Hey people. This episode of the market tom show is sponsored by those who teach the new comedy untrue tv, in clayton, holland, andrew or vidal and Ben Roy of the denver based comedy troupe, the graphic x star as three troublemaking teachers, along with maria thayer as the school librarian this season, with a new principal, around they're, forced to take their schemes to greater lengths in order to keep their jobs, their friends and their dignity. It's going to be a long year. The a v club calls it relentlessly defiantly funny those you teach thursdays at ten thirty pm, nine thirty central on true tv were also answered by your pretty faces, going to hell and original serious from adult swim? It's a workplace How many set in hell litter Hell we're demons with love sex religion, existential dread. Dealing with the world's lousy s, boss, all while having to stamp so unfortunate soul, pitchfork season three

where's october. Twenty third, at eleven thirty p m on adult swim with guest like Andy daily job, glaser and eddy pepper tone, you can catch up with the first seasons on adult swim, dot, com, the shows nominated for an emmy, but at last to rob cordery. I think, but anyway, you're pretty faces the hell on adult swim, now it's time for the mark and tom show. This is a thing that my friend tom sharpening and I have done ties. We just sit down on the mike's and try to figure things out? We three these in the past, any use to only be able to get them on itunes, but now they're, all part of how premium go to howl, Howell, dot, fm and use the w d have to start your subscription to how where you can get thousands of ours of pod, including all the w e f archives, yup and don't forget check out my show the best show its life Every week, tuesday nights at nine p m eastern at the best show dot net and you can get the podcast of the show every wednesday

Ok, let's start the mark and tom show. While since we done this, how do you feel about things the whole? Let's go open, ended. I was that's a good, a trap. We'll know I urge overheard, you talk in the brain and their about tat. I didn't realize you are innovation, voice, I'm one myself, but it doesn't sound like I'm as popular as you. I've, been doing this voice on this. This cartoon network shows called steed. universe, an amber dad on it. So your regular yes, I'm first person below them.

exciting characters, a it's, the kids. It's kid Stephen university and then his three women, who are the spirit, type superpower, forces and emphases half human and have not human and his heel dad who is the goofball and it's funny, because it's not the characters. super it sexy in a way. I end that when I was at com, On a few years ago, in San diego, they were just lynde invited me to a panel and then as the dad by the time you got in costume by your representing their shall yes, exiles, representing the comecon for grown men, yes, no the area, the thing where I know he entire city of san diego is overrun by you, nor the the pod rays the baseball team was just like. We can have games this week, cause. the cities

overrun by man, children with children, dress like yeah, darth, vader, yeah, it's like hackneyed, even make jokes arrived, no sense of it, because there would be no, for me to ever: go down there, I've detached almost entirely from the new community by away, I think, that's a fair move at this point. I think I felt this ingenuous about it, there was a period there. I thought it necessary that I go out in the world and do them down, shows and do the alt rooms. that were nerd based- and I realize that I'm not one of them, I'm not the opposite of them. I'm not a bro where a bad guy or a jock or a villain to them, but I certainly do not have the same interests as these people and were you did you feel like you were feigning at any point? No, but are what what would make? What would be the overlap in the Van diagram of me, a nerd yeah? Why think? We're fun

mentally sensitive people, but they seem to be interested in a lot of different specific things that require a lot of attention. I don't have that type of focus. I can't get that involved with anything. A comic book series, like I cry bout pretty early. Do you know what I mean Jimmy two or three of them? I get the idea, I'm good. I dont need to feed that haven't like that yeah and be going back to the comic book store every wednesday. I didn't grow up with it. I don't I'm more concerned with people liking me in a in a real way than finding a group of people that do the same weird thing. I do Sure, rather than just having interests, and then you never have to talk about who you actually are are no. I yeah the opposite it in yeah. I'd like

talk about who I am and not about number seven of of stupid man yeah, you don't as well. Number. Seven is a pretty good issue, though I have to save stupid man, it's a isn't that the one where it gets really stupid, that's the one where he can't get stupid, lose his powers and men sure what to do and Thankfully, he gets a bit by radioactive stupid bug the death of stupid man, yeah. Now I I understand I as a kid I would I I read comic books as a kid, and then I would just it. Was this a war between music and comic books for a stretch and analysis like no, I just like music I don't like com,

books any more when I did this comecon thing for stephen universe and we will then afterwards they were, they said ceta. Ok, though, the didn't do autographs the tables and so to me, and all the other voices at the table on the create of the show yeah and I was people bring in these posters up that they sold and then they would like look at me and be like. I want you to sign this thing and, like I literally a one point said, the summit is like ya. That guy on the poster I do the voice of him, do you do want me to sign your poster is just like yeah. I don't think so. I am. I am with this thing and everything I've done with with

by showing all this stuff carried like zero currents like. I had no cloud, nobody there was like being in a different country where does like. You know who I am. I am worth something you people don't understand. I'm too, I'm sure you're going from the best shot. I've got value if I was at a record store, my god, be a different story. I'd be talking to everybody lobbyists liberty, but it. It was a meaning of it was. I was. So I was the lowest person on that on that that panel, who they want to sign. Just a kid They wanted the kid and and rebecca sugar who created the show they wanted her to sign it and the voices of the jam who were the women on the show, And- and I was just like would be like if you were getting autograph of everybody, unlike threes company and then you're just like now think I Larry right

next door, neighbor to sign the thing reminded me this thing when I brought I want to go, see lou red signing, record's its robbery records and can more square. I till I saw that story. Knowing ties of this, as I love that you can. Please tell it to me: it's my favorite. I've taught them this with John worst or we ve talked about mean making an impact. Yeah. Oh yeah, waiting online. So like you, I'm going down there and I'm gonna meet loo and what else without now probably sensation? Ok, so he's he's back. This is who louis come back as a moped salesman, yet I go down there and I'm like I see the line and I get on line behind the guy wearing the white jumpsuit tall, awkward, looking guy white jumpsuit gun, amp strapped to his back

weighing guitar wayne, the velvet underground greatest hits online. I could a space it out a little bit but united, maybe there's one. Prison in between us. But that was what I was following: make our way up the stairs in astronomy, and I see that loo and know how

