So we're close if you ve been listening to this show since to begin. Of this show, you know that we always talk about the oscars, I mean every year it it is a cultural. stint on this show, because I reminisce about the old oscars. I I I I am always excited at the pageantry of the oscars. In fact, We just did a bonus episode about the oscars for full marin subscribers I talked with brendan about this, We have the academy awards and we went through some of the best picture. Winners at are still very important us forest gump schindler's list, on forgive in the silence of the lambs and dance It was this Streamline tough for me between two, my boy, you now I gotta go them forgiven.

that was my eye- was between that and silence and silence a really yeah Why was really hard, but I had to really like you know, think if, both of these are on at the same time, and I could only as one which I mean to be honest with you. I will she unforgiving anytime. I come upon it and all that watch it on purpose, at least once a year, because again, hollywood studying film, you, know westerns in general. It it's like one. a satisfying movies ever made, that is our very, very rewarding from that perspective of a dsl deconstruction sure of the traditional yeah, exactly smart movie, but silence I like that movie, I love it. You know, I noticed too that I think I'm a bit of a sucker for like this performances within movie

instead have hooks re like I will go back to that movie over and over again, because I just want to see what hopkins did. I want to see what foster did and levine yes, ted levine, yeah yeah, I mean like I. It was weird because I remember having a conversation with some woman who thought that your anthony hopkins was so interesting in that movie and I'm like what about TED Levine and she's like oh gross, and I'm like why but I mean I will say I think I'm somewhat I like there's dares pardon me that I've by buttressing up against the fact that, like for a long time. I, like friends of Mine- and I would like do the buffalo bill voice for each other, and I start to wonder, am my like. Am I doing this for the wrong reasons like do I just like it, because I want to be able to goes you gruber from persian somebody,

Well, I just there there were moments in his performance that were truly what they would call cringe now, but a in retrospect yo showed a profound, disturbing vulnerability. Like irene think he stepped on the the oh yeah out on the wire with that performance. Whereas everything is anthony. Hopkins was you know he was an alpha monster. Whereas tat is this strange? you're a morpheus, sexually fucked up person you're trying to complete himself, somewhere, we I was like wow and jody- fosters genius yeah, and I love that movie. But I amazing honest I mean all I watch him forgiven over and over again, if just that watch, you know Clint eastwood walk into that bar, shoot cacti, maybe do anything damn little. What's his name, o sol reuben address all reuben egg. I am I'm shot, I'm

Didn't you see that guy, like on the bench outside your hotel or somethin yea was very nice. I said I'm a big fan he's like nah nah. If you want to hear us, go through several decades of best picture winners, back to the sixties and get into the dubious origins of the oscars as well? Listen to the rest of that episode on the full marron which you can subscribe to by clicking on the link in the episode description, but right now we'll get you prepped for the oscars this sunday. With this compilation of talks I had with this year's oscar nominees, you can go back and listen to the full ep. roads with these twelve nominees whenever you want, but we figured. Why not put the conversation about their nominated work all in one place, so first will hear clips My interviews with Michel yo, the Daniels, Daniel kwan and daniel shiners about everything everywhere: all at once, Michel was nominated for best actress

Daniels are nominated for best picture best, director and best original screenplay. It was doing crazy, which agencies when I was doing the aid that present things like this set, and I was sent this script to an ice. I read it and you know I've been in the business long enough to go. This could be it's it's so wacky is so out there. You know how we always say: I want something. This original come on totally original and also poised. All you strains respects where you're right your career now give you an opportunity to do. Dramatic role with some depth and any sort of adults, since the idea of your you're, not an asian george, an actor, a woman in it with his fist. a situation that is not uncommon too many women of all kinds, and yet there his whole other ellen, to it. Then you have the skill set to do it all thinking, cable! Thank you for a period

together yes and you, you know you're. My first instinct was like these two Daniels. Please let them beast, you know, Genesis and not may are geniuses, they are, they are so attuned to the balance of chaos. Yeah. You know it's like respite in all this and is like how do you make? It is it's ok to laugh, yeah, ok to laughingly seller and how absurd this hope is it. Our world is chaotic. You know if you look at it. Yes and yes, we can communicate with each other is call what generational trauma. Sure right here and all the young people are like out. There lies the everything is in their face. Ever the flick of the cause in the past that the last generation didn't really get to travel, they focus on. How do we make a better life? You say that you have a better life right, but now with a flick of the finger there in asia,

in bali. Therein haunt you know they can go, they travel there may be exposed to so many things. They always feel that. Why are you so critical of me? You always tell me I don't know what I'm doing I'm wrong. It's almost like I'm, just not good enough for you right, I'm just like useless, so they get india heads, whereas the the parents, especially the immigrant parents, is like the is like the do all it can do they are they american or the asian. How do and Do they have to choose your big? They are aged america's right, they are and I hold in algeria. They don't have to be ashamed, but in the past it was like fit in just fitting that people. Don't think your weird. You know where I had always said.

