confederate flag on my shirt here and ah cause. I spent the minister, I associate that that why that's what added value I tested, the movie Ben said the and people didn't like him at the mus, the confederate flag and they they they, they digitally removed it from every frame. That's crazy of me, yeah yeah, so that I just had a plain blue t shirt on either I wouldn't have noticed, said yeah, but I think in the trailer, the maybe the maybe some online there's a trailer, I'm still wearing it like a an end, yeah you so do we. You do like doing that kind of stuff where you're really cut, like even the political committee. With with anything which is, I, like, I've done a lot is which, which is edgy, and I like doing stuff witches
Emily law, haughty decided stand, and always it's called is quite a silver, a gentle there and I was the trip With that I mean that was kind of a relationship, but it is actually yeah yeah similar. It is similar in a lot of ways actually yeah. The trip about said simulate lays guys trying to figure out life yeah, and I liked that I think I know what it is just think when you're younger it's like proof or you want to be says, as the comedy I did was sort of more acerbic and fun and a cynical was like- and I was like as I come to giving the finger to the establishment and then when you, if you're overflow, continue giving people to finger up it's kind of it's not a good look at why I love the movie. It was great talking to you. I am glad you took the time to do it. You know thanks for hanging out the mark, I like it a lot. I like your garage,
No. I got a hammer on that. Have a hammer, a half a ham. Is that? Ok, that's for me to attack your? U to attack me. Whatever you feel goes away. I lay generally neither has happened. People just ask what the fuck happened, I found it somewhere and it was on the table. It all garages. Now it's over here. So how long you in town for ah three days and I'm going to I'm planning monica to do actually the Michael Winterbottom I'm doing another movie with him and in a movie about a rich billionaire bastard. Are you him? I'm him now. Has a script it funny? It's an eyebrow like a of super rich guy who has superyachts and big parties, and and and employs people in sweatshops in in in them showing an amazing those super super, cheap, six, all eyes too, into the oven, existential moral crisis at the end to now he's a bastard through and then he dies it's refreshing
it's unpredictable thanks. Man will have a good thanks go see that movie post that was steve, coogan I'm getting amazing job and, and it don't movies, just great stan and ollie playing. Now in new york, co it opens everywhere on Friday january, eighteenth, okay, okay, We don't need no stinking wall, dig it. I'm gonna play some guitar, some slightly border, tinged guitar. I think it's got epo to it got TWAIN a little tex mex he make. Maybe not. Maybe it's just me.
what I do at the end of the show? Do the.
Transcript generated on 2022-07-17.