If the ban was for new sensations, I dunno who they were there's like three or four okay. This is what reminded me, though, sure of the person you're saying not only design that yeah. So I'm like what am I going to say to Lou that's going to be memorable, it's gonna have an impact and I'm thinking of thinking and then I get up to who I got a car. I've got transformer and I've got the new sensations which I didn't care about, so they they. I got the two records, and then you know that the guy from the band they start signing this moving towards WU, there's like three other dudes, the underside of new sensations and I'm like okay. While they are on that record and then they take transformer, then the fucking bass player from new sensations, it's transformer mike. You just ruined way, you're, not on transformer stupid, and you just you just you scribbled on my record. That's all you did if anyone goes who's that guy I'm not even going to know your name yeah, I dunno, who you are sounds like David Bowie, was

the lou re love and he decided to throw its signature on. Why do you think I anson fucking? So that bothered me, but it didn't distract me from my mission at hand, which was to connect with Lou directly, and I look at loo I go. I guess I do man. I go like a hey lou. What gauge picked you use what does that think? He said medium, that's how much I I know the stories. It's my favorite story and I was so thrilled. Yeah gotta use a medium. I did for years, no more Damn those days are over when Lou died. I gave up mediums yeah. He had. He took me, aims. It get thrown a medium. Pickin. Is in its

yeah yeah from here on out out of respect for you no more mediums for me, I'm hanging in hanging it up, but I'd play it. I'm on a cartoon. I'm on harvey beaks. I did one episode of adventure time. I played a non flying squirrel and I get like what are some good feedback for that people are surprised. They know our voices, that's the the thing is when their people are surprised about it. They're like holy shit, that's marin, but as I did one episode of adventure time, but then I have a recurring character on harvey beaks, okay, randall, that a sick, cranky raccoon and I basically he owns a business, a store that has whatever's necessary for for an episode to move through it. I can sell anything at the store. I I rent things. I sell things. I can repair things and my mother lives with me. So, there's a little bit of that. What what voice do you use.

Pretty much this one really just go. I just yell more right, the brighter I brighten it up like have you ever been in the room with those real voice, guys I've seen I've never nothing I've ever been in room, or one of them is doing their thing yeah, but I've seen enough of war King them be interviewed in watching them when they slide into the yeah thing. It's really no you're, not one of those guys. It's kind of comforting to did not have that skill trotter. They would try to find that gear. and be like would be worse to not try to find it and not have it or to try to find it and find it, and then you're like law later you just act like when they go into like my favorite of deputy S. There's been a couple. I think when you talk to somebody doing impressions and they slide into things you're you're, just

you can hear you whose does canada riding out like anytime you like about, to the normal voice, I'm ready to talk to that person again, but it is for that moment, though, it is kind of impressive. it is going to do it but don't watch it is sort of freakish yeah. I I don't know how far out I could go with the thing. Is you just to me you're doing the thing The idea is that the one guy run in the board on the other side he's just like they punching can give us one and I got the like look at that guy who watch you do voices and start. These marking it down. Number four I just be like. I don't think I could do that voice anymore. The sky looks like he thinks and ass. You ve decided he's disappointed the board ops, disappointed he empowerment him out like he doesn't want He doesn't want me to keep doing that. It is a pretty easy way to earn some money though, but you sing, I sing on the show

really yeah. It's something else because, but has not been a dream of yours to sing the music not really now I'd new pretty early on. I was not going to cut it with that. I just to me that the if I wrote a song that was like a sincere saw it would be one of the last things I would do because there's there's no way I could go forward with. After all of the All of the marking of done of everything, and suddenly I was just like here to stay, here's a song, I wrote, I dunno came from yeah it's time. It's just writing sign the privilege of laughing. They pray laugh louder when I'm doing like others is funniest thing it does dumb song. Now I was actually it's sharing you my heart, your version of cats in the cradle. Exactly

maybe I'm not made for these times or something I dunno who the fuck is right? Doesn't it feel like? I can't take it anymore? I dunno what I'm going to you know I dunno yeah. I I'm at this place now, where I'm like now though I do because they aren't. I done yeah you're doing carnegie hall, yeah it'll sell out here. You're gonna do a sold out show the carnegie hall. I not stop. I'm gonna I've, I've, no problem. Stopping I start my show seems to be a thing. The people aren't you gotta get stopped his show to just say we are a long way from good cause. What's the goal pass lighted, I guess you have to be. Heaven heart, then, and not that I'm putting. I think our hearts really funny, but to just go it's not even comedy doria oil, I'm not like. I'm not even like louie in that, like you,