that you got us ass, some yeah, that that internal conflict that the earth and then they also have a problem of communication with their parents, music in asia. Parents don't communicate how they don't know how to say what I love you, I think a grade. I think they'll be you're getting fat marilla. You need to cut your hair. He resource terrible year ended bud deck. The motivation is, I just want you to be better, because I know you can right, but it is just that it doesn't come out like that more than sixty when I go My mama lay out my clothes for me and I like it. I think I can threaten myself at this point. I say: why didn't you call me a handler boy still in also what you're saying about the the younger generation is that that is the point of view of the two Daniels right does so they are able to have the freedom of mind in terms of imagination. That is thoroughly modern and- and

that restriction right and also they have very strong mothers say, guided one smothers like powerful and they're surrounded by the the wives of golf, and you know that they are independent, walking women who are very successful with what they do. So you know it's like they see this and that they're going like we have to pay respect and it's, I think, if they did when they first started off. Yes, they wrote the the ice. I tease them You wrote and generic action felt by eroding our guy here, which is the normal thing thrive, that's why you know normally a you: don't get a script where it's already written for a woman, it's already like that. Did they run it for a guy that had the getting around they threw it away. So they ve been working on this for five years.

So when they. Finally, you know they said you know what we're just gonna like sit down, throw away and then put in everything that you know when you, when you are young here and it's like this is the time when you go for it sure hungry and everything that people say you can't do you shouldn't do right and you go why not unless find platform, and they were so smart with multiverse. Yes, like a science fiction aiding goes right. I can't let my mind go you're, obviously I said and which they did crazy. With an you when you're reading it like hot dog fingers, It's all there. You know the body parts yeah yeah the bug plugs here there, their yeah yeah. I believe, as you read all this, you know it's like is very easy to see. Superficially yes, wacky is light, were really weird, but the core of it that resonates. You know that the hardness b

thing is family, never giving up on family and actually turn around and say whatever you are, However, you are it's enough and I will do whatever universe. I will always want to be, with you right here, I think it was what it reached out to people through an unconditional love of hamel. If it's possible, which is hard and nothing is easier, does your mother, actor and everything everywhere all at once, I mean completely, let's do do we do. We want to get into it It is only right that, like that, really that dynamic totally the week. We realized, while writing it, that, like the character of Joe boom, the kind of villain is like the character, of all of our movies yeah you know and that the the the evelyn is our parents yeah, and it's just like this- is this weird unhinged thing and then the parent is

Why why? What is ironic outwardly pursuing you? No idea she is the weird music video to teach the part of the seas in our type of you guys, exactly especially our work we are to work right tends to be our weirdest version of ourselves that we, like them and this is in me, you know, but it's like every parent's nightmare to to see their kid gloves a world and represent things until they represent something that they they did. Not think was a part of them yeah, like you know my dad actually showed it turned out for what to Workers and their alike. Are you embarrassed and light? So grappling with those ideas, the movies and about our parents and send small ways learning to x. and their minds to be able to include all of the messy unexpected parts of us and about the kid yearning to give the parent some space and grace yeah vienna? So this This is the sea, but this is story by gear you start with with this movie? Is it there is a story there

the basic about mayo parents and kids in about the strain that parents really you just go through male and female rose, and then the immigrant experience, I guess you can, if you pay the movie without any of what you guys do they'd be like. Well, that's that sounds like an interesting emotional movie, totally miserable on the next one. Ask us like how did you pitch everything everywhere and we're like this is pretty easy. I know cause we're like we're like hey. Were the farting corpse guys this one's about a mom going on an action, adventure story and learning to for family. If they're like, oh, my god that sounds marketable guide you here, you got over the more authority weird and they were like. Oh just way with this time it just takes a little longer and then things going but scene. I think we realise the film was gonna, be about just generation gaps in general prayer. Every generation has to do with it, but what makes this generation gap between millennials and boomers? So

Unique in within the context of history is the fact that millennials are the first. Generation that grew up on the internet and for tat parents not understood what it was like to be able to just accidentally, fall into all sorts of awful terrible things when you're. Ten years old me, I'm in and the fact that may have a new growing up. That is a very bizarre generation gap, and we realise the multiverse was a really good place for us to explore. That was what drifting too and I'm just thinking about it, now because conversation my producer yesterday, just about that that generation is now becoming adverse to emotions that you know when they use words. I cringe or awkward, oh yeah, that you know it's really in reaction of vulnerability. So there's a garden. This that's happening. Engaging in true emotional vote woody little disconcerting, and I think that there is something to that the movie that what you come around to is is is acceptance and and

real ability on both parts right holders. Yeah reflecting on the cringe thing is, is interesting because when you live your life on mine end and in social circles that for the most part, especially They are driven by algorithms. There is no grace for any mistakes, so that is, I think that is why people are so guarded and that's why people like when eat. When you want someone us make a mistake on online, you feel their pain you fit in the EU. I never want that to happen to me and so suddenly you have a whole generation of people who are fearful of looking like they made a mistake or fearful of being the cringe personal mine. It's like, its problem is how they can exist in relationship now how they can identify. You know. Evolving vulnerability. How do you grow ass? A person if you, if you're just a year, you're transferring the possibility of own mistakes. I somebody had actually happens to her and you live in fear of dire how'd. You develop. You have to listen to your pockets