I still have my brain like there's a place where, like do I get to do nothing at the end? this. I dunno why I have that, but the issue I'm having and I do and again I don't. I don't garner a lot of sympathy for this. Is that really my problem is: what do I do with my life now that the struggle has lessened a lot? You feel bad for me, I don't feel bad for you, but I understand that the dynamic I am, I think one of the unhappiness stretches of my life was one I was when I was writing on the tv show monk, and I was like four years in and I thought that a job was. I had been waiting for a job for so long that I thought it was going to fix every

thing I was like well that's. What's on the other side of the line, if I can just get that, then everything else falls into place. Yeah and literally nothing fell into place, and I was a slight wait. This is what I am everything on was afraid. It would suddenly we all get fixed somehow- and it's like nothing got fixed and then you're in a thing worried. The noble no one wants to hear someone with a job complain about. Of course, people don't have jobs, its yeah it's gross well yeah, and my thing is: is that, like I don't like, I have no desire to play arenas that that sounds horrible to me and and also like I guess I could probably I probably got a movie and me may be the right battlefield like, and I feel like doing it really and Other thing is, I don't spend money like like

it changed. My life at all like people ask me: why aren't you up upgrading and am I why I don't have a wife? I don't have children. I don't want to worry about a nicer automobile. I don't want to like you. I can. I can't even get the work that I need to get done in the house. I have now done I I I'm excited that I can have for dinner everywhere. Without even thinking about it. I can go to a supermarket, get a bunch of groceries. Don't even check prices. Just this. If it's, what you want, you get, I'm just going to get I'll. Get the good ketchup I'll give a shit yeah! That's a bad example. What other ketchup you going to get theirs with one of the ketchup. This point is that even if you saw a good catch, if you like, not gonna, get that ketchup or it has like Martha mark marin, look at those catch up, he's looking at the hans to set it down. No one's gonna get HANS kettle of having now is hardly le heinz of worse you just.

now he's gone up. He's going up to the shelf. His cup wait he's taking that catch up. You can afford that catch up It was pretty like five dollars that bottle the fancy mason jar, ketchup yeah, but it is. It is such a tricky thing because you're, your struggle to just kind of get to where you It is a pretty well dog, I mean at it and you have talked to have, but there's that point where you, what do you say. the do now. It's like it's like when people wish the bob Dylan died on that motorcycle. Just like mild, I would have been best version of the story. It did blonde on blogger is dead. Now, it says, like that's kind of look, I'm a huge bob, Dylan Van, but all things can

I kind of which she died on that motorcycle. It would have been a much better story and we wouldn't have empire burlesque. The worst thing about people living a long time is just that this story continues in fewer and fewer people. Give a shit. Do you know any gets through a point where it's like what happened and bob Dylan? it's just drop dead on stage in the middle of a song. No one knew what it was yeah, it's a minor league, baseball stadium, ray says, like bare ground. Exactly is like now. We didn't know what to do it's. His plainer issue, maybe should not have been playing a town, the small

yeah. There was. We don't have a hospital, everybody be upset and then yeah people would tweet it and they'd be like what a horrible year two thousand and sixteen bynum like that generation's gonna go yeah but, like I tell you, though I I do find when I listen to a bowie song now that it I'm sad like I'm happy about the song, but every, but now you're sort of like wow. He really was amazing yeah. It's always felt that way, but now that it's even better well now you can just see the body of work as what it is cause. It's. The book is closed right and it's like this is somebody could slide the story of this person to you and it has a beginning, a middle and an end.

but I haven't listened to the last record or really taken in the design of his own out. You know going at his own or his own death. Note yeah! I listen to one time and it was so. I thought it was so intense that it was just something I was like I I will come back to this time. Really it's just that I thought was the heaviest thing imaginable to really to just control your art, to that degree and to tell to have your life and to have art be the same yeah to where this is the level that this is how you make

your art, that when it's when you're checking out your art reflects user jack, it's all there. I thought yeah that I'd. I thought it was about. Look. You can infuse anything with with meaning after somebody dies, but I thought this at this clearly knows: what's right, look as he's elms been set, my god, but I m. So what do you do now? What are you? What do? What does think, I think, about the anti dumping together that last record on this visit sylvie what what if the carnegie hall show is no morose show it's like I think mark is dying. I see him, oh my god what's happening. Why is he talking about this so much? Well, I'm going to do some acting hmm, I just got

asked in that glow show. Oh that's right! Yeah yeah, the exciting yeah I'm going to be the one man teams amongst the fourteen women. You know. Is it raid yeah? It was like you know, I'm I'm surprised the cast me. The the the the description was he's. A he's got a cocaine. album he sort of like I didn't really live up to what he was supposed to do is kind of a shock movie. Do I guess a problem with women, so somehow I got the part. I'm excited to try acting without having to worry about it being me or at me, writing it or pressure like he. He it sounds like it might be fun. I'd like to have a good time. That's what I'm looking for and at all, okay. I knew it

wanna play guitar, I'd like to play music with some people nuts. Another big dream is to like in these are things I that I could do like. Rent a space put one on hold for four weekends in a row yeah and then you just you know, go play, but you know how that goes. Maybe you don't. You know if your amateur guitar player and then he you know, maybe I'll go get some other amateurs and there's like a room full of this he and maybe bill burr on dramas or maybe some other comics, and then you get into one groove, and then he tried to cover of something that that I don't know. I'm not a cover guy like in my mind, to play music I'd like to find a groove way into do it again was buggies dial good order. I ever got if we can find something in just do it, but then I get nervous. Why is the drummer bored I test based player need more and in their right, but they're like no. This will we do yeah, that's why they chose

the base his cause. They're, like now I'll, lay back over in this corner, and just do you go there, but I haven't done that. Yes, I want to do that and yet you can eat there is or what about you, but don't like chapters with you. I think you put the carnegie hall thing feels like it just like, because I think when I saw downplaying it down, okay. Well, I don't want to build it. I don't want to you killed it up to you go ahead, but I I think about when I saw you. I hadn't seen you. I saw you at the. I would see you at luna lounge all the time. Then there was a stretch where you just weren't in new york as much in yet I wasn't sick as much comments maybe I was missing you when you were here, but then I saw you add a show that was way like I'm, like hudson street. There was a place and there was like a show that Paul F, tompkins and Janeane Garofalo were hosting a thing. Does that ring a bell

and then you came up enough, like oh mark marin's here, I haven't seen him in a while, and it was I think it was. I think it was this right, where you were like in the woods when you talk about yet like I don't know what's next there and you could feel it seeing you perform. You could feel that this guy doesn't have both hands on the steering wheel. As of like you were? You were, you were fighting. It was like if it wasn't like a fight like at that point. Was that like af, oh yeah, it was like you know where these people want. This is what you want. Fuck you Now I get ya like you know: you're, not gonna. Like me, you know like I don't remember what it was I was out. I was so threatened by by all of them, like how you guys I've you shit together. So I just I remember being dead in the water before

and got out yang before it, and that it can. I felt like that. I mean I was still it just looks like it was like you were something proceeded you like this cloud rolled out, and then you went under it. Yeah yeah, ok, you're! Just like all my clouds out there already I gotta get out. There now decide the energy out of the room. Now, got a nice groove going. Let's have markham, make everybody wonder why they're here and then the person after use, like I'm gonna, go unanswered. yeah Macleod, get rid of it. While you get somebody get the cloud of state, but that's like a different person. Now, like that person, and it doesn't seem like you're going back to them thing where your trotted of like, like where's, the where's, the fight and then you're not manufacturing fights. Well, that's all! that's really. The issue is added like most of it was like. I still have some struggles as you do it.

Well, I would imagine, but, like you know, we're also to people that it have invested a lot in our struggle. I mean like it's the nature of our voice. I mean we're different, but you know if you and I didn't have something to go up against for me. It's me for you. It's everything, else yeah, I'm pretty happy with myself actual that's the that might be. The key difference between us is like you were just like, what's wrong with me: where are your first, quite the? Firstly, you death minus, what's wrong with everybody, but maybe average. I was more like that. I'm getting a little more. If I were along those lines, it's like you know it's like yeah, what's wrong with me, and why can I be more like that? Guy haha, you know like how's, that guy yeah wisely winning. Why is it easy for him? Why is it Those are all my questions. All that then, which

The hell you just go into because I don't talk about that, though, because for me it's just hatred, did you see it becomes jealousy and encamped it's their theirs sort of enduring voice around it. Didn't find that guy, So when you had that like when things started to go better and you got the podcast going here was it was

just like, like layers falling off of the the yeah. What what started to happen was it took me a while to get over the fact that, like you know like I, I'm a comedian, I didn't set out to be an interviewer. That was a hurdle when people like, I, like your show, if you like what which part like what show which one the comedy or the reno I'm a comedian too yeah. That thing did I stopped giving a shit, and I just started to realize like this- is something I'm good at what it really came down to like you want to feel like you accomplished something that people respect and enjoy, and it has some yell some relevance, and you know that was a big burden off like you know like they, it was just a vindication. Is that the word I want where I call this work, though it didn't happen. The way I thought has you know I've. I've done something I've

abolition I've achieved something like you know. I have I've left something I've given people a thing. A lot of people get a lot out of it, and that makes me feel good and I can earn a living yeah. Do you feel like you needed just a little bit of it to make you feel like? I can start letting go of some of this stuff. Little bit of that validation. Well, the weird thing is: is that like I've spent so long talking about me like now, I find that, like on stage I'm I'm like talking a little bit more about other things, a little that's happening, sort of naturally, ok, like I can put myself in my experience, but it implies a bigger thing: you're, a more reliable, ok, you say that like Andy killer up here, and like that is happening naturally cause. I don't think because I spent so much time, my head and so much time being angry and resentful and and you're working really hard trying to do something that I became insulated that I dunno

that's a! Maybe that's everybody struggle, but it sort of like just do it would keep wine in yelling about ship, for I don't know, I just wonder: has it all been just some prolonged and persistent attempt at self medicating has its entire journey just been for me to feel ok, if that's the path and it's like, if you can get here, you will feel Ok, I think that's a pretty good deal right. That's all! Then it seems like that seems to be a lot of what I was working for. It's like. I don't want to make a fortune. You know I I'd like to make a living, but ultimately I'd like to feel ok about myself and now. I feel ok about myself now. What do I do is that the next record? Hey, I'm alright beer, this one's gonna be a little shorter everybody, that's when it becomes hey. It's me and six of my

in six new comedians. I want to tell you all want you to meet these guys, you're gonna kids, to humphrey. on your talk for about eight minutes tonight, at shaolin, but still things still fuckin aggravate me and I still find that a lot of the same buttons that I always had are still there. I still have these moments of like complete resentment and not quite jealousy but sort of like oh fuck. That I hope you like it. It's like it, but it is our using fuck that guy, because you he has something that you? Why orally, because I think their fullest shit yeah it's just a rods, yet that's! Well, that's the one that gets me as one something guy private damage. If we rode average. If we really rise out of visa waiver, we rode his hand. I gotta right right name on a piece of paper and there- and you just tell me, didn't see this is now we're being diplomatic yeah. I give we like.