whittier. I think like on the other side like the internet has started to celebrate mental health, Vulnerability is barely in ways that are like all cool like like. I sometimes wonder if, like yeah millennials are gonna, be the jaded ones, but the kids are going to be like vulnerable, is here and where they are thinking about like with our movie, I you know we never expected. The thing that would go viral with kids would be selfies of them. Crying the eta like on tik tok people would postal yet selfies of like how much they cried at our movie, and that was the thing

and share oh and I was like whoa, I thought they'd be talking about yeah. That was the thing tickets, because then someone be like. Oh, why is everyone crying at this movie? I gotta go watch. This gives him permission to have the emotions that they're usually shamed. I guess majorly cool, but it was beautiful. I was like, oh my god, that's so cool. I thought we we had to sneak the the right, the emotion in there, but the emotion became the thing that the selling point. Well, that's interesting, because it's not like you know one's at risk, if somebody shares it like this thing made me do this and then everyone's sorta like well, I kind of want to do that. If it's safe to do it yeah totally wild yeah. But if you didn't cry, that's fine, too yeah. Some people I cried every year I don't know why that happens, but it's out of his great others, always kind I gotta do you know, doesn't say I love that you can hear those for talks on episodes. Fourteen eleven and fourteen twelve.

Next, we ve got the nominated cast members from the whale brendan. Frazier is nominated for best actor and hung. Chow is nominated for best supporting actress. Here we go in talking to these individuals with outside of abuse, of adults, whizzer, usually a history of other trauma, I mean I didn't get into those areas that there were uncomfortable with, where I think we can all a test that there are overlaps in those he added issues, trauma, reactionary, yeah I don't know how to answer that one, but I think that the very interrelated there, because, like it's interesting, in the movie that you know that the story unfolds in the in the second or that the third

the last third of the movie your pieces fall into place to that sort of define some of your characters, emotional and behavior in england, because it's a very I don't want to spoil the movie for anybody yeah, it's very specific reaction to somebody dying in a certain way, but but it seems like the issues were their previous right. agri. Any you dont know what happens after whatever happens at the end of this movement is important. It's not important in there there. I don't even know if you would say it's hopeful, but it does release us those for all the screening save attended with a question answer period afterwards I mean it's almost like a troll, in hollywood- like oh, my god, there are tears in me, as I'm sure blah blah blah blah, but seriously people stay rooted to the spot or even if the credits have rolled or yeah

clap some sob and hold each other. I knew the first timeless this movement I mean it. I wish I were. I had been seriously and move the chest. Peace. Is around on the board and he and throw the border and guy. I think about this, the more I definitely had two. I had a feeling of you. I just felt like you really It is gathered yourself after this and for reasons you might not even know why, and maybe it's not that important for sure it. It is. If I was just saying, if I you know, if I do come out to an audience who has seen it the first thing I You're, a joke about like is ever duquesne ha ha, but you know certainly some people are triggered by what goes on and end You know it's an emotional body blow for for many people, but it's also a catharsis that I think is like I. I seen it in cinema. After all,

in time and I'm I'm screwed. I help me out james graduated, like what steel magnolias winded people really for whatever reason I come down relative yeah. Well, I mean this one, complicated because you're not like just and you know like a dying of hands occur, it's not terms of endearment, you know it's it's it's it's it's an aggravated and a painful process of of of self annihilation and and and grief. I mean they're, there seems to be a lot of grief in the air generally speaking right now, you know after covered in after you know, whatever we went through as a country in the world and what we are going through, the nether world is dying and there's no there's no way to two. After a certain point, avoid that reality striking grief in and of itself, whether your, however its its grounded in whatever character situation. He is speaking of the human spirit right now right so I mean

when you say triggered by cause like me, yeah, I would be somebody who is severely triggered by by food issues, but it, but that's not that that is not what we got me emotionally. What got me emotionally was was just that need for redemption. And you know, and also the fact that. he's out of his shame, thought that he deserved what was happy and I think that people struggle with their secrets and with their you know, they're on unprocessed grief and with their their own shame about how they behaved every day. So this spectrum

triggers you know is, is something so here it's hard to know coming out of that. What would cause anybody? You know to react to it, but it is a human existentialist, true reaction- speaking of existential atavism, we all lived under that clearly with covered at will. here are tomorrow right next week, weeds hers. I you about seriously. We know we were scared, fear, but I mean we shooting during that yeah. That was a covert foam. I'll show you you, oh my god, so unhappy with the prosthetic you had did mask up in. pfizer abbott. I couldn't everybody else did. But I couldn't chasm, I won't say fortunate, but I guess I was pre disaster, because I got it like that new airy february by yet he added that before the vaccine, India has actually get. I lost smell, taste, serious, brain fog,