yeah that's the one I would have written. That would have been number one on my list also there it is that's the guy, the one guy I might as well print up a fucking pad with that those in other erika, and then this is the one for me. There would be right after the one year- oh my god, yet like Fortunately he's like I've. Seen much of him like you is of my radar somehow hears you I'm ok with. I am I'm ok with him now. Ok, let us good not great, but you as you know, we ve gotten some peace. I guess I can mention his name camille and I have somehow melody I like email, I yeah soccer one time on a plane when he was in first class and and I had to keep keep right hoof in it back right with the with this,

the rich man gone like they look the exhausted flyers behind me. Just like we gotta sit down like there's no time for you to talk to your fancy friend, first as cock? Just like that thing, I'm just like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe I'll see by the luggage carousel see after like that cause they're going to pull a curtain. That I'm going to. Let me also not gonna slide beside you half way during the flabby like he has currently you're real you're you're, watching something ok, yeah! Oh you, gotta window seat! I'll talk over this other person, like now well, maybe see you in the airport, otherwise I'll see

somewhere all right on the road one time back a few years ago, patent sent me nuts back from from first. Ah, that's so funny. I think I guess what I guess, what it is that europe cause. Obviously, you have to have ambition and persistence to to make it, but if I dont see the like, if I can feel the whole character you have, you must be hiding some horrible monster that that's driving you like you know, there's something duplicitous about it. I can't really hide myself. Even when I'm being nice, you know people who know me or can see through me enough immediately to ted to disarm me they ain't. They know who I am but like. I know that I can hide both

add in the good of who I am. I understand that completely. I feel like when I get bothered by a certain type of performer. They their world view, can often be error. All the price once I had had like, but now I m all it now we're like now, I'm fixed- and this is like it. This is a good version of, but it's like it's like now I third fixed myself. The end here I am fixed and, like you're, not fix your probably more broken than you ve. Ben and you don't realize it and you're just denying how broken you are, and five years from now you're going to tell the story about just like years ago. I was a total mass and I thought I was this, but now I'm fix again.

and by the disease. People to see all they do is to say how their better they think they figured it out. Let I'm done yet. I felt I fix myself, I'm great now and you gotta, like me, cause I'm great aunt. Em, I'm totally solid and there's nothing wrong with me, and so, if you have problem with me, it's probably your problem is not that I still have a problem more problems than I ever had and right now I'm just denying the idea of that. I could not be perfect and also, I think that there's a thing where you and I come from a different like I don't think you went down any of the same paths I did personally but you're. Certainly our heroes were of a certain ilk like a lotta in this act. Goes back to what we're talking about the beginning about how I felt that you're performing for you know, nerd culture was was not really. I wasn't being disingenuous. I was just being myself, but

How are they going to really take me in you know, like I had this amazing moment you know in I went over to the to the stages where you have to do wardrobe fitting for this guy. Okay, you know I'd made certain decisions about to about him. You know like a character decisions, a woman, the two women who wrote these that Carly Carly mentioned liz fla. Hiv, I believe, is how you Sarah, as famous to tricky last names, l, F, L, a hiv well anyways, so carly matches is back there with the I was doing wardrobe, and I said I said this guy,

It's like he does coke, but no vials he's strictly a bindle guy strictly in a piece of folded, mag desert with the top of his pen, maybe with a key now he's in it for for you know that that it's his thing, but it's not a thing that he's flashy about it's. Just it's medicine, okay, yeah he's just a that's the kind of coke user. He is aha and she looks at me with this moment it and she she just goes. Oh we're so glad you're here this is like, like you know, we got a real one, yeah yeah, this guy's, the one that really this guy is right, because he knows this guy, like I don't have any shame about that shit, but I think sort of the kind of guys we're talking about those people that are like I'm. Okay, now, my camera is that you know what. Why were you not okay? What's what what happened there? You know, how do you think you're old

like there, you can't just have the one without the other, because then you just a caricature of yourself. I think also what doesn't constitute not being famous enough. That's not a that's, not a problem that yeah, that's, not a problem. That's like cause your career. It's opted when you close your eyes. You see thing is that when you open them, you see another thing because they're not lined up in terms of how famous you are that you can't call that a struggle? Would you know, see these two working because I haven't changed So much and I know you'll find him like I'm just now, so the right at the idea, like you ve got a writing gig. I've been writing riding on a show. It's a good show, yeah you have a nice time getting paid money to write yup the best show does well,

yeah. I look I feel like. I wish it did more than what it's doing I feel like. We ve got a little bit of a cat, the circle thing going on that. I have tried to not make it a closed circle like I'm not doing if not behind a pay wall or any of right off. I've tried to make it available to everybody. However, they want it and it just feels like it still some it does. It's almost as too much of a thing. It's it's I know it's the thing that I have always done my whole life where it's like. You can explain it in one sentence. So then people just don't check it out because they'll just check something that they can say whether they want it or not. In that can be summed up in one sentence: it's like what the fighting It's a universe that four years like to dip in do it. You know.

You sort of like. Where do I get started, while any number of three hour shows that- and I know that's the thing and I've thought about me- The show should only be now you saying that the relationship you bill with the people that no you is D, and long. An end came up up in a time where you know that I put the three hours aside and it's not a lane thing, it's just that there's people that have grown up with you here at this. Yeah absolutely and an of I I'm the the bomber is. I wish I could just get paid to do this. our cause. It's the thing I like doing more than anything else, but it's just the reality of of of reality is that it isn't, and I Can'T- and so I get paid from other things that I also like doing or love doing. But it's not it's not. The thing I feel like I'm best

that, like I'm doing the radio show so that I I have had to make my peace that this is for ever going to some sort of compliment to my right, on tv shows and getting work that way when I love nothing more than for it to just be the thing that back could be my thing, but it is in that I look. These are not. you'd. Probably there are young man, I'm not equating this with. Like actual problems, not, I know what you're saying now, but it is something I have to figure out, Well, I mean like for me. I didn't know that deal that the podcast would will be the main of my livelihood in that would be the best thing that I can rest on oh. That was air. If nothing else worked out sort of opposite like I wanted to be a comic, made his living doing just comedy and was a big comedy star that wasn't

happening in the park, as was this thing, I did that, like I had, no idea would become the sing and its fed the comedy. I can do like these tv things. I had all these opportunities, and but the podcast is thing. I I you know I fall back. I am proud of in. I love it but, like I was a comic by you know, first and foremost, and it took a couple years for me too to realize like. Why? Guess some this guy? You talk to people yet been very easy for you to be too have been slow, the down that path to where you're just want you to keep talking people and do a thing and then you're doing less comedy and right, nowhere. You don't do comedy anymore and you're the year, the funny guy who you're the guy who does interviews outmoded us common yet anxiety. I hear he does cavity tat, yes, eggs at yeah we're let still kind of weird it's sort of still happens, but I get my point being is that we were

do ok and- and we get to do what we want to do, but my question do we really know that we're? Ok, I don't know I. What do you do? What you use briefer it's to records almost any records. I tried to I'm trying to read a book. What book did you read dreamland by sam quinones about the opiate epidemic? It's great. I just read the patty hearst book american heiress. How was that was great? It was so exciting and seeing how insane that was that a new book came like a month or so ago, really yeah. So we're reading We're trying, and so it's not fiction were keeping out trying to get I'm trying to be these muscles up to where I can get back to fiction like when people read like fiction, I'm just like like what you like and what I just I get like a fiction. the reading in a red one sentence. Some just like

what I'm lost after only one sentence. Sometimes you just like we who who is, what is going on here is like is confusing. Already up. Two pages is still I'm still and like you can just picture the author just being like we are you that's stupid, like you're you're, not supposed to be that stupid. You can hang this thing you're reading too much non for, I think non fiction, just dolls, your ability to read fiction, I'm really picky about fiction I read that the new delay well, I just hand, but that's exactly the thing or just like I might have a light weight, now like I cannot ones even understandable, but it sort of like this must be much more than I am getting Can I gotta I'm missing the big picture here. I get abilities muscles back, but both muscles, make it difficult and then they ride on their reputation as being important in and sort of like a pretty sparse.

Like. I read the willows last book and, unlike out you know what that was about, and I finished it. I don't know what it's about that feeling of just like I did were characters. I did things or as a desert, I dunno what it's about you're like oh, no! This is what this is when you just realize, like I'm deep into this thing, it's not going to suddenly start making sense of a sudden you're. Just like this is the I don't understand It's a lot of something in between this and the last book that made sense to me, but then that you can't just be like then there's that point where it's just like, I'm not gonna, stop redness not one of these rights can, like. I couldn't finish. As I know, I'm finishing the I don't know what's going on, but I'm going to look at every page. In this thing There is no mortal again be relieved, yes, start doing that. The gallery towards the annual many ok I'm over there.

I remember when I, when I plowed through a crime and punishment, why cause I couldn't handle it in high school, but at some point as a relatively grownup person, I might I'm gonna. Do it yeah talking about name problems, you like what who but like, but that trains you to. I ditched your sorta try to follow the thing I I and I liked it that guy is a good writer dostoevsky. I don't know if you've heard of him, I've heard good things yeah. I read crime and punishment and also- and it was one of those things where god forbid- you put the thing down for three days- come back to just like we who is, who is that these people, yes like, like I'm, expecting everything to be like b o show and would like a little recap at that the thing and show me all the scenes where Skolnick off kills the guy the cops, the good cop, bad guy yeah that feeling when you have to go back just like. I guess, I'm starting this book over again

I'm not nuts. I I don't I'm not too hard on myself like if I can't get through it. I won't get through it because I was like. I know I have it in me because when I picked up that dream, a book which is durant was like. Did you read fast food nation know it's like fast food nation for heroin? Okay, that's, but you could have this, though I think a lot of people are still eight mcdonald's. Ok, you know it if they needed to be sort of like really understand why they shouldn't eat mcdonald's, sure yeah, there's, no one going like that. I don't care, I'm still going to do heroin, yeah they're, not even going to get if it doesn't look like yeah. The thing is tell me heroin is bad. You don't need like with food. We need some version of food quite right. We don't need very elegant. Stop with that society. abode heroin. Just go just go farm to table with that stuff yeah. Well, that's what they do. That's what the book's about black tar heroin? Definitely

farm to table heroin, but but I was in it like. I was like. I can't put it down and I was happy that happened. That happened with me, but a couple of Jon ronson books too, like I like, but it's nonfiction as well, but there's definitely he's got a definite point of view. But can Jonas was like you know like real journalists stuff, but I tried to read. I I've watched the fisker aldo the other day kind of I get through. You know like wait that out because, like I had not seen it in a long time, I don't think I'd ever seen it all the way through and I interviewed hertzog and I'm. I can't even watch for Grado and After about an hour, you like this getting good, you forget, you have to wait sometimes for our You know like or like you know, we all think what we need to be doing it, but you forget that like well, you you gotta, be patient, open your mind. Try to you know! Let it happen. You know get rid of your expectations, don't be hard on yourself yeah and it's gonna. It's going to take time to get that boat over

hill with all of it that that is the metaphor for any art. I think that if you were to sum it up wise bits girl there good, because, like art takes time, it's gonna take time to get the boat over the hill. and in those is ultimately not gonna me much bigger as someone else's agenda. Someone else mystical agenda is going to undermine your big understanding of things, and that is that is one of the crazies I didn't get the I didn't hear your hertzog interview, yeah it, but just that idea of like could somebody have I literally lived the movie more than that. You talk about David Bowie, living the art and the art being the life and it just like you watch burden of dreams, and it's just like they. They are the same movie. It's the it's, the craziest thing of just like Well, here's he's talent story of getting the boat over the hill and that's his fiction thing. Now. Here's a documentary bout it about hearts are getting.