I'm back. I've got it several times since then. Actually, I'm moving forefingers a really really like you smell back the other came back out of remedies, righteous ass might as well have been At one point I was like what is going on and has to dodge, but she a Yip there's so much. We don't know about this, that's neurology where you re right and if you are right now, yeah yeah yeah. That role was not written for an asian person yeah, it was a play originally oliver, the production. Did you see the play? No, I didn't, and that's the fat thing about living in l a is that you miss a lot of therapy, that's true on in new york, but in all of the stage productions the character had been played by a white actress and even when I was up for the part, the other names of the other actresses that my agent told

He was in the running day they weren't asian, so I thought you did a great job with would thank you. I liked the movie and it was painful. You and I talk to bring it about It now is heavy man who is a heavy conversation, he's heavy character as a person. While these extremely thoughtful and philosophical you're, so you're in in right now you little heavy metal. yeah. But it's not. I like that too Sometimes I struggle with the very you know like late. cheerful, oh yeah, yeah know, but like we got into some stuff, you know cause I I was brought up with a certain amount of food awareness, because my mother had an eating disorder. So, like you, I found it affected me in an odd way.

like when I watch the movie and then when I talk to him about you, know the nature of of the condition he was in When I watch the movie, I didn't get hung up on that. You know. I really got very quickly into the this emotional content of of the characters so, and I was interesting to me- I wasn't marvelling at the other condition, but I was sort of engaged with with the emotional interaction and your character in the twisted. And was a? U totally worked on me, you, I know it movies very supportive device of the absent either people love it or the hatred but the one thing they got me about. The film was that your characters demonic, enabling demonic I haven't. that but yeah enabling yeah she's any enable area, but there was there

points there was in anger to it. There was you there was a defensive. Is too it where you would stop other people from stepping in to help this guy. Because you know you knew him better than anybody else, and you knew in in your heart that never nothing going change it. I love that you saw that because I think most people think that shoes she was sweet or something, and I that that I always struck me, do not did do not represented at all. I was like okay yet. I believe that that is something you're, not engaging with the movie. I mean I like tonight no, no AL, I'm not putting in position. We have to judge critics by, but the but like right, in the get go unlike what the fuck is up with this person, because you don't find out your backstory or his really until the third act really right but like I knew right away, unlike what. Why doesn't someone stop this woman from feeding him here? What is her problem? How it in

and then the weird kind of emotional conflicted nis of your relations, with him. I don't know why I found it to be disturbed and deep and an nuance: do now: waited I mean. How did you approach that character? and its aware question, but I mean I guess, demonic, enabling was not foreign. How really? How shall I m I am I've been witness to the house that type of relationship in my life and your family in my family, and yet that part did not I didn't really have to struggle. Where did you get it right when I already got it immediately, yeah, and and also that

that wanting a box out other people and wanting to be the only person in her life. That's where I had that sort of connection. In that really ship and control in some ways. Rollin and there's like something a little bit selfish. In that totally totally I mean yeah, I mean that your co dependencies, weird thing brandons full interview is episode. Fourteen of four and hung chow is episode. Fourteen fourteen next its austin butler, now the native for best actor and Elvis gonna call a buzz is making a phobia, I'd there was one moments where you know. There are certain times. Were you just you just that's it said once in a lifetime experience sure this is the. all of a life tat. If, if it goes poorly, You are probably never work again here, but if

as well. This this could be something very special if workers poorly the idea. None. I remove. If making this, if sure enough, I can lay Elvis and of yet it that's really bad, yeah the stakes are high and there's so many ways in which you can go wrong. Of course, as so many cars when you deal with known people, yeah hey how you gonna like it, it's it's tricky man yeah, because people, no, the guy was so that the actual dish in a way that it did It was I, sorry. I hear me making a failure. I start preparing for it. You know, and I knew that I had some time does he stood no was gonna play parker right at times year, so I know that I had some time as he was trying to figure out who is gonna play poker. And so I started just preparing as though I was gonna play the part where I watched every documentary and read every book and started listening,

every one of Elvis's, songs and chronologically net golden book, yeah right there and and then you know listen to the archives of his interviews and everything, and I just sort of felt like a detective, you know trying to find the truth of whoever was a human fear and dumb a process. I learn certain things like Elvis's mom, passed away when he was twenty three right as exactly hours when my mom died and there's these certain things that suddenly made him a real person to me oh that's interesting as you are wasn't so much at the relationship with with you, her mother with similar to his, but the fact that you both lost your mother, yeah, I gave you an emotional point of reference year. And I knew the truth of what he has the same age here at the exam samurai and he and he was very close with his mom as extreme close to my mom. So there's there's things that

He was strangely closed word. He was one psychologists, call them leisurely and mashed. Yes You know that there are interesting. They were incredibly, an enemy from a young age. He was use he use oscillating between being the child being the caregiver right or even three years old people would say that, would watch him run around like a lightning bolt to your house and then come up to his mother and patterns. I can get you in it. can I get you anything you? Why do you care for his mother, but then he would be the child, and while back and forth rear well, yeah bordering on creepy were here. Hello, miss wanted so yeah, so you're doing all this crap and and The audition go within them I sent by the type of me singing unchecked melody air. and that resonate with him, and then and there I I went into Denise sir, are casting director and we read.

the scenes and sent him a tape of may doing. The sands can you do in the accident? You? Don't you d, better yeah? I am doing my best to try to do everything right Then he and they said you know, I want you to flatter me- work and meet with me here and so when I met him at his house in new york, and we just talked for hours and talk about three hours about life in Elvis and is the eyes and then, and then he said, you wanna commend him on read some scenes from the script here and and maybe sing a song. I came in the next day to his office in brooklyn and and and re read, and we just down with the script and read and then and then I sang, don't be cruel or something right and then he said What are you coming to morrow and will reach more. The script. Man maybe sing suspicious minds right So then that night I went for an age. I start practising suspicious mise all night near

I was also not a singer before this, so I saw you knowledge was trying to do my best to z, ass closely ass possible, so process went on for five months with others just kind of you know, and some was we make our week without seeing are there any say you want to come in here. Maybe try this sea area, and so we just kept chipping away because there is, lot of questions of you know at that I was twenty, seven and thirty one. Now we there is the question of cannot play old around us in that even possible waving in new york at the front go was writing this guy kind of looks like august there was enough of a similar right. You know because, like you, gotta be close, you gotta be close enough here right here, like in- and I think it was you know, then experiences are filling the gaps of your capacity in his mind, like a by challenging it with all these different songs different ages.

and different different temperaments yeah. He was reminding me the other day of of he wanted in her rehearsal. We, I mean do the scene where our I get angry. You know at around the time. It then he's trying to take my money where everything so He gave at that time. He had the idea of me point a gun on him, and so he gave me a hair brush and were doing this and- and so I just came out with everything that I have a lifetime's work, your lifetimes worth of aggression, air was able to come out in that and now something about officer. You know you learn when you read a lot about him is that when, when he had a temper here his whole demeanor change tat. He could go for me sweet and then having quantify out Oh then, energy that goes into the charisma going and anger area. So that was so. It was so we just try to file each other's push me in every way

austin butler is on episode. Fourteen thirteen, now we get to my coat are into leslie andrea. sparrow, who is nominated for best actress, be right now and again distributor dropped the ball and give me a facility hating, something that would bring more attention to we need to sort of like one. Eighty, it's gonna like that that happen, and now this movie, the struggling with a hundred percent run tomatoes scores that everyone should seek is the work you did the work we all did is now. You know it's been hobbled by the people that are responsible for putting it out there I think you know I haven't the more transparent we are about. It the better the was peter dont quite understand is that that there is no unequal, does not equal footing for everyone and that's not because of huge hundred million data them publicity budgets. That's because the literally isn't equal footing. and we operating in a system where everything costs something

Even suggests just you film, to an awards, yeah platform here and If people are aware of that, other the as they're always have been a few, a few players that have a lot of power, and those always change they revolving chain. But I think one of the most sad things is an analysis n, also like as dangerous things is this assumption. that we know what an audience once you are not one of the most who exactly and who are those people that decide that what are the numbers? What's the mathematics, most just people that are afraid of losing their jobs like constant conversation or industry, you want to see something new, so you bring something new and they say we haven't seen it before, because there's going to be who who the audience who's attached yeah and it's it's actually a. I think, a huge judgments on Not a cinema goes but consumers it. You know at large.

I hear so many times people saying nothing to watch when that, when the so much as as we know so much, being made all the time forth, but that's because only these certain things get through and I think people get all over wound and exhausted by the choices. So you have to be, someone has to guide them somewhere, they do. But it's it's it's the height of I mean it. It it it's evil. I mean the record starvin euro area. The amount of Things that are being made- and I a lot of the time, unfortunately things and background noise, and then and then maybe ten twenty percent that gets through. That's like really tested, quality and, and that's wonderful and but one of the things that I love. Is that the some of the great filmmaker makers like in too and.

I mean there's some so many like him now all being championed by those big platforms on being allowed to do what they want to do you not our endeavours andrea, full interviews on episode. Fourteen hundred. Ok nominated for best screenplay. This is Sarah polly writer and director of women talking, which is also nominated for best picture. When I initially watch the movie, a couple of things We sort of the different points of view of all the women in relation to the rapes within their community. You know I mean I I I guess we should set it up a little bit. It's a minute. Are they mennonite mennonite community, where many of the women were drugged with bovine tranquilizers and raped by some of the men in?