I dunno fascinates me more than anything else with with anybody. That does something that that requires. You know, or you know that could possibly result in what you and I are talking about, which is like a I'm, a smart guy and I dunno what the fuck is going on. Is that that commitment, like you know, like back, I committed, however long of his life to that story. You know that most people don't give a fuck about most people in the world. I don't know a move your talking about, but that will do you know you like that was his life people who make movies in general, especially personal movies, reawakened, when you realize how long it takes

to get the thing off the ground that commitment. You know it really makes you sort of like what I I have to reckon with this. I have to as a viewer as a taker. In of all things, intelligent, I think, have to sort of like give him due process yeah, because this is not a small right and that's that's the other thing it just feels like. I keep this point in my life. I keep feeling like it's like it's like. Is there a big do I get a dog. Am I going to do one big thing or is everything going to be? Is this radio show the big thing am I doing it now wants a one one week at a time, and you turn around like now. That was your big thing. Yeah like if you find out like wtf yeah. That was your big thing. You just like way what was wet. When do I do my big but you do it, but you see I was talking to you write about with almost

everything now was it. Who did you tell me just a moment said that that a movies like a tweet, yeah yeah, he said that no difference animal does no difference within a movie and a tweet right at this point. What are we going to do about that? I dont know if they we gotta play by a different reality. We have to say that that's not reality. I can't take it anymore I can't like I what I've been saying lately is that, like, I think it was better when, when not everyone had a voice? It's like I dunno. If I'd go that far, I like what I'm seeing it in in a specific con. Obviously, I believe in democracy, in that everyone should have a voice, but maybe not a twitter account, or maybe did not we have to engage with every voice. You don't, though I know you don't. I think maybe it lets refrain it I mad at the the shallow way

this and sometimes cruel nature of the voices that feel like they deserve to be heard that better short, another makes sense. It used to be that you'd, like from like the second humans, existed the idle twelve years ago. You'd think I thought, and it would just stay in your head and the worst thing you could think as they will. What, if I let that go from my brain to my mouth here in terms of the people you are in front of It's like further for all of time, people who just let the things either stay in their brain or maybe say it in a group of people, but then now it goes from your brain to your fingers, rife and everybody's in a panic to say the thing as quickly as possible.

things like whether the thought is formed or not or whether they like well, maybe that's the main thing in this actually might put some that's my sometimes I'll just tweet shower. I noticed I cant do twitter anymore. I tweet jokes! Once in a while, and I just feel like I've pulled back, I delete them. Why do you do eat them because they just feel like it's not. Why does this company say that this thing is a permanent record of something like I didn't? That's business model, not mine, yeah like I want. Sometimes you want to say something and you don't want it to stick around more than a day. That's their problem! That's why they have snapchat, apparently so that things

stay for a day and then they're gone they're gone yeah, but so- and I understand that that's I won't do it. I can't do snapchat have seen it and it's not for me. I just there's a point where you just have to go. Now, I'm going to sit this one out. It's basically twitter is now just like some open mic night. That's some company set up and you go up to their they there just like they set up like hey, look he wandered in here for free at Ok, we got mark marin's here tonight. He's gonna be on a show waning. not that good that one tonight Aaron. Fighting with with with acknowledged it about nothing, yeah and he's doing it for our at on our stage it's like for free? How did she get their mark out nothing and you couldn't sleep because you're

I still mad, but thank you for contributing to our company for that. It's like everybody's dancing, I'll make sure to live. Tweet, your insomnia, yeah yeah, that's what that's what it is! That's all anyone's doing is live tweeting their insomnia yeah. It's such a. I feel this funding this one. I wrote to the way. I guess she writes for maybe came worrisome. Molly nor any mcnerney yeah. She retorted. we ve, given everyone an opportunity to express themselves online for for a very long time now, what's plan b, that's great! That is the best way to have read now I don't like. What's it like thing about this, thirty years from now like grandpa. What what did you do when you think why she has seen I used to go on this thing and celebrities had these Go on in just the chip away at them until I finally real one end, and Was one time when I was arguing with which should have seen it

it was like like does it you got it all worked up. Our leaders account so great that was the one It's like it's like the new hole in one like getting somebody to delete their account because you just wouldn't stop annoying them yeah. Well, you know it's different than it was fun yeah. Now we don't know what to when I say now that you don't want to be a long time to frame it like that that no matter how insanely cruel it became or how ridiculous we heard? that was just some idiot trying to get you D, then lose your mind. It's the opposite! It just goes back that thing opposite of love is not hate? It's just this interest and like that, the true opposite of life such as like no hate, is hate and love. It's just attention

Just like your your somebody's levels, spike nea and it just like. I feel something like a man yeah yeah I got em here we go. I gotta get a big one. There near you think, have a system of dealing with it through engagement and then just never pans out and then there's the inevitable. Who years go by then, will you on block me like these? the aid they right right, you're doing something. I said something to you like you know Algona. He was really what I meant and I never was it's exactly what you don't unblock them all unblock them. You do yeah. I I had this one. One time I thought like I said I think I'm just going unblock everybody and I've been out. Benson said bad idea. That is because the guy, why that's like a batman movie work, just like somebody like- throws a switch

the outcome asylum opens in all everybody runs out at once. oh no there is only one by superveillance all same time, now you Dear? What they're all the same? I think it's just many of me on some ways but like obviously being somewhat sarcastic, but I got there's this part of me that, mrs the days when there's just three network and not all the information was out there out there You know in and certainly the the behind this information wasn't the main stream of what information was or just the gossip and speculation wasn't what The mainstream information was it's like young. You can really isolate years. No one needs to be on the same page anymore. Now these to be ok in a way. Maybe we didn't know some shit, but it will work.