right that went on for years in the middle of the night, and this is is this based on a true bizarre, true story that happened in a mennonite colony in Bolivia, from two thousand and five to two thousand and nine two thousand and ten, and it a the the film is based on a novel by miriam taves and the novel is a response to those true life event. So it doesn't cover those events. Those events are not in the film it's about this imagined response by the women of the community where they sit down and have this debate about whether or not they should stay and fight for a different kind of colony, whether or not they should stay and do nothing and forgive the men, there being instructed by the elders or whether they should leave and create their own colony. So this is an imagined debate that takes place in this hayloft about how to respond and watch, me about the presentation of it is like what are you going to make a theatre theatrical version of it because it plays like a play just by nature of the setting

yeah, I mean, I think it would be great as a player as well yeah I mean the. I was determined to make the film as cinematic as possible, but absolutely it could be a play as well, because it's it's like it's it's kind of loaded up like a play, yeah that is sort of like we're going to reckon with this year and the one man in you know who is as a secretary and a listener. It was. That was a very delicate balance of of acting. You know in the face of of rage or complacency or or or subverted rage that that guy has to sort of represent that sex yeah I did a very good job, but when I started thinking about today in retrospect and after reading the book, a couple of things that you know the the nature- and you addressed it a little bit before of what I I I sort of started to think of as institutional gaslighting-

and then in the way, out of our own fear that we gaslight ourselves into thinking. and I'm just drawing that word around because it it seems to have a very specific meaning. But why can't we broaden their because I mean insight No gas. Writing is the nature of religious belief in a way right, Yeah I mean, I think it as in it in a society like you know the one in the film where structures of power here become kind of this corrupted. I tend to sort of parts out the faith from The structures work, as I think that you know what the women in the film doing isn't actually trying to abandon their faith in their religion, their actually trying to you how to get closer to it with intent. pretty, which means throwing off the structures that have sprung up around it and the sort of power grabs and higher costs are higher.

because higher up yeah, you know what I'm going to get her up on the word hierarchy of power that have sprung up around it and but also their their personal morality. As women in that type of community becomes corrupted because of the the need for them not to take action yeah, and so they have to kind of go well. How do we had a wii, a true to our faith. The way we understand it and how is that different from what we ve been taught and what's been handed down to us, and so in order to forgive which what's being demanded of them with no account ability and no healy, by other women by women. In that the conversation that's half, he has no men and yet so any of that hierarchy, vat is male based is being manifest in in women who

I believe it believe it or are in relationships where they have no power and feel there is no option sap to accept it, except to forgive right, and so I think what these Women kind of are wrestling with his this notion of forgiveness and what it means to them how they might come to that in a real way, and the first step that has to be taken is to get out of harm's way, and this can step has been taken, is how do we imagine a colony where. These things are not allowed to happen again, we imagine an equitable society, one in which we're making decisions collectively and have a voice so that forgiveness becomes this evolving there's an evolution of the meaning of the word into something, much richer and more complex? And bishop S, then simply forgiving. It's about We create the conditions in which one day we might be able to forgive and what has to happen for that to be possible. Sarah polly is on episode of fourteen, oh three, another

after we had on his todd field, he's nominated for best picture best, director and best original screenplay for tar, not knowing about that world and the way they? U captured it through her and through you know, the detail was, was pretty fascinating. To me the classical music were I, it is a fascinating world. I I mean I felt the same way to be my telling getting into how do you see it I see it differently every time you know, and I don't mean to be coy or cuter about it. I mean that for real. Like you know, I want one when we started editing. The film were part of the deal. As part of the deal was making the film as I I was the only american I had to work with, everyone had to be in europe and, and so those were all new people Monica willie, my editor with someone who had wanted to work with four about over fifteen years, and we ve been talking about it for a long time, but we stress to edit with which she lives. Vienna, yeah, vienna, lockdown, london, locked down and so

wound up in the middle of scotland, in I'm, in the middle of nowhere yeah on the fifteen country nunnery, and neither one of us drive on the right side of the road. So we we just work seven day weeks and- and we would walk, and we are in the I'm in the middle of nowhere. We walk four and a half miles every day and then we'd go to work and and when we got to the point where we is a screening, a run of the film every every time we would do that. We would turn to each other and say: how did you feel about her today or you know, and our feelings about her would change all the time, sometimes based on the cut, sometimes based on the time of day, sometimes based on him, whether he retired you know so I you know my impressions about about this character are fairly fluid depending on

I, the last time I've seen the film interesting and in the I could see that like. I know that if I wash it again, it'd be different, and would you tell kate, you know in the way that you like to work with actors? Would you lay down for well again, I mean sort of liked how filmmakers talk to each other. We don't we just talk about practical things, sure that you have to get done. I mean kate and I had met ten years before that on this project that I'd written with joan didion and that what happen and no one was excited as joan and and kate, and I were about it and and it was, it was a period thing, so it was just no one to give us the money. We would have needed to have made it, but but I knew in talking about that character and the material with her that I was talking to like you know. One of the great minds yet that I'd ever come across and to me that really looks it,

the film in a holistic way out way outside their character. So our initial conversations were like that it was not sort of like how do you play this character was more about that the thing the thing it's this thing where we we want to accomplish- and at least you know from day one and of course that changes as as your as you're continuing that conversation. But now, the things that she had to master were were self evident. You know, so there's no point in me talking to her about any of that. I knew conducting she left while conducting learning to play bach on the piano doing an american accent making german stunt driving all those things are the sort practical thing she would have to learn you know, and so so she did I mean we had a year before we started rehearsal in berlin, and so she made to other films and in that period of time, and she would finish a day, work and care,

from Budapest or whatever we get on the phone, and we just start talking about things or she would have a or she would be doing zoom lessons with someone should be doing piano lessons, and so our time she turned up in august, we had a say about three weeks together in berlin, but in terms of the character in terms of the actual they all that groundwork had been laid it in and by the time we got into it. It was in the way that I would like to work is you know I were. We were here cs and at the beginning, the day we were hearse again alone, and then we bring the crew in and show them what we ve done, an essay. Ok, the cameras gonna go over there.

It's only twenty nine million needle it's three feet: high, zero tilt and in the shot's gonna go from this. To that you know, and and that way, especially for a piece like this, where you're following a single character- and it was important not to have any safety net for her. So it really is a very it's a very theatrical kind of film. It is almost like watching a play in many respects here are places where it's not that you know, but but it really is sort of like giving this. You know bull in a china shop a container to to do whatever that bull is going to do right. Yeah! Oh, my god wait was, I just waited at the beginning what was he to her assistance in Francesca? Is she texting? Christa, maybe I mean yeah. I may have certainly possible here.

You can hear the rest of that conversation with todd field on episode. Fourteen o one another best origin, screenplay nominees ryan johnson, whose nominate For glass onion, it seems like you know you took on this comrade head on in niger. I give this was a mansion, here's a family if it felt like here, but you tweet it here and you they were higher stakes. I think the the dialogue, was there had a better clip, then he all tiny ones here, but the challenge was for you to sort of own that particular form yeah? I mean I, you know of done cannon, movies, indifferent genius before him? For me, it's it's kind of em. I am not so for me, it sort of about having a after that, I grew up loving for ya, so I got an emotional connection to it and all are all I'm trying to do really. I I'm

and to do as cannot connect back up in the most direct way to what I love about a year on the screen and but that with the genre that has kind of layers of veneer over it. Over the years we have seen it a bunch yeah yeah, together, and you gotta shake it lily, gotta tweak it I mean a big part of it with these ones is just setting them in modern day america. You know so many whodunits I'd seen over the years and loved our period pieces served in england. So just like. Alright, it's forget time. witness it's it's set in america right here right now and for europe Do what the old mansion yeah ad aware of euro area trappings of well with this one, though I may, as entered there's there's you know that there is kind of like

the whole sub genre of the vacation mystery. You know you think about like death on the nile evil under the sun the last year, Sheila yeah there's a lot of them. Now I mean there isn't a movie. The chef movie, oh yeah, I haven't seen it yet white lotus is, is really sand and sandler's a mystery thing is kind of like a yeah. It's a it's a whole thing. The destination murder, though so there there's a tradition of it, though he asked that, but that's interesting yeah. So so this was really more of like a compound situation like people are sort of in an in and uncombed double place now or a place, it's beautiful. That becomes horrible because someone's dead now, not really it's kind of this one for you like it, in approaching it. As a writer I mean the other, most family yeah. The other one was about property being left about a will yet so like this was

the entire device and and this this sort of genre buttons word not there yeah, it's this one is, but at the same time there are other one said: I'm lina nozzle with this one I mean. First of all, it was about a group of a group of friends with another trope of of the murder mystery thing, which But may I had like a lot of christy's stuff. It's just people live in the same town or people are vaguely can so even just having a group of friends who are trapped together on that island gives me kind of a density that, like the area, really helpful right, but then yeah lean, and I mean it's all like with who done this all about the power structure. It's all about group assess rights, yeah yeah. I have a microcosm of society, paris, virus are extra somebody at the top that needs to die around her. And this one it was clicking in kind of ok, it's a tech billionaire up at the top, so that kind of mixed

like you, this group of friends- I am. We can talk about this now that and then it kind of israel can the folds and we what was it about the idea of so many breakable things like if you are right at the beginning of the movie, are sort of like well there's a lot of glass and it's not just a place, but all the sculptures that you know that. For some reason it's check ups glass trinkets. Basically, if its philip, I hear the notion that kind of I own, I may like, like the I'll try not to like spoil if they were unless they are using a ballet in other. I like that idea that we have said, the unkind of very much follows what miles broadway edward northern character describes as disruption, which is youth. You now breaking see. Star

directing staff at vermont, okay, yeah yeah, it's also cheesy art. He told the oh yeah, you would that's the thing you've been staring at those things the whole week, the whole movie on their cheese was a little pedestal, say yeah. I want, and by the way, the actors. By the time we got to the end of shooting in that set, we had on that set for like two months. They were like dead he turned round these fucking things that were dying to start speciale. Those so is cathartic how they did. It allows the arrows like calling on membrane outlined by these good range in his on episode. Thirteen ninety three finally will go all the way to the beginning of last year. For two nominees from the fable means I spoke with tony inter who nominated her best original screenplay an judd Hirsch's nominated for best supporting actor? The thing would Spielberg start with you guys I went when angels in america, Michael's version came out on h b Maybe you're right thing happen on you know a movie or a tv show or something come out. You get caught.