To talking about the same thing. Culturally, I would grow agree if it doesn't mean that there's just like this very of evil going on that, like when people just like yeah. You know they are right: beans, the people when we just don't talk about that. We know obviously that them, I think, give and take of that now. I think that, like I'd like journalism and and you know that that element of sort of really journalism and people taking upon themselves to two to sort of seek justice up. That's that sort of a good part of the internet. That's that's! That's! That's enough! That's really revealing in jail! This hypocrisy is great, but the other ninety nine percent of it. That is just a positive false information, conspiracy theories in bullshit and then people who are just working peoples design. Fires in anger and do a froth for certain reasons. On purpose,

Yeah! Maybe a maybe I just came round my brain or on the whole thing, but you also can just say this that this isn't the real world. It's just it's it's it's real. Until you say it's not real and then it's like ok turned out. It wasn't real back yard. just get off twitter, yeah and after maybe a month. I want you to think about it anymore. Then you'll just be like. Ok, there's all these other things about that. Can you do that? I started its is going very slowly. I am not on facebook, anymore yeah, I just don't, go there twitter. I just I I don't see what people tweet anymore. I just I have like a tweet deck thing set up, so I just see what people will tweet to you: okay, zero weaning yourself may be yeah and it just it's. I don't even know

good of a promotional thing. It is when that hold. That seems like something twitter create are now it's like you don't, like you, don't know what someone's feed looks like if they're following two thousand people a year gotta, be in denver and then neo ninety people from number like, I know your come in and mike I tweeted him. I'm sorry and fallen two thousand people yeah pretty quickly. When did you expect me to track? scrolling throw related. Ok when the retweet that ways in LOS angeles so I should go. Go he tweeted. I was asleep when there's so much, but there's so much bullshit to the numbers, the area the this is real life right out here, Tom, that's where it is just behind those windows, people in their sad couches yeah? It's it's! It's! Okay! To not live on the computer and that's I would I'm thinking I've been I've been contemplating it's like. I went, I went with my.

Mother to r to nashville a month ago is just me and my mother, we went for a few days cause. She had never been as like I'll take you and I'll show you, the city and and but she just has like this phone. That just makes phone calls, and I guess she could she could tax on it if she wanted yeah, but I was like yeah. I think that I think I, like your phone better than mine, like my phone first of all, is a terrible phone like iphones are they're bad they're bad as phones via like there's a definite roll back in phone quality. It's like this now lay down with them. Now it is a cause. Any voice breaks up its words is that do happen on yours too, when you weigh down be like, I can't understand evil. Can I have this? I phoned six ass. I guess it was six plus or whatever

like I've, never had more people say like. I can't hear you right now. Area can't was newer phone; ok, that's great. They didn't space. The thing out to where I can hear you and talk to you- doesn't line up where human head you're, holding a book to your air of his eyes were paper vast, like so there's a definite roll back in that they are not that one. These funds now to get rid of like the headphone jack in the next iphones like gives no headphone jack, and I we were, use wireless headphones. I don't wanna use wireless. What about these three hundred dollars? those headphones I bought. I can use with my iphone anymore. I guess I ve pulled out again, but this is gonna, be them the phone's going to come out and they're going to be like yeah. There's no phone on this one. This time, like they're, just going to eventually decide they don't want people making phone calls anymore. Just like now

phone, we will fallen part of the high phone way texting while I was, his home in new mexico, where you know talking to friends of mine from high school and just the idea that yeah. I live down the valley, which is far from my other friends, but there was no fuckin internet. There was no. There was no fuckin cell. Like you had some time ago. High mrs meter is yes, it is kind of there. Ok, I'll Havana? Hey don't I'll meet you at the boy in that was it. That was the last time you communicate with anybody into you, and found them. What are you doing here, imagine, your at a rock show. Log out of the car and some get separated now you're. Just like I really hope. I remember what color shirt he was wearing cause

I don't know. Why did we remembers where the car is after? Because I guess I'm not saying you the exactly an m within somebody's like sitting on the eve of the car for two hours, were you just? Why, like near the whole time. I didn't see it the bands. I thought we were going to go yeah just like it was like that's what it was like just like you couldn't in that guy's got that the other side that story- those assholes, yet you have gone off, there in that they watch in areas like I'm stuck here in the car. With a thing with my Are there he drove, I have gay again in my own car, we're missing now

as it happens anymore sitting alone doing it has now. If you went to meet somebody- and they just didn't show up you just that you use the just- have to go. this is our home on long waiting lists in here. Like they're not going to know. I left and it's like really just playing this. The mist free and no phone delicate. Yes, it does you and your imagination like what the fuck happened. Just what did I do staring at a place? Man on a table I just know: I'm not ready to order, yet it's still one for one other person supposed to be coming just. I know, tying this table up now? Just like, I guess they gotta go yeah. Okay, just buy a coffee to go yeah yeah coffee to go. Oh great thanks, yeah, yeah, alright buddy to talk to it is laughing my ass off

yeah just this is one thing. I I think it's like this, because you have everything doesn't mean you have anything right like I have plenty right, To be grateful. I do over not only grow. Try to be grateful. Sometimes I can sometimes I can get so in touch with being grateful and its if it's a so comfortable whatsoever and then there's other times or just like. I can not feel the granite How, like now knows a horrible and just what do you want me like its irritated with driver will boost to think about what you got don't, have anything, that's the problems like. I do think about that, and I literally nothing, and then you go look at your record logos guy owing to my car. Well, there's one thing: you have that those hundreds of thousands

if people in america just saying like a car, if I only had a car right, I could go get that job and then I could get out of this elsewhere. It's a living hell meanwhile I'm just like I'm going to get my car and go my stupid car is filthy in the back seat cause I had all the stuff. I was throwing out all over the back seat. So I will try more aggressive

idea.