from producers who say: let's have breakfast sir. I got a call from Gabby Kennedy: signals have bread, is not going to be in new york and I'd like to meet you and you just meet and you have breakfast and they say what are you doing? You say what what are you doing? and I said, kathy. What are you guys working on and she said, were pregnant? you for human, stephen and that working on two films One is the murder, the israeli athletes at the munich olympics in urge you to too, and the other is adapted doris kerns, good ones, book forthcoming budgets. rivals about Abraham lincoln, as it goes a great projects, yeah and then right about to leave. I said you know- I just published I edited with a friend, Alisa solomon. Ecology of essays about these really palestinian conflict called wrestling design, and I said I'm really proud of the book and if you as are going thing about the miracle.

it's massacre, maybe you find stuff evaluated. So if you'd like I'd, be happy to send it to you, and I did- and I thought well, that's the end of that yeah and then two weeks later, I got broncos spielberg innocent. I just read and say that I really like the marriage, you about the script and we got together. You send me the script I read it. We talked about it and then he said. Would you like to try and write your own version of it? And I said yes, Now we just this summer finished our fourth movie together. We'll coming out in thanksgiving which watch movies at its his childhood, we run alarm Zoom, justly where there are no kidding during lockdown rerouted, its the fastest thing I've. Ever we covered the script together, it's about stevens. a child at the beginning. That is already up and running around like this super, a camera, zebra camera and then sixty millimeter in Gaza his parents, parents, marriage, falling apart

interesting turns and pulled an hour in it and and Seth rogen, and it's a I'm very excited about it. What's your amazing, So when he finally doesn't autobiographical picture and eg, he do to to help them out I would like is his shrink. You ve done the voice over yeah yeah yeah quite a bit. I mean I was up for living on it at one time really, when ninety seventy three will actually from the eight till about seventy three. Some found me they are in New york, I believe I mean I still to me still mr yeah I was chicken ran off broadway off broadway ugly and I got or from somebody got to the universal casting office here york they had one year the universal studios, university, has had a castings a service.

by giving you a new york appear, the ladys name, I believe, with some dorothy kill gallon or her sister and sound familiar because she was a sword. Scandal, writer and well? Ok I'll get the keel, gowns, and so I came to this office and she hands me this big tone and she said would you go in the other room and read that and tell us if you think you are you can't you they are correct. So what you're looking for some First talking jewish lawyer if this was new york, yeah yeah fast talking, Jews, new york, jewish lunar new year, judd do it, but she didn't know why. I have no idea how I got it. Believe me, I just was a phone, I go in the other room, iranians call the law here. It's like it was fresh. when a half hour, television movie, I had no idea that it was going to be a who else was up for the pot had no idea, I'm in new york they're casting in l a here

the biggest names you ever heard wanted the part, but I know that until after it was not here- and I thought- carried. This is very good news like into edna themselves amy. Okay, so I commend didn't even finish reading. It was too long there I said yeah. I think so. She said good now like to introduce the people in in the office. She takes me the walk around the office said she came to a little office, tiny office with a desk in a man, be higher. The man is Steven, Spielberg really deal ngos, twenty He was doing Joyce He had jaws on his desk. Look as you too, and this is MRS peel back he's going to be very big and walked on. He went like this. He he had the paperback book heat know the script or the script. Okay was already directing okay. He was going to directorate that mom right. Nineteen. Seventy three for fifty years later, which just happened this past year as Spielberg, calls me

right and says what I do apartment on a movies doing about his own family cry out about from who just told me about it. There any kosher tonic oh yeah, tony wrote it so you weapon you're playing in a movie. Its demise unusual completely different part from anything. In the movie nereids he appears does some leaves never hear from again your character yeah. I guess he's like a dream out of somebody's head, the old jewish oracle. That's right there at his death is acute because I don't I I'd- I'd- never met him. I never met Stephen really, never item of job that one day that I saw him across the table. I never met him after that. Did you tellin ya? I sit idly by first work to him. What I said the doktor I said I know you

the years ago. You know, I said I saw you, you were a little guy. You were this little guy across the desk. He said when I said: seventy three, seventy four. He said that was me so after finish this movie air and I do my part. He rachel note descent and hope be fifty more. Yes, we can meet again. That's tony cautionary. Besides thirteen, a one and judd Hirsch's episode, thirteen o three, if you want more oscar talk, get the oscar bonus episode released on the full marin this week and you can also use your full marin subscription to go through the ad free archives, endless, Did the asker stuff we ve done every year to subscribe click on the link in the episode description or go to w g of pod dot com and click on w p, a plus enjoy, the movies has ever sign up go to the movies net. Somebody sign up, who did that

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